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>EDIT< MONITOR MOVED THREAD TO MATCHMAKING (A LESS POPULATED SECTION WITH MUCH LESS DISCUSSION INVOLVED) WITHOUT ANY REASON/CLARIFICATION WHY. NOTE THAT IT STATES "DISCUSS ALL THINGS HALO 4" UNDER THE HALO 4 FORUM TOPIC"
>EDIT2< I Attempted to appeal to move it back. My appeal = Under the Halo 4 topic it states "Discuss all things Halo 4." For this reason my thread shouldn't have been forced into the matchmaking topic. If anything it should have been optimal. In addition the thread was in place for over a month now. Their are no rules regarding that you cannot have matchmaking threads in the Halo 4 topic. The monitor that moved the post stated it was for organization purposes. Well this is not a real or official reason to reject moving it back when I asked because their are no rules to justify it. I don't mind them moving threads to the best location but if I ask to move it back and their aren't any rules against it then thats not fair. A question that justifies this topic is "What would the thread have to include to get moved to the Halo 4 topic"
Appeal got rejected quote - "Ranks are a Matchmaking-only feature, and the topic fits in Matchmaking as per the guidelines in the sticky I linked you to."Guidelines
>EDIT3< 1/23/13 - It is confirmed that CSR will ONLY be visible on Halo waypoint and expected to launch in April Source. In addition bs angel's reason to why CSR is not visible in game is "We are focused on creating a seamless companion for pro and expert players without making a highly visible attractive nuisance for casual abusers and cheats." Source


ATTENTION COMMUNITY 343's ANNOUNCEMENT IS A FINELY FAILED HALFLY DONE ATTEMPT TO APPEASE THE COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY.This 1-50 343 promised us is ONLY web based. Basically only seen on Halo waypoint. This is the same thing they did in Reach which didn't solve anything. Their will NEVER be a number 1-50 to show your skill in game. THIS WILL ONLY BE SEEN ON HALO WAYPOINT. This will NOT CHANGE unless we FIGHT for a FULL SKILLED ranking system.

This needs to EFFECT IN GAME RANK like Halo 3 for players to have an Incentive to go for high skill otherwise people will just get maxed rank with XP. Bungie perfectly created a max xp limit on each separate rank requiring them to go for high skill.

Thanks and Favorites of this thread are very appreciated
IMPORTANT- Tweet this to @Kevin_Franklin the lead designer of multiplayer, @Bsangel and @BravoMLG. Tell them why this is important and link this thread. Retweet every day. The more people who do this the better. Be polite while spreading this.

Moderators Posts - First post, Page 79, Page 82
343 Industries Response - N/A
Current Thread Views - 113,000
Best posts - Page 51, by Tk Curb Stompz/Page 59, by SpezL Ops

Videos
To 343 industries
Video Summary
Requirements for Ranked/Social Playlists
H4 Necessary Patches
Saucey

I was very happy and impressed by 343 Industries until I read the Announcement source carefully. 343i was very vague about this intentionally to fool the competitive community, What a lowball deceptive attempt.
Source

TO 343 Industries:
Why are you against a with a full skilled ranking system? Nothing is perfect which must be the reason you don't want to implement it into the game but EXACTLY explains the effect of having it in game with more players having incentive to play. I assure you its better than what it is now and what it was before. Their is more good in having it implemented in game than their is negative. This is the reason Halo 3 / 2 Lasted so long. People wanted to win, they were motivated, the reason everyone had their microphones in. Remember a game ending and saying good game or getting messages. This doesn't happen in Halo 4. Im truthfully saying that this was the best system and I didn't even achieve a 50! Read all of the responses to this thread, barely anyone disagrees and this is just a small portion that are active on the forums. And the people that do disagree have no valid persuasive points that couldn't be solved, with the solutions included in this thread. 343i, I know Microsoft told you to make the game like call of duty to make it more popular, adding this will, the progression system does NOT flow with Halo it never will. But note if this is added their is still much more you need to improve. I will not list them in this simply because this is a specific thread but a video above will. The most important aspect is that you need to communicate with you're fan base. Their are so many popular threads including one that broke a record on halo waypoint, but you have yet to respond to them. This is not Halo's formula, I waited through Halo Reach for a Ranking system TU, It never came. Will it be the same for Halo 4?

