Would humanity have joined the Covenant?

If the Mercy, Truth and Regret hasn’t found out about humanity’s reclaimer status and somehow luminaries didn’t detect humanity as artifacts how do you think the Covenant would have reacted to humanity?

The whole point of the genocide was to get them out of the way and prolong the Covenant’s stability. However, if everyone was kept in the dark I doubt the Covenant would have tried to kill them all. They never showed that kind of horrid cruelty to the other client races when they subjugated them, even the Hunters who literally ate Forerunner artifacts. I’d think first contact still would have gone as it did, but I don’t think the war between the Covenant and humanity would have been so prolonged or genocidal.

Still, I can’t believe that humans would end up joining the Covenant. They would have to be mass converted or at least be willing to surrender their empire to an alien race.

How do you think events would have changed if the Covenant weren’t out to wipe out humanity? What position would humans get in the Covenant caste system? Would humanity be higher up on the chain under Brutes or would the Prophets condition humans to be cannon fodder and workers like the grunts?

Interesting question. The idea of humans joining the Covenant ties into my over-arching theory, that the Halo universe will eventually lead to a new Covenant made up of all of the species in the Universe, and that we will attain the Mantle together.

Going along with that, I’d suspect that if Humans joined a galactic Covenant, we would diversify in roles- scientists and engineers would work to advance the pursuit of higher technologies, and military forces would train alongside the Jiralhanae and Sangheili to quell insurrections and piracy, and to enforce border disputes. Eventually humans and other species would live in colonies together.

And, more certain than anything else, whatever remains of ONI would plot in secrecy to destroy the other races to ensure humanity’s supremacy in the universe.

If the whole Reclaimer thing wasn’t ever discovered, I’d think that humanity wouldn’t hesitate to join the Covenant, nor would the Covenant hesitate to include the humans.

Humans are great strategists and excellent technicians. While they may lack physical strength, they have a high resolve and are great at finding ways to defeat even the most overpowered enemy.

If I was a San’Shyuum, I’d want them on my side.

I don’t think humans would go for it. Despite the potential benefits, its also a religious organization. The less pious races tended to be marginalized and some seem to be little better than slaves.

Even if we somehow didn’t have an uprising of groups for joining a religious alliance, I think humans would be annoyed by how few of the benefits of the organization they’d receive. We’d end up falling apart from them eventually.

The prophets also seem to be really poor translators, I think humanity would have caused quite an issue once we told them how much they got wrong.

My opinion would be this: We’d probably be scripted in about the same level in the caste as the jackals. Most likely we’d be used primarily for our agricultural expertise, with a select few being chosen for more important roles, including weapons, mechanical, and technological development and maybe even a few political positions. It would really depend on if we could convince the elites and prophets that we could help in that respect though, and considering how self-absorbed some of the prophets tended to be, that would be a tall order to meet

The Spartan-IIs… were made prior to First Strike to quell the Insurrection and so… it would probably be tiered as so:

  1. Prophets.
  2. Sangheili.
  3. Jiralhanae.
  4. Spartans.
  5. Hunters.
  6. Jackals/Skirmishers.
  7. Humans.
  8. Grunts.
  9. Engineers.

However if they unification Humanity was intergrated… that means the Flood would be easily quelled… but also the awakening of the Forerunner known as the Didact… would arouse some questions… and how he hated the Humans… so in the end Humans would be seen as the enemy and worse off… they would have the target of the Great Schism perhaps taking Sangheili or other races with them… but their would be splitting… and the Forerunner Promethean-Covenant Alliance would decimate the remains of the UNSC…

The biggest problem would have been religion. Covenant/Prophets telling humans about the gods known as forerunners. Seeing that humans still believe in Christian god, they would not have taken them so seriously.
Then Covenant gives them the options, join or burn.
I guess humanity would not have pushed their god aside so it would have been war.If they would have joined, I think it would not have lasted long.
Or humanity would have believed the Prophets that Forerunner would be another name for god.
If there would have been peace with humans and covenant, Didact would have broken it.

