Will the community ever listen to the opinions of the community?
Come to think of it, will the community ever listen to the opinions of Bungie/343i? There’s even good reasons for why the got rid of the ranking system for Reach.
> I feel like people come on Waypoint just to vent about things.
>
> Until about three weeks ago I had abandoned Halo 4 to go back to Reach. I though Reach was a better game, and I still think it is, but I went back to play Halo 4.
>
> Since its release I saw a ton of improvements:
> - more playlists (BTB, richocet, team slayer)
> - faster killing
> - I’ve noticed less lagging during games
> - more skilled players
> - etc etc etc
>
> I feel that 343 had large shoes to fill, and they made a pretty good game in the beginning. Since then I’ve noticed many improvements yet nobody seems to care. I’m at the point of flipping out because people are saying “Us Halo veterans deserve better than this and 343 doesn’t listen to us”. First of all Halo 4 is a great game and was 343’s first major game without Bungie’s help. I think people didn’t give the game a chance and since the game had a rocky start, they are reluctant to come back. I understand this feeling, but it gives nobody the right to trash a game that might be a little different from conventional Halo’s, but is a great game nevertheless. Since people are too busy being negative to the game, and many haven’t played it for months but continue to hate on it, they haven’t noticed the many improvements in the game. Give it a chance.
>
> <mark>I’m am in no way saying that Halo 4 is mistake free or better than Reach. What I am saying is that 343 had huge shoes to fill, and the “so-called Halo veterans” are leaving the game like they have only played the series for a few months. Let’s give 343 a chance.</mark> Improvements to Halo 4 have been made, but Halo 5 will truly tell us if 343 has learned anything.
You keep saying “it’s their first game, they had big shoes to fill” like they made the best Halo game they could for the Halo fans and it fell short because they just don’t have the experience that Bungie did. But that’s not at all what they did. They tried so hard to make Halo 4 a mainstream, modern shooter, sellout cash grab that I’m blown away they didn’t give it Aim Down Sights and microtransactions. Oh wait, they’re still thinking about adding microtransactions.
They sold their fans down the river in the most extreme way they possibly could have. Halo 4 has more CoD features than Halo features at this point. They absolutely do not deserve slack. They should have to prove to us that they have been listening with Halo 5. But with them still releasing armor abilities that make you automatically survive vehicle death, make sprint even more unstoppably annoying and achievements that reward you for camping, I don’t see that happening. They still don’t get it.
> You keep saying “it’s their first game, they had big shoes to fill” like they made the best Halo game they could for the Halo fans and it fell short because they just don’t have the experience that Bungie did. But that’s not at all what they did. They tried so hard to make Halo 4 a mainstream, modern shooter, sellout cash grab that I’m blown away they didn’t give it ADS and microtransactions. Oh wait, they’re still thinking about adding microtransactions. They sold their fans down the river in the most extreme way they possibly could have. Halo 4 has more CoD features than Halo features at this point. They absolutely do not deserve slack. They should have to prove to us that they have been listening with Halo 5. But with them still releasing armor abilities that make you automatically survive vehicle death, make sprint even more unstoppably annoying and achievements that reward you for camping, I don’t see that happening. They still don’t get it.
Because “intentionally” alienating your fanbase is totally the most efficient way to get money.
I think your logic is broken.
> > You keep saying “it’s their first game, they had big shoes to fill” like they made the best Halo game they could for the Halo fans and it fell short because they just don’t have the experience that Bungie did. But that’s not at all what they did. They tried so hard to make Halo 4 a mainstream, modern shooter, sellout cash grab that I’m blown away they didn’t give it ADS and microtransactions. Oh wait, they’re still thinking about adding microtransactions. They sold their fans down the river in the most extreme way they possibly could have. Halo 4 has more CoD features than Halo features at this point. They absolutely do not deserve slack. They should have to prove to us that they have been listening with Halo 5. But with them still releasing armor abilities that make you automatically survive vehicle death, make sprint even more unstoppably annoying and achievements that reward you for camping, I don’t see that happening. They still don’t get it.
