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This insightful thread will look at why competitive slayer is ruined because of these 3 mechanics: DMR's high rate of fire, not going un-scoped when being shot (now you flinch when your scoped in), and instant respawn.


The DMR is the jack of all trades primary rifle. It's equal in all areas of ranged combat. Yes, we know AR beats BR/DMR/Carb/LR at close range. But the DMR's RoF is way TOO POWERFUL for its accuracy and high clip size compared to the BR.

I used to start out with the BR in Halo 4 because I liked the feel of it, I did well with it in the first few days. Afterwards, I realized people were just staying too far back for the BR to be effective in maps like HAVEN (one of the most balanced, small symmetrical maps for slayer). You would think BR would be an amazing weapon on Haven. Well, everyone uses the DMR so in order to be as effective, you need to use the DMR because shooting across the map is what the DMR excels at and the BR falls flat in. Small slayer maps need to equalize the ranges the rifles provide. If a DMR can do what a BR does at mid range, what about long range sections of the map? In Complex, you need to use a DMR. In Solace, a DMR. In Haven, a DMR. In Adrift/Abandon, a DMR. Long sight ranges are seen in all of these maps which makes a DMR a clear choice for best all-around rifle to use in any situation.

*There is some magic lost in BR battles now. Those intense battles you got in Halo 2 and Halo 3 with the BR?, it doesn't happen here in Halo 4. The kill times are too fast, shields regen too slow, there's instant respawn...etc.

As I said before, when you couple these problems with the DMR's high rate of fire you get EXTREMELY effective short kill times. In addition, a BR can't go against a DMR across the map because of not getting un-scoped when shot at in-scope. There's no more mid range rifle exciting battles. My accuracy has been refined since Halo 1 and I rarely miss a shot and I get 5 shot kills with the DMR so easily it's a joke, and this is un-scoped btw. I have to put more "effort" with the BR because of it's lower clip mag, lower RoF, and it's range handicap to the DMR.

The reason the DMR is so effective is the high rate of fire. It's ridiculous, it destroys the way the map is supposed to be played. Then instant respawn takes it an extra step backward where you get finish a DMR battle, win, and your 1 shot, and the guy respawns and shoots you across the map with sniper rifle accuracy.

There's no competition for better map control. Sprint+instant respawn means no downtime. People are everywhere, shooting you with DMR shots where you end up having to rely on the DMR to be 100% efficient in the metagame.

The team slayer maps play so much better when everyone uses a BR and there's a respawn timer. Now don't get me wrong, the DMR can be used, but its power as of now destroys the way maps are played. I only use the DMR now. I don't like the feel of it, but I use it because I want to be 100% efficient. It's way too hard to pass it over the BR because, again, IT'S RATE OF FIRE.

This beast weapon shoots insanely fast with little bloom and insane accuracy! It even ruins BTB maps like Ragnarok which makes that map "broken" because it's rate of fire is way too high. It's accuracy is fine, but the problems are magnified by it's rate of fire.

I play mainly Team Slayer Pro and I have a 1.93 k/d not that means anything but I do have a positive W/L ratio. You can take these stats as a grain of salt in comparison to my reasoning, but you need to realize there is something MECHANICALLY wrong with this game. However, you may disagree and I respect your opinion. But please, there needs to be acknowledgement by 343i to fix this issue.

Competitive slayer needs to have respawn timers, reduce DMR rate of fire, and bring back un-scoped when shot.
I'll read the rest, but I had to stop when I saw that the kill times were "too fast"....Come on people, you are never going to be satisfied. In Reach it was to slow, and now in Halo 4 it's to fast. I can only imagine what the Halo 2 and 3 forums were like.

The sad thing is it's only a one shot difference between each of the games, so where is the in between with you guys. If you don't like fighting at long range 343 has given you more than enough tools to get up close. Choose another path rather than walking straight up to them or use an armor ability, call on your teammates something other than complain. Exhaust every option before coming in here and making a big deal about it. Look at my k/d and my most used weapon and see for yourself.

