Being a big Bioware fan I can’t get away from “oh right its femshep” and “hi Satile”. So I am always stunned by the amount of venom there is. This definitely isn’t the writing BTW because many of the comments do focus on how the character sounds, how she speaks and her voice being “annoying”.
I think I must have seen dozens of comments in the announcer pack with people saying “Yes. I can shut up that woman now!”
They’ve basically just wheeled (Jen Hale?) in to voice act another badass TM character. I don’t see whats not to like or stands out versus say Vale or Bucke.
Her disrespect for teammates (More than usual banter or toughness) - Willingness to put her own personal goals first before a mission - Risking the lives of teammates unnecessarily - Her dislike for scientists - Bias towards Halsey as the only person responsible for SII - Bad dialoguePalmer is a good Spartan but she is not fit for a leadership position such as Spartan Commander on Infinity, Palmers own personals vendettas and failures are actually a cause for many unnecessary conflicts.
> 2533274904245048;6:
> I think for the most part it stems from
> - Her disrespect for teammates (More than usual banter or toughness) - Willingness to put her own personal goals first before a mission - Risking the lives of teammates unnecessarily - Her dislike for scientists - Bias towards Halsey as the only person responsible for SII - Bad dialoguePalmer is a good Spartan but she is not fit for a leadership position such as Spartan Commander on Infinity, Palmers own personals vendettas and failures are actually a cause for many unnecessary conflicts.
Yeah but wouldn’t she just be a Mary Sue if she had no flaws? I mean we were clearly meant to sympathize with Halsey and Thorne during Spartan Ops. Its not like we were meant to approve of her going out and trying to get Halsey. Even Laskey is like “you know, there must be another way”.
She doesn’t have team-mates, they’re subordinates and shes in charge; shes not going to take lip from them. Shes very respectful towards Laskey for comparison.
If this is Spartan Ops, Halsey did escape from jail to join a Covenant leader after she had been in contact with him. This is what it looks like and Laskey did approve that Op. Yes, it was in line with her hatred toward the character.
I ve only played the games. But in Halo 4 she, again, has no team mates and never does a mission with them. In the Op to kill Halsey she takes on all of the risk and goes it alone. As a Commander its her job to put your team in dangerous situations.
Only games. I don’t remember her hating any other scientist.
Yes that’s stupid, but that’s more of an issue with 343’s portrayal of the UNSC as the good guys. You’ll notice that Locke and Vale talk as if Halsey was a supervillain making the Spartans in her secret lab. Not an illegal government project where every decision she made was supported and funded at the highest level. So that has nothing to do with Palmer as a character.
She doesn’t really have that much dialogue TBH. Its no worse than any of Osiris or Blue Teams cheesy/cliché dialogue.
A huge problem is that she gets most of her character development in Spartan Ops where she isn’t our heroine but is essentially a foil for a more compassionate Thorne. She is meant to be his (expletive) of a commander and we see her mostly from Thorne’s perspective. So her portrayal is intentionally very negative because we’re meant to feel good when Thorne saves Halsey from her.
first of all, i havent seen topics about palmer or comments hating her for a while.
second, lets make a list shall we?
she seems to be sort of elitist. - she disrespects almost everyone and is a -Yoink- for them. - it feels like she is a blank character that is though, somewhat militaristic. - she basically puts lives at risk for little to no reason. - she is blaming halsey for everything even the SPARTAN-II project saved humanity. - she seems to be unfitting for leader position since instead of her trying to help complete the mission she mocks the ones doing the actual Job. Its not the training course it is supposed to be war. - whats up with hating scientist who try to help people survive or even win the war? That could be just mixing personal feelings to a Job where its not afforded.
to name a few.
> 2533274803587475;7:
> > 2533274904245048;6:
> > I think for the most part it stems from
> > - Her disrespect for teammates (More than usual banter or toughness) - Willingness to put her own personal goals first before a mission - Risking the lives of teammates unnecessarily - Her dislike for scientists - Bias towards Halsey as the only person responsible for SII - Bad dialoguePalmer is a good Spartan but she is not fit for a leadership position such as Spartan Commander on Infinity, Palmers own personals vendettas and failures are actually a cause for many unnecessary conflicts.
>
> Yeah but wouldn’t she just be a Mary Sue if she had no flaws? I mean we were clearly meant to sympathize with Halsey and Thorne during Spartan Ops. Its not like we were meant to approve of her going out and trying to get Halsey. Even Laskey is like “you know, there must be another way”.
>
> She doesn’t have team-mates, they’re subordinates and shes in charge; shes not going to take lip from them. Shes very respectful towards Laskey for comparison.
