"You are only a vocal minority"

Are we really?

I just want to address something I have been hearing a lot on these forums from Halo 4 defenders, and that is that the people who complain about Halo 4 on the forums are only a vocal minority, implying that most other people love the game.

First of all, let’s assume that everyone that still plays Halo 4 likes the game and has no complaints (which I don’t believe for one minute, but will address later on).
The first problem is that this doesn’t take into account all the people who have left the game so far.

I can already hear the arguments coming my way, so I will address those now.

Halo 4 defender:“There are more games competing with Halo 4 now, it’s not like back in the Halo 3 days. How do you know those people left Halo 4 because they hated it? They might have left for other games”
My answer: Well… I don’t know, but neither do you, and you are the one making the claim.

Another thing I would say is, it’s very possible that many of those people left for other games, but is that really an excuse?
If people invested money in Halo 4, they obviously didn’t all plan on buying it and playing for only 7 days and then moving on to something else.
Who is to say that they all liked Halo 4, but liked another game better? Could it not be that they disliked Halo 4, and liked another game better?

Halo 4 defender:“People play more frequently when the game is first released, so there will naturally be higher populations at the start of a games release, it doesn’t necessarily mean that all those people left the game. They just stopped playing as much because they have lives”

My answer: True, a lot of people will play more often when the game is first released. But how do you know that this is what accounts for ALL of the drop in Halo 4’s online population numbers? Again, you are the one making the claim that complainers are a minority, so you must have the proof.

Halo 4 defender:“You are forgetting about all the people who are playing Spartan Ops, Campaign, Custom Games and Forge”.
My answer: Irrelevant, I’m not referring to the actual numbers of people online at any one time (that’s another story), I’m referring to the drop in numbers we have seen over a period of time.

Now, for the sake of argument we were assuming that everyone who still plays Halo 4 likes the game and doesn’t complain.
I don’t actually believe this to be true, I would say that many (what percentage we don’t actually know) of the people still playing Halo 4 online are people who are dedicated Halo fans who are just hoping that 343 will improve the game.
So these people keep coming back to the game, only ready to leave when they know for sure that the game wont be “fixed”.

I’m not going to use this as “proof” of anything, but here is some food for thought.
I’ve always been very talkative on Xbox live and I always say hi to other players with mics at the start of every game.
And most of the time, it will end up in conversations with people (sometimes it ends up in me being shouted at for being British, but I don’t mind that).
One topic that I always end up talking about is Halo 4 itself, which only makes sense because it is the first thing I have in common with the person I am talking to.
As I’m talking about Halo with my new buddies, I always ask them what they think of the game and a surprising amount of people actually start by complaining about the multiplayer aspects of the game.
It is most often the very same complaints we hear all the time on the forums (Weapon balance, ordnance drops, armour abilities, JIP etc.).

I can honestly say that most people I talk to on Halo 4 have these complaints. When I ask them why they still play, they usually either say that they are waiting for it to get better, or that they still enjoy it enough to play, despite its flaws.
Granted, not everyone I talk to says they dislike the changes 343 have made, it’s just most people (in my experience).

If you have a mic, I highly encourage you to start speaking to people you come across on Halo 4, ask them what they think of the game. Don’t take my word for it, see for yourself how many people are in the same boat as us complainers.
In fact, when I get back on Halo 4 (no Xbox at the moment) I will ask a certain amount of people (maybe 100 or so?) what their opinions on Halo 4 are, and then I will post the results here.
If anyone else would do the same, that would be cool. It certainly wouldn’t prove anything, but would be very interesting.

I personally believe that in reality, more Halo fans (from every Halo era) dislike the changes 343 have made with Halo 4. But I am not arguing that here, because I have no proof and it’s just my personal opinion.
My argument in this thread, is that there is no way anyone can say that complainers are just a “vocal minority”. You have no real reason to believe that.

So to sum everything up, next time you plan on saying that Halo 4 complainers are in the minority, remember this thread and think about what you are about to say because there is no logical pathway to that conclusion.

Edit: A lot of Halo 4 defenders are having trouble understanding the message of this thread.

  1. This thread is NOT an attempt to prove that Halo fans who dislike Halo 4 are a majority of the overall Halo population.
  2. This thread is NOT claiming that Halo Waypoint forum posters are a majority of Halo’s population.
  3. The point of this thread is to clearly outline why it is illogical to claim that since Halo Waypoint forum posters are only a minority of Halo’s overall fan base, that this somehow means Halo fans who dislike/have complaints about Halo 4 are only a minority of the overall Halo fan base.
  4. I have no idea what percentage of the Halo fan base dislike Halo 4, but neither do you and that is the whole point of this thread.
    Halo Waypoint forum posters being a minority of the Halo population has no bearing whatsoever on how many people like or dislike the game.

