Your own vision again 343?

Games Halo Infinite
1

The more often i watch the campaign demo, the more I’m disappointed. It feels like 343 doesn’t know what direction Halo should be. The first time i saw it i was happy.
But after watching it 10 times it feels like it is wrong for both sides, the classic halo fans and the Reach/H4/H5 fans.

You give the classic fan base a classic art style. The others get climb, sprint and hit markers for everything ( including warthog ) but without thrusters.

This will disappoint both sides. It seems like there is no one at 343 who knows what Halo should really be. A hybrid of Apex/Cod with Sci-fi setting and Master Chief or Halo? You will again lose many fans.

We haven’t seen the multiplayer yet and it’s possible that you have classic playlists and your vision playlists, but this will split the community. Surely there will be many gamers who enjoy your game and i’ll play it too, but how long?

I’m really hoping this is just my opinion and Halo will be great again with millions of people playing it all day and night for years and legendary E-Sports matches watched by millions!

I wish you all the best, stay healthy.

2

The community was split a long time ago, and there’s really no way to reconcile the two without creating two entirely separate games, which won’t happen. I’ve seen the demo a few times now and I’m still pretty happy with it. There were things I really wasn’t happy to see as a classic Halo fan, but I was prepared to compromise. The demo looked like a mashup of just about every Halo game that came before it, with some brand new things to spice it up a bit. We got the open spaces of CE, the enemy variety of H2, the equipment of H3, the advanced movements of Reach/H4/H5, and a little isolation and a tacmap from ODST. On top of that, we got a bunch of new things to dissect and discover.

I really can’t see how 343 could have done better from a crowd pleasing perspective. They touched on virtually everything while trying to create a game that was still theirs and not just a facsimile of Bungie. The only real issue I had was the graphics. And tbh, as I’ve said on here, I was actually okay with the graphics. I like the stylized and simplistic look I remembered from my youth. But if they want to delay the game and make it look more polished and professional, then I’m good with that too.

“A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.” - Miyamoto

3

> 2533274821699753;1:
> The more often i watch the campaign demo, the more I’m disappointed. It feels like 343 doesn’t know what direction Halo should be. The first time i saw it i was happy.
> But after watching it 10 times it feels like it is wrong for both sides, the classic halo fans and the Reach/H4/H5 fans.

Reach is certainly the weird middle child, either pure classic nor modern. However I also have to say that it was meant as a prequel and spin-off to the main game. You’re not supposed to feel as powerful as MC, AA are a direct evolution to equipment and how the modern features are implemented is in such a modular fashion it just screams Halo to me. Even weapon balancing seems to work best without sprint, so what’s more classic than that?

I really think the main issues of Reach have to do with slow strafing, bloom and loadouts more than anything. Reason why it weirds me out when I see Reach put in the same category of H4 and 5 when mechanically and artistically it clearly doesn’t belong there at all (at least imho). At the same time I can’t say it truly belongs to the classic listing either.

One thing is certain to me though - most Reach fans are not in the category of the H4/5 crowd. I can only base that on WP, YT and some Italian forums though, but I had enough discussions here to know that’s better not to mix those two fanbases! :sweat_smile:

> 2533274821699753;1:
> You give the classic fan base a classic art style. The others get climb, sprint and hit markers for everything ( including warthog ) but without thrusters.
>
> This will disappoint both sides. It seems like there is no one at 343 who knows what Halo should really be. A hybrid of Apex/Cod with Sci-fi setting and Master Chief or Halo? You will again lose many fans.

Here is were I agree again, this weird middle road between H3 and 5 is exactly what I - like many others - are afraid of. For who is this game exactly? Am I going to enjoy this more than the previous two 343i games? Most probably yes, but never as much as the classics that I still play to this day! On the other side the H5 fans are going to be disappointed by the cuts in speed and mechanical mobility - even though the most important elements are still present: sprint, climb, side dashing and sliding are confirmed by the trailer after all!

> 2533274821699753;1:
> We haven’t seen the multiplayer yet and it’s possible that you have classic playlists and your vision playlists, but this will split the community. Surely there will be many gamers who enjoy your game and i’ll play it too, but how long?

I doubt two playlists are possible in first place. Weapon balancing is heavily impacted by movement mechanics. You can’t just take a H4-esk gameplay, cut sprint from it and hope it works. One or the other will suffer and can’t be more than a casual for fun mode that you play in between matches.