>
> If this is Spartan Ops, Halsey did escape from jail to join a Covenant leader after she had been in contact with him. This is what it looks like and Laskey did approve that Op. Yes, it was in line with her hatred toward the character.
>
> I ve only played the games. But in Halo 4 she, again, has no team mates and never does a mission with them. In the Op to kill Halsey she takes on all of the risk and goes it alone. As a Commander its her job to put your team in dangerous situations.
>
> Only games. I don’t remember her hating any other scientist.
>
> Yes that’s stupid, but that’s more of an issue with 343’s portrayal of the UNSC as the good guys. You’ll notice that Locke and Vale talk as if Halsey was a supervillain making the Spartans in her secret lab. Not an illegal government project where every decision she made was supported and funded at the highest level. So that has nothing to do with Palmer as a character.
>
> She doesn’t really have that much dialogue TBH. Its no worse than any of Osiris or Blue Teams cheesy/cliché dialogue.
>
> A huge problem is that she gets most of her character development in Spartan Ops where she isn’t our heroine but is essentially a foil for a more compassionate Thorne. She is meant to be his (expletive) of a commander and we see her mostly from Thorne’s perspective. So her portrayal is intentionally very negative because we’re meant to feel good when Thorne saves Halsey from her.
Every character needs to have flaws to help keep them interesting and believable but Palmer has flaws she shouldn’t have. Most of the complaints I have about Palmer come from the comics.
She learnt in Spartan training that the team comes first (Halo Initiation) yet she frequently showed no care for Thrones life on two separate occasions when Halsey was concerned. She literally drove him onto a Phantom that was destroyed by a Target locater seconds after they crashed off of it just because Halsey might have been on board (Halo Escalation) . - Decided not to take the Janus key and instead wait to go after Halsey who after being captured managed to out run Palmer, which led to Jul and Halsey finding the Absolute Record and loosing it for the UNSC (Halo Escalation) - She dislikes scientists as she believes they think are smarter than her, which to be honest they are in there field of expertise. (Halo Initiation) - Palmer constantly made a point of capturing / killing Halsey yet on all three occasions she missed her shots or failed to keep her in custody (Spartan Ops/ Halo Escalation)Palmer is like Chief as he was in Halo 5 in that he let his personal emotions cloud his judgement, however Palmer appears to do this on an almost daily basis whenever a personal matter comes up.
No one should be in a leadership position if they let there own personal goals come before the mission or there own teammates / subordinates. Palmer seemed to have improved in Halo 5 so her future is looking good now that she has put the whole Halsey thing behind her but if another personal matter comes up she could easily go off the rails again.
Palmer could have been given flaws that enhanced her character such as
Over pushing the SIVs so that they have a legacy comparable to the other Spartans - Difficulty getting along with her fellow Spartans because she doesn’t want to form attachments, the only real friends she has is Lasky and the recently deceased Spartan Davis, his death assuming they were close could be the cause of the flaw - Could have made small leadership mistakes that don’t cause galactic problems
> 2533274890014309;8:
> first of all, i havent seen topics about palmer or comments hating her for a while.
> second, lets make a list shall we?
> - she seems to be sort of elitist. - she disrespects almost everyone and is a -Yoink- for them. - it feels like she is a blank character that is though, somewhat militaristic. - she basically puts lives at risk for little to no reason. - she is blaming halsey for everything even the SPARTAN-II project saved humanity. - she seems to be unfitting for leader position since instead of her trying to help complete the mission she mocks the ones doing the actual Job. Its not the training course it is supposed to be war. - whats up with hating scientist who try to help people survive or even win the war? That could be just mixing personal feelings to a Job where its not afforded.to name a few.
I agree.
IMO, she occasionally acts very unprofessional.
She also seems to lose control of her emotions, particularly when she punched the “table” in a Spartan Ops episode.
> 2533274923562209;10:
> ii Most people are pretty much nit picky on the matter. For one of her flaws I could give an asset. She isn’t commander for no reason you know.
its a fictional character which means that she didnt need to actually rise in ranks and she seems to be very unprofessional, elitist, -Yoink- and she lets the personal feelings interfere with her Job and those traits seem to be in contradiction that she is at a rank of commander and it seems highly unlikely that Person like her could ever rise to that rank and its one of the little things that break the immersion of the game. Its pretty much on the same level as the blue team getting surprised by team osiris and then the blue team just stood there while the team osiris held them at gunpoint. That was just plain stupid for a veteran team that has survived countless battles to be acting like that. This seems to be problem with many characters in newer installments, the characters acting out of character.
I think there are a variety of issues that have caused it.
