Why the Spartan Laser needs to die

This weapon is a problem for any future balancing of vehicle combat and I will explain why.

In order to balance a power weapon, one must follow these guidelines:

  1. That weapon must take a relatively high amount of skill to successfully get kills with.
  2. That weapon must have a niche (close, medium, long range) that it is most effective in and should not be too effective at other ranges.
  3. That weapon’s ammo supply must be very limited (respawn times also fall into this rule).

Of course, you can bend or even break one of these rules and still have a balanced power weapon so long as the other remaining rules are compensated (or even add weapon specific balances that we will get to later). How does the rocket launcher compare? It doesn’t take a lot of skill to use effectively, but it makes up for that in its close-medium range niche, very small supply of ammo, and extremely long respawn time. How about the Sniper? It is arguably one of the most skill-demanding weapons out of all the power weapons, has a long range niche, and usually has a dozen or less shots.

Now let us look at the Spartan Laser. It is primarily an anti-vehicle weapon, but can also be used effectively as an anti-personnel weapon. I can’t imagine keeping your cross-hair on an enemy vehicle for 3 seconds to be considered skillful, nor can I pinpoint an exact niche for the Laser because the laser travels almost instantaneously, allowing for extreme range shots, and the weapon isn’t too bad in close range due to the fact that the Laser fires not one, but a few laser bursts per shot, and not all of the bursts need to hit to land a kill which means “sweeping” with the laser is an effective CQB tactic.

The Laser has 5 shots, one more than the traditional Rocket Launcher, and each shot can destroy even the most heavily armored Tank. One of the specific balancing features of the Laser is the red light that paints anything you are charging up at, which gives your victim fair warning and time to hide. Unfortunately, a good strategy of only aiming at your target when you are at the peak of charging your Laser and/or a combination of Lag effectively negates that effort of balance.

So, to sum up:

  1. Little input of skill needed
  2. Almost non-existent niche
  3. 5 shots (I’ll let you decide if this is balanced or not)

Failing to meet two out of three of these guidelines doesn’t necessarily damn the Laser into being unbalanced, but I’ll offer up my second point in assessing the Laser’s balance.

Under normal circumstances vehicles should absolutely roll infantry to their grave, but if that infantry possesses a power (or anti-vehicle) weapon, the balance is tipped in the infantry’s favor. When balancing this scenario of an infantry (with a power weapon) versus a vehicle, one must never forget the skill v skill relationship between the two. That is:

  1. It must take skill from the weapon the infantry is using to take down the vehicle.
  2. You must give the pilot of said vehicle a chance (no matter how small) of using their skills at driving/piloting to dodge the infantry’s shot and escaping alive.

Not without both of these requirements met can you consider any anti-vehicle weapon “balanced” (keep in mind, IMO). One of the greatest examples of this balance in theory were the weapons that fired locked-on projectiles. The Halo 2 Rocket Launcher, the Halo Reach Rocket Launcher versus Air, The Missile Pod, and the Plasma Launcher all fall into this category. It required good positioning of the shooter of these weapons to score a hit on these vehicles, and at the same time it took skill from the pilot of these vehicles to successfully evade these projectiles. In reality, with the exception of the Halo 2 Rockets (and perhaps even the Reach Rockets against air), these weapons were considered under-powered against vehicles, but not because these weapons fulfilled points #1 and #2 above, The projectiles were under-powered because they fired much too slow and were easily evade-able by vehicles.

Does the Laser fulfill any of these 2 rules? Do you think it is fair that a weapon should demand little skill from the user and give the pilot of said vehicle no chance to use their skills at driving/piloting their vehicle to escape death? Is this the future of Halo you want to play in?

I suggest scrapping the laser entirely and bring back a projectile based weapon that requires a lock-on in order to track vehicles. You could even bring back the Plasma Launcher or Missile Pod, except this time buff the speed of the projectiles. As an added side-note you could also give the pilot a warning when projectiles are homing in on the driver’s rear. Bad drivers/pilots may freak out but the good drivers/pilots will have a chance to show off their skills and successfully evade these projectiles. Of course, correct balancing won’t make vehicles completely dominant over infantry, it will just give the good drivers/pilots an increased skill ceiling to improve their abilities and dominate the battlefield.

