Why was original multiplayer considered the best?

Games Other Halo
1

Why are there so many fans that think Halos 1-3 are far better than any other Halo. Either it is Halo CE fans saying that the first Halo has the most skill based multilayer or Halo 2 fans or even Halo 3 fans saying that the newer games aren’t as good. Halo Reach has good multiplayer, and Halo 4 has everything good about Reach made even better.

Whenever I play Halo TMCC, I get destroyed in Halo 2 and Halo 3. I didn’t have Xbox live until last year therefore never played Halo 2 or Halo 3 online during their prime. I cannot even enjoy Halo 2 or Halo 3 due to the massive skill gap. Halo 4 is my favorite and I am naturally good at it but Halo 2 just makes me want to throw my controller. Speaking as a long term fan that has played hours of Halo 3’s campaign, I have decided that Halo 2 and 3 online are not fun for me. I can’t get past skill rank 6 in Halo CE in TMCC.

2

Probably mainly because, it is the most balanced of all. Reach had unbalanced armor abilities (From what people say), Halo 4 had unbalanced… weapons, perks. Personnaly I’m more of a campaign guy rather than multiplayer, so if you want to know EXACTLY why, just wait for a response of someone that loves to play classic multiplayer or… whatever. :confused:

3

> 2533275010817669;2:
> Probably mainly because, it is the most balanced of all. Reach had unbalanced armor abilities (From what people say), Halo 4 had unbalanced… weapons, perks. Personnaly I’m more of a campaign guy rather than multiplayer, so if you want to know EXACTLY why, just wait for a response of someone that loves to play classic multiplayer or… whatever. :confused:

It is nice to see someone else who likes campaigns. I play multiplayer every so often but I started Halo as an offline gamer, therefore I get where you are coming from. Being new to Xbox Live, I am asking the community to explain the balance issues in Halo 4 vs classic Halos. Just playing single player, I never had balance problems and I still don’t see them in Halo 4.

4

It’s quite simple, actually. These original titles revolutionized console FPSes and online console gaming back in the day. People will sit here and defend the clearly unbalanced CE pistol or button combos in H2 that create a large skill gap between new and experienced players, but these things aren’t balanced and weren’t the reason why they made multiplayer successful. In many different ways, these old titles changed gaming and that’s why older fans still love these games.

5

> 2533274826191452;4:
> People will sit here and defend the clearly unbalanced CE pistol

Do you mind elaborating on why you think that Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced? Halo 1’s pistol has a fast minimum TTK but doesn’t the skill/difficultly required to properly achieve it’s fast minimum TTK balance out the pistol’s power? The reason why I’m asking for you to elaborate is because I’m curious to know what’s the main reason that’s causing such a huge disconnect between a person like myself that believes that Halo 1’s pistol is balanced and a person like yourself that believes that Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced.

I personally feel that the notion that Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced is just a misconception that is being perpetuated by people who are ill-informed on how Halo 1’s pistol functions.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlFkkAd2ZL8Anyways if there’s any chance that you’re basing your opinion of Halo 1’s pistol off of the MCC version of Halo 1 then please realize that Halo 1 on the MCC doesn’t play 100% exactly like the original Xbox version of Halo 1 because the game is plagued with a ton of bugs. The pistol in the original Xbox version of Halo 1 is harder to properly utilize than the pistol in the MCC version of Halo 1 especially for players that are playing off host.

I’m glad that some awesome people in the Halo community made neutral host edition for the original Halo 1 on the original Xbox so that way no one is at a disadvantage when playing. Well technically every player is playing off host when they’re playing Halo 1 neutral host edition on LAN but no players are at a disadvantage when playing.

6

> 2533274812166853;5:
> > 2533274826191452;4:
> > People will sit here and defend the clearly unbalanced CE pistol
>
> Do you mind elaborating on why you think that Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced? Halo 1’s pistol has a fast minimum TTK but doesn’t the skill/difficultly required to properly achieve it’s fast minimum TTK balance out the pistol’s power? The reason why I’m asking for you to elaborate is because I’m curious to know what’s the main reason that’s causing such a huge disconnect between a person like myself that believes that Halo 1’s pistol is balanced and a person like yourself that believes that Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced.
>
> I personally feel that the notion that Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced is just a misconception that is being perpetuated by people who are ill-informed on how Halo 1’s pistol functions.
> - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlFkkAd2ZL8Anyways if there’s any chance that you’re basing your opinion of Halo 1’s pistol off of the MCC version of Halo 1 then please realize that Halo 1 on the MCC doesn’t play 100% exactly like the original Xbox version of Halo 1 because the game is plagued with a ton of bugs. The pistol in the original Xbox version of Halo 1 is harder to properly utilize than the pistol in the MCC version of Halo 1 especially for players that are playing off host.
>
> I’m glad that some awesome people in the Halo community made neutral host edition for the original Halo 1 on the original Xbox so that way no one is at a disadvantage when playing. Well technically every player is playing off host when they’re playing Halo 1 neutral host edition on LAN but no players are at a disadvantage when playing.
> - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGYcpM2i_aE

I would love to. It is incredibly overpowered in multiplayer in all versions of the game, simple as that. I’m not saying it doesn’t require any skill to use, but it any newbie will get their butt kicked on just about any map if they don’t know to use the pistol. Again, there’s a large skill gap between a player that simply knows they should use a pistol versus one that doesn’t.

