Your opinion on Space/Underwater gameplay?

What d’you guys think about space gameplay - like in Anchor 9 for Halo Reach and Impact from Halo 4 but made more intense with perhaps starfighters/sabres (like in Reach’s long night of Solace mission) where there are two homeships (two teams [protect the ship/destroy the other]) - people can enter it like they did in Reach and can destroy it from the inside or destroy it with the starfighters which would take longer.

Also, Water gameplay? Bungie [When working on Halo](Now 343) had always had the idea of a harpoon gun which would work great in an underwater setting - underwater gameplay could make for great gameplay (more diverse)but if executed badly - many original Halo fans like myself could dislike it.

Last point - Dynamic maps? - when I say this, I mean, maybe on some maps - there could be a day and night cycle, maybe on some maps you could press a button and AI flood could be released into the MP match (just an example).

Space combat would be a novel spin off but I think it would get boring rather quickly.

Most of the mechanics and features that we currently enjoy; skillful grenade throws, accurately aimed headshots, dynamic actions between players and vehicles, just wouldn’t be possible and while possible, it’s doubtful that 343 would implement a system so deep that actual dogfighting maneuvers would be possible.

In essence it becomes a greatly restricted sandbox with a new coat of paint. Looks cool but easily looses it’s luster. It might be much more enjoyable if actual aerial combat was ingrained into default Halo gameplay much in the same way that jets are incorporated into Battlefield.

Underwater combat just isn’t possible.

Mythbusters proved that diving into even a few feet of water can protect you from bullets. When bullets travel through water deform and become wildly inaccurate. When they tried firing a 50 cal to hit a person under a few feet of water, the bullet nearly vaporized. Then there’s the problem with guns mechanically not working properly underwater. The water impedes the normal action of the gun to eject the brass, cycle the next round, and even impedes the firing pin striking the new bullet.

Sure, the Russians have developed a gun that shoots a flat tipped nail that reaches up to 100 feet but the current technology means that these guns are essentially revolvers. A handful of shots before requiring a lengthy reload period since each shot comes from a separate sealed barrel. Could we extrapolate out that the UNSC has the time and resources to perfect such technology and make guns that work underwater just as well as the ones we currently do above water? I suppose but it just reeks of “waving Space Magic on it and calling it a day.”

Even if we could, we’re going to have drastically reduced lines of sight and significantly delayed movement speeds. Visibility in water is just not that far compared to air and the high viscosity of water is going to impede most movement.

People would end up hating it.

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

^Absolutely disagree with everything about this post^

People have been begging for multiplayer space combat since before Halo 3. It fairly obvious that Star Wars: Battlefront 2 pioneered this style of gameplay, and 9 years after its released it still remains one of the most widely cherished games of its generation. You want evolution in your game? This is the way to go. Halo: Reach showed us that Halo space combat was feasible, it’s well time that it was implemented into the multiplayer.

On a side note, no offense intended, but the post above me is nothing but a hipster pile of biased Yoink!; I’m rapidly getting tired of the people that blindly throw away non-gameplay affecting implements simply on the basis that they haven’t been done before in Halo.

> ^Absolutely disagree with everything about this post^
>
> People have been begging for multiplayer space combat since before Halo 3. It fairly obvious that Star Wars: Battlefront 2 pioneered this style of gameplay, and 9 years after its released it still remains one of the most widely cherished games of its generation. You want evolution in your game? This is the way to go. Halo: Reach showed us that Halo space combat was feasible, <mark>it’s well time that it was implemented into the multiplayer.</mark>
>
> On a side note, no offense intended, but the post above me is nothing but a hipster pile of biased Yoink!; I’m rapidly getting tired of the people that blindly throw away non-gameplay affecting implements simply on the basis that they haven’t been done before in Halo.

Agreed

I’m a long time halo fan, since the first halo, and I second the above statement

> Most of the mechanics and features that we currently enjoy; skillful grenade throws, accurately aimed headshots, dynamic actions between players and vehicles, just wouldn’t be possible and while possible, it’s doubtful that 343 would implement a system so deep that actual dogfighting maneuvers would be possible.
>
> Underwater combat just isn’t possible.

The space combat mechanics have existed since Halo Reach, and they are very well done. All of the mechanics and features of current Halo gameplay are 100% possible in space. In case you’ve never noticed, we’ve had space in Halo for a while(Boarding Action, Anchor 9, Condemned, Cairo Station, FuD), but in a very limited form.

Underwater combat is also just as possible as Space combat. In Halo CE through Halo 4 guns, grenades, melee, and vehicles work underwater. Halo also has boats that work on top of the water, further supporting the possibilities of water combat.

