Would James Ackerson have been arrested post-war?

Community Halo Universe
1

This thought came into my head when I was reading through about Halsey’s arresting post-Human-Covenant War, and was wondering, do you guys think that James Ackerson would’ve been arrested post-war too for his actions in the S-III program, similarly to Halsey’s actions with the S-II program, albeit with some differences.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the S-IIIs were made because I love their limited lore, but similarly to how Halsey was arrested for her involvement within the S-II program, would Ackerson suffer the fate.

I have a few reasons for and against this, so I’ll leave them here to start the debate.

REASONS FOR HIS ARREST;

  • He took children and made them into Spartans, a similar concept to the S-IIs, - He ill-equipped them to fight against the Covenant essentially. - He had killed around 598 Spartan-IIIs across the span of two missions and calling them successes without worry.REASONS AGAINST HIS ARREST;

  • The children who were conscripted into the program were orphaned, and also gave their consent as they were vengeful - They were not kidnapped alike to the S-IIs - This third one is a bit of a stretch per say, but if it weren’t for the IIIs and their high priority missions they undertake, then Humanity may have already gone extinct.But I want to hear your thoughts and opinions on this below as well as get a full discussion going. Just remember to keep it clean and friendly!

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Well, one major consideration is that any psychologist, and especially adolescent psychologists will tell you that no adolescent is capable of giving consent, especially not a war orphan. Cognition develops over time, through experience and through the development of their neural pathways; there’s literally a medical reason why you can’t make a legally binding agreement with a child.

The only arguments that remain in favor of Ackerson and Halsey are:
A) The -Yoink!- conundrum—were they just following the demands of their superiors?
B) Is it justifiable to exploit children only if you are successful?
C) Speculation that without the tactics or “weapon” utilized, the battle/war would’ve had greater consequences. (See: arguments for & against the use of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.)
D) Ackerson and Halsey are scapegoats. Both programs had the approval of the admiralty. Others like Parangosky, Hood, Keyes, etc. should all also be on trial.

These children sacrificed their lives for humanity. And I think so too should Ackerson and Halsey accept that they too made a sacrifice by paying the price for justifying the means with the end. In their own way, they are heroes. In their own way, they are villains. In different respects and to different degrees, they are both; there’s no reason they have to be one or the other, but I personally, would see that they paid for their crimes in some way.

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He had Parangosky’s full support and was Halsey’s no.2 hater (second only to Parangosky herself), given that she was still CINCONI after the war there was no way that man was going to face a single consequence for his actions. Parangosky even says in Glasslands that she was going to get him to lead the Spartan-IV project and have Halsey working under him.

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> 2533274878400915;2:
> Well, one major consideration is that any psychologist, and especially adolescent psychologists will tell you that no adolescent is capable of giving consent, especially not a war orphan. Cognition develops over time, through experience and through the development of their neural pathways; there’s literally a medical reason why you can’t make a legally binding agreement with a child.
>
> The only arguments that remain in favor of Ackerson and Halsey are:
> A) The -Yoink!- conundrum—were they just following the demands of their superiors?
> B) Is it justifiable to exploit children only if you are successful?
> C) Speculation that without the tactics or “weapon” utilized, the battle/war would’ve had greater consequences. (See: arguments for & against the use of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.)
> D) Ackerson and Halsey are scapegoats. Both programs had the approval of the admiralty. Others like Parangosky, Hood, Keyes, etc. should all also be on trial.
>
> These children sacrificed their lives for humanity. And I think so too should Ackerson and Halsey accept that they too made a sacrifice by paying the price for justifying the means with the end. In their own way, they are heroes. In their own way, they are villains. In different respects and to different degrees, they are both; there’s no reason they have to be one or the other, but I personally, would see that they paid for their crimes in some way.

Well Halsey did ultimately pay the price for her crimes spending around 3-4 years locked up. We have no idea where it was exactly, but we do know it was ONI’s custody and not the UNSC’s. I do not believe she deserves as harsh a punishment as Ackerson should’ve received considering that he was far more ruthless with his usage of his S-IIIs, seeing them as disposable in a way, which is more than certainly grim, and really undeserving for the most part. But at least some survived the war, right guys? Glad to see Ackerson have a brutal death, which in a way, brings justice.

> 2533274811368357;3:
> He had Parangosky’s full support and was Halsey’s no.2 hater (second only to Parangosky herself), given that she was still CINCONI after the war there was no way that man was going to face a single consequence for his actions. Parangosky even says in Glasslands that she was going to get him to lead the Spartan-IV project and have Halsey working under him.

Just because he had Parangosky’s support didn’t mean he wouldn’t be used as a scapegoat later, as ONI had done with Halsey.

Speaking of Halsey, do you have a source saying that Parangosky had distain for her. Serin Osman (Parangosky’s successor) I am aware dislikes Halsey as she makes it abundantly clear in many sources such as in a Halo 4 Spartan Ops cutscene, but that’s getting us sidetracked.

As for Ackerson leading the Spartan-IV project with Halsey working under him, that is one helluva recipe for disaster to say the least.