Halo is a team game. The goal should be to win, NOT to be Independent.

To the Casual player community ( People who don't mind or care)
What some of you fail to realize is that the competitive community will keep the game alive. They will play the game long after the release date. I mean, just look at Halo 2 for an example. The only way you could get them off that was by shutting down the XBL compatibility for it. And even though that's gone, I bet people still have Halo 2 LAN parties. Heck, people still have Halo Combat Evolved LAN parties. The point I'm trying to make is that if you satisfy the competitive players then you'll have a long lasting game. Both sets of players are important, and both can be pleased.

Response to the Boosting/Cheating Issue
343i switches the trueskill system with a progression system. The one we have in Halo 4 actually allows us to unlock better weapons and equipment. There is a much higher incentive to cheat. And what happens to cheaters? They're rewarded with all this nice stuff that nobody else has access to. They'll play a few games feeling like a boss and then get banned. But such great ownage on their behalf will cause them to want to circumvent justice to be able to do it all again. I would take booster for a full skill ranking system any day and the majority agree with me. Boosting has been a bigger issue in Halo 4 than any other Halo game.

Account Selling Solution- Integrating ranks into HD
I agree that the CSR system running behind the scenes on Waypoint is a slap in the face to the competitive community.

But don't rant like that or people will just disregard your post completely.
Don't really understand why 343 are so against in game ranking, it's as if they want a "non competitive" environment so nobody gets their feelings hurt for not being ranked as good as other players. The whole world is slowly becoming a Non competative place..
Yeah I agree totally with what you say. 343 have done a great job with Halo 4 but it seems odd to me that they haven't realized the reason for the popularity of the original Halo multiplayer was the 1-50 system. Halo 2 had it, Halo 3 had it, Halo 2 and 3 lasted for years. Reach didn't have it and people lost interest much more quickly. So by putting it on the Waypoint website and app only, it effectively becomes a new BPR system. It HAS to be in game for it to work whatsoever.
343i aren't going to change it, deal with it.
It's too harsh for newer, nooby players. They're appealing to casual gamers, resulting in a higher profit.

Just take a look at all the features in Halo 4 that are noob-friendly like easier and faster levelling, larger hit boxes and faster kills.

It's clear they're just after a wider audience and don't care about the competitive community, just take a look at what they've taken from CoD:

Custom loadouts
Tactical Package and Support Upgrade (Perks)
SitRec (Killcam)
Hitmarkers
Progression System
Spartan Points (COD points)
Spartan Ops (Special Ops)
Instant respawn
Weapon Skins
Commendations (Challenges)

I wonder why they're doing this? Oh yeah, because CoD's formula is popular and they have a large fanbase.
Halo 4 is Microsoft's attempt to beat CoD...

Microsoft and 343 Indu$tries
Wrigiam;1702825 wrote:
Yeah I agree totally with what you say. 343 have done a great job with Halo 4 but it seems odd to me that they haven't realized the reason for the popularity of the original Halo multiplayer was the 1-50 system. Halo 2 had it, Halo 3 had it, Halo 2 and 3 lasted for years. Reach didn't have it and people lost interest much more quickly. So by putting it on the Waypoint website and app only, it effectively becomes a new BPR system. It HAS to be in game for it to work whatsoever.


They don't want it to work like before, they only implemented it on Waypoint to stop people complaining, and hey, it worked,

Read my previous post to see why they don't want it back.
No, I think it's because 343 doesn't want to have to manage a ranking system.

If a number is too harsh for players to handle, they should stick to other games like Super Monkey Ball, or Barney's Playhouse.
IMO the dichotomy of ranked and social is crucial for the life span of the game, whether ranks are only shown on waypoint or not, we need playlsits with tight trueskill and playlists with loose trueskill. I can assure you having only tight true skill playlists is going to raise a lot of complaints once people start getting settled into their true skill level.

Sometimes people want to mess around, sometimes people want to play with friends of different skill levels; Having every game matched so that you have to try your hardest is just not something most players want. Do we want it the availability to have a playlist where we can try our hardest? Yes. But having to try your hardest all the time is just exhausting for many players, including myself. Especially those of us who primarily play with friends who are of different skill than us. I have 2 friends who are far less skilled than I, and now that am progressing through the true skill ranks, they both go negative every game and we lose. It's not fun for either of us.