I agree 100%. It’s even as simple as looking at the population drop. Halo 4 was a quick fix for a MAJORITY of players because of its ADD gameplay. And honestly that is fun for a few weeks max. That’s how long I can play a Call of Duty game for. People can make all the excuses you listed but that doesn’t change the fact that tons of players left.

Just over 500k registered members on waypoint, very few of them are active posters on here. Game has sold well over 7 million copies, so yes we who do post on here whether it be complaints or constructive feedback etc. is indeed a very low minority.

> Are we really?
>
> I just want to address something I have been hearing a lot on these forums from Halo 4 defenders, and that is that the people who complain about Halo 4 on the forums are only a vocal minority, implying that most other people love the game.
>
> First of all, let’s assume that everyone that still plays Halo 4 likes the game and has no complaints (which I don’t believe for one minute, but will address later on).
> The first problem is that this doesn’t take into account all the people who have left the game so far.
>
> I can already hear the arguments coming my way, so I will address those now.
>
> Halo 4 defender:“There are more games competing with Halo 4 now, it’s not like back in the Halo 3 days. How do you know those people left Halo 4 because they hated it? They might have left for other games”
> My answer: Well… I don’t know, but neither do you, and you are the one making the claim.
>
> Another thing I would say is, it’s very possible that many of those people left for other games, but is that really an excuse?
> If people invested money in Halo 4, they obviously didn’t all plan on buying it and playing for only 7 days and then moving on to something else.
> Who is to say that they all liked Halo 4, but liked another game better? Could it not be that they disliked Halo 4, and liked another game better?
>
> Halo 4 defender:“People play more frequently when the game is first released, so there will naturally be higher populations at the start of a games release, it doesn’t necessarily mean that all those people left the game. They just stopped playing as much because they have lives”
>
> My answer: True, a lot of people will play more often when the game is first released. But how do you know that this is what accounts for ALL of the drop in Halo 4’s online population numbers? Again, you are the one making the claim that complainers are a minority, so you must have the proof.
>
> Halo 4 defender:“You are forgetting about all the people who are playing Spartan Ops, Campaign, Custom Games and Forge”.
> My answer: Irrelevant, I’m not referring to the actual numbers of people online at any one time (that’s another story), I’m referring to the drop in numbers we have seen over a period of time.
>
> Now, for the sake of argument we were assuming that everyone who still plays Halo 4 likes the game and doesn’t complain.
> I don’t actually believe this to be true, I would say that many (what percentage we don’t actually know) of the people still playing Halo 4 online are people who are <mark>dedicated Halo fans</mark> who are just hoping that 343 will improve the game.
> So these people keep coming back to the game, only ready to leave when they know for sure that the game wont be “fixed”.
>
> I’m not going to use this as “proof” of anything, but here is some food for thought.
> I’ve always been very talkative on Xbox live and I always say hi to other players with mics at the start of every game.
> And most of the time, it will end up in conversations with people (sometimes it ends up in me being shouted at for being British, but I don’t mind that).
> One topic that I always end up talking about is Halo 4 itself, which only makes sense because it is the first thing I have in common with the person I am talking to.
> As I’m talking about Halo with my new buddies, I always ask them what they think of the game and a surprising amount of people actually start by complaining about the multiplayer aspects of the game.
> It is most often the very same complaints we hear all the time on the forums (Weapon balance, ordnance drops, armour abilities, JIP etc.).
>
> I can honestly say that most people I talk to on Halo 4 have these complaints. When I ask them why they still play, they usually either say that they are waiting for it to get better, or that they still enjoy it enough to play, despite its flaws.
> Granted, not everyone I talk to says they dislike the changes 343 have made, it’s just most people (in my experience).
>
> If you have a mic, I highly encourage you to start speaking to people you come across on Halo 4, ask them what they think of the game. Don’t take my word for it, see for yourself how many people are in the same boat as us complainers.
> In fact, when I get back on Halo 4 (no Xbox at the moment) I will ask a certain amount of people (maybe 100 or so?) what their opinions on Halo 4 are, and then I will post the results here.
> If anyone else would do the same, that would be cool. It certainly wouldn’t prove anything, but would be very interesting.
>
> I personally believe that in reality, more Halo fans (from every Halo era) dislike the changes 343 have made with Halo 4. But I am not arguing that here, because I have no proof and it’s just my personal opinion.
> My argument in this thread, is that there is no way anyone can say that complainers are just a “vocal minority”. You have no real reason to believe that.
>
> So to sum everything up, next time you plan on saying that Halo 4 complainers are in the minority, remember this thread and think about what you are about to say because there is no logical pathway to that conclusion.

