"You haven't played the game yet" And more...

Games Other Halo
1

I’ve been lurking around here for a few months now. I see this popping up everywhere, in every topic, in some way, shape, or form. Often times it is the only real point people make in a post.

But really, on top of this being an argument, if you want to call it that, that has been debunked countless times, it seems to be the phrase of choice for Halo 4, akin to the “Adapt” days of Reach back at bnet.

First of all, I really don’t care which side of these arguments debating ‘how Halo 4 might turn out’ you’re on. As long as you can support your claim, I’ll respect and listen to what you say. However, posts that attack another user’s opinion with some sarcastic joke about how they haven’t played the game yet contribute nothing and mean nothing.

We have gameplay footage. People have extrapolated kill times, map sizes, loadout/specialization effects and many more tidbits of information about the game from this and other pieces of information 343 has released. Combining this with up to 10 or 11 years of experience with Halo titles, depending on the poster, and I think they’ve got enough information on the subject to at least predict how they think the game could turn out with solid reasoning and arguments.

Many people on this forum have valid and well thought out predictions and suggestions on how this game may turn out. Debate these however you will, but saying something like the title of this thread doesn’t contribute to the discussion either way. If we could have nicer discussions of Halo 4 and how different elements with in the game without sarcastic and biting comments on all sides, we would have much more productive and interesting discussions on these forums.

To EDIT again and clarify further: People who make assumptions and opinions should be changing their game too. We cannot know for sure until players have put a decent amount of hours into the game, (Reach is an example of this) so be sure to clarify that what you have is an opinion, and however possible it may be it cannon be completely undisputed until the game is added. Have concerns about the game, and have them voiced, that’s what I’m defending! What I’m not defending is a blatant attack on balance of a game that is still in beta with a refusal to accept that we can only be 99% certain until the game is out. I want to hear opinions, not the repetitive “Time machine” posts and not the “Halo 4 will suck” either.

Please guys, keep it clean. I’d like to hear what you all think about this. Without asking me for my time machine. It’s under lock and key in my basement for my eyes only.

EDIT: For clarification, I’m defending people who are making inferences and opinions on the game rather than definite statements. For example, people who say “I think that X might have some problems working in Halo because of reasons Y and Z”. This does not apply to people who are making absolute statements as those have obvious flaws in structure. Both posts that ignore opinion for this reason and those who assume opinions as facts are offering little room for discussion. This is a defense of opinions that are shut down, not stubborn posts who assume too much. Thanks for bringing this distinction to my attention guys.

2

Well, at least one person gets it.

3

There have been several threads like this, and it’s getting annoying.

Every time someone says that to me, I prove them wrong in the thread, and for some reason they never reply back to me. It’s like they know they’re wrong… :slight_smile:

4

In my opinion, it was just a terrible argument that was used way too much.

5

Just like the infamous “Adapt”, it’s a failed escape attempt in lack of any real arguments to support your views, nothing more. There are many people in this community who should seriously step up their argument construction skills.

6

Great post.

However sometimes it’s a valid ‘argument’ some dude saying “Halo 4 will have no good maps” this early without playing the game or even seeing all of it’s maps is a little silly and over the top.

Just my 2 cents.

7

Sure there are gameplay videos out there and people who have played the Halo games for years, but jumping the gun on a game’s quality IS simply the wrong thing to do. Saying “Halo 4 WON’T have good maps” or “X ruins the gameplay” is wrong.

8

> There have been several threads like this, and it’s getting annoying.
>
> Every time someone says that to me, I prove them wrong in the thread, and for some reason they never reply back to me. It’s like they know they’re wrong… :slight_smile:

If they’re saying ‘you haven’t played Halo 4 yet’ and you prove them wrong, what you’re telling us is you have already played Halo 4. Whoa.

Whoa.

Whoa.

9

> Great post.
>
> However sometimes it’s a valid ‘argument’ some dude saying “Halo 4 will have no good maps” this early without playing the game or even seeing all of it’s maps is a little silly and over the top.
>
> Just my 2 cents.