The old rules still apply, victory through teamwork, map control, weapon control. They are all still there just in slightly different ways than you've seen from the old games. The only exception is ordinance drops, but that just means call outs and teamwork have been given a boost in importance.
You should take a look at my post about the DMR and how to adjust it without making it pointless.
My earlier Post

I like that you don't un-scope anymore. If you did then that would make the DMR even better and make power weapons like the sniper rifle pointless. Flinching means that even if you get shot you still have a chance of killing the guy shooting at you and vice-versa. It used to be whoever got the first shot would pretty much win regardless. I got to the point where if i got shot first i wouldn't even try to fight the person and i would run away. Now if to guys are DMRing across the map its the guy with the best aim who wins. Not the first shot
I read the rest, I still disagree. It sounds more like you had a bad day and are complaining. Not saying you are a bad kid or anything like that, but the game isn't mechanically broken. It's a faster pace game so strategy needs to be implemented more firmly in your gaming regiment especially if you are playing TSP. Sorry you won't get any sympathy from my as a pistol wielder who pwn's DMR users on the regular. Good luck though.
Quote:
This beast weapon shoots insanely fast with little bloom and insane accuracy! It even ruins BTB maps like Ragnarok which makes that map "broken" because it's rate of fire is way too high. It's accuracy is fine, but the problems are magnified by it's rate of fire.

Blood Gulch was not ruined by Halo CE pistol, and the weapon was A LOT stronger than the DMR.

If anything the BR should be buffed (to 4sk) instead of DMR being nerfed.

The kill times in this game are already too slow.

I do agree that instant-respawn is dumb. It's is dumb in COD and it is even dumber in Halo.

Halo CE > All.
IX The Ruin;1788690 wrote:
I'll read the rest, but I had to stop when I saw that the kill times were "too fast"....Come on people, you are never going to be satisfied. In Reach it was to slow, and now in Halo 4 it's to fast. I can only imagine what the Halo 2 and 3 forums were like.

The sad thing is it's only a one shot difference between each of the games, so where is the in between with you guys. If you don't like fighting at long range 343 has given you more than enough tools to get up close. Choose another path rather than walking straight up to them or use an armor ability, call on your teammates something other than complain. Exhaust every option before coming in here and making a big deal about it. Look at my k/d and my most used weapon and see for yourself.

The old rules still apply, victory through teamwork, map control, weapon control. They are all still there just in slightly different ways than you've seen from the old games. The only exception is ordinance drops, but that just means call outs and teamwork have been given a boost in importance.


It DOES kill too fast. The DMR already was a powerful starter weapon in Reach, but now it's even worse. The only moment when I'll be truly satisfied is once that thing is nerfed to the range it's supposed to dominate at: mid-long, not close-extremely long.

And that's just -Yoink!-! The old rules are thrown into a shredder with this game. Teamwork may still apply, but there is absolutely no form of map or weapon control with ordinance and weapon drops. You're either lucky enough to get a binary rifle or you're screwed and you get a concussion rifle (I find that thing useless). Just try controlling a map when everyone is armed to the teeth with snipers and rockets.
This discussion is aimed at competitive play. We know that MLG rules won't include ordnance drops. They already have set weapon spawns. The problem is the RoF of the DMR coupled with instant respawn makes weapon battles stale in small maps where the BR should be used and make for more balanced gun play and overall team play.
I like the BR as well, but the DMR is just too much of an all utility weapon at all ranges and a phenomenal ROF. It's hard not to use it or the LR. Also, the instant re-spawns... that probably should be nixed, but shorten the delay to maybe 3 seconds in stead of 5 seconds.
revitup360;1788699 wrote:
You should take a look at my post about the DMR and how to adjust it without making it pointless.
My earlier Post

I like that you don't un-scope anymore. If you did then that would make the DMR even better and make power weapons like the sniper rifle pointless. Flinching means that even if you get shot you still have a chance of killing the guy shooting at you and vice-versa. It used to be whoever got the first shot would pretty much win regardless. I got to the point where if i got shot first i wouldn't even try to fight the person and i would run away. Now if to guys are DMRing across the map its the guy with the best aim who wins. Not the first shot


Flinching is firstly supposed to be a specialization mod as it should be. Flinching does mean the guy with the first shot wins, because you can't shoot back to disorient them anymore so you could take cover and try to attack back, because the guy wins because the flinching doesn't make him miss mostly.
I personally hate flinching. I can't reaim or something I just get too disoriented when that happens. I have to manually un-scope to get to react. The automatic un-scope also felt alot more natural.
The only problem I have with the DMR is that the reticle goes upwards while being shot and shooting at the same time.
The DMR has been proven to kill faster than the BR at all ranges, which wasn't intended by 343i. They need to reduce the rate of fire or increase recoil on it because 343 clearly said before the game came out that the BR will beat the DMR at close range, which is not true in-game.
MASTER MENACE;1788611 wrote:
This insightful thread will look at why competitive slayer is ruined because of these 3 mechanics: DMR's high rate of fire, not going un-scoped when being shot (now you flinch when your scoped in), and instant respawn.