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> >
>
> Well Halsey did ultimately pay the price for her crimes spending around 3-4 years locked up.

Yeah, but 3-4 years is paltry for abducting, brainwashing and forcing children to perform violent, life-threatening labor for decades. She ruined not one, but hundreds of childrens’ chance at life, and not even to save humanity from the Covenant but to fight Insurrectionists. These aren’t just war crimes, they’re crimes against humanity.

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> > 2535468208617669;4:
> > > 2533274878400915;2:
> > >
> >
> > Well Halsey did ultimately pay the price for her crimes spending around 3-4 years locked up.
>
> Yeah, but 3-4 years is paltry for abducting, brainwashing and forcing children to perform violent, life-threatening labor for decades. She ruined not one, but hundreds of childrens’ chance at life, and not even to save humanity from the Covenant but to fight Insurrectionists. These aren’t just war crimes, they’re crimes against humanity.

But was it really her who authorised these actions. She could’ve been persuaded by ONI propaganda that it was necessary for her to do this, and she went along with it. To me she seemed to really care for all the children, and she didn’t brainwash them but rather Mendez who brainwashed them with all the drills and training. But regardless I see it as a means to an end, and can be justified. You talk about them going through life-threatening labour, but if it weren’t for them becoming Spartans and doing those drills and so forth there probably wouldn’t of been a humanity so would it matter in the end. Not necessarily. Lastly, you said hundreds of children’s lifes, but there was only 150 Spartan-II candidates, with only 75 being augmented due to the restriction on funds.

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> > > > 2533274878400915;2:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well Halsey did ultimately pay the price for her crimes spending around 3-4 years locked up.
> >
> > Yeah, but 3-4 years is paltry for abducting, brainwashing and forcing children to perform violent, life-threatening labor for decades. She ruined not one, but hundreds of childrens’ chance at life, and not even to save humanity from the Covenant but to fight Insurrectionists. These aren’t just war crimes, they’re crimes against humanity.
>
> But was it really her who authorised these actions. She could’ve been persuaded by ONI propaganda that it was necessary for her to do this, and she went along with it. To me she seemed to really care for all the children, and she didn’t brainwash them but rather Mendez who brainwashed them with all the drills and training. But regardless I see it as a means to an end, and can be justified. You talk about them going through life-threatening labour, but if it weren’t for them becoming Spartans and doing those drills and so forth there probably wouldn’t of been a humanity so would it matter in the end. Not necessarily. Lastly, you said hundreds of children’s lifes, but there was only 150 Spartan-II candidates, with only 75 being augmented due to the restriction on funds.

If you lend someone your car knowing they are going to commit murder, you are complicit to murder.

Saving humanity in particular, was an afterthought of the S-II program. It’d be like if -Yoink!- Germany killed all the Jews before a huge famine, and if they hadn’t done that, millions would’ve died—what came later doesn’t justify what came before.

All 150 lives of the children were ruined, whether they become soldiers or not. There were hundreds of children abducted, brainwashed and forced to do violent labor across the S-II and S-III program. And yes, S-IIIs were abducted. “Kid, you wanna kill the man who ran over your puppy?” “Yeah!” “Hop in my van, kid.”

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> > > 2533274878400915;5:
> > > > 2535468208617669;4:
> > > > > 2533274878400915;2:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well Halsey did ultimately pay the price for her crimes spending around 3-4 years locked up.
> > >
> > > Yeah, but 3-4 years is paltry for abducting, brainwashing and forcing children to perform violent, life-threatening labor for decades. She ruined not one, but hundreds of childrens’ chance at life, and not even to save humanity from the Covenant but to fight Insurrectionists. These aren’t just war crimes, they’re crimes against humanity.
> >
> > But was it really her who authorised these actions. She could’ve been persuaded by ONI propaganda that it was necessary for her to do this, and she went along with it. To me she seemed to really care for all the children, and she didn’t brainwash them but rather Mendez who brainwashed them with all the drills and training. But regardless I see it as a means to an end, and can be justified. You talk about them going through life-threatening labour, but if it weren’t for them becoming Spartans and doing those drills and so forth there probably wouldn’t of been a humanity so would it matter in the end. Not necessarily. Lastly, you said hundreds of children’s lifes, but there was only 150 Spartan-II candidates, with only 75 being augmented due to the restriction on funds.
>
> If you lend someone your car knowing they are going to commit murder, you are complicit to murder.
>
> Saving humanity in particular, was an afterthought of the S-II program. It’d be like if -Yoink!- Germany killed all the Jews before a huge famine, and if they hadn’t done that, millions would’ve died—what came later doesn’t justify what came before.
>
> All 150 lives of the children were ruined, whether they become soldiers or not. There were hundreds of children abducted, brainwashed and forced to do violent labor across the S-II and S-III program. And yes, S-IIIs were abducted. “Kid, you wanna kill the man who ran over your puppy?” “Yeah!” “Hop in my van, kid.”