I would love an in game ranking system, but IMO tight true skill and loose true skill playlists is more important than that.
xM ii L kM4N;1702827 wrote:
343i aren't going to change it, deal with it.
It's too harsh for newer, nooby players. They're appealing to casual gamers, resulting in a higher profit.

Just take a look at all the features in Halo 4 that are noob-friendly like easier and faster levelling, larger hit boxes and faster kills.

It's clear they're just after a wider audience and don't care about the competitive community, just take a look at what they've taken from CoD:

Custom loadouts
Tactical Package and Support Upgrade (Perks)
SitRec (Killcam)
Hitmarkers
Progression System
Spartan Points (COD points)
Spartan Ops (Special Ops)
Instant respawn
Weapon Skins
Commendations (Challenges)

I wonder why they're doing this? Oh yeah, because CoD's formula is popular and they have a large fanbase.
Halo 4 is Microsoft's attempt to beat CoD...

Microsoft and 343 Indu$tries

I don't like to think it, but this..

I'm beginning to think that Bungie left because Microsoft wanted them to casualize there beloved franchise, and they really didn't want to :(
King Leonighdus;1702883 wrote:
No, I think it's because 343 doesn't want to have to manage a ranking system.

If a number is too harsh for players to handle, they should stick to other games like Super Monkey Ball, or Barney's Playhouse.

Damn right!
You guys act like there are no downsides to showing the rank. They've done it before and it brought horrible externalities. It gave people incentive to cheat/mod (Do you guys remember standby?) People would stat boost, and manipulate the system in order to get a number next to their name and to "prove" that they were good.

This is a fair compromise. It shows you how you compare to others, but there won't be as much cheaters and buyers willing to do so, in order to get the number on waypoint

the only downside to this is so that people can't Yoink themselves while starring at the elite high rankers.
Thanks for all the posts I'm reading them all.
Click "menu" and then "edit"

The "menu" button should be just below your post
DS xHunterZx SD;1702896 wrote:
xM ii L kM4N;1702827 wrote:
343i aren't going to change it, deal with it.
It's too harsh for newer, nooby players. They're appealing to casual gamers, resulting in a higher profit.

Just take a look at all the features in Halo 4 that are noob-friendly like easier and faster levelling, larger hit boxes and faster kills.

It's clear they're just after a wider audience and don't care about the competitive community, just take a look at what they've taken from CoD:

Custom loadouts
Tactical Package and Support Upgrade (Perks)
SitRec (Killcam)
Hitmarkers
Progression System
Spartan Points (COD points)
Spartan Ops (Special Ops)
Instant respawn
Weapon Skins
Commendations (Challenges)

I wonder why they're doing this? Oh yeah, because CoD's formula is popular and they have a large fanbase.
Halo 4 is Microsoft's attempt to beat CoD...

Microsoft and 343 Indu$tries

I don't like to think it, but this..

I'm beginning to think that Bungie left because Microsoft wanted them to casualize there beloved franchise, and they really didn't want to :(


I strongly disagree. 343 has been more involved in MLG and the competitive community than Bungie ever was. the whole CoD issue is similar to Apple. CoD figured out a great way to do things, and in many aspects it truly is the best way to do it that anyone has found so far, the same as Apple. They aren't copying Apple to be like Apple, they are copying Apple because Apple has great ideas.

It would take too long to individually refute every single point where 343 "copied" CoD, but I can assure you, at it's core, Halo 4 has a lot of potential to be a highly competitive game and 343 is the more involved in the competitive scene than Bungie ever was. But remember that they have to take into account the desires of the entire fan base, not just those who are good at the game. Although, don't forget that we have months to make our voice heard in regards to this CSR, and if we make enough good arguments, 343 may give us what we want.
Gold Jacobson;1702945 wrote:
You guys act like there are no downsides to showing the rank. They've done it before and it brought horrible externalities. It gave people incentive to cheat/mod (Do you guys remember standby?) People would stat boost, and manipulate the system in order to get a number next to their name and to "prove" that they were good.

This is a fair compromise. It shows you how you compare to others, but there won't be as much cheaters and buyers willing to do so, in order to get the number on waypoint

the only downside to this is so that people can't Yoink themselves while starring at the elite high rankers.