It seems just about all of your issues have to do with how physics impede real life weapons and such from working in the mentioned conditions. Are you forgetting that the game takes place 500 years in the future, where artificial gravity, FTL travel, firearms that operate in vacuum, and super soldiers wearing extremely advanced body armor are commonplace? The limitations of modern day are not the limitations of the future, and certainly not science-fiction.

I really don’t understand what would be so “fun” about underwater combat. Would having a four foot visibility range and muffled sound really be that great? Would driving around in a boat really be that entertaining?

What’s the point?

Now, however, Space combat would be a great addition to Multiplayer. I’m already imagining taking out the engines of the Corvette with swarms of fellow Broadsword pilots at my side. I can already feel the satisfaction of boarding the Covenant Cruiser with my fellow Spartans and storming through the enemy team. It’d be Invasion…

But it’d be in spaaaaccccceeeeeeeeeeeeeee (I had to)

Even more awesome, I can imagine having intense ship-to-ship combat in a level of epicness that is far greater than Star Wars Battlefront. What if there was a gametype that would be having to board and destroy the enemy cruiser? I’m picturing an engagement between a UNSC Frigate and a Covenant Corvette. With 64 v 64 teams, and an expansive battlefield that features the entire innards of both the Corvette and the Frigate, and the blackness of space, the objective would be to board and destroy the enemy ship.

Some players would want to man the ship’s defenses. Imagine plucking out Broadswords and Pelicans from space with a massive Pulse Laser turret. Imagine getting to the exterior deck of the Frigate, hopping into an Onager, and shredding through the Seraphs and Phantoms and Banshees that swarm the ship like flies.

Other players would want to take the fight to the enemies themselves. They’d get behind the wheel of a Broadsword and attack the enemy Corvette. The first step would be to take out the engines, then you and your team would want to take out as many turrets as possible. Once the ship is safe to board, you enter.

Imagine a game of Assault on a fleet-to-fleet scale. The objective: Board the enemy shape, arm the bomb, and defend it until it blows.

Imagine an Invasion game that has the Covenant board a Frigate, and then steal the Forerunner Artifact that lays within. It’d be like Invasion: Boneyard…

But in spaaaaccccceeeeeeee

> I really don’t understand what would be so “fun” about underwater combat. Would having a four foot visibility range and muffled sound really be that great? Would driving around in a boat really be that entertaining?
>
> What’s the point?

I dunno, I think underwater combat would be great. Dropping down to the sea floor and fighting amongst massive underwater leviathans would be one of the coolest things ever. Submerged Forerunner cities? Hell yes.

> > I really don’t understand what would be so “fun” about underwater combat. Would having a four foot visibility range and muffled sound really be that great? Would driving around in a boat really be that entertaining?
> >
> > What’s the point?
>
> I dunno, I think underwater combat would be great. Dropping down to the sea floor and fighting amongst massive underwater leviathans would be one of the coolest things ever. Submerged Forerunner cities? Hell yes.

Yeah, sure it’d be cool. But I still don’t see how great it would be.

Would balancing the sandbox of underwater combat take development time and resources away from doing things such as ensuring that Custom Games, Forge, and Theater aren’t cheaply gilded boxes full of rotting wood?

Would having to sacrifice time and money in order to create completely new combat mechanics for underwater levels result in a broken and dysfunctional UI? Or a fileshare system that doesn’t even work until months after launch?

That’s my issue with implement things such as Underwater and Space combat. As cool and awesome as they can be, I want to know for a fact that Halo 5 won’t be a game that’s good looking and promising from the outside, but rotten and neglected in the inside before I learn that we will be getting all of these “cool” features.

I think if underwater had a great atmosphere filled with immersion (bubbles,great effects, ripples etc…) + if it looked clear and crisp to capture it all - it would look great - but it could be hard to make and make it executable in the sense of it being a Halo game. But it would be awesome if water was more integrated in Halo - like perhaps on a map (if they make maps more dynamic) players can make a dam break causing the map to partially flood for a limited time. (just an eg.)

> Yeah, sure it’d be cool. But I still don’t see how great it would be.
>
> Would balancing the sandbox of underwater combat take development time and resources away from doing things such as ensuring that Custom Games, Forge, and Theater aren’t cheaply gilded boxes full of rotting wood?
>
> Would having to sacrifice time and money in order to create completely new combat mechanics for underwater levels result in a broken and dysfunctional UI? Or a fileshare system that doesn’t even work until months after launch?
>
>
> That’s my issue with implement things such as Underwater and Space combat. As cool and awesome as they can be, I want to know for a fact that Halo 5 won’t be a game that’s good looking and promising from the outside, but rotten and neglected in the inside before I learn that we will be getting all of these “cool” features.

All comes down to personal preference really. I’d gladly take Halo 4 forge and customs if we had damn good underwater and space missions. But then again, I know people who’d rather have the opposite

Hopefully now 343 has a solid team from the beginning of development we can finally see awesome new stuff without cutting things that a good chunk of the player-base enjoy.