7

> 2533274826191452;6:
> > 2533274812166853;5:
> > > 2533274826191452;4:
> > > People will sit here and defend the clearly unbalanced CE pistol
> >
> > -Snip-
>
> I would love to. It is incredibly overpowered in multiplayer in all versions of the game, simple as that. I’m not saying it doesn’t require any skill to use, but it any newbie will get their butt kicked on just about any map if they don’t know to use the pistol. Again, there’s a large skill gap between a player that simply knows they should use a pistol versus one that doesn’t.

I don’t see how Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced when it has a good balanced ratio between power and required effort. I would agree with your notion that Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced if it was easy to achieve it’s minimum TTK with very little effort but that isn’t the case. Halo 1’s fast minimum TTK empowers skilled individual players to be able to get kills on their own in a timely manner without having to rely on team-shooting.

I highly recommend for you to read this thread because it talks about the importance of having a decent gap between the minimum TTK and the average TTK of an utility weapon and it also emphasizes the importance of Halo having an utility weapon that has a fast minimum TTK that is achieved through high effort. Here is a quote from the thread.

> As I move on from yet another Halo game that failed to hold my interest, I like to put some of my thoughts in writing.
>
> I’d like to address an issue that has, more than anything else, contributed to the degradation of Halo’s competitive viability: Minimum Kill Time vs. Average Kill Time. These metrics are incredibly revealing, as they provide insight into the speed and skill-depth of shooting. Not only does that impact the individual engagements of players, but also indirectly impacts nearly every other aspect of gameplay.
>
> The effectiveness of an individual player is inversely proportional to the kill time, so a longer kill time makes an individual player less effective. A well-balanced, competitive game should reward teamwork but should also reward individual ability as well. Since Halo CE, Halo games have failed to reward individual ability to a proper degree. Through a combination of slow kill times and shallow shooting skill-depth, individual players are rendered largely ineffective regardless of their ability relative to the other players. I will prove why.

Why do you believe that Halo 1 having a huge skill gap between individual players is a bad thing? The reason why Halo 1 has a large skill gap between players is because the game has a low skill floor(barrier of entry) but a high skill ceiling. Meaning that Halo 1 is easy to learn but hard to master. This means that average skilled Halo 1 players that have a very basic understanding of how the game plays at a competitive can demolish newcomers and low skilled players but this also means that top tier Halo 1 players that have a full grasp of how the game plays at a high level of competitive play can completely demolish average skilled Halo 1 players.

It seems to me that your real issue is getting unbalanced matchmaking games in the Halo 1 matchmaking playlist on the MCC. What balances games that have a huge skill gap between players is an adequate matchmaking ranking system that matches players appropriately. I can see why Halo 1 on the MCC can turn off newcomers and average skilled Halo 1 players because the MCC’s matchmaking ranking system is inadequate and doesn’t match players appropriately. Very low ranked players in MCC can match very high ranked players due to the fact that 343 loosened up the matchmaking search parameters. It also doesn’t help that there isn’t any party restrictions so solo queue players can match full parties.

8

> 2533274812166853;7:
> > 2533274826191452;6:
> > > 2533274812166853;5:
> > > > 2533274826191452;4:
> > > > People will sit here and defend the clearly unbalanced CE pistol
> > >
> > > -Snip-
> >
> > I would love to. It is incredibly overpowered in multiplayer in all versions of the game, simple as that. I’m not saying it doesn’t require any skill to use, but it any newbie will get their butt kicked on just about any map if they don’t know to use the pistol. Again, there’s a large skill gap between a player that simply knows they should use a pistol versus one that doesn’t.
>
> I don’t see how Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced when it has a good balanced ratio between power and required effort. I would agree with your notion that Halo 1’s pistol is unbalanced if it was easy to achieve it’s minimum TTK with very little effort but that isn’t the case. Halo 1’s fast minimum TTK empowers skilled individual players to be able to get kills on their own in a timely manner without having to rely on team-shooting.
>
> I highly recommend for you to read this thread because it talks about the importance of having a decent gap between the minimum TTK and the average TTK of an utility weapon and it also emphasizes the importance of Halo having an utility weapon that has a fast minimum TTK that is achieved through high effort. Here is a quote from the thread.
>
>
> >

Okay, you’re missing the point. This is a weapon that shoots fast and only takes three headshots to kill someone with. Sure, other weapons such as the AR and Shotgun are technically more ideal in close quarters, but that’s at a pretty short range. The pistol is effective at a much wider range than any other weapon, excluding the sniper. So, with a wide range of effectiveness and short KT, the weapon is almost a jack-of-all-trades. This is demonstrated well by those who use the weapon in matchmaking and those who don’t. Those who don’t never win and I don’t think that’s an exaggeration. Even the developers of the game called the weapon “wildly overpowered.” You also exaggerate on the required effort to use the weapon. Sure, most players won’t land all three headshots every time they use the gun, but it is still only three headshots, it’s not that hard, especially with bullet magnetism.