TL;DR: ^ Last two paragraphs

> This weapon is a problem for any future balancing of vehicle combat and I will explain why.
>
> In order to balance a power weapon, one must follow these guidelines:
> 1) That weapon must take a relatively high amount of skill to successfully get kills with.

since when did a shotgun or rocket launcher take skill?

> > This weapon is a problem for any future balancing of vehicle combat and I will explain why.
> >
> > In order to balance a power weapon, one must follow these guidelines:
> > 1) That weapon must take a relatively high amount of skill to successfully get kills with.
>
> since when did a shotgun or rocket launcher take skill?

Agreed, I can hit people with the Rocket, but the shotgun is a power weapon. Also, the spartan laser is just fine, hell, Halo 3’s it had 8 shots or more before it is dead. Reach’s can fire 4 shots, and then it’s dead, I say leave it. it’s not like a homing rocket or gauss round, you at lest some one is going to fire at you, and you have to charge it to fire it. Out of all of the heavy anti vehicle weapons it takes the most skill to fire it, unless your target is stupid and tries to run you over.

> > This weapon is a problem for any future balancing of vehicle combat and I will explain why.
> >
> > In order to balance a power weapon, one must follow these guidelines:
> > 1) That weapon must take a relatively high amount of skill to successfully get kills with.
>
> since when did a shotgun or rocket launcher take skill?

firing a rocket does take some skill. if you fire a rocket straight ahead at your enemy, he can easily dodge it. its better to fire it at the ground surrounding your enemy, as the splash damage will usually kill him/her

Umm…OP? Have you played Reach AT ALL? I’ve hit Mongeese with the laser and they DIDN’T DIE.

It’s a useless piece of crap and should return to it’s Halo 3 form. In my experience, it was never a huge problem because Halo 3 actually had enough vehicles to ensure that the laser couldn’t kill all of them. Halo 3’s maps were also much better designed in relation to laser placement–take Valhalla, for example. The laser is smack-dab in the middle of it, so the user can only get a maximum of two shots off (neither of which may kill a vehicle if the driver is good enough) before someone engages him with the BR at medium-close range.

Besides that, its new ammo bank is ridiculous, four shots? That’s enough for…a Banshee piloted by an idiot and a Warthog, because it can take three shots to kill one (again, WTF???). You can do more than that with a rocket launcher, in less shots if you’re lucky.

The laser is hilarious and needs to stay. The halo 3 laser was great, the reach one blows, half the time it doesn’t even blow up warthogs in 1 shot.

It is way more balanced than rockets and makes a good neutral weapon on BTB maps.

Also how is long respawn time on rockets a defence for them? The same can be applied to laser, respawn time has nothing to with the mechanics of the weapon itself since it can be modified.

> > This weapon is a problem for any future balancing of vehicle combat and I will explain why.
> >
> > In order to balance a power weapon, one must follow these guidelines:
> > 1) That weapon must take a relatively high amount of skill to successfully get kills with.
>
> since when did a shotgun or rocket launcher take skill?

I see that was the extent you read my post. -_-

5 lines down:

> Of course, you can bend or even break one of these rules and still have a balanced power weapon so long as the other remaining rules are compensated (or even add weapon specific balances that we will get to later).

> Out of all of the heavy anti vehicle weapons it takes the most skill to fire it, unless your target is stupid and tries to run you over.

How many heavy anti-vehicle weapons are there? The plasma launcher easily out-classes the laser in terms of skill to use, simply because the projectiles of the plasma launcher aren’t hitscan, which requires good placement and vantage from the shooter to ensure consistent hits.

> It is way more balanced than rockets and makes a good neutral weapon on BTB maps.
>
> Also how is long respawn time on rockets a defence for them? The same can be applied to laser, respawn time has nothing to with the mechanics of the weapon itself since it can be modified.

I don’t understand how shutting an entire team’s vehicle gameplay down is balanced, and I also don’t understand how the equivalent “skill” needed with the Laser to shut down these vehicles can be considered anywhere near “balanced”. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

And the laser having a consistent respawn time across virtually every map means I can discuss the general cases of the Laser’s respawn as an influence on its balancing, but that isn’t really the main point to be discussed here.

> The laser is smack-dab in the middle of it, so the user can only get a maximum of two shots off (neither of which may kill a vehicle if the driver is good enough) before someone engages him with the BR at medium-close range.

So how am I as a driver supposed to evade the Laser that is hitscan and probably won’t even give me a warning much less time to evade the shot (3 seconds to evade, less considering human reaction times and vehicle reaction times).