The thing I felt left Halo 4 in the dust was the fact that first of all - with spartan ops (even though it was something new) they recycled and reused the same maps for multiple missions. But also the fact that they didn’t really try anything new!!

Halo: Reach was great because it had new spanking ideas like a shop system, dogfighting in campaign, firefight 2.0 and tons of other stuff!

Halo 3 was great because it had the full package back then - theater mode, forge, cool varied maps, customization etc…

Halo 4 - Spartan Ops and Flood mode (which is really living dead)

Hopefully in Halo 5 - Multiplayer Space combat, Firefight 3.0, Updated forge, Updated theater, newer shop system, Dynamic maps, maybe even destruction , dual wielding again?!, better ranking system (something to be proud of!) and loads of other stuff!

> The space combat mechanics have existed since Halo Reach, and they are very well done. All of the mechanics and features of current Halo gameplay are 100% possible in space. In case you’ve never noticed, we’ve had space in Halo for a while(Boarding Action, Anchor 9, Condemned, Cairo Station, FuD), but in a very limited form.

When someone says space combat I picture Sabre’s versus Seraphs ala the middle section of LNoS from Reach.

What you’re describing is Zero G combat. Which is standard combat with tweaked gravity settings. Which I surmise has been limited because despite calls for it, it has not been well received.

> Underwater combat is also just as possible as Space combat. In Halo CE through Halo 4 guns, grenades, melee, and vehicles work underwater.

And so just have guns, grenades, and vehicles work under 10 feet of water like it’s not there? That’s a huge disconnect since the water doesn’t effect the physics at all and the only purpose is to add a blue filter to everything and limit visibility.

> Halo also has boats that work on top of the water, further supporting the possibilities of water combat.

Boat combat is like vehicle combat but worse.

> It seems just about all of your issues have to do with how physics impede real life weapons and such from working in the mentioned conditions. Are you forgetting that the game takes place 500 years in the future, where artificial gravity, FTL travel, <mark>firearms that operate in vacuum,</mark>

Bullets contain their own oxidizing agent so there is no need for oxygen in the atmosphere to ignite the bullet.

> and super soldiers wearing extremely advanced body armor are commonplace? The limitations of modern day are not the limitations of the future, and certainly not science-fiction.

And like I said, just making it all work anyway just reeks of sprinkling it with Space Magic and calling it a day.

Not to mention that despite the obvious sci-fi tech (FTL travel, energy shielding) the rest of the technology is based on current or near future tech. We’re still using firearms powered by chemical propellents instead of having everything powered by magnetic accelerators. In H4 they finally got a MAC shrunk down enough to be carried by a person.

>

> ^Absolutely disagree with everything about this post^
>
> People have been begging for multiplayer space combat since before Halo 3. It fairly obvious that Star Wars: Battlefront 2 pioneered this style of gameplay, and 9 years after its released it still remains one of the most widely cherished games of its generation.

I’ve seen no love for Battlefront 2 outside of the fanbase for it. Likewise the calls for space combat have been few as well.

> You want evolution in your game? This is the way to go. Halo: Reach showed us that Halo space combat was feasible, it’s well time that it was implemented into the multiplayer.

Just because something is feasible does not mean it should be done.

I see this being acceptable in small doses perhaps, as a prelude to a larger engagement. A full fledged stand alone gametype I do not see doing well, it’s a reduction and removal of most of the gameplay elements we currently use.

> On a side note, no offense intended, but the post above me is nothing but a hipster pile of biased Yoink!;

Why is it that when people say no offense intended, they say something offensive anyways like ‘no offense’ excuses the offensive remark?

> I’m rapidly getting tired of the people that blindly throw away non-gameplay affecting implements simply on the basis that they haven’t been done before in Halo.

I’m not throwing the idea away on the basis that it hasn’t been done in Halo before. I’m throwing it away because I don’t see the pros these gametypes bring compared with the cons.

Space: Yes, as proven in Halo Reach LNoS. Most likely it could be based off of SW BFII

Underwater: No(see most comments above)

Dynamic Maps: Of Course, why would anyone not do so with this techology!

On Water: boats, shallow water, and swimming but has a time limit.

Actually a good idea for space combat would be something along the lines of Shattered Horizon, where you have complete three dimensional control, or you can choose to lock to a surface and fight on foot.

And as for star fighters, I’m imagining something along the lines of what you get in Battlefield, with people being sniped out of their fighters. Would be awesome to also see Pelicans fly able in space combat, ferrying Spartans around, and Booster Frames darting around like Mongooses.