I don’t need to see all of the maps to know they’re going to be terrible. Haven and Adrift are both big enough for BTB and they’re said to be the smallest maps in the game. Halo 4 is the end of arena Halo.

10

> > Great post.
> >
> > However sometimes it’s a valid ‘argument’ some dude saying “Halo 4 will have no good maps” this early without playing the game or even seeing all of it’s maps is a little silly and over the top.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
>
> <mark>I don’t need to see all of the maps to know they’re going to be terrible.</mark> Haven and Adrift are both big enough for BTB and they’re said to be the smallest maps in the game. Halo 4 is the end of arena Halo.

Again, faulty logic. That’s like saying you know ALL of the Star Wars films are bad based solely on Episode I. Now while I understand you may or may not already be a fan, I’m sure you get the point. Do I know if the maps will all be good or bad? Nope. But I’m sure there will be maps I like and maps I don’t like.

11

The main issue comes about when certain people say things like, “This game will have the worst maps in any Halo game ever!”, or, “This game is going to be an imbalanced POS!”, or, “Promethean Vision is going to be the new Armor Lock!”

We can make plenty of inferences, and have a decent idea of what the game will be like, but there are far too many people saying these things like they’re facts.

The distinction needs to be stated clearly. Not an entire post bashing, criticizing and analyzing Halo 4 as an awful, terrible game then trying to put “IMO” in the beginning like that somehow makes in infallible. It just doesn’t work like that.

Everyone here is making inferences… Very, very weak inferences with almost no basis to stand on. We can look, yes, but looking is a whole lot different than playing.

Here’s a good thread opposed to a bad one:

Good post - I believe the game may have some issues with map design and game flow due to certain modifications and armor abilities. Promethean Vision will allow campers to see who’s coming, but on the other side it will allow the aggressors to see who’s camping. Overall this is an issue that needs to be looked at with scrutiny and made to be fair for all those involved.

Bad post - This game is going to be wrought with imbalance issues due to Promethean Vision and a host of other imbalanced armor abilities. The games are going to become a stand still because of everyone locking down a certain area with no aggressive gameplay. Anyone who tries to NOT use Promethean Vision will be at a severe disadvantage and will lose most of the time.

Do you see the difference? How the good post isn’t coming to such a strong conclusion like the bad post?

The first post is making accurate claims based off of its premises. It’s conclusion is stating that it needs to be looked at with great care to avoid issues. It also analyzes the good and bad of a certain situation.

The second post is making outrageous claims based off of its weak premises. Everything stated is “a matter of fact”-ly and its conclusion is nowhere near supported. It only posts the negative side of the analysis and fails to see it from any other angle.

So, yes we can make inferences to the game itself due to having an abundance of gameplay videos. But nothing we have seen up to this point supports many of the claims people have come up with.

12

> > There have been several threads like this, and it’s getting annoying.
> >
> > Every time someone says that to me, I prove them wrong in the thread, and for some reason they never reply back to me. It’s like they know they’re wrong… :slight_smile:
>
> If they’re saying ‘you haven’t played Halo 4 yet’ and you prove them wrong, what you’re telling us is you have already played Halo 4. Whoa.
>
> Whoa.

Can’t tell if completely ignorant, or just sarcastic. If you really don’t understand what I mean, I mean that I prove to them why the argument fails.

13

> oh for goodness sake we get it, just let them rant on, these thread are getting very irritating.

I know right? If only the website didn’t automatically force you into these threads…Oh, that’s right it doesn’t. There are plenty of threads I don’t post in. You can simply find another thread instead of complaining about this one please.

14

> > Great post.
> >
> > However sometimes it’s a valid ‘argument’ some dude saying “Halo 4 will have no good maps” this early without playing the game or even seeing all of it’s maps is a little silly and over the top.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
>
> I don’t need to see all of the maps to know they’re going to be terrible.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I have a lottery ticket downstairs…

15

> > > Great post.
> > >
> > > However sometimes it’s a valid ‘argument’ some dude saying “Halo 4 will have no good maps” this early without playing the game or even seeing all of it’s maps is a little silly and over the top.
> > >
> > > Just my 2 cents.
> >
> > <mark>I don’t need to see all of the maps to know they’re going to be terrible.</mark> Haven and Adrift are both big enough for BTB and they’re said to be the smallest maps in the game. Halo 4 is the end of arena Halo.
>
> Again, faulty logic. That’s like saying you know ALL of the Star Wars films are bad based solely on Episode I. Now while I understand you may or may not already be a fan, I’m sure you get the point. Do I know if the maps will all be good or bad? Nope. But I’m sure there will be maps I like and maps I don’t like.