But don’t take any of this the wrong way, I love Halo CE, its pistol, and the fast kill-times, but I never thought its multiplayer or pistol was balanced.

9

> 2533274826191452;8:
> > 2533274812166853;7:
> > > 2533274826191452;6:
> > > > 2533274812166853;5:
> > > > > 2533274826191452;4:
> > > > > People will sit here and defend the clearly unbalanced CE pistol
> > > >
> > > > -Snip-
> > >
> > > -Snip-
> >
> > -Snip-

> 2533274826191452;8:
> -Snip-

Alright I just figured out the main crux of our disagreement. You either don’t understand the importance of having an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) in Halo or you don’t agree with the concept of Halo having an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) in Halo. I on the other hand believe that Halo should absolutely have an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) and that Halo 1’s pistol is the epitome of what an utility weapon should resemble in Halo.

IMO spawning without an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) and only spawning with a situational niche weapon such as the AR, plasma pistol, or plasma rifle isn’t conducive to an ideal competitive environment. The reason why I believe starting without an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) isn’t conducive to an ideal competitive environment is because players don’t start with a weapon that is adequate enough to be able to empower players to be able to defend themselves off spawn in various situations. As a result of players only spawning with a niche weapon such as the AR, plasma pistol, or plasma rifle the game starts to snowball because players aren’t able to effectively defend themselves against power weapons such as the rocket launcher and sniper rifle and other weapons on the map.

From my perspective the purpose of Halo 1’s pistol in Halo 1’s weapon sandbox is to act like a jack of all trades weapon by empowering individual players to be able to defend themselves off spawn in various situations which helps balance out the rest of the weapon sandbox and helps prevent games from snowballing. Like I emphasized earlier in my other posts, Halo 1’s pistol has a very fast minimal TTK but a longer average TTK, what balances out the power of the pistol is the difficulty to achieve it’s minimal TTK. Also like I emphasized earlier in my other posts, Halo 1’s pistol having a fast minimum TTK empowers skilled individual players to be able to get kills on their own in a timely manner without having to rely on team-shooting. Halo 1’s pistol’s fast minimum TTK helps improve the pacing of the game.

I highly recommend for you to read this post so you can get a deeper understanding of how Halo 1’s pistol functions. Here’s a TLDR quote from that post.

> The TLDR is: Halo 1’s pistol was so difficult to use because of the projectile speeds and the different aim assist. The lack of effectiveness of the aim assist system, the lack of headshot prioritization, and the projectile speed added a layer of difficulty on top.

Even though Halo 1’s pistol is the utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) of Halo 1 it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s absolutely the best weapon to use in every situation. Every weapon in Halo 1’s sandbox has a purpose except for the needler. I highly recommend for you to watch this youtube video because it does an excellent job of explaining the purpose of every weapon in Halo 1’s weapon sandbox and how to utilize them effectively. Just in case you decide to not watch the video I’m going to describe the purpose of every weapon in Halo 1’s sandbox to the best of my ability. I’m going to exclude describing the purpose of Halo 1’s pistol because I already did that earlier in this post. I’m going to do this in a completely different post though because this post is getting too long.

10

Here’s my post describing the purpose of every weapon in Halo 1’s sandbox with the exclusion of Halo 1’s pistol because I already described the purpose of the pistol earlier in my other post.

AR: Not as versatile as the pistol but still is a really decent close range niche weapon. The AR is a good melee weapon because it has a decent melee range and a fast melee animation. You can also quick camo with it since it doesn’t have a scope. Players also use it to light up and spot camo players. IMO the AR is pretty well balanced for the amount of skill required that it takes to utilize. Here is a clip of the AR being used pretty efficiently.

Plasma rifle: Very useful close range niche weapon. It drains shields very quickly so it’s really useful against players that have an over-shield. It also does extra damage when shooting at the head. Also the weapon can quick camo since it doesn’t have a scope. It is a very effective flanking weapon because it has a stun/slow turn effect. Players use it to circle strafe around their opponent to get back smacks and melee kills. Here are some clips of the plasma rifle being used efficiently.

Rocket launcher: The most effective, most powerful, and is usually the most pivotal item to control on most maps. Rockets spawn every two minutes on most maps. Rockets have the furthest melee range out of all of the weapons in the sandbox so it’s a great weapon to melee with. Rockets trump everything on most maps. Treat this as the most important item to control especially when playing on small maps like Prisoner and Chill Out. Not as effective on open-air maps such as Hang 'Em High. Has a slow ROF and slow reload time to help balance out it’s power.

Sniper rifle: Is a long range power weapon but is treated more like an alternative to the pistol since it spawns every 30 seconds on most maps and is harder to use than the pistol. Has a fast rate of fire to be able to counter the pistol’s fast TTK and is very effective at killing opponents that are unaware of your positioning on the map. More effective than the pistol at long range combat. Very deadly in the hands of a skilled player especially when paired with camo and another weapon to quick camo with such as the shotgun or AR.