Lack of experience in dealing with those who’ve been in the military. - Poor writing - Some poor choices in terms - Some people take issues with strong women. - Some people don’t understand the concept of friendly banter - It has taken on meme like role within the community. It’s an easy, no effort joke to make and because of that people who would otherwise be indifferent have jumped on the bandwagon. - A few legitimate bad decisions on the character’s part, though some of these people defend Halsey who frankly is evil…so yeah.I’m kind of hoping the Palmer account shows up in this thread.
To me, it’s the fact that she’s forced down our throats even though she hasn’t really done anything to deserve the title they’re putting her in. There is nothing “badass” about her. She did nothing in Halo 4’s campaign and her role in Halo 5 was just as useless. She could’ve been replaced by a random marine and the story would’ve played out the same.
She may have done some cool stuff in the comics or some outside media, but not everyone reads those and as far as the games go, she’s just there.
> 2533274880633045;13:
> I think there are a variety of issues that have caused it.
>
>
> - Lack of experience in dealing with those who’ve been in the military. - Poor writing - Some poor choices in terms - Some people take issues with strong women. - Some people don’t understand the concept of friendly banter - It has taken on meme like role within the community. It’s an easy, no effort joke to make and because of that people who would otherwise be indifferent have jumped on the bandwagon. - A few legitimate bad decisions on the character’s part, though some of these people defend Halsey who frankly is evil…so yeah.I’m kind of hoping the Palmer account shows up in this thread.
Its a science fiction game. If you have watched aliens or starship troopers you should understand Halo.
Meh
Of?
But as I said, shes not portrayed as our heroine in Spartan Ops. The character is playing the role of an unreasonable character to make Thorne look good. I got the impression that they were pushing her as being a foil to Thorne. Its not as if they were making her as this ultimate badass that we were all supposed to root for. I mean, usually, complete generalization here, if you want to make a strong female character sympathetic to a male audience you make her have some flaw or feature that makes her sympathetic. So, I dunno, the Wonder Woman films its that shes clearly a naïve person with a good heart who wants to set the world to rights; butter wouldn’t melt. That sort of stuff. You don’t have them go out of their way to oppose the player character and portray them that negatively.
My point is you aren’t supposed to like Palmer in Spartan Ops.
You’re right there. I mean people seem to not get that Cortana talking sass to Osiris in Halo 5 is meant to be a light hearted tongue in cheek moment; not this sinister mind games thing.
I know she did torture a load of child soldiers. The Greater Good only goes so far…
> 2533274814289862;14:
> To me, it’s the fact that she’s forced down our throats even though she hasn’t really done anything to deserve the title they’re putting her in. There is nothing “badass” about her. She did nothing in Halo 4’s campaign and her role in Halo 5 was just as useless. She could’ve been replaced by a random marine and the story would’ve played out the same.
>
> She may have done some cool stuff in the comics or some outside media, but not everyone reads those and as far as the games go, she’s just there.
She doesn’t do much because they aren’t pushing the character…
She wasn’t the main POV in Spartan Ops and she didn’t play any significant role in H4 or H5. If they were pushing her I’d have thought she’d be much more of a presence and maybe even been a player character instead of Locke.
> 2533274890014309;12:
> > 2533274923562209;10:
> > ii Most people are pretty much nit picky on the matter. For one of her flaws I could give an asset. She isn’t commander for no reason you know.
>
> its a fictional character which means that she didnt need to actually rise in ranks and she seems to be very unprofessional, elitist, -Yoink- and she lets the personal feelings interfere with her Job and those traits seem to be in contradiction that she is at a rank of commander and it seems highly unlikely that Person like her could ever rise to that rank and its one of the little things that break the immersion of the game. Its pretty much on the same level as the blue team getting surprised by team osiris and then the blue team just stood there while the team osiris held them at gunpoint. That was just plain stupid for a veteran team that has survived countless battles to be acting like that. This seems to be problem with many characters in newer installments, the characters acting out of character.
Aren’t All characters fictional? Don’t see the point here. You also have an issue with her being unprofessional? I could name many characters throughout halo that have been unprofessional Spartan, marine, odst, even just normal cities. What’s so unprofessional about her? I mean Chief disobeyed a superior in h4 when it came to handing Cortana over due to her rampancy. Should I even go on about how Chief contradicts himself throughout the series? His feelings for Cortana being one of his biggest flaws, and you don’t think that breaks “immersion”?(I only quote it cuz immersion is an awful arguement cuz my immersion will be different than yours, you can’t really judge immersion.
I still stand by my statement that people are nit picking what is right/wrong with h4-5, I could do the same to 1-Reach, especially Reach. The only thing I will agre on is h5 kills many reasons to like it. Chief and locked fight was awful, Locke then makes nice out of no where later on and they act like nothing happens, the Janus key isn’t mentioned, Halsey and Palmers fued ends for whatever reason and there’s no mention as to why. Halo has always been a big contradiction to itself.