>
> Because “intentionally” alienating your fanbase is totally the most efficient way to get money.
>
> I think your logic is broken.
Alright. Try to follow along here, because I’m going to explain this to you. What game did I say they took a bunch of features from? Okay, now what game is the best selling shooter in history? Starting to see what they were trying to accomplish yet?
If not, I’ll spell it out for you. CoD is the fps right now. It breaks sales records every year. So they probably thought they’d try to steal some of that player base (and money) by making Halo more like CoD. All they probably thought was that they’d find a “modern” audience that would make up for any of the fans they lost because of the changes. The problem is that a game that’s 50% CoD isn’t going to steal CoD fans away from playing a game that’s 100% CoD. And it sure as hell isn’t going to make Halo fans happy.
what the hell…? okay, you make the Halo 5’s multiplayer by yourself. tomorrow.
> what the hell…? okay, you make the Halo 5’s multiplayer by yourself. tomorrow.
Because that’s how a Halo game has been made ever, right?
I personally think they do listen, it takes a while but they try
people did ask for the armour like ODST and Mark V, but then it doesn’t work in Spartan ops,
but then I feel alot of multiplayer issues they infact are just making worse
> The problem is that a game that’s 50% CoD isn’t going to steal CoD fans away from playing a game that’s 100% CoD. And it sure as hell isn’t going to make Halo fans happy.
So why again did they “intentionally” alienate their fanbase?
> > The problem is that a game that’s 50% CoD isn’t going to steal CoD fans away from playing a game that’s 100% CoD. And it sure as hell isn’t going to make Halo fans happy.
>
> So why again did they “intentionally” alienate their fanbase?
I just told you twice. Because they saw that CoD is making all of the money and they wanted a piece of that, Halo fans be -Yoink!-.
> I just told you twice. Because they saw that CoD is making all of the money and they wanted a piece of that, Halo fans be -Yoink!-.
And you also just told me why that idea is illogical.
> > I just told you twice. Because they saw that CoD is making all of the money and they wanted a piece of that, Halo fans be -Yoink!-.
>
> And you also just told me why that idea is illogical.
> what the hell…? okay, you make the Halo 5’s multiplayer by yourself. tomorrow.
You kinda shoot yourself in the foot with that argument. 343i had gameplay and mechanics that worked and were fun. They didn’t have to turn it into a completely different game, but they did anyway. Most of the game–weapons, vehicles, enemies, characters, story background, multiplayer mechanics–were already done for them. There wasn’t that much for them to do. But instead of them building on what was already there, they scrapped a lot of it and tried to make it more accessible and more like “modern shooters.”
Now, I believe that 343i will do a much better job with Halo 5. But Halo 4 is not Halo enough to be liked by most Halo fans, and not CoD enough to be liked by CoD fans.
> > I just told you twice. Because they saw that CoD is making all of the money and they wanted a piece of that, Halo fans be -Yoink!-.
>
> And you also just told me why that idea is illogical.
I told you what their intentions were and that those intentions didn’t work like they expected.
> > I don’t think 343i will actually listen to their fans. <mark>They only care about money and sales</mark>, not actually putting out a quality game. They don’t care if the game population goes down drastically like it has, because those people already bought the game and 343i has their money.
> >
> > Either that, or 343i just doesn’t know how to make a quality multiplayer game, which is even more scary since I could put it together in one day whereas they spend three years and still fail.
>
> Prove it. They took the reins from Bungie and fixed problems with Reach which Bungie didn’t, they made DLC Firefight maps for Reach. They made Forward Unto Dawn and released all the parts, free of charge. With Halo 4 they finally did the right thing and let fans who read the books benefit from reading them in Campaign, they released SpOps free, they’ve been working to improve the multiplayer
Bungie was just messing around with Reach. They didn’t care how it did, they were done with the Halo franchise and wanted to try out some new things in their last Halo game. Even with all the messing around they did with Reach, it is still more popular of a game than Halo 4.