Needler: The least useful niche weapon in the entire sandbox. Doesn’t track players that well so it’s useless against a moving opponent. Also it’s not a great weapon to melee with because it’s melee range is short. You can’t even quick camo with it. The needler has no purpose other than trying to humiliate your opponent with it. The weapon is only useful in campaign.

11

Well, quite simply, the gameplay was modular. Movement and combat occurred on the same plane, which is the base style of any good arena shooter.

Halo’s 1, 2, and 3 all have one max movement speed, and one max jump height that can be marginally increased by crouching in mid air. Duels most often come down to player accuracy with either the Magnum in CE or the BR in 2 and 3. You don’t have thrusters or sprinting to escape, so you have to be more cunning. Crouching, jumping, and of course, strafing, can all help to turn a headshot into a bodyshot and give you time to execute a reversal.
This ‘dance’ is what made Halo so beautifully addicting. Its simplicity lends it to far more variation.
Take this 1v1 encounter and apply it to 1v2, if you think fast, you can beat both of them. Learn to bounce grenades off walls, ‘ninja’ people by crouch jumping backwards over their head, and you can take out 3 or 4 without even using a power weapon. You add in the so called ‘golden triangle’ (Weapon, Melee, Grenade) and you have your base formula. You can then apply variations like verticality, movement objects (man-cannons), vehicles, etc, because it lends itself to said variations, it’s adaptable.

The satisfaction of out-thinking another player is always (to me, anyway) far more rewarding than merely outgunning or outmanoeuvring them.
I don’t get satisfaction from sprinting to hide in a corner and shotgunning the player who was dumb enough to chase me,
I don’t get satisfaction from ground-pounding another player because they weren’t looking up at that particular moment.
I do get satisfaction by dodging someone’s melee by crouching and managing to counter an ambush because they didn’t react quickly enough.
Halo 2 and 3 are thinking player’s games, which creates that skill gap you mentioned. But they also cater to the brainless, when you want to take a pit-stop on the ‘Road to 50’, or if you’re just not interested, there’s always games like Infection, BTB, Juggernaut, Fiesta, Race, Griffball…and the gameplay didn’t change to fulfil these game-modes, the game-modes evolved from the gameplay, which I think is a testament in itself to how adaptable it was. This applies to Campaign and Firefight as well.

Also, this style of gameplay…it isn’t present in any games right now, nor was it back then. Halo’s golden age (halo 2 and 3 specifically) formula was and is completely unique, and no other game on the market offers what it did, which is why even people like me, the more ‘realist’ of the classic fans, people who aren’t blinded by nostalgia goggles and can point to the older games and recognise their flaws, still want the older style back. Because we want 343 to fix the problems with the older style and make it better than Bungie could, heck, Halo 2 Anniversary’s gameplay fully realised would be ideal to me, that multiplayer suite is quite literally what I want Halo 6 (or at least the spin-off after it) to be.

Oh and, MCC isn’t the best exposure to these games, while there is a hefty skill-gap in Halo 2, it would be manageable had you been placed against players of relatively equal skill, which MCC isn’t known for doing…it’s kind of a ‘you had to be there’ thing with 2 and 3, which Is why I find it understandable that newer players just can’t relate…

12

> 2533274812166853;10:
> Here’s my post describing the purpose of every weapon in Halo 1’s sandbox with the exclusion of Halo 1’s pistol because I already described the purpose of the pistol earlier in my other post.
>
> AR: Not as versatile as the pistol but still is a really decent close range niche weapon. The AR is a good melee weapon because it has a decent melee range and a fast melee animation. You can also quick camo with it since it doesn’t have a scope. Players also use it to light up and spot camo players. IMO the AR is pretty well balanced for the amount of skill required that it takes to utilize. Here is a clip of the AR being used pretty efficiently.
>
> Plasma rifle: Very useful close range niche weapon. It drains shields very quickly so it’s really useful against players that have an over-shield. It also does extra damage when shooting at the head. Also the weapon can quick camo since it doesn’t have a scope. It is a very effective flanking weapon because it has a stun/slow turn effect. Players use it to circle strafe around their opponent to get back smacks and melee kills. Here are some clips of the plasma rifle being used efficiently.
> - Doughboy's Montage (Raw) - YouTube - Watch bottom screen’s PoV.Plasma pistol: Just like the plasma rifle the plasma pistol has a stun/slow turn effect but only when you spam the trigger. Unlike the plasma rifle the plasma pistol doesn’t have a head shot bonus. Also since the weapon overheats really fast by spamming the trigger it’s better to finish off kills in conjunction with a melee or grenades. You can circle strafe around your opponent with it just like you can with the plasma rifle to get back smacks and melee kills. The charged shot is very effect at taking out shields but it doesn’t track as well as Halo 2’s plasma pistol does so it might be more effective to just spam the trigger. Also the weapon can quick camo since it doesn’t have a scope. Here is some clips of the plasma pistol being used efficiently.
> - Doughboy's Montage (Raw) - YouTube - Watch bottom screen’s PoV. - Watch bottom screen’s PoV. - Watch top screen’s PoV.Shotgun: The ultimate close/ medium range niche weapon. Very effective in conjunction with the sniper since you can easily finish off kills with the shotgun when making your opponent weak with the sniper. Also you can quick camo with it since it doesn’t have a scope. Here is a clip of players using the shotgun efficiently.
>
> Rocket launcher: The most effective, most powerful, and is usually the most pivotal item to control on most maps. Rockets spawn every two minutes on most maps. Rockets have the furthest melee range out of all of the weapons in the sandbox so it’s a great weapon to melee with. Rockets trump everything on most maps. Treat this as the most important item to control especially when playing on small maps like Prisoner and Chill Out. Not as effective on open-air maps such as Hang 'Em High. Has a slow ROF and slow reload time to help balance out it’s power.
>
> Sniper rifle: Is a long range power weapon but is treated more like an alternative to the pistol since it spawns every 30 seconds on most maps and is harder to use than the pistol. Has a fast rate of fire to be able to counter the pistol’s fast TTK and is very effective at killing opponents that are unaware of your positioning on the map. More effective than the pistol at long range combat. Very deadly in the hands of a skilled player especially when paired with camo and another weapon to quick camo with such as the shotgun or AR.
>
> Needler: The least useful niche weapon in the entire sandbox. Doesn’t track players that well so it’s useless against a moving opponent. Also it’s not a great weapon to melee with because it’s melee range is short. You can’t even quick camo with it. The needler has no purpose other than trying to humiliate your opponent with it. The weapon is only useful in campaign.

