The MMR system will intentionally match good players in Warzone with bad players on their team but give the enemy team nothing but sweaties. That makes things hilariously unbalanced. No matter how good you and your 5 other friends are, you can’t carry 6 braindead randoms who go 2 and 30. If Warzone still allowed full 12 man teams, we wouldn’t have this problem. It’d be far more manageable. Making Warzone 6 man just made things far more complicated than they should and has made the game worse.
343 you should really just scrap the MMR system for Warzone if you’re never gonna make it 12 man again cause with it, it just makes things very unbalanced and damn near unplayable. Here’s a video breaking down why the MMR System is nothing but a big joke.
Did some one just use the word balance in Warzone? Sorry but warzone’s balance is decided by players using reqs. So if they don’t use them or don’t use the right ones there won’t be much balance. It’s also a social mode so the window for match making is pretty wide open.
> 2533274816788253;2:
> Did some one just use the word balance in Warzone? Sorry but warzone’s balance is decided by players using reqs. So if they don’t use them or don’t use the right ones there won’t be much balance. It’s also a social mode so the window for match making is pretty wide open.
I mean balance as in teams. We all know Warzone is unbalanced. But it’s far more balanced when you have good teammates. If you get stupid randoms, you’ll get completely crapped on by the other team who will most likely have far better players.
So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
> 2533274962122285;5:
> So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
>
> Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
I’m not saying that. This is an issue that affects both teams and solo players. With this system, really good solo players could end up matching against a team. No matter what, both parties will suffer. At least with the MMR system being gone and full teams coming back, players like me and a bunch of others will no longer have to worry about carrying randoms who will go 0 and 40. Warzone is a game mode meant for teams anyway. It’s highly recommended that you play with a team in Warzone. You can play solo, but don’t cry when you get completely decimated by a stacked lobby.
This… flawed MMR system is the reason why I tend to avoid PvP Warzone for quite a while, being a solo queue type player 95% of the time.
I can accept losing a match as it will happen anytime, but losing way too consistently because I am constantly matched up against what it seems like coordinated teams that know what they are doing, puts me over the edge. It just forces me to quit a ton of matches in a quick succession more than I have to, due to the flawed & unfair system. This game overall, punishes players that solo queue (assuming they have played for a while), and its probably why most players stay playing in teams to improve their chances.
I am aware of the fireteam circumstances. Reducing the player cap from 12 to 6 will more less so encourage more farming than removing it, because with the 6 man loss, players will not be able to quick core as often as they could have.
The weapons & REQs are not the problem, since the better team will always win no matter what. It’s the players you are consistently matched against being in small fireteams of 2-4 or solo queue.
I had already watched that one Youtube video that explains the Unfair & Broken MMR… Twice!
If you’re basing this thread on the video you linked, then I’m happy to inform you that it’s completely on the wrong track when it comes to how the MMR works. The author pulls a really naive system out of nowhere, and then makes deductions based on that (which are consequently false). It doesn’t take a significant amount of research to find this GDC presentation from last year by Josh Menke (a.k.a. ZaedynFel), and his LinkedIn page, both of which suggest that his interests and expertise lie in Bayesian rating systems. Solely based on this fact, it’s highly likely that the Halo 5 MMR, too, is a Bayesian system. And that’s great, because there is plenty of information about Bayesian systems on the internet from the more approachable to the technical nitty gritty details of the mathematics.
When it comes to matching players, there is information about how that should be handled, too, on Microsoft’s TrueSkill page. The TL;DR of it is that the teams are arranged in a way that tries to maximize the likelihood of a draw. In other words, you are put in the team which gives the most even match. What kind of team you will get depends a lot on the specifics of how exactly you compare to the rest of the players in the match. However, the assessment that the system will “match good players . . . with bad players on their team but give the enemy team nothing but sweaties” is not true in general.
Ultimately, I would say that maximizing the likelihood of a draw is the best way balance teams, overall. This will sometimes punish parties because they can’t be broken up, but in the grand scheme of things, if you are given a set of players that need to be arranged into teams, it’s the best way to arrange the teams.
Matchmaking rank. It’s essentially the invisible rank the game gives you. Who you match with is decided by this invisible number. It’s essentially there to prevent highly skilled players from matching newer players.
