Yet another 1-50 thread. (Solutions inside!)

Games Other Halo
1

> Here’s a suggestion that I would hope gets noticed.
>
> 1. Bring back 1-50 ranked playlists for all the main gametypes. (Team Slayer, Team Snipers, Team Objective, Rumble Pit, Team Swat.) If possible, these 1-50 ranks would also pay homage to H2’s ranking system with levels 44-50 being symbols and with the system completely reworked and adjusted for Trueskill so that leveling is not as easy as it was in H3. This way, the life and replay value of the game would dramatically increase.
>
> 2. Introduce social playlists just as H3 had. (Big Team Battle, Living Dead [Infection], Various other social playlists like Grifball, Multiteam, etc. This would separate and make finding certain demographics of players easier. People could play ranked, social, or arena. That’s 3 very clear distinctive categories and provides a wide range of variety for any kind of gamer.
>
> 3. Keep Arena the way it is, it can act as a welcome addition on top of the previous two suggestions. Were these to be implemented as such, the lifespan of Reach would be dramatically increased and many of the players would be completely satisfied as we would have a CHOICE as to whether or not we play and maintain our ranks in Onyx.
>
> Think about it, is there any reason that this wouldn’t work? All I see by looking at this is positive outcomes, I see no cons or negatives whatsoever about providing us with such means to entertain ourselves.
>
> H2 fans would be pleased, H3 fans would be pleased, and Reach fans would be pleased. Giving us elements from all 3 games and lengthening the life of Reach itself in the process while providing such a wide variety of play value, that’s quite flawless and would work very well.
>
> Some will be satisfied by having a 50 or multiple 50’s and this way you could still tell someone was a good competitive player regardless of whether or not they want to step into Arena and maintain a rank.
>
> If someone wants to get 50’s in everything AND maintain Onyx rating every month, then you know they’re really probably hardcore about the game and quite skilled. There’s really no refuting the data right in front of you when there is so much provided given this new system I’ve suggested.
>
> If someone wants to play only social, than so be it. You can tell that they are social and that’s fine.
>
> As you can see, all 3 demographics of players would be completely appeased and I would see nothing but positive outcomes.
>
> As it stands now with the current system, none of the demographing is possible and you can’t tell any good players from bad players just because all we have to go on is a somewhat faulty Arena system. Someone’s in Onyx? What exactly does that mean?
>
> Numerical 1-50 data crunched on top of Arena provides layers of insight to a players skill instead of 1 baseless layer that you can’t really tell anything about.
>
> Please consider this.

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=50502673&postRepeater1-p=1

Here’s my original thread from eons ago, but my original opinion still stands.

Brace yourselves, what you’re about to read is not just another Arena post. Please provide intelligent discussion to the thread so that this gets noticed.

I love Reach, don’t get me wrong. I enjoy matchmaking for the most part, I’m fine with bloom and armor abilities, but what urks me the most is the ranking/arena system.

H2 had it right, it didn’t try to be like any other game. Halo was Halo back then, and that’s what we fell in love with. It had it’s own personalized 1-50 ranking system with custom art for each level and a difficulty that everyone could love that kept us going for a very long time, because reaching lvl 50 was nearly impossible.

Back in H2 it was much easier to tell who was good, who was a cheater, and who was bad. Anyone with a 40+ was obviously very good or a blatant cheater, and it was easy to discern just by playing with them. My highest legit rank was a lvl 46 in Team Slayer, and I never was able to get to a 50 but I was high enough that I was satisfied and felt like I actually achieved something many had not.

H3 broke this system, giving us a simple 1-50 numbered system with a flawed trueskill system, and making it much easier to attain a high rank. This virtually destroyed the boundaries of good and bad players, as pretty much anyone could get a 50. I got mine less than 2 weeks after the game came out and pretty much quit afterwards. What was the point of me playing when I had already attained the highest level?

While H3 broke the system, it still gave us and others SOMETHING to work towards. There were still individual levels in each playlist, giving us many things to build up and play and giving us something to continue to play and work for.