Personally, the Spartan Laser is anti-vehicle and not anti-personal. It shouldn’t be on the map unless vehicles are part of the mix or the game-type is intended to be a bit unorthodox or the Sniper is removed in place of it (like Stand-Off).
So, in other words, it should stay.

And by vehicles, I mean stuff more powerful than the scout-classes.

I also think that in the spirit of design, Highlands shouldn’t have the Plasma Launcher opposing the Laser.
That is too asymmetrical in weapon placement in general. And with Highlands’ pretty symmetrical setup, it creates an unnecessary lopsidedness from the start that can continue throughout the match.
The Laser on the island with 2 PLs on either side of the kill box would be better IMO. But honestly, I’d prefer Rocks where the Laser and PL are with PLs being back in the base instead of the Rocks being there. Snipers can stay where they are. The Pro-pipes should be housed under the Rocks.

my problem with the laser is the fact that vehicle should kill vehicle and vehicles kill infantry unless they had the rocket launcher in halo 2which if you were aiming it at a warthog or ghost took some skill to hit with the laser and its instant death ray you can take out every offensive vehicle on the opposing team without to much trouble cause there is almost no way to dodge.

also just to continue my rant about vehicles kill vehicles on hemorrhage i was pissed when they removed the scorpion and added the wraith my opinion they should looked back at halo 2 and see how it worked there the reason it worked there is cause there was also a banshee and Gauss hog rant end

I like the Spartan Laser. :stuck_out_tongue:

I actually like the Laser. It takes more skill than Rockets IMO. You have to charge, keep your aim, then hit your target pinpoint, which is more difficult the closer the target is. Rockets, well… point and shoot. Everything within the blast radius dies. I think you need to rethink which weapons you want to complain about. Also, you make it sound like EVERYBODY can use the Laser with deadly skill. I consider myself good with it, but if I see anybody else on my team pick it up I have to suffer through watching them waste every shot. It’s not as easy as other power weapons in the game.

i disagree. the spartan laser is a fantastically balanced weapon. its virtually useless against non-vehicular opponents at anything but long range (when they dont see you). sure it kills vehicles, but thats the ENTIRE POINT of the power weapon.

killing vehicles is its niche.

and honestly, you talk about skill but… how much skill does it take to drive a tank / warthog / wraith around and get a lot of kills? not much at all.

1.The laser has 4 shots.
2.It’s never picked up because the DMR/Sniper are so effective.
3.The laser has LESS power than Halo 3’s.
4.No.

If anything the laser is underpowered. It should have 4 shots though but do the damage that it did in Halo 3. Bungie nerfed it a little to much. Like the Magnum in every Halo game after CE until Reach.

I think we should just go back to the way Halo 3’s laser played, but that matched the game. The Halo 4 Spartan Laser should match the way Halo 4 plays, and I’m sure 343 has found a way to make it fair.

By the way, we don’t even know if it’s going to be in Halo 4.

Aww, but the Laser is so much fun.

Anyways, we have no idea if its in Halo 4 or not. If Master Chief was smart, he would have made sure that there was a nice stash of them on board the FUD before going into cryo :stuck_out_tongue:

I disagree, OP.

This is like saying the rocket launcher, sniper, or gravity hammer, focus rifle, yadda yadda need to go.

Lets remove all guns coz they can hurt ppl.

> Personally, the Spartan Laser is anti-vehicle and not anti-personal. It shouldn’t be on the map unless vehicles are part of the mix or the game-type is intended to be a bit unorthodox or the Sniper is removed in place of it (like Stand-Off).
> So, in other words, it should stay.
>
> And by vehicles, I mean stuff more powerful than the scout-classes.
>
>
> I also think that in the spirit of design, Highlands shouldn’t have the Plasma Launcher opposing the Laser.
> That is too asymmetrical in weapon placement in general. And with Highlands’ pretty symmetrical setup, it creates an unnecessary lopsidedness from the start that can continue throughout the match.
> The Laser on the island with 2 PLs on either side of the kill box would be better IMO. But honestly, I’d prefer Rocks where the Laser and PL are with PLs being back in the base instead of the Rocks being there. Snipers can stay where they are. The Pro-pipes should be housed under the Rocks.

This, as in his explanation is cannocal, but most people don’t realize that Halo multiplayer is not cannon.