Everyone knows the elites. The primary enemies of halo CE, reach, and half of halo 2. Some people play as them, some people hate seeing them in Multiplayer, and some people write disturbing fanfiction about them.
But one undeniable fact is that the elites are responsible of the deaths of not hundreds, not thousands, not even millions, but BILLIONS of humans, both military and civilian (mostly civilian). And their justification for a while was “honor” and a religious belief that proved to be false.
While they did switch sides in the end, and ultimately help humanity win the war, the fact remains that they are quite literally the biggest and worst genocidal enemies humanity has ever faced. So know all of this, would YOU forgive them? Would YOU simply let the billions dead slide?
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> Would YOU forgive them? Would YOU simply let the billions dead slide?
Do you have a choice?
Despite decreased effectiveness in their post-Covenant days and their civil wars, the Sanghelli are still more than capable of extincting the entire human race, especially now that they know where Earth is.
I would be in favor of destroying their entire military, or at least forcing their unconditional surrender, at the earliest opportunity. Not only did their entire military caste almost universally support a war of extinction against humanity but a large portion of it still wanted to continue that war even after the fall of the covenant. It will take too many generations for Sangheili culture to accept a strong humanity, which means they shroud be rendered entirely toothless to protect the human race.
This is a great question, and is the sort of thing I go to the universe section hoping to find.
Honestly, probably not. Especially if close family or friends of mine were killed during the war, it would be very, very hard to let that kind of thing go. Perhaps if I had the chance to directly interact with some SoS, it would be a bit easier, though.
If I’m correct in assuming that ONI blames the Covenant for the glassing of Africa and it’s somewhat public knowledge that the Elites helped save us all, I think I could.
Yeah, I’d forgive them. They were being manipulated to believe humans were unholy blasphemers, a product of religious dogma Elites have learned since birth over many centuries. A lot of blame lies with Truth, and he’s already dead. Not to say they don’t share blame, of course. And retribution for what the Elites have done seems like a bad idea, in any case. Not to mention there’s probably many Elites that never fought humans. And there are other reasons I’d forgive them besides that.
> 2533274822366750;10:
> Would you forgive people from the Middle East for Al-Qaeda’s actions?
>
> Would you forgive Germans for the -Yoink!-’s actions?
>
> Would you forgive Slavic peoples for the Soviet Union’s actions?
>
> Would you forgive White American’s for the Federal government almost killing off the Native American’s?
>
> These questions are all the same as: Would you forgive the Sangheili for the Covenant’s actions?
The issue with that argument was all of those atrocities (which wouldn’t be forgiven) were commuted by humans. What the elites did was attempt to wipe out every human alive.
> 2533274857398125;11:
> > 2533274822366750;10:
> > Would you forgive people from the Middle East for Al-Qaeda’s actions?
> >
> > Would you forgive Germans for the -Yoink!-’s actions?
> >
> > Would you forgive Slavic peoples for the Soviet Union’s actions?
> >
> > Would you forgive White American’s for the Federal government almost killing off the Native American’s?
> >
> > These questions are all the same as: Would you forgive the Sangheili for the Covenant’s actions?
>
>
> The issue with that argument was all of those atrocities (which wouldn’t be forgiven) were commuted by humans. What the elites did was attempt to wipe out every human alive.
But thats not the point, its the idea that is being argued here. Both sides to this idea are very convincing and it only takes someone with a forgiving heart to see past it all.
I for one would because they are willing to set aside their animosity towards us for something greater; ideally anyway. Nothings perfect.
There’s not a chance in God’s cruel kingdom that I would forgive them. The blood of billions is on their hands, I don’t care if they were manipulated or not.
I dislike questions like these. I think they’re very dumb. They are loaded with an unjustifiable and illogical premise that basically assumes some kind of culpability between people due to arbitrary characteristics like race, skin color, ethnicity and in this case, species.
Would I forgive the Sangheili? What does this even mean? Why is it the Sangheili who need to be forgiven, and not the military-industrial regime and the Elites that actually did the killing? That would sensible, no? Why are we selecting species as the determinant for blame when we could easily just use nationality and gib EVERY member of the Covenant for being Covenant citizens; citizens of a regime that carried out an atrocity? It’s completely arbitrary.
Asking whether their species should be forgiven makes no sense because it involves forgiving people who can’t be forgiven as they haven’t done anything wrong, like asking whether a 10 year old Sangheili should be forgiven for what his father did over a decade ago. Species doesn’t transfer blame anymore than red hair does. I don’t understand how being a Sangheili means that you are guilty of the human-Covenant war. The Sangheili are a species, and as such forgiving them makes no sense.
No one got the point of Vex’s post:
> Would you forgive people from the Middle East for Al-Qaeda’s actions?
> Would you forgive Germans for the -Yoink!-’s actions?
> Would you forgive Slavic peoples for the Soviet Union’s actions?
> Would you forgive White American’s for the Federal government almost killing off the Native American’s?
>
> These questions are all the same as: Would you forgive the Sangheili for the Covenant’s actions?
The things on the right hand side are different from the things on the left. It’s not even that some are extreme versions of the bigger thing, but they are completely different entities that are connected only by nationality or race. Apples and oranges. Trying to attach blame between them is nonsensical.