Forward Unto Dawn was just a huge promotion for Halo 4, basically a large commercial.
I read all the Halo books and I couldn’t tell what was going on in the Halo 4 campaign so I don’t see how that is a benefit.
Of course Spartan Ops were free, just like Firefight was, and it doesn’t matter to me, but more people prefer Firefight over Spartan Ops.
As far as improving the multiplayer, I agree they are, but it started out so bad that all of their changes are so minor in the grand scheme of things. This multiplayer is so different from the first three Halos and that’s why it is #13 on the xbox live activity charts.
> > > I don’t think 343i will actually listen to their fans. <mark>They only care about money and sales</mark>, not actually putting out a quality game. They don’t care if the game population goes down drastically like it has, because those people already bought the game and 343i has their money.
> > >
> > > Either that, or 343i just doesn’t know how to make a quality multiplayer game, which is even more scary since I could put it together in one day whereas they spend three years and still fail.
> >
> > Prove it. They took the reins from Bungie and fixed problems with Reach which Bungie didn’t, they made DLC Firefight maps for Reach. They made Forward Unto Dawn and released all the parts, free of charge. With Halo 4 they finally did the right thing and let fans who read the books benefit from reading them in Campaign, they released SpOps free, they’ve been working to improve the multiplayer
>
> Bungie was just messing around with Reach. They didn’t care how it did, they were done with the Halo franchise and wanted to try out some new things in their last Halo game. Even with all the messing around they did with Reach, it is still more popular of a game than Halo 4.
>
> Forward Unto Dawn was just a huge promotion for Halo 4, basically a large commercial.
>
> I read all the Halo books and I couldn’t tell what was going on in the Halo 4 campaign so I don’t see how that is a benefit.
>
> Of course Spartan Ops were free, just like Firefight was, and it doesn’t matter to me, but more people prefer Firefight over Spartan Ops.
>
> As far as improving the multiplayer, I agree they are, but it started out so bad that all of their changes are so minor in the grand scheme of things. This multiplayer is so different from the first three Halos and that’s why it is #13 on the xbox live activity charts.
Yes they totally wasted 1000s of man hours and millions of dollars of marketing and game development just to “mess around” .
It seems like some don’t know the actual the definition of the word listen, quite said actually . Listen doesn’t mean they are going to do what you want them to do.
BS Angel’s quote
"Thank you for changing your verbiage. Insulting others for their opinions and preferences is not tolerated here, as it’s purely subjective.
Now, to the topic at hand. Making decisions such as the ones you reference are not easy. There are two important things to note: Forum goers do not equal the online population, and stats and trends are weighed appropriately in comparison to anecdotal feedback. Both are important, absolutely; however there is a delicate balance between the two that needs to be respected. While you can get a rough idea of how many people are playing a certain playlist at a particular time, we know exactly how many people are playing in each hopper, down to an hourly level. We also know what game types and maps are being voted on (along with numerous other player preferences). You can come on the forum, make a poll, and get 100 people to vote and agree with you, but if only 2% of the online population is reflecting that desire, it’s not likely we’re going to implement it.
Anecdotal feedback is important, and it helps us investigate and determine what is actionable. It is not the cure-all, though, nor will it ever be, as online statistics are a vital and important part of the decision making process.
So, to answer your question, while we may not be doing exactly what you’re asking for, we are listening, and we are making the decisions that are best for our players, as often and as frequently as possible.
Thanks for the discussion, by the way. We appreciate when people share their opinion, whether it be positive, negative, or somewhere in between."
Now you can disagree with this approach , but this is how many game companies operate , so I doubt they are going to stop the practice .
> There have been a quite a few polls going around on here and through many forums on Halo’s current state.
>
> On all the polls that I’ve seen about bringing back a ranking system similar to that of Halo 2’s, between 90-95% of people who vote of them say they DO want the ranking system back. And I’m sorry but this CSR Waypoint thing is garbage. I miss the days where I could see different ranks for each playlist and have my highest rank attached to me during match lobbies. It was something I took pride in because ranking up back then was very hard.