> 2535421519140936;6:
> > 2533274962122285;5:
> > So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
> >
> > Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
>
> I’m not saying that. This is an issue that affects both teams and solo players. With this system, really good solo players could end up matching against a team. No matter what, both parties will suffer. At least with the MMR system being gone and full teams coming back, players like me and a bunch of others will no longer have to worry about carrying randoms who will go 0 and 40. Warzone is a game mode meant for teams anyway. It’s highly recommended that you play with a team in Warzone. You can play solo, but don’t cry when you get completely decimated by a stacked lobby.
I matched 12 man teams before when it was the old system back to back with varying teams I don’t see how what you are describing is any different.
Are they really bringing back 12 man teams because facing 6 man teams is bad enough?
> 2533274962122285;11:
> > 2535421519140936;6:
> > > 2533274962122285;5:
> > > So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
> > >
> > > Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
> >
> > I’m not saying that. This is an issue that affects both teams and solo players. With this system, really good solo players could end up matching against a team. No matter what, both parties will suffer. At least with the MMR system being gone and full teams coming back, players like me and a bunch of others will no longer have to worry about carrying randoms who will go 0 and 40. Warzone is a game mode meant for teams anyway. It’s highly recommended that you play with a team in Warzone. You can play solo, but don’t cry when you get completely decimated by a stacked lobby.
>
> I matched 12 man teams before when it was the old system back to back with varying teams I don’t see how what you are describing is any different.
>
> Are they really bringing back 12 man teams because facing 6 man teams is bad enough?
I wish they were bringing back 12 man Warzone. That would solve so many problems.
> 2535421519140936;12:
> > 2533274962122285;11:
> > > 2535421519140936;6:
> > > > 2533274962122285;5:
> > > > So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
> > > >
> > > > Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
> > >
> > > I’m not saying that. This is an issue that affects both teams and solo players. With this system, really good solo players could end up matching against a team. No matter what, both parties will suffer. At least with the MMR system being gone and full teams coming back, players like me and a bunch of others will no longer have to worry about carrying randoms who will go 0 and 40. Warzone is a game mode meant for teams anyway. It’s highly recommended that you play with a team in Warzone. You can play solo, but don’t cry when you get completely decimated by a stacked lobby.
> >
> > I matched 12 man teams before when it was the old system back to back with varying teams I don’t see how what you are describing is any different.
> >
> > Are they really bringing back 12 man teams because facing 6 man teams is bad enough?
>
> I wish they were bringing back 12 man Warzone. That would solve so many problems.
> 2533274962122285;13:
> > 2535421519140936;12:
> > > 2533274962122285;11:
> > > > 2535421519140936;6:
> > > > > 2533274962122285;5:
> > > > > So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
> > > > >
> > > > > Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
> > > >
> > > > I’m not saying that. This is an issue that affects both teams and solo players. With this system, really good solo players could end up matching against a team. No matter what, both parties will suffer. At least with the MMR system being gone and full teams coming back, players like me and a bunch of others will no longer have to worry about carrying randoms who will go 0 and 40. Warzone is a game mode meant for teams anyway. It’s highly recommended that you play with a team in Warzone. You can play solo, but don’t cry when you get completely decimated by a stacked lobby.
> > >
> > > I matched 12 man teams before when it was the old system back to back with varying teams I don’t see how what you are describing is any different.
> > >
> > > Are they really bringing back 12 man teams because facing 6 man teams is bad enough?
> >
> > I wish they were bringing back 12 man Warzone. That would solve so many problems.
>
> and cause more problems for everyone else.
It wouldn’t cause problems if they just played with a team and got better at the game.
> 2535421519140936;14:
> > 2533274962122285;13:
> > > 2535421519140936;12:
> > > > 2533274962122285;11:
> > > > > 2535421519140936;6:
> > > > > > 2533274962122285;5:
> > > > > > So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m not saying that. This is an issue that affects both teams and solo players. With this system, really good solo players could end up matching against a team. No matter what, both parties will suffer. At least with the MMR system being gone and full teams coming back, players like me and a bunch of others will no longer have to worry about carrying randoms who will go 0 and 40. Warzone is a game mode meant for teams anyway. It’s highly recommended that you play with a team in Warzone. You can play solo, but don’t cry when you get completely decimated by a stacked lobby.
> > > >
> > > > I matched 12 man teams before when it was the old system back to back with varying teams I don’t see how what you are describing is any different.