Reach completely ruins this, Reach is a great game with a horrible system. There is nothing for us to work towards, ranks mean nothing besides telling people how much you play, and Arena is completely broken.

I feel as if Bungie had something golden with H2, and decided that they wanted Halo to be like everything else and completely ruined the experience. Reach is still Halo, but Arena IS NOT. Arena is not Halo, Arena isn’t what we wanted, what made you think we wanted you to change the system and make it so broken?

You say Arena encourages teamwork, while many threads blatantly prove otherwise. It’s a selfish, team lone wolves playlist that encourages nothing but stat -Yoink!- and short term immersion.

Many of you might say, “If you want immersion, work for Onyx every month!” Why? What is at all fun about proving myself the same exact way month after month, where the game FORCES me to play a MINIMUM of 3 games per day, 7 days per month. And that’s only if I want to be put in a terrible division, of course I’d have to play much longer than that to get into Onyx.

Arena gives us nothing to work towards but boring 4 digit, selfish numbers and a very bland CoD style division. They don’t even look good, they don’t even look HALO.

So what I’m saying is, why did you give us an amazing Halo game that plays great, but ruin it with such a terrible non-Halo ranking system? We don’t want to play CoD Bungie, we don’t want to play Army. We want Halo, and we’ve told you this since the beginning of Halo 2 where you made us grow fond of you in the first place.

I feel like there is no long term commitment to this game, regardless of how much I enjoy playing it. I have nothing to work for, being forced to work for it is not the same as me earning it at my own pace on my own time and maintaining it MYSELF.

Let others judge how good I am when they play with me, but do NOT force me to play on a broken system for 7 days out of every month just to get put into a division that still does not even remotely reflect the player skill level.

Anyone else feel the same way?

2

Reserved for forum input/ideas

343 said Trueskill was out in H4 (Or at least Reach’s version of Trueskill), is it possible they are considering using the 1-50 in pair with XP to match people more fairly?

3

I skimmed over your post, but from what I’ve gathered, you’d like the 1-50 rank system to return due to the flaws and shortcomings of the Arena ranking system.

I agree. Not only does 1-50 (or any numerical rank progression) work well, it also “feels” like Halo. Yes, ranking systems can be abused. It’s inevitable. If 343i implements a proper skill-system, a 1-50 ranking system would work very well. Going from 1 to 50 is what kept a lot of people coming back. The Arena ranks did not give people that satisfying feeling.

4

Honestly I think it should be based on your preformance and not by winning. It’s a Trueskill system so it should represent your indavidual skill.

5

> Honestly I think it should be based on your preformance and not by winning. It’s a Trueskill system so it should represent your indavidual skill.

I understand not everybody is as competitive as me or others, but I always took great enjoyment out of winning. In fact, don’t we all?

Winning to level up provided the incentive to find a team, friends, people to play with so that you could all get better at the game and level up together. This alone knitted a close community of players together, and with this new Credit/XP system the incentive for team based play is somewhat gone, in my opinion.

Anybody can play alone and rank up, but that rank doesn’t mean anything anymore. It’s just a symbol of “I’ve played this game a shitton, look at my meaningless symbols.” Before, it was much more personal and more of a “Wow, these people on my team are really good, we should party up and continue climbing the ranks together” or “These people weren’t so great, but I’ll play with them to make them better and because they’re cool folks.” etc.

This is not to say that a casual approach is unwarranted, as I’ve said combining the current cR/XP methods with a numerical method would allow casual, as well as competitive players to get their fix of whatever they like. Ranked and social playlists should make a return and would allow people, such as myself, who enjoy a very competitive environment to take part in the numerical playlists, while casual players can enjoy a more social approach in the non-ranked playlists.

6

> Honestly I think it should be based on your preformance and not by winning. It’s a Trueskill system so it should represent your indavidual skill.

I totally disagree. It should take the gametype you’re playing into account which, also, relies a bit on whether you win.

Team Slayer - Take in kills, deaths, assists, medals.
Free for All - Kills, deaths, medals
Objective - Some kills, some deaths, objective medals, assists

It makes more sense. A skilled player will do what the gametype asks for best (e.g. Team Slayer asking for teamwork, etc.).

