Why.

Why.
Why would you do this? We all know “Live service games” are just scams to lock premade content behind a paywall. 60$ upfront, then 40$ for the season pass, 40$ for the next big DLC, etc. It’s gonna be Halo 5 all over again, almost no content at launch, but this time, no free updates, you buy the season pass to get “all new content” (aka content that was cut to be resold). What do you want to bet that almost all armor will come from REQ packs again? A few sets earnable in-game, sure, but I guarantee that 95% of all customization options will be BEHIND A PAYWALL. Even if there isn’t “Real money lootboxes”, thats some shady terminology. I guarantee that you can buy lootboxes with REQ points, and you can buy REQ points with real money, so technically it isn’t “real money lootboxes”. I’m upset. What happened to the days of buying a game and getting a complete package? Like Halos’ 1-4. Sure, they had DLC map packs, but you had ALL the customization, modes, etc. in the base game. And then Halo 5 came along, an empty husk at launch, filled with microtransactions.
Its greed, plain and simple.
I hope theres another explanation for this, because I really, really want to believe in Halo again. I wouldn’t mind paid story DLC, like a Spartan Ops campaign, or map packs/armor/emblems, only if the base game is content rich at the start, and things can be EARNED through reasonable amounts of work/time. I’m just worried is all.

> 2535406819891318;1:
> https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/halo-infinite-will-have-aaa-player-investment-expe/1100-6469172/
>
> Why.
> Why would you do this? We all know “Live service games” are just scams to lock premade content behind a paywall. 60$ upfront, then 40$ for the season pass, 40$ for the next big DLC, etc. It’s gonna be Halo 5 all over again, almost no content at launch, but this time, no free updates, you buy the season pass to get “all new content” (aka content that was cut to be resold). What do you want to bet that almost all armor will come from REQ packs again? A few sets earnable in-game, sure, but I guarantee that 95% of all customization options will be BEHIND A PAYWALL. Even if there isn’t “Real money lootboxes”, thats some shady terminology. I guarantee that you can buy lootboxes with REQ points, and you can buy REQ points with real money, so technically it isn’t “real money lootboxes”. I’m upset. What happened to the days of buying a game and getting a complete package? Like Halos’ 1-4. Sure, they had DLC map packs, but you had ALL the customization, modes, etc. in the base game. And then Halo 5 came along, an empty husk at launch, filled with microtransactions.
> Its greed, plain and simple.
> I hope theres another explanation for this, because I really, really want to believe in Halo again. I wouldn’t mind paid story DLC, like a Spartan Ops campaign, or map packs/armor/emblems, only if the base game is content rich at the start, and things can be EARNED through reasonable amounts of work/time. I’m just worried is all.

Seeing how politics are moving and how badly gambling is seen by both the consumer base and the law-makesr in most European and Asian countries, it’s unlikely that we’re going to see loot-boxes in Halo again. HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean we’re save quite yet and as such you should be worried. 343i could still create some grind-heavy system, even if it’s similar to Reach. If that’s the case it’s likely that all cosmetics will be purchasable with both a ridiculous amount of in-game CR as well as real life money. At least this is what I’m expecting sadly… I hope to be wrong of course! Some kind of MTs will be in the game though, we knew that for almost two years now! :stuck_out_tongue:

If that happens, then this is hon. be bad. Right now gears 5 is doing betyer since no season pass ans loot boxes.

Hoooo boy we are assuming the worst, I don’t really blame you though considering what “live service” usually means, which is what you described. I personally would rather have free content updates with cosmetic MTX than having to pay for DLC because that separates the community. Hopefully the extra dev time means we won’t have another bare bones H5 launch with the free post launch content being stuff that should’ve been there at launch, it’s too early to tell. “Live service” is such a vague term it literally could just mean they’re planning on adding new maps and modes rather than pulling a Bungie and charging for expansions, season passes, and MTX

> 2533275031939856;4:
> Hoooo boy we are assuming the worst, I don’t really blame you though considering what “live service” usually means, which is what you described. I personally would rather have free content updates with cosmetic MTX than having to pay for DLC because that separates the community. Hopefully the extra dev time means we won’t have another bare bones H5 launch with the free post launch content being stuff that should’ve been there at launch, it’s too early to tell. “Live service” is such a vague terms it literally could just mean they’re planning on adding new maps and modes rather than pulling a Bungie and charging for expansions, season passes, and MTX

Vague terms are used when they don’t want to fully disclose what they’re doing. Unfortunately they are guilty until proven innocent; if they aren’t planning microtransactions like that and are smart we should see an official response in the next week. If we don’t it’d be pretty safe to assume the worst to be honest.