Yes, every weapon has a purpose but the better players use the Magnum most of the time. When I started playing Halo CE multiplayer, my biggest mistake was that I would charge with an AR. Now, I recognize noobs by there lack of using the Magnum(like me). I disagree with you about a “jack of all trades” weapon. I hate that Halo 1 and 2 have their general weapons that destroy everyone not skilled at using them. Magnums and BRs are both overpowered, leading to too much skill gap. I like Halo 4 because I can spawn with what I want without everyone using the same weapon. I believe a game should be made where new gamers and expierienced gamers can play together without much gap. I still suck at Halo CE and Halo 2. Halo 2 is a game that I have no clue what I’m doing in. I think Halo 4 is easy to learn which is why I like it. I don’t think games should focus around competitiveness and more casual. At the end of the day, a game is just for fun. Why should a high amount of skill be required? I don’t have time to play thousands of multiplayer matches of classic Halo 2, getting killed the whole time. I am not one of those players who just plays the same multiplayer for weeks on end.

13

> 2533274900668879;11:
> Well, quite simply, the gameplay was modular. Movement and combat occurred on the same plane, which is the base style of any good arena shooter.
>
> Halo’s 1, 2, and 3 all have one max movement speed, and one max jump height that can be marginally increased by crouching in mid air. Duels most often come down to player accuracy with either the Magnum in CE or the BR in 2 and 3. You don’t have thrusters or sprinting to escape, so you have to be more cunning. Crouching, jumping, and of course, strafing, can all help to turn a headshot into a bodyshot and give you time to execute a reversal.
> This ‘dance’ is what made Halo so beautifully addicting. Its simplicity lends it to far more variation.
> Take this 1v1 encounter and apply it to 1v2, if you think fast, you can beat both of them. Learn to bounce grenades off walls, ‘ninja’ people by crouch jumping backwards over their head, and you can take out 3 or 4 without even using a power weapon. You add in the ‘golden triangle’ (Weapon, Melee, Grenade) and you have your base formula. You can then apply variations like verticality, movement objects (man-cannons), vehicles, etc, because it lends itself to said variations, it’s adaptable.
>
> The satisfaction of out-thinking another player is always (to me, anyway) far more rewarding than merely outgunning or outmanoeuvring them.
> I don’t get satisfaction from sprinting to hide in a corner and shotgunning the player who was dumb enough to chase me,
> I don’t get satisfaction from ground-pounding another player because they weren’t looking up at that particular moment.
> I do get satisfaction by dodging someone’s melee by crouching and managing to counter an ambush because they didn’t react quickly enough.
> Halo 2 and 3 are thinking player’s games, which creates that skill gap you mentioned. But they also cater to the brainless, when you want to take a pit-stop on the ‘Road to 50’, or if you’re just not interested, there’s always games like Infection, BTB, Juggernaut, Fiesta, Race, Griffball…and the gameplay didn’t change to fulfil these game-modes, the game-modes evolved from the gameplay, which I think is a testament in itself to how adaptable it was. This applies to Campaign and Firefight as well.
>
> Also, this style of gameplay…it isn’t present in any games right now, nor was it back then. Halo’s golden age (halo 2 and 3 specifically) formula was and is completely unique, and no other game on the market offers what it did, which is why even people like me, the more ‘realist’ of the classic fans, people who aren’t blinded by nostalgia goggles and can point to the older games and recognise their flaws, still want the older style back. Because we want 343 to fix the problems with the older style and make it better than Bungie could, heck, Halo 2 Anniversary’s gameplay fully realised would be ideal to me, that multiplayer suite is quite literally what I want Halo 6 (or at least the spin-off after it) to be.
>
> Oh and, MCC isn’t the best exposure to these games, while there is a hefty skill-gap in Halo 2, it would be manageable had you been placed against players of relatively equal skill, which MCC isn’t known for doing…it’s kind of a ‘you had to be there’ thing with 2 and 3, which Is why I find it understandable that newer players just can’t relate…

Couldn’t have said it better myself. This style of gameplay need to make a return.