7

> Honestly I think it should be based on your preformance and not by winning. It’s a Trueskill system so it should represent your indavidual skill.

well,Remember the first version of arena? It didnt feel like a team game,i think win/loss is the way to go.

8

I’m all for the return of the real ranking system we deserve. Arena was a flop. I invest my time in competitive matches and take pride in improving my rank, and learning from my mistakes. This can’t be accomplished in social matchmaking. In fact, social matchmaking is VERY unbalanced. Games are seldom close, there are constant quitters, and that feeling of “somethings at stake” isn’t there. It will be a sad day if Halo 4 continues down the path of Reach. I honestly can’t see myself playing just unranked playlist, there is absolutely nothing in it for me, I don’t care about how many spartan points or armor unlocks I earn, I care about reaching that 50 in multiple playlist or doing my best with a solid team who actually wear headsets.

If Halo 4 doesn’t include skill levels, my pickup line I use on the ladies will no longer be valid.

9

> I’m all for the return of the real ranking system we deserve. Arena was a flop. I invest my time in competitive matches and take pride in improving my rank, and learning from my mistakes. This can’t be accomplished in social matchmaking. In fact, social matchmaking is VERY unbalanced. Games are seldom close, there are constant quitters, and that feeling of “somethings at stake” isn’t there. It will be a sad day if Halo 4 continues down the path of Reach. I honestly can’t see myself playing just unranked playlist, there is absolutely nothing in it for me, I don’t care about how many spartan points or armor unlocks I earn, I care about reaching that 50 in multiple playlist or doing my best with a solid team who actually wear headsets.
>
> If Halo 4 doesn’t include skill levels, my pickup line I use on the ladies will no longer be valid.

I completely agree, social matchmaking is very unbalanced the only real competitive playlists are MLG/Arena.

That feeling of “If we lose, my rank goes down” is exhilarating! It’s an amazing feeling, and coming back from a game where you might lose is way more clutch and enjoyable when you are rewarded greatly for it.

Without a numerical 1-50 or 1-whatever system, that drive is gone. That feeling of “If we lose, something bad happens” or “If we win, I might go up a level!” does not exist anymore and as much as losing made me mad, at least it made me feel something.

I do not even care if I lose a game on Reach, because it doesn’t mean anything. If I lose, big deal, I still get my worthless credits. I don’t gain anything from winning either, so why should I try to win? Why should I lead my team or anything for that reason when I have no incentive to win? Regardless, I get my credits so my competitive drive is gone. That feeling of reward and punishment for winning and losing is just gone and it’s very saddening.

I don’t want to HAVE to play MLG or Arena just to get some competitive gameplay out. I want to be able to face good people, great people, people who will stomp me and force me to play better in all playlists. Bringing back a ranked/social setting is just what I consider logical if you wish to please both casual and competitive players.

10

Bump for more input, I know people have more to say than this.

Instead of bashing each other (which hasn’t happened yet, thankfully due to more mature forum users here), we should all be providing some kind of constructive criticism to the current system so that we can grab some attention from 343 and let our worries be known.

Yes, yes, my thread is far from the first, but to be fair this specific idea does technically originate form before these forums existed here so… ;]

Edited by Moderator - Please do not bump threads.

11

> Bump for more input, I know people have more to say than this.
>
> Instead of bashing each other (which hasn’t happened yet, thankfully due to more mature forum users here), we should all be providing some kind of constructive criticism to the current system so that we can grab some attention from 343 and let our worries be known.
>
> Yes, yes, my thread is far from the first, but to be fair this specific idea does technically originate form before these forums existed here so… ;]

People don’t seem to care about “solutions”. It seems all they care about is the complaining of the “problems”.

12

I thought this thread had a good view on being hopeful of the return of the ranking system: http://halo.xbox.com/Forums/yaf_postst79480_Why-1-50-May-Return.aspx

It’s a different reason to think about why it might come back.