The DMR is the jack of all trades primary rifle. It's equal in all areas of ranged combat. Yes, we know AR beats BR/DMR/Carb/LR at close range. But the DMR's RoF is way TOO POWERFUL for its accuracy and high clip size compared to the BR.

I used to start out with the BR in Halo 4 because I liked the feel of it, I did well with it in the first few days. Afterwards, I realized people were just staying too far back for the BR to be effective in maps like HAVEN (one of the most balanced, small symmetrical maps for slayer). You would think BR would be an amazing weapon on Haven. Well, everyone uses the DMR so in order to be as effective, you need to use the DMR because shooting across the map is what the DMR excels at and the BR falls flat in. Small slayer maps need to equalize the ranges the rifles provide. If a DMR can do what a BR does at mid range, what about long range sections of the map? In Complex, you need to use a DMR. In Solace, a DMR. In Haven, a DMR. In Adrift/Abandon, a DMR. Long sight ranges are seen in all of these maps which makes a DMR a clear choice for best all-around rifle to use in any situation.

*There is some magic lost in BR battles now. Those intense battles you got in Halo 2 and Halo 3 with the BR?, it doesn't happen here in Halo 4. The kill times are too fast, shields regen too slow, there's instant respawn...etc.

As I said before, when you couple these problems with the DMR's high rate of fire you get EXTREMELY effective short kill times. In addition, a BR can't go against a DMR across the map because of not getting un-scoped when shot at in-scope. There's no more mid range rifle exciting battles. My accuracy has been refined since Halo 1 and I rarely miss a shot and I get 5 shot kills with the DMR so easily it's a joke, and this is un-scoped btw. I have to put more "effort" with the BR because of it's lower clip mag, lower RoF, and it's range handicap to the DMR.

The reason the DMR is so effective is the high rate of fire. It's ridiculous, it destroys the way the map is supposed to be played. Then instant respawn takes it an extra step backward where you get finish a DMR battle, win, and your 1 shot, and the guy respawns and shoots you across the map with sniper rifle accuracy.

There's no competition for better map control. Sprint+instant respawn means no downtime. People are everywhere, shooting you with DMR shots where you end up having to rely on the DMR to be 100% efficient in the metagame.

The team slayer maps play so much better when everyone uses a BR and there's a respawn timer. Now don't get me wrong, the DMR can be used, but its power as of now destroys the way maps are played. I only use the DMR now. I don't like the feel of it, but I use it because I want to be 100% efficient. It's way too hard to pass it over the BR because, again, IT'S RATE OF FIRE.

This beast weapon shoots insanely fast with little bloom and insane accuracy! It even ruins BTB maps like Ragnarok which makes that map "broken" because it's rate of fire is way too high. It's accuracy is fine, but the problems are magnified by it's rate of fire.

I play mainly Team Slayer Pro and I have a 1.93 k/d not that means anything but I do have a positive W/L ratio. You can take these stats as a grain of salt in comparison to my reasoning, but you need to realize there is something MECHANICALLY wrong with this game. However, you may disagree and I respect your opinion. But please, there needs to be acknowledgement by 343i to fix this issue.

Competitive slayer needs to have respawn timers, reduce DMR rate of fire, and bring back un-scoped when shot.


yup
dmr definatly needs a nerf.
7-10% more bloom, and .13 sec longer kill timer and it would be more balanced comepared to other guns.
i agree 100% dude. 1 on 1 the kill times are almost perfect. But it feels like when youre team shot you drop like a fly even quicker than reach

get RID of the stupid flinch mechanic i swear. I thought it was such a good idea because it would speed up gameplay. now i feel like its a really bad idea. maybe cause i suck at controlling it...but when you have the worst luck of getting double teamed at all ranges like I do its a big deal -_-