Well, a lot of people... like me play the game solely to get the highest competitive rank. If Halo 4 doesn't change it to in game I will just quit Halo for good, I buy Halo to play Halo... not a Casual Sci-Fi CoD.

And people are going to cheat regardless, and it would just be boosting ranks like in CoD instead of getting a Truskill higher.

I agree 100% with you OP, I will bump as much as I can.
Great thread, I was surprised at many of the negative comments i got on my video (the one linked in the OP). It seems most of the people who are opposed to the 1-50 system had bad experiences on Halo 2 or 3 with the difficulty of ranking up and prefer a system that lets everyone reach max rank if they play enough. I disagree with this, because it provides no incentive to get better or any reason to play after you have unlocked everything. There is no logical argument against having a 1-50 system in ranked playlists and a social section for those who dont want to play ranked games. Hopefully 343 will realize this or I fear public matchmaking in Halo 4 will die a death similar to reach's.
Gold Jacobson;1702945 wrote:
You guys act like there are no downsides to showing the rank. They've done it before and it brought horrible externalities. It gave people incentive to cheat/mod (Do you guys remember standby?) People would stat boost, and manipulate the system in order to get a number next to their name and to "prove" that they were good.

This is a fair compromise. It shows you how you compare to others, but there won't be as much cheaters and buyers willing to do so, in order to get the number on waypoint

the only downside to this is so that people can't Yoink themselves while starring at the elite high rankers.



Hey Gold Jacobson, I agree with you on your points I could right a lot about it but ill try to keep it short. Their were cheaters and hackers, But keep in mind Halo 3 was created in 2007. One of the first, best and most POPULAR first person shooters at the time, made by Microsoft and got advantages like best graphics ect. Also this was a long time ago. Their will always be hackers, cheaters in any game. Now keep in mind that They patched the game at the time and it was fine. Problem is solved but I also want to mention that call of duty has MUCH more hackers, modders. MW2 people abused Jtags and still do and the Call of duty franchise is if not the biggest and most popular games, and if you play previuse cods multyplayer you will run into modders and hackers. If you play halo 3 now you will NOT run into those problems.
It needs to be in game, period.

That's not mentioning what good or bad modifications 343i will be making to the 1-50-like system that will soon be known as CSR. My guess is that, considering they're pushing their efforts to keep people from manipulating the system, which in turn will sacrifice fun for security, they will be mostly bad changes.

I would also like CSR to tie into some type of global rank, whether it be the current Spartan Rank and Specializations, or a new ranking system similar to Halo 3.

I am pleased that the ranking system will be a rank that matches players according to that rank, because things like Arena didn't have that. Arena was just a label, a very dull one at that.

Let's hope 343i places the rank in-game in the future, despite the rank not even making an appearance anywhere until next year.
I would take cheaters/hackers/boosters/derankers/etc any day in order to play a ranked playlist again. What I don't get is the people who use that as an argument against ranked playlists. YOU DONT HAVE TO PLAY IT! Play the current playlists if you don't like it.

Another thing to remember is detecting cheaters has only improved over the years. In Halo 2 I got matched up against modders and derankers fairly often (derankers about 5 times a week and modders about once a month) and in Halo 3 I never ran into them. I mean never.

The only problem for ranked playlists I see is the current settings. They will have to get rid of JiP, killcam, AAs, loadouts, insta-spawn and make weapon spawns (now) classic style.
Disflex;1703222 wrote:
It needs to be in game, period.

That's not mentioning what good or bad modifications 343i will be making to the 1-50-like system that will soon be known as CSR. My guess is that, considering they're pushing their efforts to keep people from manipulating the system, which in turn will sacrifice fun for security, they will be mostly bad changes.

I would also like CSR to tie into some type of global rank, whether it be the current Spartan Rank and Specializations, or a new ranking system similar to Halo 3.

I am pleased that the ranking system will be a rank that matches players according to that rank, because things like Arena didn't have that. Arena was just a label, a very dull one at that.

Let's hope 343i places the rank in-game in the future, despite the rank not even making an appearance anywhere until next year.




With the gaming technology they can easily avoid it. For example how did Call of Duty get rid of boosting? So simple, they added in game report option, They even did an offensive emblem report option on Black ops. Its simple to fix if it happens, or might be another reason if not they are being lazy. In Halo 3 Xp boosters got caught within the next day! Idk how they did it but they did...
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