They honestly need to bring it back, Reach was the worst Halo in my opinion but it could have been worse then it was. I would probably still be playing it actively if it had a 1-50 ranking system because I enjoyed it enough to at least be okay with playing it sometimes, but I just didn’t have a reason to keep coming back, it had no motivation. If they had included it I, and many others would probably still be playing because it would have given a much more addicting and motivating experience to work for rather then just ranking up based on how many matches you play.

If it doesn’t come back I fear H4 will have a similar result with the online population and I doubt my playing habits will be any different from Reach, hell I’ve still been playing Halo 3 this whole time.

13

I can understand if you dislike the Arena “forcing” you to play a set number of games to earn a rank, but is not that ultimately the best solution?
Even if you got a 50 in Halo 3 two weeks after release, you might not get one 6 months after release since people had upped their skills and more were playing ranked. Arena gives you a reason to keep playing, it lets you prove that the rank you had was not luck, or boost, but well earned (unlike 1-50).
Sure, having to play a set number of games each month/day is boring, but the game must measure you somehow, and to do that you’ll have to play many games. The easiest way to prevent cheating/boosting is to force you to play many different times and days, although I agree that Arena might been overly harsh.

My suggestion would be a mix, 1-50 is a better ranking system since it allows for more ranks, and hence it’s easier to get a new rank, or get “stuck” at the appropriate rank, not somewhere in-between (silver-gold).
Resetting your rank every now and then encourages people to play (not boost) if they want to keep their rank, and only the truly best can keep a high rank. But, instead of forcing you to play X games over Y days, lets just say that you’ll have to play a set number (20, 30?) games, whenever you want and as many in one day as you like, to get a rank. IF you don’t play for a long time, your rank gets lower over time, and you can lay again to “buff” it.
The highest rank achieved in any ranked playlist should be visible in any ranked playlist as well as “current” rank for that playlist, while neither a visible in social since they don’t matter, same goes for “social”/exp/cR rank in ranked.
If you got a 50 you should be allowed to keep it as a fond memory, but if you bought it, you’ll have a “true” rank next to it, so people know what you really play like too.
Hence a good player with a 50 in snipers would have a 50 as all time highest, and also his current rank in said playlist (say a 45 in lone wolf) and hence a General Grade 4 or what ever the ranks are. In social however, that player might just be a brigadier grade III and is shown as such.

14

Why hasn’t this thread have more views. This is a perfect solution! Ranked, Social and Arena! I think arena though should be more individual oriented like the first few seasons. Compared to ranked where it’s all team oriented

15

> Why hasn’t this thread have more views. This is a perfect solution! Ranked, Social and Arena! I think arena though should be more individual oriented like the first few seasons. Compared to ranked where it’s all team oriented

Probably because it’s only been up a few hours, but when I was an active member of the bungie forums I actively responded and kept my threads alive for discussion (within reason, of course. If nobody is talking about it, I try not to do shameful bumps over and over to force discussion)

Hopefully the community will provide some input into these theories, I truly believe these are sound solutions to everyones worry and I really wish 343 would, or could, comment on WHY they feel the need to exclude a numerical system if there is no chance for one.

I believe in the very least, we deserve an explanation to the exclusion of the system (should H4 come and ship with no numerical system, not looking for answers right now of course when we don’t know a whole lot about the game quite yet)

16

Well keep posting threads like these, I know there’s been a lot out there. hopefully 343 will see them. I don’t know if I can stand another Reach EXP based system, plus Arena is very flawed in this game. I think 343 will shy away from this unfortunately due to cheaters and boosters. That’s another thing that comes to mind, when it comes to ranked playlists. You have to deal with loopholes, cheaters and boosters. I hope 343 isn’t too lazy and just makes an experience based system which is pointless to play.

17

> Well keep posting threads like these, I know there’s been a lot out there. hopefully 343 will see them. I don’t know if I can stand another Reach EXP based system, plus Arena is very flawed in this game. I think 343 will shy away from this unfortunately due to cheaters and boosters. That’s another thing that comes to mind, when it comes to ranked playlists. You have to deal with loopholes, cheaters and boosters. I hope 343 isn’t too lazy and just makes an experience based system which is pointless to play.

This is one thing in particular that I just despise, and it’s that so many people are discouraged from a numerical system because they think it will bring cheating with it.