Please don’t make Halo a ‘Live-service’.

SaS makes sense for businesses - they scale and depending on scale - will demand more or less software.
A piece of entertainment software should be all-included since players do not scale demand. They buy the whole game expecting it all to be there.

> 2533274808860969;5:
> > 2533275031939856;4:
> > Hoooo boy we are assuming the worst, I don’t really blame you though considering what “live service” usually means, which is what you described. I personally would rather have free content updates with cosmetic MTX than having to pay for DLC because that separates the community. Hopefully the extra dev time means we won’t have another bare bones H5 launch with the free post launch content being stuff that should’ve been there at launch, it’s too early to tell. “Live service” is such a vague terms it literally could just mean they’re planning on adding new maps and modes rather than pulling a Bungie and charging for expansions, season passes, and MTX
>
> Vague terms are used when they don’t want to fully disclose what they’re doing. Unfortunately they are guilty until proven innocent; if they aren’t planning microtransactions like that and are smart we should see an official response in the next week. If we don’t it’d be pretty safe to assume the worst to be honest.

Yeah hopefully they let us know exactly what they’re planning soon to clear confusion. Even if it’s on the -Yoink- side I just would like to know so I’m not sitting here wondering and getting my hopes up.

I’m shocked that people are shocked by this.

Its a AAA, PvP focused, Competitive Arena FPS title releasing in 2020 that has had an extended development run and presumably an extended budget too, releasing at Launch on Xbox Game Pass.
There was no way on earth that it was not going to be a ‘Games as a Service’ title.

Im not going to defend anyone here but this game is releasing in 2020. Not 2005. This is the way it works now and it has been like this for a few years now.

Edit: Also, while I am here We knew this already, and it will not be loot boxes.

> 2533274882881665;8:
> I’m shocked that people are shocked by this.
>
> Its a AAA, PvP focused, Competitive Arena FPS title releasing in 2020 that has had an extended development run and presumably an extended budget too, releasing at Launch on Xbox Game Pass.
> There was no way on earth that it was not going to be a ‘Games as a Service’ title.
>
> Im not going to defend anyone here but this game is releasing in 2020. Not 2005. This is the way it works now and it has been like this for a few years now.

Shocked? maybe.
But from 343i’s track record every Halo game that has forced this…has made the games worse and has led to a backlash every time. Release date is not an excuse to defend predatory behaviour. There’s plenty of modern games right now that have none whatsoever and it certainly should not be be used to turn every game into a mindless grind or ‘pay for the chance’ to earn an item. I physically despise that some games have done this and it’s why I hate EA’s version of Battlefront. The more people try to accept it the more company’s think they can get away with it and micro-transactions is why I mostly avoid mobile gaming and after what happened with Halo 5…it actually made me feel a deep hatred towards loot box’s because I’m literally sick of opening them and I’m tired of the excuse that some try to make it sound ok just because some people think it’s ok to ‘tolerate’ them…despite them technically ruining how I usually prefer to enjoy playing my games.

If 343i continue doing this then I strongly feel it will hurt Halo Infinite and further lead to fans trusting 343i less. Plus the way they have been talking about ‘games as a service’ has me concerned.

> 2535406819891318;1:
> https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/halo-infinite-will-have-aaa-player-investment-expe/1100-6469172/
>
> Why.
> Why would you do this? We all know “Live service games” are just scams to lock premade content behind a paywall. 60$ upfront, then 40$ for the season pass, 40$ for the next big DLC, etc. It’s gonna be Halo 5 all over again, almost no content at launch, but this time, no free updates, you buy the season pass to get “all new content” (aka content that was cut to be resold). What do you want to bet that almost all armor will come from REQ packs again? A few sets earnable in-game, sure, but I guarantee that 95% of all customization options will be BEHIND A PAYWALL. Even if there isn’t “Real money lootboxes”, thats some shady terminology. I guarantee that you can buy lootboxes with REQ points, and you can buy REQ points with real money, so technically it isn’t “real money lootboxes”. I’m upset. What happened to the days of buying a game and getting a complete package? Like Halos’ 1-4. Sure, they had DLC map packs, but you had ALL the customization, modes, etc. in the base game. And then Halo 5 came along, an empty husk at launch, filled with microtransactions.
> Its greed, plain and simple.
> I hope theres another explanation for this, because I really, really want to believe in Halo again. I wouldn’t mind paid story DLC, like a Spartan Ops campaign, or map packs/armor/emblems, only if the base game is content rich at the start, and things can be EARNED through reasonable amounts of work/time. I’m just worried is all.