Highlighted part - well thats me.I agree with what you put.I don’t think we are either.

I noticed the same thing when I talked to people online, most people complain about something when I ask them what they think about the game, only 1 person I know likes it, but the rest of my friends who play dislike it.

The only place people talk badly about halo 4 is in the halo 4 forum section. You can’t possibly think that part is most of the community. You also can’t assume the population drop is purely because of people hating the game. New games come out, this year has been crazy. Also, the the pop we see is not the whole game it’s just matchmaking. Bf 3 shows 80,000 on peak hours and its 10th on Xbox live.

> I noticed the same thing when I talked to people online, most people complain about something when I ask them what they think about the game, only 1 person I know likes it, but the rest of my friends who play dislike it.

I hate the perks in this game because they do so little it’s like there not even there. They could have been subbed out for something better, but do I hate this game? No, not at all. Complaining about something is different than hating a game.

> The only place people talk badly about halo 4 is in the halo 4 forum section.

Not at all. HaloGAF, Halo Council, CoD forums, various gaming forums, Youtube, Steam…

> You can’t possibly think that part is most of the community.

The game is well known yet has 40k players on average. That’s self-evident of people’s thoughts on the game.

> You also can’t assume the population drop is purely because of people hating the game. New games come out, this year has been crazy

As I have said countless times, THAT ARGUMENT APPLIES TO ANY GAME, SERIES, OR FRANCHISE CURRENTLY ON THE MARKET. BLOPS2 has to compete with new games, Minecraft has to compete with new games, so on so forth.

Yet they are doing well, while in comparison Halo 4 is not.

> I hate the perks in this game because they do so little it’s like there not even there.

Implying that’s bad…

> Are we really?
>
> I just want to address something I have been hearing a lot on these forums from Halo 4 defenders, and that is that the people who complain about Halo 4 on the forums are only a vocal minority, implying that most other people love the game.
>
> First of all, let’s assume that everyone that still plays Halo 4 likes the game and has no complaints (which I don’t believe for one minute, but will address later on).
> The first problem is that this doesn’t take into account all the people who have left the game so far.
>
> I can already hear the arguments coming my way, so I will address those now.
>
> Halo 4 defender:“There are more games competing with Halo 4 now, it’s not like back in the Halo 3 days. How do you know those people left Halo 4 because they hated it? They might have left for other games”
> My answer: Well… I don’t know, but neither do you, and you are the one making the claim.
>
> Another thing I would say is, it’s very possible that many of those people left for other games, but is that really an excuse?
> If people invested money in Halo 4, they obviously didn’t all plan on buying it and playing for only 7 days and then moving on to something else.
> Who is to say that they all liked Halo 4, but liked another game better? Could it not be that they disliked Halo 4, and liked another game better?
>
> Halo 4 defender:“People play more frequently when the game is first released, so there will naturally be higher populations at the start of a games release, it doesn’t necessarily mean that all those people left the game. They just stopped playing as much because they have lives”
>
> My answer: True, a lot of people will play more often when the game is first released. But how do you know that this is what accounts for ALL of the drop in Halo 4’s online population numbers? Again, you are the one making the claim that complainers are a minority, so you must have the proof.
>
> Halo 4 defender:“You are forgetting about all the people who are playing Spartan Ops, Campaign, Custom Games and Forge”.
> My answer: Irrelevant, I’m not referring to the actual numbers of people online at any one time (that’s another story), I’m referring to the drop in numbers we have seen over a period of time.
>
> Now, for the sake of argument we were assuming that everyone who still plays Halo 4 likes the game and doesn’t complain.
> I don’t actually believe this to be true, I would say that many (what percentage we don’t actually know) of the people still playing Halo 4 online are people who are dedicated Halo fans who are just hoping that 343 will improve the game.
> So these people keep coming back to the game, only ready to leave when they know for sure that the game wont be “fixed”.
>
> I’m not going to use this as “proof” of anything, but here is some food for thought.
> I’ve always been very talkative on Xbox live and I always say hi to other players with mics at the start of every game.
> And most of the time, it will end up in conversations with people (sometimes it ends up in me being shouted at for being British, but I don’t mind that).
> One topic that I always end up talking about is Halo 4 itself, which only makes sense because it is the first thing I have in common with the person I am talking to.
> As I’m talking about Halo with my new buddies, I always ask them what they think of the game and a surprising amount of people actually start by complaining about the multiplayer aspects of the game.
> It is most often the very same complaints we hear all the time on the forums (Weapon balance, ordnance drops, armour abilities, JIP etc.).
>
> I can honestly say that most people I talk to on Halo 4 have these complaints. When I ask them why they still play, they usually either say that they are waiting for it to get better, or that they still enjoy it enough to play, despite its flaws.
> Granted, not everyone I talk to says they dislike the changes 343 have made, it’s just most people (in my experience).
>
> If you have a mic, I highly encourage you to start speaking to people you come across on Halo 4, ask them what they think of the game. Don’t take my word for it, see for yourself how many people are in the same boat as us complainers.
> In fact, when I get back on Halo 4 (no Xbox at the moment) I will ask a certain amount of people (maybe 100 or so?) what their opinions on Halo 4 are, and then I will post the results here.
> If anyone else would do the same, that would be cool. It certainly wouldn’t prove anything, but would be very interesting.
>
> <mark>I personally believe that in reality</mark>, more Halo fans (from every Halo era) dislike the changes 343 have made with Halo 4. But I am not arguing that here, because I have no proof and it’s just my personal opinion.
> My argument in this thread, is that there is no way anyone can say that complainers are just a “vocal minority”. You have no real reason to believe that.
>
> So to sum everything up, next time you plan on saying that Halo 4 complainers are in the minority, remember this thread and think about what you are about to say because there is no logical pathway to that conclusion.

