Would you like some fries with your salt?

*obvious sarcasm is obviousThis is really starting to bug me on this forum thread. Half the threads I’ve seen over the past few day have been about nerfing this thing or that thing.
People who I haven’t seen in 6 months are on here complaining about random crap. Here’s my rant about this that I pulled from another thread;
This is a prime example of people not caring to learn the game and would rather 343 nerf it to the point where any leader but their leader is crap. Up til yesterday I was on an 11 game losing streak, but I’ll be the first to say it’s probably my fault and that I shouldn’t have let that 2 scarab 13 engineer bum rush me. (that hasn’t happened to the best of my memory)
Instead of complaining that something is so bloody overpowered LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME. They cannot bum rush you if you scout and suitably prepare for it. You know what as well? Everyone I’ve called out like this over the past three days has not responded. You know what that makes me believe? I’m right. If I wasnt, they would have tried to defend themselves in some way, but they didn’t and haven’t. How 'bout instead of screaming nerf at everything you view as unfair, build some wolverines, nightinggales, reavers, hunters, or anything that can combat the threat. Don’t yell at 343 because all they’re gonna do is overreact and overcompensate. That’s all they know how to do, so I suggest you pull up the big boy pants, stop crying about OP leaders when you lose to someone better then you, and learn how to play the friggin game.
End rant.
Rant 2: Rant Harder.
Most of these “problems” that people are complaining about are so easily fixed that it boggles my mind how people find ways to not try anything. There was a point in a different thread about how freeze shouldn’t stop base production. The first thing that went through my head is “are you insane? Do you not understand basic laws of physics?” If I were to freeze you solid while you were putting a bike together, would you still be working on it? *What!? No!? It’s almost as if you can’t move on account of being made immobile! Unbelievable, right? I’d think you’d be able to keep working.
Like I said in that outer paragraph, you need to let 343 do what they need to do to balance the game. An interesting point, I know, but here me out. They need to realize (like blizzard has) what is and isn’t broken. Serina is not OP. She is not broken. All that needs to happen is the anti base drop range be increased. All of her stuff is purposely put there because that’s how you play her. Instead of blaming “bad game design” (granted iceberg exploit was an oversight) blame yourself for letting it happen. You need to expect it to happen. Example; in dark souls Ornstein and Smough is considered one of the toughest boss fight in the game. Everyone agrees that they suck butt, but guess what? If you even marginally prepare, and know ahead of time what you’ll be fighting, then that boss fight is probably one of the easiest in the game. Lesson; learn to expect something, and you’ll drastically increase your chance of success against it, but if you believe that something is impossible to beat and that you’ll never be able to, you never will.
I mean all of this is too late. If 343 follows the track record it’s set, then Forge will get nerfed into the ground, Serina will be tossed in the trash, Cutter will be buffed into ridiculousness, Jerome will lead the leaderboards, Isabel will be continue to be ignored, the Banished will slowly climb back, and the meta will basically return to what it was before the patch.

Edit; fact check, I’ve won three games in a row.

Why don’t you justify 5 good passives for a teir 2 leader ability that does the following upgrades both the hellbringers and kodiaks, a defensive passive for the turrets and a form of map control that has an receive area (a sniper will freeze before it gets to the node)

Do we really need yet another “stop complaining/calling for nerfs” thread?

Mods?

> 2533274860730132;2:
> Why don’t you justify 5 good passives for a teir 2 leader ability that does the following upgrades both the hellbringers and kodiaks, a defensive passive for the turrets and a form of map control that has an receive area (a sniper will freeze before it gets to the node)

I don’t really care for the siege turrets or Kodiak because I don’t use them often, or almost at all. She’s built to have good defense. That’s why she has chill turrets. With the aura and shield for cryo troopers, the shield itself is negligible and the aura just makes sense logically for what it is. If I put you next to a tank of what is probably liquid nitrogen or some other liquid gas, and have several other tanks that are empty, all unlabled, you could tell me pretty decisively which tank is full of the fluid. If I then weaponized that tank it makes even more sense that they have some sort of aura because that’s how thermo dynamics works. For the nodes, have another guy on standby, dude. As I said, be prepared. While a single unit will freeze before it can cap, if you have more then one, the effect is lessened if not nullified. On that note, what about Atriox’s node mines? Are you gonna tell me they aren’t OP if Serina’s ice is? They deal straight damage, so they should be more OP right? I mean, it makes sense, doesn’t it? If snipers freeze before it can reach, don’t use snipers? I mean, they aren’t the only infantry unit that exist, and heroes will definitely be able to cap. I’ve had first hand experience of that with the Honor Guard.