> > > >
> > > > Are they really bringing back 12 man teams because facing 6 man teams is bad enough?
> > >
> > > I wish they were bringing back 12 man Warzone. That would solve so many problems.
> >
> > and cause more problems for everyone else.
>
> It wouldn’t cause problems if they just played with a team and got better at the game.
It’s not so easy to find a team nevermind a reliable one. You can’t expect players to get good if they are out matched severely.
Good game design is based around the casual player that’s how you maintain a population. Having a game where the top percent have their way all the time is what would kill a game. Though it might explain why Halo 5 has never been up there in the numbers.
I know that we’re talking about Warzone here, but I would just like the 1-50 system in Halo 3 back. I’m sure that this can also be applied to Warzone as well.
> 2533274962122285;15:
> > 2535421519140936;14:
> > > 2533274962122285;13:
> > > > 2535421519140936;12:
> > > > > 2533274962122285;11:
> > > > > > 2535421519140936;6:
> > > > > > > 2533274962122285;5:
> > > > > > > So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’m not saying that. This is an issue that affects both teams and solo players. With this system, really good solo players could end up matching against a team. No matter what, both parties will suffer. At least with the MMR system being gone and full teams coming back, players like me and a bunch of others will no longer have to worry about carrying randoms who will go 0 and 40. Warzone is a game mode meant for teams anyway. It’s highly recommended that you play with a team in Warzone. You can play solo, but don’t cry when you get completely decimated by a stacked lobby.
> > > > >
> > > > > I matched 12 man teams before when it was the old system back to back with varying teams I don’t see how what you are describing is any different.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are they really bringing back 12 man teams because facing 6 man teams is bad enough?
> > > >
> > > > I wish they were bringing back 12 man Warzone. That would solve so many problems.
> > >
> > > and cause more problems for everyone else.
> >
> > It wouldn’t cause problems if they just played with a team and got better at the game.
>
> It’s not so easy to find a team nevermind a reliable one. You can’t expect players to get good if they are out matched severely.
>
> Good game design is based around the casual player that’s how you maintain a population. Having a game where the top percent have their way all the time is what would kill a game. Though it might explain why Halo 5 has never been up there in the numbers.
It’s a lot easier than you think. All you really need is to practice via Custom Games with your friends. You can get a lot better that way. Even if you start playing Matchmaking and you lose against a stacked team, that helps you get better. I met a bunch of people who are now good friends of mine and our BTB team is the best of the best. We’ve beaten big name Spartan Companies like ExO Delta Gaming, 99, Adamant, PartyUpGaming, and a lot more. Practice makes perfect and communication is key.
Well given how Halo 5 was based around the Competitive Community, that would poke multiple holes in your argument. Another thing, Halo 5 was never up there in numbers because it launched with very little content, not because the super sweats kicked out all the casual gamers.
> 2533274825830455;8:
> If you’re basing this thread on the video you linked, then I’m happy to inform you that it’s completely on the wrong track when it comes to how the MMR works. The author pulls a really naive system out of nowhere, and then makes deductions based on that (which are consequently false). It doesn’t take a significant amount of research to find this GDC presentation from last year by Josh Menke (a.k.a. ZaedynFel), and his LinkedIn page, both of which suggest that his interests and expertise lie in Bayesian rating systems. Solely based on this fact, it’s highly likely that the Halo 5 MMR, too, is a Bayesian system. And that’s great, because there is plenty of information about Bayesian systems on the internet from the more approachable to the technical nitty gritty details of the mathematics.
>
> When it comes to matching players, there is information about how that should be handled, too, on Microsoft’s TrueSkill page. The TL;DR of it is that the teams are arranged in a way that tries to maximize the likelihood of a draw. In other words, you are put in the team which gives the most even match. What kind of team you will get depends a lot on the specifics of how exactly you compare to the rest of the players in the match. However, the assessment that the system will “match good players . . . with bad players on their team but give the enemy team nothing but sweaties” is not true in general.
>
> Ultimately, I would say that maximizing the likelihood of a draw is the best way balance teams, overall. This will sometimes punish parties because they can’t be broken up, but in the grand scheme of things, if you are given a set of players that need to be arranged into teams, it’s the best way to arrange the teams.
