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This thread is for discussion about the newly introduced Forge map, Despair, by SecretShnitzel. If you have played this map in Matchmaking or played the original in custom games for which it is intended (Slayer or King of the Hill), please post your feedback here, with as much detail as possible. While everyone is entitled to opinions, we need to understand the reasons behind them in order to be able to address them, so for example:

Bad:
“I don’t like this map.”

Good:
“I don’t like playing SWAT on this map because I feel the map is too congested.”

Your feedback is valuable and will help us implement the necessary changes to the map, as well as improve our selections for future Forge maps that are introduced into Matchmaking. Thank you!

If you found an error, flaw, mistake, or fault in this map, please post about it here:

Community Forge Test Bug Reporting Thread
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I think this map would benefit greatly from some stronger visual markers than just color coding. I found myself getting confused on where I was exactly, even seeing the colors. For example, I could tell I was on blue side, but not WHERE on blue immediately. Perhaps some different block use would help, especially in the doorways and by the lifts.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.


*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
I'm glad that this map got in.
Although I dislike the way it looks (dark, a bit claustrophobic, even confusing sometimes, and...erosion; but you already know that :p), it's still one of the most enjoyable maps in the playlist.
Exactly the kind of maps we were lacking.
Nice job, CCs & 343.
I like the map but Infinity Slayer breaks it. The AAs don't break it (yet)and loadout weapons spawn around the map! but the Personal Ordnance has to go. Other team got Binary Rifles and Incineration Cannon and to add on to that, 2 snipers and a rocket already spawn on the map. If one team gets at least one snipe and rockets. plus the random weapons that you get from PODs, it's almost impossible to come back from that.
Played on KOTH and it just went by way too fast. Had a great team so we shut out the other guys but the match was over in less than 5 minutes. :/
Hi schnitzel, lots of love from saddo!

Too early to comment on the overall gameplay, but I've got to say here and now that placing loadout weapons on the map is a big error in thinking.

My reasoning:

I am not going to select DMR or BR on my loadout choice when I can just grab one off the map. Instead, I'm going to take AR/magnum and swap out the magnum with one of the loadout rifles you've scattered across the map with such gay abandon. Essentially you've given me the firepower perk for free.

My usual loadout has DMR/AR with firepower. On this map I don't need firepower and instead I've taken AR/magnum with ressuply. This allows me to spam my greandes much more freely.

So, ironically, in placing DMR/BR on the map to encourage their use, you've actually encouraged me to grenade spam.

There really is no need to place these weapons on the map. I can understand the logic of doing it on Ragnarok for example, but there is simply no need on a small map like this one. You can easily grab ammo off fallen enemies.

The other thing to bear in mind is that placing weapoins on map benefits people who use those weapons over other weapons. The light rifle user does not get a free stack of ammo, but the DMR user does. The LR user can pick up a DMR as a secondary sure, but he can't get ammo for his prefered choice. This seems very unfair to me.

EDIT: really? The language filter changes g@y abandon to happy abandon?
Kbo000;2193969 wrote:
I'm glad that this map got in.
Although I dislike the way it looks (dark, a bit claustrophobic, even confusing sometimes, and...erosion; but you already know that :p), it's still one of the most enjoyable maps in the playlist.
Exactly the kind of maps we were lacking.
Nice job, CCs & 343.


Sums it up very nicely. Love the design, play wise

gameplay A+

Aesthetics ... I don't even want to give a grade. I just wish this map was forged in a different environment. It's a solid map to play on but just hurts my eyes.
MrSaddo;2194181 wrote:

So, ironically, in placing DMR/BR on the map to encourage their use, you've actually encouraged me to grenade spam.

There really is no need to place these weapons on the map. I can understand the logic of doing it on Ragnarok for example, but there is simply no need on a small map like this one. You can easily grab ammo off fallen enemies.


1) your right, on a small map, no point in putting loadout weapons

2) your wrong about the weapons encouraging nade spam... It's the size of the map that encourages nade spam. As you said, you can pick up weapons from dead bodies.

So if there were no loadout weapons on map, wouldn't you still loadout with AR/magnum and resupply and just take a DMR/BR from a body? So, even with no loadout weapons on the map, your tactic is still a good one.
TimZaRob;2194212 wrote:
MrSaddo;2194181 wrote:

So, ironically, in placing DMR/BR on the map to encourage their use, you've actually encouraged me to grenade spam.

There really is no need to place these weapons on the map. I can understand the logic of doing it on Ragnarok for example, but there is simply no need on a small map like this one. You can easily grab ammo off fallen enemies.


1) your right, on a small map, no point in putting loadout weapons

2) your wrong about the weapons encouraging nade spam... It's the size of the map that encourages nade spam. As you said, you can pick up weapons from dead bodies.

So if there were no loadout weapons on map, wouldn't you still loadout with AR/magnum and resupply and just take a DMR/BR from a body? So, even with no loadout weapons on the map, your tactic is still a good one.


You're right, but weapons on map makes things easier for me. I don't have to kill somebody to get a weapon. I can just pick it up. But yes, I see your point.
Very dull. In KotH, it's almost impossible to get to A location unless you don't get shot. A game of KotH I just had on this had to go to time because no-one could get to the middle.
I played this map and i just dont like it. Its just another jetpack needed map. Getting on top floor is just a pain. Everytime I get this map ill quit. 343 please dont put this map in the 2v2 playlist. I know this person can put a better map than this. If u reading man remake -SELECT- from halo reach team doubles now thats was a great map u made.
I just do not want ordiance on this map. If we have close quarters weapons like shotguns, swords, and hammers, then that would be cool, but rockets just do not work. Too easy to just jetpack and fire the rockets againts walls for splash damage to to the small size. I also wish that it looked better.

Great map ugly color.
Not sure if by design, but in KoTH, the hill on the center pedestal is slightly larger than the cover structure, allowing players to camp behind it and preventing long range fire from all directons except directly behind, or from 5 and 7 o' clock.
Twitter: @iWarhead
Protocol dictates action!
Good

This map was pretty good, it was a little confusing at times, maybe a few more landmark type things to signify where you are? Other then that, the map is very close quarters, and I like doses of that :p erosion pieces are ugly, but hey, what the heck, we can use some variety :)
Initial reaction is that DAMN IT'S UGLY; yet it plays pretty well.

I'd potentially like it much more if it were rebuilt in one of the other two canvas' available.

Halo Reach taught me that no amount of quality Forge map design can fend off the creeping tedium of ugly aesthetics.
Well judging from the fact that I just went 16-10 and got a damn snapshot with the Sniper which is wierd because I suck at no scoping. The map plays very well. I love that all the maps have static weapon spawns and are more balanced then any of the default 4v4 maps on Halo 4. These are the Arena style maps that Halo 4 needs. If we can get more 4v4 maps like this and even some BTB maps that are like this, it'll help the competitive side of Halo 4 a Yoink! ton.
Its a good design, but the color palette needs to be different. Its dark and muddy looking. The map looks flat and its hard to tell where corners are. The map spawns rockets and 2 snipes in the being and with weapon drops there are just way to many power weapons on this map in Slayer.
^ "Muddy" is the best way of putting it, yes. In the heat of battle the colour palette means it can be incredibly tricky to discern where walls end and corridors begin. At worse this issue could be an unintuitive barrier between combatting players; at best it could create a lot of "lucky" death evasion scenarios, which might lead to rage complaints on the forum. Time will tell.

The design itself feels full of potential.
There should probably be more ways for players to move from the lower levels without having to resort to th jetpack. This is especially true from the ground floor at the center of the map.
Twitter: @iWarhead
Protocol dictates action!
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