14

Would someone please care to explain how AA or sprinting breaks a game? I think being killed instantly by a Magnum in Halo CE breaks the game but no one mentions that. Or why I shoot an entire clip into an enemy without any effect and am killed with two shots.

Halo 4 is my favorite multiplayer game and favorite Halo campaign. I might be in the minority, but why is competitiveness considered better than a casual game rewarding less skilled players? Halo 2 is filled with players that reach the weapons first and find out how to get in places that I can’t reach(Halo 2A,Shrine: No clue how snipers get up top middle).

Halos with sprinting happen to be the Halos that I am the best at. Whatever game-breaking mechanics that 343i keeps adding, it seems to be helping me become better. Generally, older the game, the worse I play.

15

> 2533274900668879;11:
> Well, quite simply, the gameplay was modular. Movement and combat occurred on the same plane, which is the base style of any good arena shooter.
>
> Halo’s 1, 2, and 3 all have one max movement speed, and one max jump height that can be marginally increased by crouching in mid air. Duels most often come down to player accuracy with either the Magnum in CE or the BR in 2 and 3. You don’t have thrusters or sprinting to escape, so you have to be more cunning. Crouching, jumping, and of course, strafing, can all help to turn a headshot into a bodyshot and give you time to execute a reversal.
> This ‘dance’ is what made Halo so beautifully addicting. Its simplicity lends it to far more variation.
> Take this 1v1 encounter and apply it to 1v2, if you think fast, you can beat both of them. Learn to bounce grenades off walls, ‘ninja’ people by crouch jumping backwards over their head, and you can take out 3 or 4 without even using a power weapon. You add in the ‘golden triangle’ (Weapon, Melee, Grenade) and you have your base formula. You can then apply variations like verticality, movement objects (man-cannons), vehicles, etc, because it lends itself to said variations, it’s adaptable.
>
> The satisfaction of out-thinking another player is always (to me, anyway) far more rewarding than merely outgunning or outmanoeuvring them.

The problem I have, is that I don’t know how to ‘ninja’ people. I never heard about that until now. When I am playing Halo 2, I feel like there are no abilities or complex strategies but everyone else know how to do combo moves and grenade bounces. I guess there is a strategy, I just don’t know. I need to play matches against people with no classic Halo experience like me. I have enjoyed the campaigns of the classic Halos for years, but multiplayer is something that I can’t get down.

16

> 2535416616313329;12:
> > 2533274812166853;10:
> > -Snip-
>
> -Snip-

It seems to me that you’re too fixated on the equality of outcome and not the equality of opportunity. Please realize that you have the same opportunity as every other player to become good at Halo 1 it’s just the onus is on you to challenge yourself to improve as a player by stepping out of your comfort zone.

From my perspective Halo 1 having a large skill gap between players is a good thing because it helps give the game longevity. I think the main issue that is causing you to have such a bad experience with Halo 1, Halo 2, and Halo 3 is that you’re having unbalanced matchmaking games due to the MCC’s inadequate ranking system that doesn’t match players appropriately. Like I stated earlier in one of my other posts the main reason for unbalanced matchmaking games in the MCC is that 343 loosened up the matchmaking search parameters so low ranked players can match very high ranked players. I also said that another issue that can cause unbalanced matchmaking games in the MCC is that there isn’t any party restrictions so solo queue players can match full parties.

Loadouts in Halo 4 made the game have uneven weapon starts and uneven player traits. Uneven weapon starts and uneven player traits in Halo leads to randomness and randomness isn’t conducive to an ideal competitive environment. This is why players like myself strongly advocated for 343 to get rid of the loadout system that they implemented into Halo 4 and for them to bring back even weapon starts and even player traits for the next iteration of Halo. The strong backlash that 343 received from the Halo community for implementing a loadout system in Halo 4 is one of the main reasons why 343 brought back even weapon starts and even player traits in Halo 5.

You might disagree with the concept of Halo having an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) like Halo 1’s pistol but please realize that Halo’s two weapon carry limit greatly limits what an individual player is capable of accomplishing on their own. This is why it’s crucial for Halo to have an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) like Halo 1’s pistol so that skilled players are capable of being able to kill their opponents on their own in a timely manner in a variety of situations.

Here’s a quote from this thread that emphasizes the importance of Halo having an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) that is similar to Halo 1’s pistol that empowers skilled players to be able to kill their opponents on their own in a timely manner in a variety of situations.

“The effectiveness of an individual player is inversely proportional to the kill time, so a longer kill time makes an individual player less effective. A well-balanced, competitive game should reward teamwork but should also reward individual ability as well. Since Halo CE, Halo games have failed to reward individual ability to a proper degree. Through a combination of slow kill times and shallow shooting skill-depth, individual players are rendered largely ineffective regardless of their ability relative to the other players.”