> 2533274835068816;15:
> I dislike questions like these. I think they’re very dumb. They are loaded with an unjustifiable and illogical premise that basically assumes some kind of culpability between people due to arbitrary characteristics like race, skin color, ethnicity and in this case, species.
>
> Would I forgive the Sangheili? What does this even mean? Why is it the Sangheili who need to be forgiven, and not the military-industrial regime and the Elites that actually did the killing? That would sensible, no? Why are we selecting species as the determinant for blame when we could easily just use nationality and gib EVERY member of the Covenant for being Covenant citizens; citizens of a regime that carried out an atrocity? It’s completely arbitrary.
>
> Asking whether their species should be forgiven makes no sense because it involves forgiving people who can’t be forgiven as they haven’t done anything wrong, like asking whether a 10 year old Sangheili should be forgiven for what his father did over a decade ago. Species doesn’t transfer blame anymore than red hair does. I don’t understand how being a Sangheili means that you are guilty of the human-Covenant war. The Sangheili are a species, and as such forgiving them makes no sense.
>
> No one got the point of Vex’s post:
>
>
>
>
> > Would you forgive people from the Middle East for Al-Qaeda’s actions?
> > Would you forgive Germans for the -Yoink!-’s actions?
> > Would you forgive Slavic peoples for the Soviet Union’s actions?
> > Would you forgive White American’s for the Federal government almost killing off the Native American’s?
> >
> > These questions are all the same as: Would you forgive the Sangheili for the Covenant’s actions?
>
>
> The things on the right hand side are different from the things on the left. It’s not even that some are extreme versions of the bigger thing, but they are completely different entities that are connected only by nationality or race. Apples and oranges. Trying to attach blame between them is nonsensical.
‘Innocent’ Sanghelli stood by while their brothers and sisters murdered billions. Unless they were actively fighting for their people to stop the carnage they have just as much blood on their hands, and should not be forgiven.
Being realistic, no I wouldn’t. If I lived in the Halo universe, I would only know them as genocidal aliens who slaughtered billions of men, women, and children.
> 2535429946522152;16:
> > 2533274835068816;15:
> > I dislike questions like these. I think they’re very dumb. They are loaded with an unjustifiable and illogical premise that basically assumes some kind of culpability between people due to arbitrary characteristics like race, skin color, ethnicity and in this case, species.
> >
> > Would I forgive the Sangheili? What does this even mean? Why is it the Sangheili who need to be forgiven, and not the military-industrial regime and the Elites that actually did the killing? That would sensible, no? Why are we selecting species as the determinant for blame when we could easily just use nationality and gib EVERY member of the Covenant for being Covenant citizens; citizens of a regime that carried out an atrocity? It’s completely arbitrary.
> >
> > Asking whether their species should be forgiven makes no sense because it involves forgiving people who can’t be forgiven as they haven’t done anything wrong, like asking whether a 10 year old Sangheili should be forgiven for what his father did over a decade ago. Species doesn’t transfer blame anymore than red hair does. I don’t understand how being a Sangheili means that you are guilty of the human-Covenant war. The Sangheili are a species, and as such forgiving them makes no sense.
> >
> > No one got the point of Vex’s post:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Would you forgive people from the Middle East for Al-Qaeda’s actions?
> > > Would you forgive Germans for the -Yoink!-’s actions?
> > > Would you forgive Slavic peoples for the Soviet Union’s actions?
> > > Would you forgive White American’s for the Federal government almost killing off the Native American’s?
> > >
> > > These questions are all the same as: Would you forgive the Sangheili for the Covenant’s actions?
> >
> >
> > The things on the right hand side are different from the things on the left. It’s not even that some are extreme versions of the bigger thing, but they are completely different entities that are connected only by nationality or race. Apples and oranges. Trying to attach blame between them is nonsensical.
>
>
> ‘Innocent’ Sanghelli stood by while their brothers and sisters murdered billions. Unless they were actively fighting for their people to stop the carnage they have just as much blood on their hands, and should not be forgiven.
No, that isn’t how culpability works and inaction is not a crime outside of contractual, parental or voluntary obligations.
However do you have any examples where entire ethnic groups were convicted of the same crimes as political/military leaders through “inaction”? I’d appreciate some examples and a full explanation of how they were able to justify that. The last time powers attempted a Carthaginian peace, it fed the rise of National Socialism in post-WWI Europe, so it’s not like there’s even any practical incentive for this kind of mindset either.
To expect any Sangheili to actively fight a mass murdering fanatical regime in order to avoid culpability for killings that other people are agreeing to do (by choosing to be part of the Covenant military) is completely unrealistic. It might be worth considering that Sangheili could refuse military service in protest of the war, but that’s all they can do.
Also, are we going to ignore the arbitrary distinction between species and Covenant nationality? Are we going to ignore the logical issue in “not forgiving” the 10 year old Sangheili who was not even consciously aware of what was happening when he/she was 2 years old at the time?
Tough one. For one way, I couldn’t forgive them. Because they killed thousands of us and glassed our colonies. But for another, they’re beings that live estrictly by honor, and if they would say that they’re sorry for what they’ve done, then I would.
I forgive them because it is a game. But if it were real, then probably not.
Even though I love the Arbiter, it would be hard to accept that all the damage he caused can be forgiven because of his more recent good acts and because his species were somewhat forced/tricked into the war.
Maybe, if I met a Sangheili I might change my mind…