Unfortunately for you, this is just another thread which proves nothing more than your view, with no evidence.

You are in the minority and yes, that is my view.

However, I do have some evidence and that is the actual population lists. Infinity Slayer and BTIS have since day one been the most populated; that is a fact. As of today, they are still the most populated play lists; that is a fact.

Your type Yoinked and whined about having more of a Halo 3 style play list. You and others got them, Team Throwdown etc. Fact is they have been the least populated play lists. For weeks now Team Throwdown has sat at either second last position or last position every day; that’s a fact.

Another fact is that you type and others Yoinked and whined about a ranking system. It is here and the CSR win/loss competitive play lists are the least populated; that is a fact. (Other than CTF which is popular by both crowds).

Another fact is that your type and others on these forums are a vocal majority but, in reality, IMO, a minority as the above facts show (my interpretation of the facts).

Another fact is that despite your so called compeitive play lists and win/loss ranking system, the most played lists are the so called social lists…fact!

Fact, your OP is just another attempt by the vocal majority on this forum, who in playing number terms as the daily Infinity social play lists show, are a minority…a very small minority at that…fact. True, I can not prove with certainty that those that continually play the social lists are all in favor of every thing but, the very fact that those lists remain the most popular, can be used as implied evidence that what I have always stated has a great deal of merit. On the other hand, you can not provide any evidence other than the sheer number of Yoinking and whining threads on this forum.

So because most people playing the least populated game of the series like Infinity Slayer, it means the people who dislike Halo 4 are the minority.

Take a step back and re-evaluate that logic.

> Just over 500k registered members on waypoint, very few of them are active posters on here. Game has sold well over 7 million copies, so yes we who do post on here whether it be complaints or constructive feedback etc. is indeed a very low minority.

This very low minority is more important than all the people who stays quiet…If you dont state your opinion then youre no one

> However, I do have some evidence and that is the actual population lists. Infinity Slayer and BTIS have since day one been the most populated; that is a fact. As of today, they are still the most populated play lists; that is a fact.

The popularity of individual playlists within Halo 4 has nothing to do with the overall population drop since launch. Your “fact” is irrelevant.

> Your type Yoinked and whined about having more of a Halo 3 style play list. You and others got them, Team Throwdown etc. Fact is they have been the least populated play lists. For weeks now Team Throwdown has sat at either second last position or last position every day; that’s a fact.

There are many reasons why playlists like Team Throwdown are unpopular. I stopped playing it because it lacked all of the classic slayer settings: namely sprint and ordnance were not disabled. In any case it does not prove that people who dislike Halo 4 are a minority.

> Another fact is that <mark>you type and others Yoinked and whined about a ranking system. It is here</mark> and the CSR win/loss competitive play lists are the least populated; that is a fact. (Other than CTF which is popular by both crowds).
>
> Another fact is that your type and others on these forums are a vocal majority but, in reality, IMO, a minority as the above facts show (my interpretation of the facts).
>
> Another fact is that despite your so called compeitive play lists and win/loss ranking system, <mark>the most played lists are the so called social lists</mark>…fact!

Many people have left over this issue. Every playlist is attached to this “waypoint lottery” you call CSR. A set of random numbers on a webpage does make it a ranking system. Whatever you wish to believe, every playlist in Halo 4 is “social.”