Arena shooters such as Quake have no need for an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) because as far as I’m aware they don’t have a weapon carry limit so players are capable of being able to carry an unlimited amount of weapons. This means that Quake players are able to immediately switch to the weapon they need to use in any given situation as long as they have obtained the weapon from the map. Being able to carry an unlimited amount of weapons in Quake enables players to be able to be very lethal on their own as long as they’re skilled enough and have obtained the necessary weapons from the map. I could see the validity of the argument that Halo doesn’t need an utility weapon(jack of all trades weapon) like Halo 1’s pistol if Halo had no weapon carry limit like Arena shooters such as Quake so players could carry an unlimited amount of weapons at a time but that isn’t the case.

I can understand the desire to just want to play casual video games because it’s very relaxing. I can see how a game like Halo 4 appeals to you because the game has a low skill floor(barrier of entry), a low skill ceiling, and a low skill gap between players. That being said Halo 1, Halo 2, and Halo 3 have a pretty low skill floor(barrier of entry) similar to Halo 4’s skill floor but they have a much bigger skill ceiling than Halo 4 resulting in having a much bigger skill gap than Halo 4’s skill gap.

Halo 1, Halo 2, and Halo 3 having a low skill floor but a higher skill ceiling allows for the games to have more competitive viability than a game like Halo 4. Just because Halo 1, Halo 2, and Halo 3 have a higher skill ceiling and a higher skill gap than Halo 4 doesn’t necessarily mean that they can’t be played casually as well. IMO the best way to play Halo 1, Halo 2, and Halo 3 casually is by playing fun and wacky custom games with your friends.

The ideals that I desire for a video game to possess are a low skill floor(barrier of entry) so that the game can be accessible to newcomers but a high skill ceiling so that the game can appropriately reward skilled players that are dedicated to playing the game. My observation of video games over the years has lead me to believe that the multiplayer video games that have the most longevity and competitive viability are games such as Super Smash Bros Melee that have a low skill floor(barrier of entry) but a high skill ceiling.

I mean look at how active the Super Smash Bros Melee grassroots competitive scene is despite being nearly a 16 year old game. The only competitive Halo scene that can even somewhat compare to the Super Bros Melee’s grassroots competitive scene is the Halo 1 competitive scene because they are the only group of players in the Halo community that still have an active grassroots scene that goes to LAN events frequently. It’s amazing to me that both Super Smash Bros Melee and Halo CE still have an active grassroots competitive scene despite them both being nearly 16 years old games.

17

xxcloud7xx, it is funny that you think Halo 4 is unbalanced but have played all the way to Rank 130. I am on 79.

I do try to get better at Half CE, but have you ever gone 5 kills to 50 deaths against expierienced players? My teammates have gotten mad at me for not knowing where rockets are and dying over and over. I have noticed a slight improvement, due to knowing the map layouts and understanding the power of a the Magnum.

I have been focusing on Halo 3 and have started to play better. The Halo 3 BR is horrible in range though. I don’t know how people use that thing. It is supposed to have something call “bullet lag” but I have issues with that. I would take DMR bloom over bullet lag.

18

> 2535416616313329;15:
> > 2533274900668879;11:
> > ----------------------
>
> The problem I have, is that I don’t know how to ‘ninja’ people. I never heard about that until now.

Exactly my point, you don’t know how to perform these skill based maneuvers because you aren’t in an environment that allows you to practice learning them. This is what I meant when I said ‘you had to be there’, MCC’s population is low which feeds into the poor matchmaking which in turn leads to you being matched against people who have played Halo 2 since 2004 onwards.

> When I am playing Halo 2, I feel like there are no abilities or complex strategies but everyone else know how to do combo moves and grenade bounces. I guess there is a strategy, I just don’t know.

The newer games neuter the skill gap, Sprint and Thrusters allow you to escape and Jetpacks eliminate your need to learn skill jumps, etc. There are less strategies in the newer games because the abilities negate previously established ones, so it’s actually the opposite of what a lot of people think.
The problem is that the strategies in the older games are skill based, not control based; grenade bouncing, crouch and grenade jumping, ‘ninja-ing’, they evolved from the base mechanics and created a skill ‘gap’ between advanced and novice players, they take time and practice to learn, which is, as other players have stated, a good thing for the game’s longevity, just not-so good when you don’t have an equal environment to utilise them.

> I need to play matches against people with no classic Halo experience like me. I have enjoyed the campaigns of the classic Halos for years, but multiplayer is something that I can’t get down.

If you want to ‘git gud’ at Halo 2 and 3, I recommend going around the maps in custom games or Forge in 3’s case, learn the quickest routes, look online and practice skill jumps, and timing weapon spawns, map control is arguably the most important thing to learn in Multiplayer. You get that down, and you’ll do much better in all of your games, trust me.
Considering MCC’s matchmaking, you might still get wrecked occasionally, but unfortunately that’s unavoidable, and at least it’ll be a start.

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> 2535416616313329;17:
> xxcloud7xx, it is funny that you think Halo 4 is unbalanced but have played all the way to Rank 130. I am on 79.