4

> 2535435902217648;2:
> The community was split a long time ago, and there’s really no way to reconcile the two without creating two entirely separate games, which won’t happen. I’ve seen the demo a few times now and I’m still pretty happy with it. There were things I really wasn’t happy to see as a classic Halo fan, but I was prepared to compromise. The demo looked like a mashup of just about every Halo game that came before it, with some brand new things to spice it up a bit. We got the open spaces of CE, the enemy variety of H2, the equipment of H3, the advanced movements of Reach/H4/H5, and a little isolation and a tacmap from ODST. On top of that, we got a bunch of new things to dissect and discover.
>
> I really can’t see how 343 could have done better from a crowd pleasing perspective. They touched on virtually everything while trying to create a game that was still theirs and not just a facsimile of Bungie. The only real issue I had was the graphics. And tbh, as I’ve said on here, I was actually okay with the graphics. I like the stylized and simplistic look I remembered from my youth. But if they want to delay the game and make it look more polished and professional, then I’m good with that too.
>
> “A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.” - Miyamoto

> 2533274795098161;3:
> > 2533274821699753;1:
> > The more often i watch the campaign demo, the more I’m disappointed. It feels like 343 doesn’t know what direction Halo should be. The first time i saw it i was happy.
> > But after watching it 10 times it feels like it is wrong for both sides, the classic halo fans and the Reach/H4/H5 fans.
>
> Recht is certainly the weird middle child, either poor classic nor modern. However I also have to say that it was meant as a prequel and spin-off to the main game. You’re not supposed to feel as powerful as MC, AA are a direct evolution to equipments and how the modern features are implemented is in such a modular fashion it just screams Halo to me. Even weapon balancing seems to work best without sprint, so what’s more classic than that?
>
> I really think the main issues of Reach have to do with slow strafing, bloom and loadouts more than anything. Reason why it weirds me out when I see Reach put in the same category of H4 and 5 when mechanically and artistically it clearly doesn’t belong there at all (at least imho). At the same time I can’t say it truly belongs to the classic listing either.
>
> One thing is certain to me though - most Reach fans are not in the category of the H4/5 crowd. I can only base that on WP, YT and some Italian forums though, but I had enough discussions here to know that’s better not to mix those two fanbases! :sweat_smile:
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821699753;1:
> > You give the classic fan base a classic art style. The others get climb, sprint and hit markers for everything ( including warthog ) but without thrusters.
> >
> > This will disappoint both sides. It seems like there is no one at 343 who knows what Halo should really be. A hybrid of Apex/Cod with Sci-fi setting and Master Chief or Halo? You will again lose many fans.
>
> Here is were I agree again, this weird middle road between H3 and 5 is exactly what I - like many others - are afraid of. For who is this game exactly? Am I going to enjoy this more than the previous two 343i games? Most probably yes, but never as much as the classics that I still play to this day! On the other side the H5 fans are going to be disappointed by the cuts in speed and mechanical mobility - even though the most important elements are still present: sprint, climb, side dashing and sliding are confirmed by the trailer after all!
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274821699753;1:
> > We haven’t seen the multiplayer yet and it’s possible that you have classic playlists and your vision playlists, but this will split the community. Surely there will be many gamers who enjoy your game and i’ll play it too, but how long?
>
> I doubt two aylists are possible in first place. Weapon balancing is heavily impacted by movement mechanics. You can’t just take a H4-esk gameplay, cut sprint from it and hope it works. One or the other will suffer and can’t be more than a casual for fun mode that you play in between matches.

Sorry to the Reach guys, i didn’t want to put you in the same category as H4/5. I did it because of sprint and bloom.
My concern is, is a H4 playstyle game with advanced movement, ( i couldn’t find a side dash in the trailer ), new boring weapons, op shield equipment, hopefully good maps and classic look enough to get more players from other games to Halo and keep them?
Is this middle way interesting enough for E-Sports? H5 has a very high skill level and is really nice to watch in HCS because of the thrusters and the movement the thrusters enable.
H2/3 is even more enjoyable to watch because it’s all about positioning, br/snipe skill and perfect team play.
In Infinite there is too much movement to be like Halo 3 und too less for H5. With the extreme aim assist of H4/5 and less movement it is probably boring. I’m happy if 343 nailed it and I’m wrong with my concerns but from what I’ve seen so far I’ve to be worried.

5

These types of discussions typically boil down to reductionist lambasting of other people’s different tastes and opinions, so something important to keep in mind is that nobody likes something “for no reason,” and that fans of 343i’s vision to date in Halo 4-5 aren’t “wrong,” necessarily. Just because many of us longtime fans don’t prefer the direction these games have taken the series and the industry as a whole hasn’t responded as commercially well to them doesn’t mean people who enjoy them don’t have their reasons.