>In the past, -Yoink!- Sapiens and San 'Shyuun had no problem forming alliance
>Spartan-II’s are equal or even superior to the best of Covenant soldiers
>We are among the most intelligent species in the galaxy, having previously reached Tier 1 on the technological achievement scale
>The Forerunners chose us as the inheritors of the Mantle, showing clear recognition of humanity as a supremely capable and dominant species
>Our military prowess exceeds that of the Unggoy
>We lack the extreme character flaws of the Kig-Yar and the Jiralhanae
>We lack the social limitations of the Yanme’e

I can’t see why we wouldn’t join and in time gain a position similar in power to that of the Elites and Prophets.

@Lifemocker

I don’t see why that would be a problem when all non-founding members of the Covenant had their own idols prior to joining. Plus the Kig-Yar for one were accepted into the Covenant explicitly without consenting to the religious aspect.

> @Lifemocker
>
> I don’t see why that would be a problem when all non-founding members of the Covenant had their own idols prior to joining. Plus the Kig-Yar for one were accepted into the Covenant explicitly without consenting to the religious aspect.

I remember reading that hunters and grunts were forced to join the covenant. Humans are a proud race and religion has shaped their world. How would they feel about it if an alien covenant comes to them “Your god is not real, you are wrong, there is no evidence, but our gods are and we can prove it.”
I’m pretty sure that they would be pissed.

> > @Lifemocker
> >
> > I don’t see why that would be a problem when all non-founding members of the Covenant had their own idols prior to joining. Plus the Kig-Yar for one were accepted into the Covenant explicitly without consenting to the religious aspect.
>
> I remember reading that hunters and grunts were forced to join the covenant. Humans are a proud race and religion has shaped their world. How would they feel about it if an alien covenant comes to them “Your god is not real, you are wrong, there is no evidence, but our gods are and we can prove it.”
> I’m pretty sure that they would be pissed.

You’re forgetting that plenty of people, especially those in developed countries, simply don’t care about religio. They might not be religious, or perhaps they technically are but haven’t been to a church/synagogue/whatever in years. There would doubtless be plenty of theological discussion, presumably with a multitude of factions emerging with varyingly pro- and anti-Covenant stances, but it wouldn’t be the most important factor, not by a long shot.

> > > @Lifemocker
> > >
> > > I don’t see why that would be a problem when all non-founding members of the Covenant had their own idols prior to joining. Plus the Kig-Yar for one were accepted into the Covenant explicitly without consenting to the religious aspect.
> >
> > I remember reading that hunters and grunts were forced to join the covenant. Humans are a proud race and religion has shaped their world. How would they feel about it if an alien covenant comes to them “Your god is not real, you are wrong, there is no evidence, but our gods are and we can prove it.”
> > I’m pretty sure that they would be pissed.
>
> You’re forgetting that plenty of people, especially those in developed countries, simply don’t care about religio. They might not be religious, or perhaps they technically are but haven’t been to a church/synagogue/whatever in years. There would doubtless be plenty of theological discussion, presumably with a multitude of factions emerging with varyingly pro- and anti-Covenant stances, but it wouldn’t be the most important factor, not by a long shot.

Well, the answer to this question if religion would be a big factor in the human covenant alliance can only be answered if we would know how much of the human race still believes in religion after 500 years of science evolving and discovering new species in other worlds. Wars can be caused by very little things when neither of the sides trusts eachother.

Religious or not, I don’t think people would be fans of having a new religion forced on them.

The top tier of the covenant are all firm believers. Our general inability to be so would prevent us from ever being more than tools.