> 2533274821521504;3:
> Do we really need yet another “stop complaining/calling for nerfs” thread?
>
> Mods?

Probably not, but I kind of just got fed up with all the people saying to nerf absolutely everything. If Viper or some other mod wants to lock it they can. I’ve said what I had to say.

people like to whine

> 2533274919601441;5:
> > 2533274821521504;3:
> > Do we really need yet another “stop complaining/calling for nerfs” thread?
> >
> > Mods?
>
> Probably not, but I kind of just got fed up with all the people saying to nerf absolutely everything. If Viper or some other mod wants to lock it they can. I’ve said what I had to say.

What nerfs do you personally believe are uncalled for? Because right now I’m seeing calls to nerf Serina and Forge which I believe are overwhelmingly backed with evidence.

SO. Let me get this straight.

You’re telling players, many of whom are consistently in the top 100, that their balance concerns are invalid, and we need to “learn to play the game”?

Right. Because I’m sure that near unanimyty between the highest level players in the game on the forge warthog and serina doesn’t point to anything being wrong. We just need to get better. My bad.

> 2533274924073601;8:
> SO. Let me get this straight.
>
> You’re telling players, many of whom are consistently in the top 100, that their balance concerns are invalid, and we need to “learn to play the game”?
>
> Right. Because I’m sure that name unanimyty between the highest level players in the game doesn’t point to anything being wrong. We just need to get better. My bad.

No, I’m saying that people whose names I’ve never seen before in the forum (which is good, more people getting involved) are talking about nerfing everything they see as OP or broken.

> 2533274919601441;9:
> > 2533274924073601;8:
> > SO. Let me get this straight.
> >
> > You’re telling players, many of whom are consistently in the top 100, that their balance concerns are invalid, and we need to “learn to play the game”?
> >
> > Right. Because I’m sure that name unanimyty between the highest level players in the game doesn’t point to anything being wrong. We just need to get better. My bad.
>
> No, I’m saying that people whose names I’ve never seen before in the forum (which is good, more people getting involved) are talking about nerfing everything they see as OP or broken.

That’s fair, I suppose. But Both Serina and Forge absolutely need to be addressed; there are some very valid complaints being leveled against them.

Outside of those two, I actually don’t think anything really needs a nerf. If anything, certain units need buffs.

> 2533274821521504;7:
> > 2533274919601441;5:
> > > 2533274821521504;3:
> > > Do we really need yet another “stop complaining/calling for nerfs” thread?
> > >
> > > Mods?
> >
> > Probably not, but I kind of just got fed up with all the people saying to nerf absolutely everything. If Viper or some other mod wants to lock it they can. I’ve said what I had to say.
>
> What nerfs do you personally believe are uncalled for? Because right now I’m seeing calls to nerf Serina and Forge which I believe are overwhelmingly backed with evidence.

It’s not that I don’t think nerfs are uncalled for. It’s that with quite a few people complaining I’m afraid 343 is going to bring down the nerf hammer hard just to appease the crowd. I’m all for reworking Serina, and having experienced Forgehog’s anvil round first hand, I think it needs a little bit of reworking. In fact, I’ll be the first to say that her cryotech advances should at least be split in someway. Perhaps auras and shields for cryo troopers and turret auras in the first point, everything else in the second. The problem is 343 doesn’t seem to know how to tap a nail in instead of flattening it to the board if Cutter is any indication.

> 2533274924073601;10:
> > 2533274919601441;9:
> > > 2533274924073601;8:
> > > SO. Let me get this straight.
> > >
> > > You’re telling players, many of whom are consistently in the top 100, that their balance concerns are invalid, and we need to “learn to play the game”?
> > >
> > > Right. Because I’m sure that name unanimyty between the highest level players in the game doesn’t point to anything being wrong. We just need to get better. My bad.
> >
> > No, I’m saying that people whose names I’ve never seen before in the forum (which is good, more people getting involved) are talking about nerfing everything they see as OP or broken.
>
> That’s fair, I suppose. But Both Serina and Forge absolutely need to be addressed; there are some very valid complaints being leveled against them.
>
> Outside of those two, I actually don’t think anything really needs a nerf. If anything, certain units need buffs.