For me it was her presence in Spartan Ops. She was always really mean and douchey. The way she called scientists “eggheads” sounded intentionally hurtful, not just gruff banter. Beyond that, she has the wrong personality for her job – she’s supposed to command the entire Spartan branch, but she has trouble resisting the urge to go rogue to fulfill her personal vendettas. She doesn’t really have positive traits to balance out her negatives, so I’m left thinking "why is this the Spartan Commander? Why didn’t they promote Buck or Thorne or Ray?
She’s generally a -Yoink- to everyone, especially to the Chief. He’s THE Spartan and after seeing him in person for the first time, she disrespected him by saying:
> I thought you’d be taller.
She gives the trainees a sense of false hope during War Games Simulations (Poor Dialogue / Mode Design)
> We can still destroy the enemy core.
(When the match is completely one-sided in the enemy’s favor.)
A complete disregard for Halsey’s life, and even denying a direct order to stand down just to guarantee her assassination. - Often strays from the task at hand to ensure her personal gain, even though her job as the Senior Officer of the SPARTAN-IV Program requires her to be a role model for other Spartans and doing so could get her discharged.
> 2533274803587475;15:
> > 2533274880633045;13:
> > I think there are a variety of issues that have caused it.
> >
> >
> > - Lack of experience in dealing with those who’ve been in the military. - Poor writing - Some poor choices in terms - Some people take issues with strong women. - Some people don’t understand the concept of friendly banter - It has taken on meme like role within the community. It’s an easy, no effort joke to make and because of that people who would otherwise be indifferent have jumped on the bandwagon. - A few legitimate bad decisions on the character’s part, though some of these people defend Halsey who frankly is evil…so yeah.I’m kind of hoping the Palmer account shows up in this thread.
>
> * Its a science fiction game. If you have watched aliens or starship troopers you should understand Halo.
> * Meh
> * Of?
> * But as I said, shes not portrayed as our heroine in Spartan Ops. The character is playing the role of an unreasonable character to make Thorne look good. I got the impression that they were pushing her as being a foil to Thorne. Its not as if they were making her as this ultimate badass that we were all supposed to root for. I mean, usually, complete generalization here, if you want to make a strong female character sympathetic to a male audience you make her have some flaw or feature that makes her sympathetic. So, I dunno, the Wonder Woman films its that shes clearly a naïve person with a good heart who wants to set the world to rights; butter wouldn’t melt. That sort of stuff. You don’t have them go out of their way to oppose the player character and portray them that negatively.
> My point is you aren’t supposed to like Palmer in Spartan Ops.
> * You’re right there. I mean people seem to not get that Cortana talking sass to Osiris in Halo 5 is meant to be a light hearted tongue in cheek moment; not this sinister mind games thing.
> *
> * I know she did torture a load of child soldiers. The Greater Good only goes so far…
She tends to act in accordance with several military veterans I know IRL. She’s actually pretty on the mark in my opinion in that regard; strong willed, focused, used to having to overcome people doubting her because of her gender, etc. - You may say ‘meh’, but it is one of the problems with Halo 5 in general and while Halo 4 and Spartan ops were superior in some aspects there were still some poorly defined characters. - Mostly referring to some of the wz dialogue. It was poorly thought out and can seem mocking when you are extremely far behind. I don’t believe that was the intention or even that they foresaw how lopsided some wz matches could be. - Actually, I was pretty neutral with Palmer in Spartan ops. She was on mission, if a bit short sighted. There haven’t been any wonder woman films (unless you consider the abomination that was Batman vs Superman and she didn’t really have characterization in that. There was an animated movie that was a bit better, but she wasn’t portrayed as you described her. Even then not every female character has to be wonder woman. A character can also be strong and respected without you having to root for them. It isn’t required for them to be a protagonist for a character to be strong and a lot of people either will react negatively to stronger female characters. This may or may not be something they are aware of, but it’s there. In my opinion it is part of the reason the ‘I thought you’d be taller’ line received so much hate on this site. To me it seems like a combination of flirting and possibly a reference to roadhouse. - Kind of disagree with you on that element, but we’ll agree that it can happen. I was mostly referring to this line I mentioned above. - Going to skip this one, since you didn’t offer anything of value in response. - Yeah, I can actually agree that in some case the ends justify the means, but I honestly can’t understand why anyone would ever defend Halsey. Kidnapping children and putting them through horrendous experiments and training that borders on torture with the goal of crushing an insurrection is just too far out imo.
