Why the Banshee is a microcosm of Halo 4.....

343I was tasked with making a Halo game so they tried as best they could but I can’t help feel it was like Kia trying to copy a Porsche…

Now for the Banshee analogy, they looked at previous titles and said ,“hey, there is this Banshee vehicle so we need to make it in the game.” And it’s in the game, it’s purple, it flies and shoots. But does it feel like the Banshee in prior games? Uh no.

This is extremely evident in the maneuverability. In previous titles there was a purpose to do the loop-dee-loop to try and get in a 2nd shot on someone/some ground vehicle. With the new Kia Banshee it takes about 5 seconds to pull off. It waits, dips? and then does a loop. “The Banshee does loops in previous versions so we gotta make it do loops.” Try the barrell roll. It also takes about 3 seconds to react which doesn’t help as much when trying to dodge enemy fire…

I feel like the whole game is somewhat this way. “The car turns left and right, it’s a Porsche…” Nope, it’s a Kia unfortunately. Maybe a Kia is harsh, it’s a Chevy. I am trying to enjoy the game as much as possible and it is somewhat fun when there actually is no lag, it is just no where near as fun as previous Halo’s made by Bungie…

I agree.

It isn’t ALL bad, I still quite like flying the banshee. The Reach Banshee was slightly TOO overpowered in my opinion.

The thing I really hate about the Halo 4 one, is the dip before a loop. So many times I’ve just crashed into the ground and destroyed my banshee (while taking the shot would have caused less damage).

That’s basically my only gripe with it; the vehicles tendency to crash into the ground, a wall, a wraith, a scorpion… when you attempt to pull of the slightest trick.

Just my 2 cents.

The best we can hope for is when they stop crying( I would people are harsh) they look at everything and go “Ok, this is what not to do.”

Halo is in their hands now I trust they wont make the same mistakes twice.

On that note I am enjoying halo 4 more than my usual addiction to COD

I actually rather like the banshee this time around — it reminds me of the Halo 2 banshee :slight_smile:

I like the Kia Banshee analogy, since kia also = Killed In Action.

They made these changes to balance out the Banshee. I would sometimes see players doing the loop-de-loop and then firing the fuel rod for a whole match without dying as the tricks made it hard to shoot. It was horrible whenever there was a banshee it Reach.

> They made these changes to balance out the Banshee. I would sometimes see players doing the loop-de-loop and then firing the fuel rod for a whole match without dying as the tricks made it hard to shoot. It was horrible whenever there was a banshee it Reach.

Plausible explanation. Sort of wonder why have the loop-de-loop or roll at all but I suppose they still might be useful, just not as much as in Reach. Still I can’t help feel a little cheated on Exile when I go to fly underneath the rock arch and it feels like I shouldn’t have made it under but, magically, I appear on the other side unscathed…

I miss the Reach banhsee aka god mode, but the one in halo 4 is rather weak, maybe something in the middle

The banshee is still the same death machine it was in Reach, except it is much harder to use now. You can basically still instant-kill everything you see (except most vehicles), except this time around you can’t kill a player every three seconds the way you could in Reach. It is now also vulnerable to power weapons like any other vehicle, as it should be, instead of simply avoiding death with a button.

The banshee is balanced again.

Think of it more as an airplane now (like in Halo CE) and less like Reach’s infinite ‘bomb - flip - repeat’. Best would be to just swoop over your enemies and pass over again some other time.

> The banshee is still the same death machine it was in Reach, except it is much harder to use now. You can basically still instant-kill everything you see (except most vehicles), except this time around you can’t kill a player every three seconds the way you could in Reach. It is now also vulnerable to power weapons like any other vehicle, as it should be, instead of simply avoiding death with a button.
>
> The banshee is balanced again.
>
> Think of it more as an airplane now (like in Halo CE) and less like Reach’s infinite ‘bomb - flip - repeat’. Best would be to just swoop over your enemies and pass over again some other time.

Again, I think this is a plausible explanation and I hope it is in fact the reasion. But the other parts of the games that feel off make me wonder. For instance, how a sticky grenade no longer kills a ghost when stuck. I think if you are skillful enough to throw/tack a sticky onto a charging ghost (especially given no armor lock anymore), you should be rewarded will a kill and exploding Ghost. Yesterday I had a ghost that was already half beat down and someone stuck me, yet it didn’t really even do anything so I laughed and then splattered them. Didn’t feel quite right.

So again I hope there is a conscious reason for this but I still feel like they said, “well there is this ghost thing and these sticky grenades, so if a sticky hits a ghost it needs to stick I guess” and just stopped trying or simply couldn’t execute in the programming. If I was the KIA maker explaining why my car didn’t turn like a Porsche, I’d probably say “oh well you know not everyone can handle a Porsche so we made it steer like a milk truck. you know safer for everyone to drive.”

It just seems a lot the things are in the game but, just not quite like it used to be or perhaps even intended to be.

I still do Bomb- Flip-Repeat. Actually I just do Bomb- Thrust-Bomb.

I often get 15-20 kills before I explode. I don’t think its some KIA version. It’s fine.

Now the roll can be a little ridiculous but there isn’t a map that is big enough to support this.

I like to think of myself as a veteran Banshee pilot. (Over 10,000 kills across all the Halo multiplayers YAY!!!)

I tend to view the Halo 2 Banshee as the “perfect” Banshee in multiplayer. Though that’s most likely because I’m nostalgic about it. It was fast and maneuverable, capable of dodging the rockets with the right timing, and no Fuel Rod Cannon. I remember being complimented at least a dozen times in my use of the Banshee.