Let me tell you the origin story of how I got into the online aspect of Halo. I got into the online aspect of Halo with Halo 3 back in 2007. I played the online multiplayer of Halo 3 until Halo Reach came out in 2010 and I played the online multiplayer of Halo Reach until Halo 4 came out near the end of 2012. I played the online multiplayer of Halo 4 until Halo the MCC came out for the Xbox One near the end of 2014.

When Halo the MCC was announced I decided to look up informative youtube videos for both Halo 1 and Halo 2 because they inrigued me and I wanted to help accelerate my process of learning Halo 1’s and Halo 2’s multiplayer. Once I started playing Halo 1’s multiplayer on the MCC my entire perspective of the Halo series started changing. Nowadays I only play Halo 1’s multiplayer because I can’t seem to get enjoyment anymore from playing any of the other Halo games.

My new found perspective of the Halo series has allowed me to recognize the flaws of the other Halo games in the series because I was able to critically analyze the multiplayer of Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5. From my perspective the flaws of Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5’s multiplayer greatly out outweigh any redeeming qualities that they have. I also acknowledge that Halo 1’s multiplayer has some flaws as well because I realize that no game is 100% perfect but from my perspective it’s positive qualities greatly outweighs it’s negative qualities.

> 2535416616313329;17:
> I do try to get better at Half CE, but have you ever gone 5 kills to 50 deaths against expierienced players? My teammates have gotten mad at me for not knowing where rockets are and dying over and over. I have noticed a slight improvement, due to knowing the map layouts and understanding the power of a the Magnum.

I understand the struggle of trying to improve as a player while playing against more experienced Halo 1 players because I didn’t get into the competitive aspect of Halo 1’s multiplayer until the MCC came out. That being said I utilized informative Halo 1 youtube videos and informative Halo 1 websites as learning tools to help accelerate my learning process. If you want to go ahead and feel free to either send me a friend’s request or a message on XBL and I can try to teach you the basics of Halo 1. I’m no where close to being a top tier Halo 1 player but I know enough about the game to be able to show you the basic essentials of the game.

Anyways please keep in mind when playing Halo 1 on the MCC that the game doesn’t play 100% exactly like the original Xbox verison of Halo 1 because the game is plagued with a ton of bugs due to 343 deciding to use the PC port of Halo 1 for Halo 1 on the MCC which already had a ton of issues to begin with instead of using the original Xbox port of Halo 1. The only true way you can get the authentic Halo 1 experience is by either LANning the original Xbox version of Halo 1 or playing the original Xbox version of Halo 1 online by using tunneling programs such as xLAN, XLink Kai, or XBC.

Here are a bunch of informative Halo 1 sources that I highly recommend for you to utilize as learning tools to help accelerate your learning process.

> 2535416616313329;17:
> I have been focusing on Halo 3 and have started to play better. The Halo 3 BR is horrible in range though. I don’t know how people use that thing. It is supposed to have something call “bullet lag” but I have issues with that. I would take DMR bloom over bullet lag.

I absolutely despise Halo 3’s BR. I hate Halo 3’s random BR spread because it makes engagements random and it greatly hinders it’s effective range. I also hate how ridiculously long Halo 3’s BR TTK is because it greatly hinders what an individual player is capable of accomplishing on their own. I personally prefer using Halo 1’s pistol over Halo 3’s BR because it’s fast minimal TTK empowers skilled individual players to be able to kill their opponents on their own in a timely manner without having to rely on team-shooting.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNo-WyMbGHs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ079MdYA08That being said Halo 3’s BR is a projectile weapon just like Halo 1’s pistol is. In order for you to be able to be somewhat effective at medium and long range with Halo 3’s BR you have to lead your shots in front of your moving opponent. To take some advantage of Halo 3’s BR spread I highly recommend shooting at your opponent’s chest for the first three shots and then shooting at his head for the 4th last shot.

Also don’t even get me started on Halo Reach’s DMR bloom. Halo Reach’s DMR bloom was horrendous for competitive play because it made engagements random. The only thing that made Halo Reach somewhat competitively viable was the title update that allowed for the DMR to have zero bloom. MLGv7 settings with no bloom and no sprint was a godsend for Halo Reach.

20

Changing the subject, does anybody else think that Halo TMCC appeals to less committed players that don’t mind jumping around Halos? I love the original Halo 4, but the MCC: Halo 4 isn’t as good. I tried the original Halo 3 after playing it on the MCC. It was actually a little better. I like to play one game at a time rather than jump between different games. I think my Halo 4 strategy actually works against me in Halo 3. And why combine Halo BTB? I had a lot of fun playing Halo 4 BTB but know rarely get it. And why do so many Halo 4 modes lack full loadouts and personal ordinance? If someone doesn’t want those, they don’t like Halo 4.

Most of the time, when I play the MCC, I am playing the Halo 2A. After all that was what is was made for (that and Halo CE on live). Why didn’t 343i add more Anniversary maps instead of just 7? Halo TMCC is great for campaigns and a mix of multiplayer for casual gamers, but it doesn’t offer enough game specific options and has a bad matchmaking system, alienating casuals. I’m not sure which group is more irritated, casuals or hardcore.