> >In the past, -Yoink!- Sapiens and San 'Shyuun had no problem forming alliance
> >Spartan-II’s are equal or even superior to the best of Covenant soldiers
> >We are among the most intelligent species in the galaxy, having previously reached Tier 1 on the technological achievement scale
> >The Forerunners chose us as the inheritors of the Mantle, showing clear recognition of humanity as a supremely capable and dominant species
> >Our military prowess exceeds that of the Unggoy
> >We lack the extreme character flaws of the Kig-Yar and the Jiralhanae
> >We lack the social limitations of the Yanme’e
>
> I can’t see why we wouldn’t join and in time gain a position similar in power to that of the Elites and Prophets.
>
> @Lifemocker
>
> I don’t see why that would be a problem when all non-founding members of the Covenant had their own idols prior to joining. Plus the Kig-Yar for one were accepted into the Covenant explicitly without consenting to the religious aspect.

I’ll tell you why. Because the Elites already had issues with the Brutes taking their place. If we got anywhere near the Prophets, you better believe they’ll try to do to us what they did to the Elites, who were with them from the beginning and had served them for centuries.

> > >In the past, -Yoink!- Sapiens and San 'Shyuun had no problem forming alliance
> > >Spartan-II’s are equal or even superior to the best of Covenant soldiers
> > >We are among the most intelligent species in the galaxy, having previously reached Tier 1 on the technological achievement scale
> > >The Forerunners chose us as the inheritors of the Mantle, showing clear recognition of humanity as a supremely capable and dominant species
> > >Our military prowess exceeds that of the Unggoy
> > >We lack the extreme character flaws of the Kig-Yar and the Jiralhanae
> > >We lack the social limitations of the Yanme’e
> >
> > I can’t see why we wouldn’t join and in time gain a position similar in power to that of the Elites and Prophets.
> >
> > @Lifemocker
> >
> > I don’t see why that would be a problem when all non-founding members of the Covenant had their own idols prior to joining. Plus the Kig-Yar for one were accepted into the Covenant explicitly without consenting to the religious aspect.
>
> There
>
> I’ll tell you why. Because the Elites already had issues with the Brutes taking their place. If we got anywhere near the Prophets, you better believe they’ll try to do to us what they did to the Elites, who were with them from the beginning and had served them for centuries.

Sure, the Elites and the Brutes hated each other, largely because a) they occupied the same military role and b) the Brutes were so naturally aggressive. Humans were far calmer and more politically astute, and did not threaten to replace the Elites. We would’ve fitted right in as new caste that didn’t step on any toes.

> Humans were far calmer and more politically astute, and did not threaten to replace the Elites. We would’ve fitted right in as new caste that didn’t step on any toes.

Thats why humans were in the middle of a civil war that might have ended in mutual destruction until the covenant showed up?

I think you have far more faith in humanity than I do.

> Still, I can’t believe that humans would end up joining the Covenant. They would have to be mass converted or at least be willing to surrender their empire to an alien race.

I think they would if extinction seemed certain.

> What position would humans get in the Covenant caste system? Would humanity be higher up on the chain under Brutes or would the Prophets condition humans to be cannon fodder and workers like the grunts?

Hard to say. I think that where humans are placed and how humans are viewed would be different, and that these things would be different depending on what species you ask.

Humans don’t offer very many skills unique to the Covenant at the present moment. The UNSC is a primitive backwater race that has no experience in inter-species and interstellar diplomacy, no knowledge of the surrounding space or polities, it has a very small and very technologically limited navy and military with quite ineffective soldiers compared to what the Covenant field due to their physical frailty and technological shortcomings, and they have very limited access to resources, trivial military-industrial power, population size, economic strength and is also socially unprepared for encountering other alien lifeforms. Humanity joining the Covenant would be like strapping a dynamo to the side of a power station.

Hence I believe that Humans would get placed quite low, as low as Grunts I’m afraid to say. At least the Jackals present acute economic advantages to the Covenant and hence already fill that role. Even though Humanity has a well organized military and acute strategic awareness in principle, the Elites already have that covered and actually exceed humanity there. As far as scientists and Engineers are concerned, the Covenant already has Drones and Huragok for that, and this attribute wouldn’t be as highly sought after either due to the Covenant’s relative lack of interest in this field.