That all being said, Infinite doesn’t look to be following the precise vision of 4-5 to me. It also doesn’t look like it’s directly aping on the Bungie games. To me, it appears to be taking certain elements of both and a lot of new direction as well. I’m not sure I’ll like it, but I honestly can’t say it looks like “more of the same,” of the stuff I didn’t like from Halo 4-5. In any event, and as others have alluded to, bridging the divide between the most polarized Classic/Nu Halo fanboys is a foolish and likely impossible goal. In any massive online argument, there are large segments of trolls and willful contrarians who just won’t change their minds on principal.

Bottom line, Infinite looks like a new direction for the series, in correlation with the broad messaging around the game in general, and I think in order for us to be fair we’ll all have to wait and see how it ends up going with the final release before we throw around too many superlatives about it. One thing’s for sure as far as I can tell: it’s not trying to directly cater to either the classic or nu Halo crowd specifically. I think it’s going to do its best to just be a great, broadly accessible experience that stands well with its own identity for the series. Here’s hoping they can pull that off.

6

Infinite looks like it’s walking in between Halos1-3 and Halos4-5. Moving forward there will not be 2 camps, but 3. You’ll either like old, new or new new Halo. If you hate one camp, go back and play your faves. Here’s hoping that MCC will be available for that free-upgrade thing to SeriesX so people can continue to play whichever game they want to.

7

> 2533274821699753;1:
> The more often i watch the campaign demo, the more I’m disappointed. It feels like 343 doesn’t know what direction Halo should be. The first time i saw it i was happy.
> But after watching it 10 times it feels like it is wrong for both sides, the classic halo fans and the Reach/H4/H5 fans.
>
> You give the classic fan base a classic art style. The others get climb, sprint and hit markers for everything ( including warthog ) but without thrusters.
>
> This will disappoint both sides. It seems like there is no one at 343 who knows what Halo should really be. A hybrid of Apex/Cod with Sci-fi setting and Master Chief or Halo? You will again lose many fans.
>
> We haven’t seen the multiplayer yet and it’s possible that you have classic playlists and your vision playlists, but this will split the community. Surely there will be many gamers who enjoy your game and i’ll play it too, but how long?
>
> I’m really hoping this is just my opinion and Halo will be great again with millions of people playing it all day and night for years and legendary E-Sports matches watched by millions!
>
> I wish you all the best, stay healthy.

I think it has the potential to alienate both classic and modern fans. If 343 was more like The Coalition and we didn’t have drastic shakeups of what Halo is in their games, and instead sensible evolutions, we wouldn’t be so divided in the first place. Unfortunately that is not the reality we live in.

8

> 2535436799512395;7:
> > 2533274821699753;1:
> > The more often i watch the campaign demo, the more I’m disappointed. It feels like 343 doesn’t know what direction Halo should be. The first time i saw it i was happy.
> > But after watching it 10 times it feels like it is wrong for both sides, the classic halo fans and the Reach/H4/H5 fans.
> >
> > You give the classic fan base a classic art style. The others get climb, sprint and hit markers for everything ( including warthog ) but without thrusters.
> >
> > This will disappoint both sides. It seems like there is no one at 343 who knows what Halo should really be. A hybrid of Apex/Cod with Sci-fi setting and Master Chief or Halo? You will again lose many fans.
> >
> > We haven’t seen the multiplayer yet and it’s possible that you have classic playlists and your vision playlists, but this will split the community. Surely there will be many gamers who enjoy your game and i’ll play it too, but how long?
> >
> > I’m really hoping this is just my opinion and Halo will be great again with millions of people playing it all day and night for years and legendary E-Sports matches watched by millions!
> >
> > I wish you all the best, stay healthy.
>
> I think it has the potential to alienate both classic and modern fans. If 343 was more like The Coalition and we didn’t have drastic shakeups of what Halo is in their games, and instead sensible evolutions, we wouldn’t be so divided in the first place. Unfortunately that is not the reality we live in.

It’s ironic really, 343 have made these changes to make Halo appeal to a ‘wider’ audience but in that process they have alienated a lot of the older Halo fans, I can not count the number of times I have spoken to people about Halo Infinite and I get the same canned ‘343 ruined / killed Halo’. So far apart from the open spaces I am really struggling to see how this Halo is a love letter to Halo fans and is taking inspiration from Halo CE.

9

> 2533274883108544;8:
> I am really struggling to see how this Halo is […] taking inspiration from Halo CE.