This is nothing new. There was a job advertised here after the E3 2018 engine reveal. It was looking for a candidate with games as a service experience, a knowledge of micro transactions and player psychology. That set the alarm bells off in my head. When you add that to what you just linked, and the line Halo Infinite won’t have "paid" loot boxes together, it’s concerning to say the least imo. However, I’m not surprised.

> 2592250499819446;10:
> > 2535406819891318;1:
> > https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/halo-infinite-will-have-aaa-player-investment-expe/1100-6469172/
> >
> > Why.
> > Why would you do this? We all know “Live service games” are just scams to lock premade content behind a paywall. 60$ upfront, then 40$ for the season pass, 40$ for the next big DLC, etc. It’s gonna be Halo 5 all over again, almost no content at launch, but this time, no free updates, you buy the season pass to get “all new content” (aka content that was cut to be resold). What do you want to bet that almost all armor will come from REQ packs again? A few sets earnable in-game, sure, but I guarantee that 95% of all customization options will be BEHIND A PAYWALL. Even if there isn’t “Real money lootboxes”, thats some shady terminology. I guarantee that you can buy lootboxes with REQ points, and you can buy REQ points with real money, so technically it isn’t “real money lootboxes”. I’m upset. What happened to the days of buying a game and getting a complete package? Like Halos’ 1-4. Sure, they had DLC map packs, but you had ALL the customization, modes, etc. in the base game. And then Halo 5 came along, an empty husk at launch, filled with microtransactions.
> > Its greed, plain and simple.
> > I hope theres another explanation for this, because I really, really want to believe in Halo again. I wouldn’t mind paid story DLC, like a Spartan Ops campaign, or map packs/armor/emblems, only if the base game is content rich at the start, and things can be EARNED through reasonable amounts of work/time. I’m just worried is all.
>
> This is nothing new. There was a job advertised here after the E3 2018 engine reveal. It was looking for a candidate with games as a service experience, a knowledge of micro transactions and player psychology. That set the alarm bells off in my head. When you add that to what you just linked, and the line Halo Infinite won’t have "paid" loot boxes together, it’s concerning to say the least imo. However, I’m not surprised.

but it could still have loot boxes but “in game loot boxes” without paying them.

I think it’s too early to say much about this to be honest. Seeing the announcement of microtransactions is always upsetting, particularly after igniting a hope that infinite would steer away from the backlash that Halo 5 had but on the bright side, I believe the profits from REQ packs in 5 was also used to fund HCS which greatly benefits the community and lifespan of the game generally.
They’ve already confirmed that there won’t be any in-game loot boxes using real money at the very least so I think we’ll just have to wait and see what they have planned.

> 2533274829873463;9:
> > 2533274882881665;8:
> > I’m shocked that people are shocked by this.
> >
> > Its a AAA, PvP focused, Competitive Arena FPS title releasing in 2020 that has had an extended development run and presumably an extended budget too, releasing at Launch on Xbox Game Pass.
> > There was no way on earth that it was not going to be a ‘Games as a Service’ title.
> >
> > Im not going to defend anyone here but this game is releasing in 2020. Not 2005. This is the way it works now and it has been like this for a few years now.
>
> Shocked? maybe.
> But from 343i’s track record every Halo game that has forced this…has made the games worse and has led to a backlash every time. Release date is not an excuse to defend predatory behaviour. There’s plenty of modern games right now that have none whatsoever and it certainly should not be be used to turn every game into a mindless grind or ‘pay for the chance’ to earn an item. I physically despise that some games have done this and it’s why I hate EA’s version of Battlefront. The more people try to accept it the more company’s think they can get away with it and micro-transactions is why I mostly avoid mobile gaming and after what happened with Halo 5…it actually made me feel a deep hatred towards loot box’s because I’m literally sick of opening them and I’m tired of the excuse that some try to make it sound ok just because some people think it’s ok to ‘tolerate’ them…despite them technically ruining how I usually prefer to enjoy playing my games.
>
> If 343i continue doing this then I strongly feel it will hurt Halo Infinite and further lead to fans trusting 343i less. Plus the way they have been talking about ‘games as a service’ has me concerned.

Halo 5. That’s one game. All games from Halo 4 onward have been made by other developers, albeit with 343i insight. 343i has only directly made two games and only one had the microtransactions.

Halo 5 and halo wars 2 had micro transactions and including halo spartan assult and maybe the other one? So so very mixed, but hopefully itl be the best case scenario and itl be stuff that won’t effect the main game and just be things like silly stuff that nobody will mind etc but who knows.