Underwater combat would be problematic, but would make for some very interesting and different combat situations. Since weapons and visibility would be extremely limited by the viscosity of water, combat would be slow, possibly graceful, and full of melee and assassination kills. Guns would be a more last resort type thing, although Forerunner weapons and maybe the Brute Spiker would be fairly effective. Also grenades would be more concussive since the fragments wouldn’t be able to travel far.

I feel space combat would work fine if there were proper vehicles for it. You could have dogfights in space, and infantry combat on the ships themselves.

As for underwater combat, not only does it seem entirely irrelevant to Halo (what would even be underwater worth fighting over? Why focus on water in a game mostly about space travel and planets?), it also seems unrealistic and really doesn’t differ any from normal combat except for nerfing most options.

> On a side note, no offense intended, but the post above me is nothing but a hipster pile of biased Yoink!;

Lol, wow…

> I’d gladly take Halo 4 forge and customs if we had damn good underwater and space missions.

Customs and Forge are vastly more important than something that is basically just a visual gimmick.

I wouldn’t want to see it in mm, but if it fit the story that 343i is trying to create then I’m all for it. I just don’t want it to feel forced.

  1. I would say that every map in Halo 5 needs to be dynamic(to a limit).
  2. Space battles? Why not? Board a pelican, destroy banshees, land on the covenants ship, kill enemies on foot, capture the flag, standby for pick up, return safely, and score the flag. We definitely need space integrated in Halo 5’s multiplayer.
  3. Bioshock was a great example of its underwater city and Halo 5 would look amazing underwater, especially with all the map dynamics along with it. Boat battles on top and large elevators that take you to the underwater city and the ability to swim.
    The Results:
    “Game of the year”
    “Best shooter”
    “Outclassed Destiny’s campaign just by its multiplayer”
    “Revolutionary dynamics”

> > The space combat mechanics have existed since Halo Reach, and they are very well done. All of the mechanics and features of current Halo gameplay are 100% possible in space. In case you’ve never noticed, we’ve had space in Halo for a while(Boarding Action, Anchor 9, Condemned, Cairo Station, FuD), but in a very limited form.
>
> When someone says space combat I picture Sabre’s versus Seraphs ala the middle section of LNoS from Reach.
>
> What you’re describing is Zero G combat. Which is standard combat with tweaked gravity settings.

I’m getting the impression that you haven’t played Halo: CE. Great game, I recommend it ;).

> > ^Absolutely disagree with everything about this post^
> >
> > People have been begging for multiplayer space combat since before Halo 3. It fairly obvious that Star Wars: Battlefront 2 pioneered this style of gameplay, and 9 years after its released it still remains one of the most widely cherished games of its generation.
>
> I’ve seen no love for Battlefront 2 outside of the fanbase for it. Likewise the calls for space combat have been few as well.

In the past six months, with a basic Waypoint search, I found this post
with 48 thanks, this poll with an 84% yes threshold, and this poll with a 94% yes threshold.

That said, it’s fairly conceivable that you might find these topics to be rare simply due to the fact that the “yes” decision is often so unanimous that the topic dies off due to the subsequent lack of battling posts.

> I see this being acceptable in small doses perhaps, as a prelude to a larger engagement. A full fledged stand alone gametype I do not see doing well, it’s a reduction and removal of most of the gameplay elements we currently use.

Yes, now let’s completely remove vehicles too! I simply detest the fact that most vehicles do not run around on two feet throwing grenades and swapping weapons! sarcasm

> Why is it that when people say no offense intended, they say something offensive anyways like ‘no offense’ excuses the offensive remark?

It’s for the sake of civility. Would you rather me open up saying “On a side note, you Yoink!-licking clown…”?

To be straight, I don’t play much multiplayer. I’m more of a campaign junky. But since I see a number of posts here referring to Halo Reach’s Long Night of Solace space combat, I’ll throw in my two cents.

That scenario in Reach was interesting the first few times I played it, and yes it was certainly “new” for the series, but after a while it started to get boring an repetitive. Every time I played that scenario after a couple of months, it felt like I was simply “going through the motions” to get to the Corvette.

Halo can be made to do a lot of neat things; many of which I saw back in the days of Halo PC modding that have yet to be implemented into the mainstream of the series, but if there’s anything that Halo doesn’t seem to be, it’s a flight simulator. Sure, it would be fun at first, but I can see the vast majority of the Halo fanbase (the folks you DON’T see posting on the forums), discarding it very quickly in favor of the more familiar gametypes.

When it comes to innovation, I think of things like multiplayer matches with AI fighting both you and each other. I remember an old Blood Gulch mod from Halo PC that spawned about 20 Marines with various weapons at Red Base, while various forms of Covenant spawned at Blue Base. They would move into the middle of the canyon, engage each other, then respawn once they died. And yes, they engaged the players as well.

The nice thing about the above is it combines elements of both Firefight and Multiplayer so you can still play alone OR with up to 16 other folks.