It isn’t. They’re just saying it, for the sake of nostalgia bait.
Same way they did with Halo 4. Remember? How 343 said Halo 4 were based on CE and would feel and play like that?
In fact, was there ever a (mainline) 343 Halo game where they didn’t claim to go “back to the roots”? Because I’m fairly sure they said the same thing about H5G.

10

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

People saying “Oh Classic Halo come back!” I would LOVE to see Classic Halo come back and try to exist in the landscape today. The content that Bungie was making would NEVER fly in gaming today and you have to adapt and overcome the fact that like… you can’t even sprint bro, I’d love to see it try and make a comeback.

11

> 2535426777350592;10:
>

Doom doesn’t have sprint so don’t even try to use that point, OG Halo can and would work if it was tried. Modern players are spoiled by COD and can’t accept anything but an instant gratification simulator that requires stupid movement mechanics and battle royale

12

> 2535458188883243;11:
> > 2535426777350592;10:
> >
>
> Doom doesn’t have sprint so don’t even try to use that point, OG Halo can and would work if it was tried. Modern players are spoiled by COD and can’t accept anything but an instant gratification simulator that requires stupid movement mechanics and battle royale

An example is how good CSGo and Valorant work. CSGo didn’t change the formula and people still love it because it’s different. Escape from Tarkov is different too. The way 343 goes with Halo is the same as COD and Apex and Titanfall. It’s not different, it is something between COD Style and Halo. It’s hard to compete against mainstream if you try to be like it.

13

> 2535458188883243;11:
> > 2535426777350592;10:
> >
>
> Doom doesn’t have sprint so don’t even try to use that point, OG Halo can and would work if it was tried. Modern players are spoiled by COD and can’t accept anything but an instant gratification simulator that requires stupid movement mechanics and battle royale

It’s almost like a game that hasn’t seen light in nearly 20 years was remade with a fresh coat of graphics and software as a reboot/continuation of a franchise! Imagine that!

Players being spoiled by COD is partially true, the rise of the arcade shooter changed the landscape of the FPS genre.

14

> 2533274861158694;5:
> These types of discussions typically boil down to reductionist lambasting of other people’s different tastes and opinions, so something important to keep in mind is that nobody likes something “for no reason,” and that fans of 343i’s vision to date in Halo 4-5 aren’t “wrong,” necessarily. Just because many of us longtime fans don’t prefer the direction these games have taken the series and the industry as a whole hasn’t responded as commercially well to them doesn’t mean people who enjoy them don’t have their reasons.
>
> That all being said, Infinite doesn’t look to be following the precise vision of 4-5 to me. It also doesn’t look like it’s directly aping on the Bungie games. To me, it appears to be taking certain elements of both and a lot of new direction as well. I’m not sure I’ll like it, but I honestly can’t say it looks like “more of the same,” of the stuff I didn’t like from Halo 4-5. In any event, and as others have alluded to, bridging the divide between the most polarized Classic/Nu Halo fanboys is a foolish and likely impossible goal. In any massive online argument, there are large segments of trolls and willful contrarians who just won’t change their minds on principal.
>
> Bottom line, Infinite looks like a new direction for the series, in correlation with the broad messaging around the game in general, and I think in order for us to be fair we’ll all have to wait and see how it ends up going with the final release before we throw around too many superlatives about it. One thing’s for sure as far as I can tell: it’s not trying to directly cater to either the classic or nu Halo crowd specifically. I think it’s going to do its best to just be a great, broadly accessible experience that stands well with its own identity for the series. Here’s hoping they can pull that off.

Structure look completely halo 5 esq in the demo. Every building/box is a rounded off and all look the same

15

> 2533274861158694;5:
> These types of discussions typically boil down to reductionist lambasting of other people’s different tastes and opinions, so something important to keep in mind is that nobody likes something “for no reason,” and that fans of 343i’s vision to date in Halo 4-5 aren’t “wrong,” necessarily. Just because many of us longtime fans don’t prefer the direction these games have taken the series and the industry as a whole hasn’t responded as commercially well to them doesn’t mean people who enjoy them don’t have their reasons.
>
> That all being said, Infinite doesn’t look to be following the precise vision of 4-5 to me. It also doesn’t look like it’s directly aping on the Bungie games. To me, it appears to be taking certain elements of both and a lot of new direction as well. I’m not sure I’ll like it, but I honestly can’t say it looks like “more of the same,” of the stuff I didn’t like from Halo 4-5. In any event, and as others have alluded to, bridging the divide between the most polarized Classic/Nu Halo fanboys is a foolish and likely impossible goal. In any massive online argument, there are large segments of trolls and willful contrarians who just won’t change their minds on principal.
>
> Bottom line, Infinite looks like a new direction for the series, in correlation with the broad messaging around the game in general, and I think in order for us to be fair we’ll all have to wait and see how it ends up going with the final release before we throw around too many superlatives about it. One thing’s for sure as far as I can tell: it’s not trying to directly cater to either the classic or nu Halo crowd specifically. I think it’s going to do its best to just be a great, broadly accessible experience that stands well with its own identity for the series. Here’s hoping they can pull that off.