We do know that they are not going to be any tight, arena style maps in the game. They’ve already shown us what they consider to be a “small” map and it was gigantic.

16

> There have been several threads like this, and it’s getting annoying.
>
> Every time someone says that to me, I prove them wrong in the thread, and for some reason they never reply back to me. It’s like they know they’re wrong… :slight_smile:

lmao, what a job, too bad you aren’t getting paid but good for you.

The majority of posters seem to blindly believe Halo 4 will be great without acknowledging any ostensible faults.
“You haven’t played it” holds zero discussion value. It’s more idiotic than “adapt”.
These Forums have become cancer, ironic how people give one liners saying OP hasn’t played the game therefore OP’s post is pointless when the same can said the other way.

17

The people who say that tend to be the masses on here who will defend 343 to the death and claim that the game will be brilliant…because they can say that without playing it, but how dare you criticise Halo 4 in any way!

18

> > > > Great post.
> > > >
> > > > However sometimes it’s a valid ‘argument’ some dude saying “Halo 4 will have no good maps” this early without playing the game or even seeing all of it’s maps is a little silly and over the top.
> > > >
> > > > Just my 2 cents.
> > >
> > > <mark>I don’t need to see all of the maps to know they’re going to be terrible.</mark> Haven and Adrift are both big enough for BTB and they’re said to be the smallest maps in the game. Halo 4 is the end of arena Halo.
> >
> > Again, faulty logic. That’s like saying you know ALL of the Star Wars films are bad based solely on Episode I. Now while I understand you may or may not already be a fan, I’m sure you get the point. Do I know if the maps will all be good or bad? Nope. But I’m sure there will be maps I like and maps I don’t like.
>
> We do know that they are not going to be any tight, arena style maps in the game. They’ve already shown us what they consider to be a “small” map and it was gigantic.

So that automatically means ALL of the maps are going to be bad? No.

19

> Sure there are gameplay videos out there and people who have played the Halo games for years, but jumping the gun on a game’s quality IS simply the wrong thing to do. Saying “Halo 4 WON’T have good maps” or “X ruins the gameplay” is wrong.

^ This, I have come across too many threads saying simply “the game is gonna suck”, “the game is gonna fail”, etc. People cannot seem to comprehend that the game is change, and it will be tweaked. To say that you disagree with something being implemented is one thing, but to state a prediction as if it were fact is something that is totally uncalled for. Attitude is half the argument OP.

20

> Sure there are gameplay videos out there and people who have played the Halo games for years, but jumping the gun on a game’s quality IS simply the wrong thing to do. Saying “Halo 4 WON’T have good maps” or “X ruins the gameplay” is wrong.

If it’s a flat out certain statement, I agree with you. If they’re saying “I don’t think Halo 4 will have good maps because X, Y and Z”, I’ll respect and listen to what they say. On that issue, I have concerns because a lot of the arguments made in that topic you’re referencing seem solid, but the assumption that all of them must be bad is taking it too far.

And @MattKohl101, I see what you’re saying and agree that people who are dead certain that something will play out awfully are taking things too far, but I do see the arguments in a lot of those posts as being based in ideas that make sense. While I do not agree with their certain attitude towards the various topics people have been ranting on, I do have concern. I just make sure to preface with “I am worried about X because Y” instead of “X is going to be bad because of Y”. It’s a slight but important difference that seems to echo what you said.

Both of these are kind of the same points, but it’s a slight difference I want to stress.

On a side note, I see small examples of the kinds of posts that this thread is looking down on here as replies. Please guys, say something substantial in a post. Changing the words around or using some other ‘creative’ example of foresight isn’t giving your post any conversational value.