Not to sound egotistical, but I’ve actually nailed it. I’m now at 11,388 Warzone games played, and have had a couple more games where 3 teams of 6 matched, and I’m always on the other end. It’s the same for solo searching players. Look up JAJAJAJAJAJAHA’s or emti’s game history and you can’t tell me that it doesn’t screw over solo searching players with high MMR’s too. They will never ever be on my team.
I’ve read everything about what Menke has said about the MMR system (A lot of that was on my first MMR breakdown video) and everything about the Trueskill system. They aren’t telling us everything or there’s something they don’t even know about, but that’s highly unlikely. Either way, I’ve given the most accurate view on how the MMR system actually works and I’m living proof. Just stop by one of my streams in the future. I’m seriously about to upload a 5-6 hour video of a previous stream just so everyone can literally see how it affects the top players. Hell, even check out my game history. The numbers and games don’t lie.
At the end of the day, this wouldn’t be an issue if it was 12 players. Then by all means give us a really strict MMR system! Then I don’t have to worry about 4 players splattering me on my team while the other team has 12 top 100 Warzone players. It’s just so unfair how I can’t have any fun due to my insanely high individual MMR. I understand how to “balance” out the matches, it needs to critically handicap my team and strengthen the other team drastically, but that ruins the whole point of it being a social playlist. Social is meant to be more randomized and less calculating.
> 2535421519140936;17:
> > 2533274962122285;15:
> > > 2535421519140936;14:
> > > > 2533274962122285;13:
> > > > > 2535421519140936;12:
> > > > > > 2533274962122285;11:
> > > > > > > 2535421519140936;6:
> > > > > > > > 2533274962122285;5:
> > > > > > > > So your saying it would be fair for a really good 12 man team to go against a bunch of randoms.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Honestly I’m starting to see warzone for the unbalance piece of crap it is. Teams aren’t balanced (though the teams are the least problematic), req leveling isn’t balance, reqs aren’t balanced.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m not saying that. This is an issue that affects both teams and solo players. With this system, really good solo players could end up matching against a team. No matter what, both parties will suffer. At least with the MMR system being gone and full teams coming back, players like me and a bunch of others will no longer have to worry about carrying randoms who will go 0 and 40. Warzone is a game mode meant for teams anyway. It’s highly recommended that you play with a team in Warzone. You can play solo, but don’t cry when you get completely decimated by a stacked lobby.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I matched 12 man teams before when it was the old system back to back with varying teams I don’t see how what you are describing is any different.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are they really bringing back 12 man teams because facing 6 man teams is bad enough?
> > > > >
> > > > > I wish they were bringing back 12 man Warzone. That would solve so many problems.
> > > >
> > > > and cause more problems for everyone else.
> > >
> > > It wouldn’t cause problems if they just played with a team and got better at the game.
> >
> > It’s not so easy to find a team nevermind a reliable one. You can’t expect players to get good if they are out matched severely.
> >
> > Good game design is based around the casual player that’s how you maintain a population. Having a game where the top percent have their way all the time is what would kill a game. Though it might explain why Halo 5 has never been up there in the numbers.
>
> It’s a lot easier than you think. All you really need is to practice via Custom Games with your friends. You can get a lot better that way. Even if you start playing Matchmaking and you lose against a stacked team, that helps you get better. I met a bunch of people who are now good friends of mine and our BTB team is the best of the best. We’ve beaten big name Spartan Companies like ExO Delta Gaming, 99, Adamant, PartyUpGaming, and a lot more. Practice makes perfect and communication is key.
>
> Well given how Halo 5 was based around the Competitive Community, that would poke multiple holes in your argument. Another thing, Halo 5 was never up there in numbers because it launched with very little content, not because the super sweats kicked out all the casual gamers.
Thing is I don’t think any body is really interested in being friends because I don’t play at their level in the game modes I want to play. Any body that is interested in playing with me tends to often not want to play any thing I want and it ends up feeling like I’m talking to a brick wall. Also to be honest because of anxiety I find it difficult to keep up the friendships. Typically after playing with some one for a while I get too anxious and I go into hiding till they forget about me.
I was more poking holes in halo 5’s bad game design and I was talking about game design in general. The core bulk of a player base is casuals.
Warzone will never be balanced. It never was. The beginning is the only gray area but as soon as someone spawns in a powerful req after the first minute or two it’s over. (I say powerful but I don’t mean super op ones yet) then it’s just a momentum that people rarely get out of