This is simply not the case, in all of my time in Halo: Reach, I have yet to see a single booster or so called “hacker/standbyer.” The anti-cheat system implemented has come so far, and if you remember H2’s golden days you remember how bad boosting/modding was! That doesn’t exist anymore! People aren’t cheating for ranks as much as people seem to think, not because they don’t want to, but because they can’t.

People who are cheating are quickly caught nowadays and promptly banned/reset. Most claims of cheating are false and made by people who are just too arrogant to accept a legitimate defeat by better players.

I can’t imagine that even if they did bring back the numerical ranking systems, that cheating would just flock back because of that. This is a poor excuse to exclude a solid system and a very easy way to anger your competitive fans.

And just to put a stopper in for all of those “But people would buy/sell their 50’s!”, to which I say “So -Yoinking!- what?” The players getting these account to 50 are usually skilled and able to level a fresh account (given they aren’t terribad at the game) to 50 in just a few weeks (This is going by the H3 standard, long outdated and not even applicable in the reach system)

So what if they were to sell a 50 they earned legitimately and make a profit off of being good at the game? Good for them. And so what if somebody bought their 50? That rank will quickly fall and you can tell how bad they are by the way they play. Why do you care whether or not the 50 is real if it was attained through legit manners? Seeing through a fake 50 is as easy as playing against or with them. Make your own judgment call.

18

> > Well keep posting threads like these, I know there’s been a lot out there. hopefully 343 will see them. I don’t know if I can stand another Reach EXP based system, plus Arena is very flawed in this game. I think 343 will shy away from this unfortunately due to cheaters and boosters. That’s another thing that comes to mind, when it comes to ranked playlists. You have to deal with loopholes, cheaters and boosters. I hope 343 isn’t too lazy and just makes an experience based system which is pointless to play.
>
> This is one thing in particular that I just despise, and it’s that so many people are discouraged from a numerical system because they think it will bring cheating with it.
>
> This is simply not the case, in all of my time in Halo: Reach, I have yet to see a single booster or so called “hacker/standbyer.” The anti-cheat system implemented has come so far, and if you remember H2’s golden days you remember how bad boosting/modding was! That doesn’t exist anymore! People aren’t cheating for ranks as much as people seem to think, not because they don’t want to, but because they can’t.
>
> People who are cheating are quickly caught nowadays and promptly banned/reset. Most claims of cheating are false and made by people who are just too arrogant to accept a legitimate defeat by better players.
>
> I can’t imagine that even if they did bring back the numerical ranking systems, that cheating would just flock back because of that. This is a poor excuse to exclude a solid system and a very easy way to anger your competitive fans.
>
> And just to put a stopper in for all of those “But people would buy/sell their 50’s!”, to which I say “So f*kin what?” The players getting these account to 50 are usually skilled and able to level a fresh account (given they aren’t terribad at the game) to 50 in just a few weeks (This is going by the H3 standard, long outdated and not even applicable in the reach system)
>
> So what if they were to sell a 50 they earned legitimately and make a profit off of being good at the game? Good for them. And so what if somebody bought their 50? That rank will quickly fall and you can tell how bad they are by the way they play. Why do you care whether or not the 50 is real if it was attained through legit manners? Seeing through a fake 50 is as easy as playing against or with them. Make your own judgment call.

While I support a ranking system, your post lacks intelligence. It will bring boat loads of cheating. It always has and will continue to do so. You comparing Reach to Halo4 is like comparing apples to oranges. How about comparing Halo4 to Halo3 since it actually has a ranking system?

Assuming your a top tier player in that game, you will know all about the cheating that goes on in that game. MLG 45 high has host booters. Lone Wolves 40 high has language boosters or pink changing party chat boosters. And ranked playlists brings about derankers to all playlists. Halo3 is flooded with them. People with over 10k games played and the system continues to let them by. 343i would have to do a lot of work to combat all these scenarios of cheating.

Selling accounts is prohibited from Microsoft’s term of agreement. You supporting it here should earn you a ban.

19

Bring back the Halo 2 ranks! I want to get my horns again!