I don’t think Humanity would have a purpose in the Covenant. It got into space too late compared with everyone else and is hence too weak to offer a significant contribution to the Covenant in order to warrant it’s inclusion into the caste system at number 3 or 4.

Being at the same level as Grunts politically doesn’t necessarily mean the same level of treatment though. It’s been mentioned several times that Humanity’s resolve and strategic acumen was atypical among the Covenant client races, even though they are still largely made redundant by the Sangheili militarily. Humanity also does have a highly organized military and shows some competence that perhaps exceeds all but the Sangheili. In that case Humanity would likely be a special case where the normal rules of the caste don’t apply - weak politically but offered respect and acknowledgment by the higher castes that isn’t usually offered to the lower ones.

That will likely change with time though, as Humanity grows technologically from the Covenant, the highly organised military that it has and the attributes that the Elites noted humans as having might form the basis for eventual elevation and replacement of Grunts and Jackals, but not as canon fodder units (Assigning marines as nothing but cannon fodder would be a waste of their skills that humanity has already developed and that the Covenant can utilize for free). There are forces beyond just the UNSC, like ONI and the Assembly that will likely facilitate that somehow, and we’re an ambitious bunch as well. Perhaps Humanity’s unique offering to the Covenant in time would be the concept that underpins the Spartan programs.

I think that ultimately Humanity has the basis for something that the Elites and the Covenant would find valuable (Which is Humanity’s resolve, strategic/tactical awareness, ambition, military organization and training in principle) but it’s not yet at a level where it would afford them any serious political power. It would take time.

I think humanity wouldn’t of had joined the covenant but would try to form an alliance and eventually peace, but the covenant think join or burn so war will be declared and halo universe will run similar to how it already does.

Here is my take on why Humans would never join The Covenant. There are a number of reasons.

First and foremost…Atheism amongst Humans. These individuals would have a HUGE problem with a theocracy just rolling in and assimilating humanity into their Government. You would have all the Richard Dawkins’ of the world going “delusion this and delusion this”. They would be the FIRST to join The Insurrection.

Second - Religious organizations would have a huge problem with being ask to foresake everything they believe in. Some people might role over and convert, but you would have some religious extremists not going for it, and running to the nearest Insurrection.

Third - The UNSC would not stand for the Covenant’s general policy of “convert or die” The UNSC would not allow The Covenant to exterminate Humans who did not convert. This would cause a HUGE rift, and push people towards an Insurrection.

Fourth - Human society believes in equal representation. Humanity would now allow itself to have no representation in The Covenant. They would DEMAND equal representation in the form of Councillors. Obviously…this would NOT happen (easily) and you would have MORE people running to The Insurrection.

Fifth - You would have a bunch of lefties screaming equality in The Covenant, and a bunch of rednecks telling The Covenant to stay off their land and stay out of their lives. More people for The Insurrection.

So far, we have a LOT of pissed of Humans.

Sixth - The loss of Sovereignty in our own territory would push the UNSC over the edge, and force a rebellion. More people for The Insurrection.

Quite frankly…with all this said…Humanity would have been MORE united had The Covenant have tried to assimilate our culture.

Now, how would this affect The Covenant races? Perhaps the overwhelming Human rebellion would spark even greater demands for reform. All those other races would start to say…“wait a minute…we should ALSO have equal representation”.

In short…in true Human fashion…we would screw EVERYTHING up.

On this subject, how does the intelligence of the various Covenant races (plus humanity) stack up? My power rankings:

Humans
Prophets

Elites
Jackals



Brutes
Grunts

I don’t think you can really fit Engineers, Hunters and Drones into such a list, given their nonstandard attributes.

After Dead Space, I fail to see how Unitologists could possibly worship the Marker and the Necromorphs, but there it is. I’m sure there were some nuts who would’ve joined the Covenant, if given the chance.