See above statement to Blaky.

I should say that the title is more aimed at me then anyone else. If you do feel antagonized by it, I apologize.

> 2533274919601441;11:
> > 2533274821521504;7:
> > > 2533274919601441;5:
> > > > 2533274821521504;3:
> > > > Do we really need yet another “stop complaining/calling for nerfs” thread?
> > > >
> > > > Mods?
> > >
> > > …
>
> It’s not that I don’t think nerfs are uncalled for. It’s that with quite a few people complaining I’m afraid 343 is going to bring down the nerf hammer hard just to appease the crowd.
>
> The problem is 343 doesn’t seem to know how to tap a nail in instead of flattening it to the board if Cutter is any indication.

With recent patches we can conclude this is just not the case.

Feedback is really important, but they got a lot a data, I mentioned this before, I use their API and the amount of data they handle is outstanding, and I’m sure the API does not reveal all the data. Their Business Intelligence must be top notch, believe it or not, this is common practice in AAA games.

They might have slipped a few times but overall their balancing has been getting both safer and better. Anvil Round is the exception of course, and that single slip broke the game.

Then we have Serina, it’s a complete new leader and testing a leader is not the same as having hundreds or thousands of people playing and looking for exploits. This is a bit trickier, introducing an absolute balanced leader is a very difficult task. I think the only ones have been Colony and Arbiter, both very balanced leaders overall.

It’s common for people to voice their frustration when the game is broken. And then there’s a few times when people come and complain about triple super unit rushes or mass blisterback and random stuff like that.

What we’ve to look out for is the activity, when people make random claims then most people disagree and provide insight on how to counter.

When the complain is legit you’ll find a big chunk of the community agreeing. And that’s a good indication that something is broken or overpowered.

> 2533274821521504;14:
> > 2533274919601441;11:
> > > 2533274821521504;7:
> > > > 2533274919601441;5:
> > > > > 2533274821521504;3:
> > > > > Do we really need yet another “stop complaining/calling for nerfs” thread?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mods?
> > > >
> > > > …
> >
> > It’s not that I don’t think nerfs are uncalled for. It’s that with quite a few people complaining I’m afraid 343 is going to bring down the nerf hammer hard just to appease the crowd.
> >
> > The problem is 343 doesn’t seem to know how to tap a nail in instead of flattening it to the board if Cutter is any indication.
>
> With recent patches we can’t conclude this is just not the case.
>
> Feedback is really important, but they got a lot a data, I mentioned this before, I use their API and the amount of data they handle is outstanding, and I’m sure the API does not reveal all the data. Their Business Intelligence must be top notch, believe it or not, this is common practice in AAA games.
>
> They might have slipped a few times but overall their balancing has been getting both safer and better. Anvil Round is the exception of course, and that single slip broke the game.
>
> Then we have Serina, it’s a complete new leader and testing a leader is not the same as having hundreds or thousands of people playing and looking for exploits. This is a bit trickier, introducing an absolute balanced leader is a very difficult task. I think the only ones have been Colony and Arbiter, both very balanced leaders overall.
>
> It’s common for people to voice their frustration when the game is broken. And then there’s a few times when people come and complain about triple super unit rushes or mass blisterback and random stuff like that.
>
> What we’ve to look out for is the activity, when people make random claims then most people disagree and provide insight on how to counter.
>
> When the complain is legit you’ll find a big chunk of the community agreeing. And that’s a good indication that something is broken or overpowered.

I agree, and I certainly hope that my optimistic realist future doesn’t happen. I find it alarming because I could count the number of nerf cutter threads, that I saw, on both hands, and they gave him a nerf that he didn’t need. So if I see five new nerf Serina threads every day it becomes rather alarming rather quickly. I think what really needs to be done is nerfing the iceberg or fixing the base drop radius to be larger. We can let heavy nerfs come if the complaints continue after that.

While I do believe you are correct in some regards, threads complaining about complaining are ultimately unnecessary so I will be locking this. I appreciate your concern for the well-being of the game but there are more constructive ways to go about this. I have seen a lot of “nerf this, nerf that” threads as of late, but I think that’s to be expected. Especially with a mechanic such as cryo.