> Fact, your OP is just another attempt by the vocal majority on this forum, <mark>who in playing number terms as the daily Infinity social play lists show, are a minority</mark>…a very small minority at that…fact. True, I can not prove with certainty that those that continually play the social lists are all in favor of every thing but, the very fact that those lists remain the most popular, can be used as implied evidence that what I have always stated has a great deal of merit. On the other hand, you can not provide any evidence other than the sheer number of Yoinking and whining threads on this forum.

So, the people who post in the forums criticizing Halo 4 are the same people who occupy the least popular playlists every day? Are you really making this assertion? Because we are the vocal majority on the forums, our opinions must be in the minority? How is that a “fact?”

None of your points prove that people who criticize Halo 4 are in the minority. All playlist population numbers prove is what parts of the game are most popular. They don’t say anything about the people in those playlists. Punctuating every sentence with “fact” does not make your assertions facts, or even relevant.

Here is a fact: Some people who like Halo 4 post in the forums; some people who dislike Halo 4 post in the forums. The “likes” are in the minority.

In response to Wolfblade : If 343i had actually given us a competitive playlist with competitive settings Throwdown would not be the least populated playlist.

Unfortunately , 343i gave us what they thought would be competitive , and for various reasons that have been stated , it was not competitive. Random factors should not be included in a “skill based” competition.

Also , even though I am not an advocate of the CSR system , it has not been operating long enough for people to give an informed opinion as to how it actually works. But , it is a “fact” that if 343i had gotten this right , seeing as the vocal majority seemed to have been asking for it , it should have driven H4’s population numbers through the roof. Obviously , they did not get it right and we are left with a 40k population that is predominately social.<-(Reason social playlists are most active).

> Just over 500k registered members on waypoint, very few of them are active posters on here. Game has sold well over 7 million copies, so yes we who do post on here whether it be complaints or constructive feedback etc. is indeed a very low minority.

Obviously, but I’m not addressing the idea that we on here are a minority of Halo 4’s population.

I’m addressing the suggestion that people who dislike Halo 4 are only a minority.
2 completely different things, read over the post again.

> So because most people playing the least populated game of the series like Infinity Slayer, it means the people who dislike Halo 4 are the minority.
>
> Take a step back and re-evaluate that logic.

I would say the Majority is made up of the people who simply do not voice their opinions or views.

Both sides defenders and Haters are in the Minority.

> > So because most people playing the least populated game of the series like Infinity Slayer, it means the people who dislike Halo 4 are the minority.
> >
> > Take a step back and re-evaluate that logic.
>
> I would say the Majority is made up of the people who simply do not voice their opinions or views.
>
> Both sides defenders and Haters are in the Minority.

Can I just make something clear to everyone, because there seems to be a misunderstanding about what I’m actually talking about.

I am NOT talking about people who complain specifically on forums, I am talking about ALL people who have complaints about this game.
Obviously the people who post their complaints on forums are in a minority, this does not need to be discussed.

I’m talking about the assertion that people who dislike/have many complaints about this game are only a minority.
Or in other words, the idea that out of all people who have ever played Halo 4, most people like the game and a minority dislike the game.
You simply cannot make this claim if you wish to be taken seriously.

So I ask nicely of everyone, please read the post and make sure you understand what I’m talking about before you post a reply.

Game sold millions but somehow struggles to hold a 40K population. That’s what I call a minority. The population will return when Halo does.

> Game sold millions but somehow struggles to hold a 40K population. That’s what I call a minority. The population will return when Halo does.

agreed. common sense.

> Game sold millions but somehow struggles to hold a 40K population. That’s what I call a minority. The population will return when Halo does.

Amen, brother.

> The only place people talk badly about halo 4 is in the halo 4 forum section.

Did you read my post? Speak to people on the game itself and see for yourself… Or look at some other forums.

> You can’t possibly think that part is most of the community.

Have I said that? Or did I say that I believe many of the none vocal part of the overall Halo 4 community share the same dislikes as the “vocal minority” on the forums? Again, read my post over.

> You also can’t assume the population drop is purely because of people hating the game.

Please refer me to the part of my post where I made this assumption.
If you read it again, you’ll probably notice that I simply stated that it can’t be assumed that the population drop is purely or even mostly based on people moving on to other games. I then stated another possibility (not as a fact) for people to consider, and that is the possibility that a lot of the people who left Halo 4 for other games, actually left BECAUSE they dislike Halo 4.
This is a possibility, I took special care to word everything so that people know I’m not stating any facts, only possibilities, yet a lot of people are still finding it difficult to understand.