In Halo 3, they added the Fuel Rod into multiplayer. And removed the ability to look straight down. It somewhat hampered it’s maneuverability but overall it was a pretty balanced vehicle. Most people didn’t see it that way because they found it difficult to take down. People expected to pick up the power weapons and get an instant kill. If that failed, they would resort to using their BRs on the Banshee. I could dodge the Rocket Pod with ease, and 90% of the time I could dodge most of the laser and escape with only my shields down. Quite often I would have perfection runs with the Banshee and get hate mail because of it. However most people didn’t know how to take down the Banshee, so I made it my mission to teach them down to do so. Don’t fire every single rocket at the Banshee, take your time with it, keep a lock on the Banshee and fire 1 or 2 at a time. Instead of using the BR, I would tell them to make use of the AR. A few ARs could tear the pilot up in a matter of seconds. With a little coordinated effort with the ARs and the Power Drain, and you got yourself a dead Banshee fairly quickly.

In Reach, most people would just Fuel Rod and flip. Rinse and repeat. It got to the point where I was so ashamed of people using the Banshee like that, I stopped using the Fuel Rod on infantry and relied on the plasma cannons instead. Combine that with how easily it is to destroy vehicles in Reach, it made things quite a challenge, which is something I enjoyed. =)

In Halo 4, I tend not to do flips anymore. They just do more harm than good in most situations. People still use the Fuel Rod very often, but not as much as I’ve seen in Reach. From what I’ve seen, a lot of people don’t like the amount of power weapons with the ordinance drops now. I’m somewhat split on this issue. I can understand people not wanting to get slaughtered by the vehicles, but coming into a combat situation with the chance of being fired on by Rockets, Incineration cannons, snipers, binary rifles, etc, can make vehicles rather frustrating at times.

My advice to fellow Banshee pilots, and vehicle users in general, is to get the Operator Mod ASAP. Cuts the EMP effect down to about a second. The Operator mod says it increases the vehicles long term durability. Some people don’t understand that, so I’ll try to explain what I’ve found. The vehicles in Halo 4 seem to work on a health tier system, similar to Mass Effect 3’s health. Here’s a picture for those who are not familiar with the game.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7394/masseffect3hud.jpg

In the bottom middle of the screen is the health bar, colored by red. There are 5 bars and if an entire bar gets depleted, that bar will no longer regenerate. As I said before, the vehicles in Halo 4 work off a similar system. Think of a brand new Banshee as have those 5 health bars. If you start taking damage, the Banshee will eventually show the damage. As soon as it shows the damage, you’ve gone through a health tier. With each progressing visible damage to the Banshee you can see, you’ve gone through another health tier. There is also a “Point of no Return” as I’ve taken to calling it. For the Banshee, if your wings get blown off, the regeneration properties of the Operator Mod will no longer have any effect. My advice is never let your shields go below half in a Banshee. As soon as you get to half shields, it is very easy for the Banshee to go through the damage tiers very quickly.

You’ll also wanna avoid flips in general. Don’t try to go for a splatter unless you’re sure you’ll get it. Example would be if a Spartan has their back to you. But I would suggest not splattering at all since the amount of Plasma Pistols, Plasma Grenades, and the odd laggy skyjacking. I would also recommend not going out into the open without some coordinated effort from your other team mates. Going into a battle on your own with the Banshee is a straight ticket to death now. The DMRs will tear you up. I also suggest you limit your attacks to hit and run only. If you do get to the “Point of no Return” you’re not gonna last much longer, so suicide runs are effective.

The Banshee is fine. Very balanced and fair in my opinion. Would like to see a UNSC aircraft in the future (off subject)

previous banshees were so over powered, 343 made sure they would not make a game where the team with a banshee automatically won.

> I actually rather like the banshee this time around — it reminds me of the Halo 2 banshee :slight_smile:

It is nothing like the Halo 2 banshee, that vehicle was actually responsive and felt right when you manuvered it.

Issues with the Banshee:

-lacks maneuverability. Frequently crashes into objects, often the ceiling is set low which hinders it, back flip is wonky (if you move the right stick left or right, you’ll automatically turn in the opposite direction) and useless
-lacks versatility. Switching guns with Y means you have to temporarily take your finger off the right stick. Holding A doesn’t do -Yoink- (in Halo 3, you could descend on the spot)
-lacks safety. If you get skyjacked, you get thrown far out, which can spell your end if you were near the edge. If you exit it, you get thrown far out so you can’t back in it. Enemy Banshee AI easily outperform you on any difficulty

It’s better to get out then to pilot this screaming metal death trap. On the bright side, even the AI can’t handle it which is why situations where the pilot runs for a parked Banshee is nothing to worry about.

> I actually rather like the banshee this time around — it reminds me of the Halo 2 banshee :slight_smile:

The H2 Banshee was the most controllable of Banshees in newer Halo games, next to the ODST Banshee.

You didn’t have hover but you could lean left or right while holding back on the left stick and that gave you a temporary hover. If you were grounded, then you could hover.

I guess we have debated the Banshee fairly well enough but my bigger point/feeling was somewhat lost that, like the Banshee, everything in the game feels a little off. Halo things are all in the game for the most part but, just done differently/more poorly IMO (Kia vs Porsche). Not surprising when you switch developers and have different programmers.

No one will probably remember back in 94 on Sega Genesis when Madden 94 came out toughting a “new” look. In reality, they just meant the graphics and gameplay are not what you came accustomed to in Madden '93. In short, they now suck. That’s one example from the “Way Back Machine” but I am sure there are more. Sometimes it’s a good thing i.e. NBA Live95 vs Bulls Lakers garbage. In Halo the bar was set extremely high so it seems impossible to improve upon. I guess I just feel it fell a little further than I hoped.

The machine feels just like a copy and pasted version of the CEA banshee.