>
> You needed to find players to go in with and there was an onus on everyone playing in TS and BTB to actually work for the team instead of just for themselves. You got rewards for getting a lot of kills or being the one that scored the flag, so there was some greed, but the main thing was that the team won, and you got rewarded if your team won. I didn’t mind jumping in the face of danger if it helped the team achieve victory.
>
> Halo 2 and Halo 3 were made for people who were competitive and also mature enough to see that working together with team mates was the only real way to get up in the high 30’s and 40’s in ranked team games. It’s not the same anymore. Some people do play as team mates, but nowadays everyone is just selfish and only cares about their own KD and exp.
>
> 343 don’t listen to the Halo Community. They just state that we are only part of the Halo fan base so it wouldn’t be fair to everyone else if they didn’t like what we are suggesting, but I think the Halo community has realised this and offered suggestions as to how you can make it a fun game competitively and socially, so everyone is happy.
>
> Unfortunately many other developers have started to do this. Ranking or leveling up in a lot of games these days is a formality because all the developers care about is making it more noob friendly so casuals can feel more drawn to play it and more copies will be sold.
>
> I really miss Bungies interaction with the community, and whatever 343 release next year, they will never ever be a patch on Bungie. I know 343 was a part of bungie once, but they are operating completely different to what Bungie were like during Halo 2 and Halo 3’s operation.
-
We have been over this. The forum population is a minority compared to the halo fanbase as a whole. Any and every poll here on the forums will never be an accurate observation.
-
As a player since CE there has always been online jerks. Suggesting that they either just showed up in reach or that they were few in numbers before so PURLY BASED on the lack of in game visible rank is a laughable long stretch.
-
Consider the nurmerous changes tweaks and adds halo 4 has recieved over it’s life time i’d say 343 does listen. Also you should know even if 343 wanted to return to a visible in game rank like halo 2 or 3 that’s not possible in halo 4. They are unable to do any changes involving the UI.
Lastly you can count the number of ex bungie employee’s now in 343 on one hand. Bungie was just as vague, just as mysterious, and just as absent on the forums. Glorify bungie all you wish. But they are not as perfect as you make them. You my friend are ruled and live in the past.
First Thought:
Why would anyone at 343i listen to any of the negative comments about the game? The majority of the posts about their game are negative in nature. If I(and I venture to say all of you) were to create a game that was bashed on by this or any community for that matter, why would I continue to work on it?
Second Thought:
The balance on a small scale 4v4 is fine, otherwise I’d check your internet speed and/or kdr for more insight into why that is not the case for you. Keep in mind while the br is technically a 4 burst kill you have to hit them dead on with those bursts or if you can’t manage that use an auto that is perfect for close range.
Third Thought:
The largest playlist by far in this game is big team battle which is fine, but that’s where the balancing really becomes an issue. Not with who has what primary, but how can you maintain a vehicle when maps are filled with weapons that obliterate vehicles? Most likely, you can’t depending on who you are on a skill level. Any player with half a brain would have an anti-vehicle loadout in case one was used against them. Allowing people to choose sidearms and grenades severely impacts that aspect of balancing Halo(on top of this ridiculous survivor perk).
Conclusion Thought: Streamlined variant loadouts based on everything the same except for abilities like REACH. Why was that even changed to begin with? On some level it was to compete with other shooters so maybe they could get some of their fanbase. On another it was a risky innovation that could’ve pushed Halo in a fresh direction. That is however faulty logic considering how Halo already had some of those fans as it is possible to own more than one shooter and it should have stuck with what it does best. Personal loadouts don’t fit here they and we know that now, if it returns I can’t see it being popular anymore. Millions will be sold sure, but a month after release we’re in the same situation as we’re in now. As much as I’d like to see my human flying transport vehicles return the more pressing issues such as a removal of personal loadouts, and an option to disable sprint must be handled first and foremost.