> 2533274879721941;11:
> > 2592250499819446;10:
> > > 2535406819891318;1:
> > > https://www.gamespot.com/amp-articles/halo-infinite-will-have-aaa-player-investment-expe/1100-6469172/
> > >
> > > Why.
> > > Why would you do this? We all know “Live service games” are just scams to lock premade content behind a paywall. 60$ upfront, then 40$ for the season pass, 40$ for the next big DLC, etc. It’s gonna be Halo 5 all over again, almost no content at launch, but this time, no free updates, you buy the season pass to get “all new content” (aka content that was cut to be resold). What do you want to bet that almost all armor will come from REQ packs again? A few sets earnable in-game, sure, but I guarantee that 95% of all customization options will be BEHIND A PAYWALL. Even if there isn’t “Real money lootboxes”, thats some shady terminology. I guarantee that you can buy lootboxes with REQ points, and you can buy REQ points with real money, so technically it isn’t “real money lootboxes”. I’m upset. What happened to the days of buying a game and getting a complete package? Like Halos’ 1-4. Sure, they had DLC map packs, but you had ALL the customization, modes, etc. in the base game. And then Halo 5 came along, an empty husk at launch, filled with microtransactions.
> > > Its greed, plain and simple.
> > > I hope theres another explanation for this, because I really, really want to believe in Halo again. I wouldn’t mind paid story DLC, like a Spartan Ops campaign, or map packs/armor/emblems, only if the base game is content rich at the start, and things can be EARNED through reasonable amounts of work/time. I’m just worried is all.
> >
> > This is nothing new. There was a job advertised here after the E3 2018 engine reveal. It was looking for a candidate with games as a service experience, a knowledge of micro transactions and player psychology. That set the alarm bells off in my head. When you add that to what you just linked, and the line Halo Infinite won’t have "paid" loot boxes together, it’s concerning to say the least imo. However, I’m not surprised.
>
> but it could still have loot boxes but “in game loot boxes” without paying them.

Obviously, however free in game loot boxes do not benefit 343i and annoy the players, it seems pointless to add them for free imo, but my comment was about my conerns on everything. I stated in other threads that if Halo Infinite has rng, even in the form of free in game loot boxes / reqs, I’m passing. I refuse to support it.

> 2533274799617740;12:
> I believe the profits from REQ packs in 5 was also used to fund HCS which greatly benefits the community and lifespan of the game generally.

How did this greatly benefit me as a community member that has never watched, and has no intention of watching HCS ? All the req packs did was turn a great franchise into a tedious grind imo. As for lifespan, I dropped Halo 5 and never returned.

Edit = Sorry mods, messed up my quotes.

> 2533274813450476;13:
> > 2533274829873463;9:
> > > 2533274882881665;8:
> > >
> >
> > Shocked? maybe.
> > But from 343i’s track record every Halo game that has forced this…has made the games worse and has led to a backlash every time. Release date is not an excuse to defend predatory behaviour. There’s plenty of modern games right now that have none whatsoever and it certainly should not be be used to turn every game into a mindless grind or ‘pay for the chance’ to earn an item. I physically despise that some games have done this and it’s why I hate EA’s version of Battlefront. The more people try to accept it the more company’s think they can get away with it and micro-transactions is why I mostly avoid mobile gaming and after what happened with Halo 5…it actually made me feel a deep hatred towards loot box’s because I’m literally sick of opening them and I’m tired of the excuse that some try to make it sound ok just because some people think it’s ok to ‘tolerate’ them…despite them technically ruining how I usually prefer to enjoy playing my games.
> >
> > If 343i continue doing this then I strongly feel it will hurt Halo Infinite and further lead to fans trusting 343i less. Plus the way they have been talking about ‘games as a service’ has me concerned.
>
> Halo 5. That’s one game. All games from Halo 4 onward have been made by other developers, albeit with 343i insight. 343i has only directly made two games and only one had the microtransactions.

343i is directly responsible for all 3 games with them included and like I said every game that 343i have forced this has made the games worse. Halo 5, Spartan Assault and Halo Wars 2…Blitz was a failed experiment due to the pay to win elements, the hate from Spartan Assault led to the sequel removing them. All 3 games got plenty of backlash at launch and Halo 5 is actually what made me physically despise Loot Box’s, before that I barely tolerated them. At no point did I mention Halo 4 having them.

The one good thing I see in this is that real money loot boxes won’t be a thing, but that could mean that you pay for in game money to get loot boxes.