In your part before this you were saying that Halsey abducted hundreds of kids, but going back saying that across both programs it was hundreds of kids. A bit confusing if you ask me. It was 150 for the Spartan-II as we are talking about Halsey after all. But to sum this lengthy exchange up, me and you do very differ in opinions. I think Halsey did what was best for humanity in the end, as even though it was for the Innies at first, which in itself could’ve heavily destabilised humanity had Spartans not been made to crush rebellions, but when the Covenant attacked the UNSC was ready, and that did ultimately win the war for humanity with the extension of the Spartan-IIIs of course, and there is no two ways about it. Humanity without Spartans would’ve been driven to extinction, which is surely something we can agree on.

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> > > > > > 2533274878400915;2:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well Halsey did ultimately pay the price for her crimes spending around 3-4 years locked up.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, but 3-4 years is paltry for abducting, brainwashing and forcing children to perform violent, life-threatening labor for decades. She ruined not one, but hundreds of childrens’ chance at life, and not even to save humanity from the Covenant but to fight Insurrectionists. These aren’t just war crimes, they’re crimes against humanity.
> >
> > If you lend someone your car knowing they are going to commit murder, you are complicit to murder.
> >
> > Saving humanity in particular, was an afterthought of the S-II program. It’d be like if -Yoink!- Germany killed all the Jews before a huge famine, and if they hadn’t done that, millions would’ve died—what came later doesn’t justify what came before.
> >
> > All 150 lives of the children were ruined, whether they become soldiers or not. There were hundreds of children abducted, brainwashed and forced to do violent labor across the S-II and S-III program. And yes, S-IIIs were abducted. “Kid, you wanna kill the man who ran over your puppy?” “Yeah!” “Hop in my van, kid.”
>
> In your part before this you were saying that Halsey abducted hundreds of kids, but going back saying that across both programs it was hundreds of kids. A bit confusing if you ask me. It was 150 for the Spartan-II as we are talking about Halsey after all. But to sum this lengthy exchange up, me and you do very differ in opinions. I think Halsey did what was best for humanity in the end, as even though it was for the Innies at first, which in itself could’ve heavily destabilised humanity had Spartans not been made to crush rebellions, but when the Covenant attacked the UNSC was ready, and that did ultimately win the war for humanity with the extension of the Spartan-IIIs of course, and there is no two ways about it. Humanity without Spartans would’ve been driven to extinction, which is surely something we can agree on.

Yes, you’re right, I made a mistake and attributed too many Spartans to the S-II program. If I had bothered to check the wiki, I wouldn’t have, but I didn’t because it’s an irrelevant niggling detail that did not change the core point.

Well, the fate of humanity without Spartans is pure speculation; there may have been other alternatives, but we’ll never know how those would’ve turned out. Considering we can only disagree to agree, we definitely have to agree to disagree.

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> 2535468208617669;4:
> > 2533274878400915;2:
> > Well, one major consideration is that any psychologist, and especially adolescent psychologists will tell you that no adolescent is capable of giving consent, especially not a war orphan. Cognition develops over time, through experience and through the development of their neural pathways; there’s literally a medical reason why you can’t make a legally binding agreement with a child.
> >
> > The only arguments that remain in favor of Ackerson and Halsey are:
> > A) The -Yoink!- conundrum—were they just following the demands of their superiors?
> > B) Is it justifiable to exploit children only if you are successful?
> > C) Speculation that without the tactics or “weapon” utilized, the battle/war would’ve had greater consequences. (See: arguments for & against the use of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.)
> > D) Ackerson and Halsey are scapegoats. Both programs had the approval of the admiralty. Others like Parangosky, Hood, Keyes, etc. should all also be on trial.
> >
> > These children sacrificed their lives for humanity. And I think so too should Ackerson and Halsey accept that they too made a sacrifice by paying the price for justifying the means with the end. In their own way, they are heroes. In their own way, they are villains. In different respects and to different degrees, they are both; there’s no reason they have to be one or the other, but I personally, would see that they paid for their crimes in some way.
>
> Well Halsey did ultimately pay the price for her crimes spending around 3-4 years locked up. We have no idea where it was exactly, but we do know it was ONI’s custody and not the UNSC’s. I do not believe she deserves as harsh a punishment as Ackerson should’ve received considering that he was far more ruthless with his usage of his S-IIIs, seeing them as disposable in a way, which is more than certainly grim, and really undeserving for the most part. But at least some survived the war, right guys? Glad to see Ackerson have a brutal death, which in a way, brings justice.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274811368357;3:
> > He had Parangosky’s full support and was Halsey’s no.2 hater (second only to Parangosky herself), given that she was still CINCONI after the war there was no way that man was going to face a single consequence for his actions. Parangosky even says in Glasslands that she was going to get him to lead the Spartan-IV project and have Halsey working under him.
>
> Just because he had Parangosky’s support didn’t mean he wouldn’t be used as a scapegoat later, as ONI had done with Halsey.

As head of the Spartan-IV project, he’d have been valorised and vindicated as a hero of the war leading the next generation. They already had Halsey as their scapegoat.

> Speaking of Halsey, do you have a source saying that Parangosky had distain for her.

There’s literally an entire trilogy of awful books with a story that revolves entirely around this lol