^Best take in this topic.

I also think it’s far over-exaggeration by community members when they claim the classic/new debate has divided Halo into two halves of hardliners. There is, in actuality, far more people who, though they have their preferences, are not die hard either way and are fairly tolerant and accepting. Radicals and hardliners seem to be prominent only because they aggressively appear in debate topics and areas, and also because every best-selling series is compromised of casual fans (people who don’t frequent game forums) who far outnumber the hardcore fans. Sure, online people might generally hate sprint, but that only accounts for a fraction of the community; the casuals probably don’t care at all.

16

This is what happens when you force a company to copy another company instead of letting them do their thing.

People think video game development is simpler than it is. “Just be like Bungie!” Instead of being happy that Halo was continuing at all when it easily could have been completely gone after Reach, people complained that it wasn’t the same.

17

> 2533274801472802;16:
> This is what happens when you force a company to copy another company instead of letting them do their thing.

It’s not like they didn’t know what they were getting themselves into before signing their contracts. 343 was specifically created to make Halo games, and so far, all they have developed is anything but.
If they want to “do their thing”, fine. Let them work on an original IP.
No restrictions, no railroading. Have them get it out of their system so they can go back to Halo without all this baggage.
Or, if they want to continue making games for this new franchise, fair enough. Get some people that actually want to make Halo games in the first place.

> 2533274801472802;16:
> Instead of being happy that Halo was continuing at all when it easily could have been completely gone after Reach, people complained that it wasn’t the same.

Why would people care if the franchise is being continued in a way they don’t enjoy?
“Having bad Halo” or “having no Halo” makes no difference, because I’m not going to play Halo either way.

“Rob, top five musical crimes perpetuated by Stevie Wonder in the ’80s and ’90s. Go. Sub-question: is it in fact unfair to criticize a formerly great artist for his latter day sins, is it better to burn out or fade away?”

18

I think it looks great. Classic Halo is way too sluggish for today’s climate, but then H5 was a little too heavy on the new mechanics. Infinite seems like a good middleground.

19

> 2533274801472802;16:
> This is what happens when you force a company to copy another company instead of letting them do their thing.
>
> People think video game development is simpler than it is. “Just be like Bungie!” Instead of being happy that Halo was continuing at all when it easily could have been completely gone after Reach, people complained that it wasn’t the same.

What do you mean with your first sentence? You mean 343 didn’t do their thing with H4/5 and copied bungie?
I don’t say H5 is a bad game. It’s highly competitive and i liked playing it. It would have been a phenomenal spin-off without the worst campaign and boss over and over again in gaming history.
Bungie in my eyes made the first 2 steps to make Halo as bad as possible with Reach’s multiplayer (bloom and abilities). 343 did the next 8 steps with H4 and 9 steps back with H5’s multiplayer.
It’s not easy making new franchises (games) that people love, but it’s ways easier taking a franchise, figure out what people liked and what not and put the pieces together to make it epic and evolve in the right way.
I think Infinite has the potential to have a great campaign with the Banished and Jega on Zeta Halo. But what about the multiplayer, the part many people play for years or month or weeks or days…?
If your game has the same mechanics as every mainstream FPS out there, your game has to be ways better to compete with them to keep the players. But if your game is different, you will get some “bored out players” of the games that have all the same movement mechanics and players that don’t like this type of games.
The “casual player” always plays what his friends are playing and if you get this “friends” you get more players.
I’m just speculating, I’m not a video game market analyst and hopefully I’m wrong because Infinite is what it is. I just want Halo to be a great franchise again.

20

I think it’s pretty sad how everyone is quick to judge the game if you keep criticizing every little thing and just wanting a classic experience you’ll be disappointed. If you want a more classic feel just wait for halo 3 anniversary or whatever update comes next on the MCC. Just like any franchise game there will be updates and things added and yeah I haven’t cared for halo 4 or 5 as much as the original 3 campaign wise but each time is great because it’s a new experience. I’ve been able to enjoy all forms of multiplayer in one way or another throughout the halo series. If your worried about infinite being a mix of everything then yes you’re gonna be disappointed all newer games of a franchise are a mix of old and new gameplay that’s how this works. I swear some of y’all will never be happy with anything.