If they have to include loot boxes I’d want a 50/50 split on cosmetics you earn and cosmetics you randomly get through loot boxes, though I would prefer to buy cosmetics directly or buy game currency(or earn game currency) to get the item.

> 2533274829873463;17:
> > 2533274813450476;13:
> > > 2533274829873463;9:
> > > > 2533274882881665;8:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Shocked? maybe.
> > > But from 343i’s track record every Halo game that has forced this…has made the games worse and has led to a backlash every time. Release date is not an excuse to defend predatory behaviour. There’s plenty of modern games right now that have none whatsoever and it certainly should not be be used to turn every game into a mindless grind or ‘pay for the chance’ to earn an item. I physically despise that some games have done this and it’s why I hate EA’s version of Battlefront. The more people try to accept it the more company’s think they can get away with it and micro-transactions is why I mostly avoid mobile gaming and after what happened with Halo 5…it actually made me feel a deep hatred towards loot box’s because I’m literally sick of opening them and I’m tired of the excuse that some try to make it sound ok just because some people think it’s ok to ‘tolerate’ them…despite them technically ruining how I usually prefer to enjoy playing my games.
> > >
> > > If 343i continue doing this then I strongly feel it will hurt Halo Infinite and further lead to fans trusting 343i less. Plus the way they have been talking about ‘games as a service’ has me concerned.
> >
> > Halo 5. That’s one game. All games from Halo 4 onward have been made by other developers, albeit with 343i insight. 343i has only directly made two games and only one had the microtransactions.
>
> 343i is directly responsible for all 3 games with them included and like I said every game that 343i have forced this has made the games worse. Halo 5, Spartan Assault and Halo Wars 2…Blitz was a failed experiment due to the pay to win elements, the hate from Spartan Assault led to the sequel removing them. All 3 games got plenty of backlash at launch and Halo 5 is actually what made me physically despise Loot Box’s, before that I barely tolerated them. At no point did I mention Halo 4 having them.

HW2 isn’t bad from what I’ve heard and besides that’s one gamemode. I do agree with the point you made on halo 5, weapons and ESPECIALLY cosmetics shouldn’t be locked behind loot boxes.

The next problem is to sort out warzone, in my opinion warzone was fun, it could be immensely better without the p2w reqs , maybe make it so that you unlock more reqs when you complete warzone achievements e.g unlocking the binary rifle by having slain 2000 Promethean soldiers. The req level system in a match works fine as it is.

> 2533274829873463;17:
> > 2533274813450476;13:
> > > 2533274829873463;9:
> > > > 2533274882881665;8:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Shocked? maybe.
> > > But from 343i’s track record every Halo game that has forced this…has made the games worse and has led to a backlash every time. Release date is not an excuse to defend predatory behaviour. There’s plenty of modern games right now that have none whatsoever and it certainly should not be be used to turn every game into a mindless grind or ‘pay for the chance’ to earn an item. I physically despise that some games have done this and it’s why I hate EA’s version of Battlefront. The more people try to accept it the more company’s think they can get away with it and micro-transactions is why I mostly avoid mobile gaming and after what happened with Halo 5…it actually made me feel a deep hatred towards loot box’s because I’m literally sick of opening them and I’m tired of the excuse that some try to make it sound ok just because some people think it’s ok to ‘tolerate’ them…despite them technically ruining how I usually prefer to enjoy playing my games.
> > >
> > > If 343i continue doing this then I strongly feel it will hurt Halo Infinite and further lead to fans trusting 343i less. Plus the way they have been talking about ‘games as a service’ has me concerned.
> >
> > Halo 5. That’s one game. All games from Halo 4 onward have been made by other developers, albeit with 343i insight. 343i has only directly made two games and only one had the microtransactions.
>
> 343i is directly responsible for all 3 games with them included and like I said every game that 343i have forced this has made the games worse. Halo 5, Spartan Assault and Halo Wars 2…Blitz was a failed experiment due to the pay to win elements, the hate from Spartan Assault led to the sequel removing them. All 3 games got plenty of backlash at launch and Halo 5 is actually what made me physically despise Loot Box’s, before that I barely tolerated them. At no point did I mention Halo 4 having them.

I never said you said Halo 4 had them lol. And actually it’s really Microsoft that’s to blame. They force 343i to add microtransactions. There’s really no way to add them without backlash.

And no, 343i can’t be blamed for any of the games outside of Halo 5. Microsoft appoints an outside developer for those games and again, forces the MT on them. 343i only collaborates on those games for lore and story purposes.