20

> > > Well keep posting threads like these, I know there’s been a lot out there. hopefully 343 will see them. I don’t know if I can stand another Reach EXP based system, plus Arena is very flawed in this game. I think 343 will shy away from this unfortunately due to cheaters and boosters. That’s another thing that comes to mind, when it comes to ranked playlists. You have to deal with loopholes, cheaters and boosters. I hope 343 isn’t too lazy and just makes an experience based system which is pointless to play.
> >
> > This is one thing in particular that I just despise, and it’s that so many people are discouraged from a numerical system because they think it will bring cheating with it.
> >
> > This is simply not the case, in all of my time in Halo: Reach, I have yet to see a single booster or so called “hacker/standbyer.” The anti-cheat system implemented has come so far, and if you remember H2’s golden days you remember how bad boosting/modding was! That doesn’t exist anymore! People aren’t cheating for ranks as much as people seem to think, not because they don’t want to, but because they can’t.
> >
> > People who are cheating are quickly caught nowadays and promptly banned/reset. Most claims of cheating are false and made by people who are just too arrogant to accept a legitimate defeat by better players.
> >
> > I can’t imagine that even if they did bring back the numerical ranking systems, that cheating would just flock back because of that. This is a poor excuse to exclude a solid system and a very easy way to anger your competitive fans.
> >
> > And just to put a stopper in for all of those “But people would buy/sell their 50’s!”, to which I say “So f*kin what?” The players getting these account to 50 are usually skilled and able to level a fresh account (given they aren’t terribad at the game) to 50 in just a few weeks (This is going by the H3 standard, long outdated and not even applicable in the reach system)
> >
> > So what if they were to sell a 50 they earned legitimately and make a profit off of being good at the game? Good for them. And so what if somebody bought their 50? That rank will quickly fall and you can tell how bad they are by the way they play. Why do you care whether or not the 50 is real if it was attained through legit manners? Seeing through a fake 50 is as easy as playing against or with them. Make your own judgment call.
>
> While I support a ranking system, your post lacks intelligence. It will bring boat loads of cheating. It always has and will continue to do so. You comparing Reach to Halo4 is like comparing apples to oranges. How about comparing Halo4 to Halo3 since it actually has a ranking system?
>
> Assuming your a top tier player in that game, you will know all about the cheating that goes on in that game. MLG 45 high has host booters. Lone Wolves 40 high has language boosters or pink changing party chat boosters. And ranked playlists brings about derankers to all playlists. Halo3 is flooded with them. People with over 10k games played and the system continues to let them by. 343i would have to do a lot of work to combat all these scenarios of cheating.
>
> Selling accounts is prohibited from Microsoft’s term of agreement. You supporting it here should earn you a ban.

Insulting my intelligence whilst providing none of your own is a pretty baseless argument, don’tcha think?

If you had read the whole post, you’d know I am not just comparing Reach, but all of the multiplayer titles. I’ve taken ideas from both Halo 2 and Halo 3 AND Reach all for the sake of trying to come up with a complimentary system for Halo 4.

Please, if you would, can you explain to me how you just KNOW it will bring cheaters in by the “boat loads”? Is the evidence from Halo 3 all you have? Because I don’t remember saying there was no boosting or cheating in H3. I was a 50, I remember very clearly the cheating that went on at the higher levels. I also went on to say, that I have yet to see cheating of any kind whilst playing Reach and that anyone who has done some sort of credit “glitch” or boosting is quickly caught and dealt with.

You are talking about an outdated game with an outdated banhammer, and it seems as though you didn’t read my OP clearly enough to understand my intentions. Halo 4’s anti-cheat system can only improve off of Reach’s fabulous system, and as such I don’t see why you can even stand by your argument of “a numerical system will FO SHO bring cheaters, I KNOW it.”

Also, nowhere in my posts am I “supporting” it, I am completely apathetic to it. I don’t care, could you not discern that from the post itself where I say “So -Yoinking!- what?”

Account sellers will be caught just as well as any other form of cheating, and nowhere in my posting am I supporting this type of behavior. Now, how about you step down off of that high horse and join us for an intelligent debate?