So… what’s the topic of discussion here? Because all the OP gives is his opinion stated as fact.
The AR is meant more for unshielded enemies, so it’s better to use a plasma weapon of some sort to first pop the shields, then switch to the AR to drain the health.
So the AR never really sucks, just people never know how to implement it correctly. Also, people just mash the trigger down as hard as possible and never use short, controlled bursts, which does make a difference.
> > > > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> > > >
> > > > What?
> > > >
> > > > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
> > >
> > > He’s not talking button combos, he’s talking aim-assists
> >
> > Speaking of noobified
>
> Query, if the AR fullautos at medium-short and doesn’t kill but if bursted at that same range it does kill in nearly exactly the required bullets, what do we have?
The same slow killtime that makes it useless at medium range. Burst firing is useless at close range. And close range is the niche range of the AR, where spraying reigns supreme. Burst firing does nothing beneficial for the AR(effectively speaking). Nor do I consider cadence a worthy enough skill to justify a buff to the AR. You have to fix that bullet magnetism and autoaim first.
> The AR and storm rifle will not be nearly as effective as BR/DMR/Carbine in almost all situations, for the same reason they sucked in every Halo to date:
>
> Automatics exist (in Halo) as a go-to weapon for casuals who have limited skill in tracking a target. While the AR is a relatively weak weapon, it’s aim-assist and bullet magnetism levels are high enough to make it the more lethal choice for an unskilled player.
>
> As much as a lot of people would like it to be as effective as the precision weapons, making it a worthy alternative to the BR/DMR/Carbine, it is needed to fill the role of a beginners choice weapon.
In actuality, the weapons are designed more to play out a complex game of rock-paper-scissors as each one will dominate at it’s intended range but not necessarily at any other range. Let me elaborate:
Very Close Range - Shotgun
Close Range - Assault Rifle
Medium Range - Battle Rifle
Long Range - Designated Marksman Rifle
Very Long Range - Sniper Rifle
Simply put, at each weapon’s intended range it will dominate pretty much any weapon outside of that range, (assuming both players are of an equal skill level and putting aside all other factors) but when used outside of it’s intended range it’s like being out of your comfort zone and if you want the kill you’ll have to do a little more than just pull the trigger and aim.
Of course I’m aware of weapons other than these but this is just to give a rough breakdown of the idea. In practice the rock-paper-scissors becomes more complex with the inclusion of grenades, map precision, armour abilities, vehicles, other weapons and other players. But still it remains the same, in a Close Range engagement you should really switch to an Assault Rifle for maximum effectiveness.
> > > The AR sucks, bottom line.
> >
> > It kills people in a heartbeat so it clearly doesn’t lol…
> >
> > [4’s AR]
>
> In CE and CEA. It was better. Im not getting crap out of it in Reach. By the only automatice weapon i like is the Needler, and Spiker.
Plasma repeater was good for full auto but couldn’t actually kill : (
> > > > > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> > > > >
> > > > > What?
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
> > > >
> > > > He’s not talking button combos, he’s talking aim-assists
> > >
> > > Speaking of noobified
> >
> > Query, if the AR fullautos at medium-short and doesn’t kill but if bursted at that same range it does kill in nearly exactly the required bullets, what do we have?
>
> The same slow killtime that makes it useless at medium range. Burst firing is useless at close range. And close range is the niche range of the AR, where spraying reigns supreme. Burst firing does nothing beneficial for the AR(effectively speaking). Nor do I consider cadence a worthy enough skill to justify a buff to the AR. You have to fix that bullet magnetism and autoaim first.
That doesn’t make sense, as the video shows, the burst fire kills, the fullauto doesn’t.
The answer is, where the HRAR’s niche range is very short range on fullauto, if burst fired, the HRAR can kill targets reliably although not quickly at medium-short range.
Your opinion is besides the facts.
The facts are that spraying and praying only works at ranges where you’re not praying because you’re so close, the spread barely misses if it does and if you missed, it’s because of your aim. Pulsing the HRAR will result in reliable but slower kills are medium-short range… Ranges where the HRM6 would be a better candidate to unload and than swap to the AR instead of reloading if a battle elongates longer than wanted, and before retrieving a better mid-range or heavyweapon off a spawn.
Now before you claim the DMR’s and NR’s are better to spawn with anyways, in H4, we have loadouts that let us choose the weapons we spawn with in specific gametypes, so it’s not really a transferable arguement to H4.
So far the AR has shown that regardless of how useful it is or isn’t at ranges where it isn’t suppose to be used, the AR is very effective in the range that the majority of players feel its niche range exists.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
WTF!! I know why the AR doesn’t work you don’t need to go on the Halo 4 forum and complain how the AR sucks and why it will never work. GO troll somewhere else.
> > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > >
> > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> >
> > What?
> >
> > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
>
> Well now we’re getting into Button Glitches. Those aren’t 4-shots, those are Single, 2, or 3 shots with combinations of autofires, quad, and double shots.
That’s cool. Outside BXR, I don’t think button glitches were allowed. And glitches or not, those combos greatly increased skill gap. One false move, and you lost. And just look at alllllll those button glitches going on. That Triple by TSquared totally wasn’t skill or anything.
> But reread what I said “Untrained Monkeys in can use precisions “more effectively than” Automatics in Halo Reach and 2”
Unlikely. Automatic weapons in those games were designed for the untrained monkeys in mind. Only an untrained monkey would use a weapon that inhibits their performance. Why choose a pillow over a rifle?
> Which is true. Give one unskilled player a DMR, the other an AR, the one with the DMR will win, why? Because despite being quote “more skill reliant”, the precision weapon simply overpowers the automatic into submission, the problem? Too much aim assist, and too much power. (Well, too little for the AR I’d rather say, weapons don’t need slower kill times than they have in Reach, they need MUCH faster).
The DMR beats the AR because it is a better weapon in any situation. When using such a weak weapon like the Assault Rifle, it is less about skill, and more about who holds the DMR. Have a 1v1 against a player, DMRs only. Now do it again with ARs. I guarantee that the score will be closer with the ARs. As for your aim assist comment: the Assault Rifle not only aims for you, but also has a reticle the size of a small planet, and drags your cursor to the enemy as you take damage. Trufax.
> Now, equip that DMR player with a Magnum, and he will get slaughtered every time by the AR player. This is because the Magnum has VERY little aim assist and a shallow clip that pinishes missing severely. However, give a skilled player a Magnum and another one an AR, and the Magnum will win every time because HE can actually use the magnum to the maximum potential actually required to win.
That’s not the Magnum having a greater skill gap, that is the Magnum having random spread, humungous bloom, a very shallow magazine, and takes a very long time for bloom to reset. In close quarters, the Magnum will still win, spamming or not.
> The DMR/H2 BR doesn’t require maximum potential to defeat Automatics, not even close. All it requires is pointing and shooting over and over until you get a few lucky hits in.
Just because you insist on using marshmallow cannons does not mean my rifle takes any less skill or intelligence.
> > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > >
> > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> >
> > What?
> >
> > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
>
> He’s not talking button combos, he’s talking aim-assists
How many of those targets were actively dodging shots? hmm…
> So… what’s the topic of discussion here? Because all the OP gives is his opinion stated as fact.
In the OP I calculated the following values:
0% opinion
100% fact.
> > The AR and storm rifle will not be nearly as effective as BR/DMR/Carbine in almost all situations, for the same reason they sucked in every Halo to date:
> >
> > Automatics exist (in Halo) as a go-to weapon for casuals who have limited skill in tracking a target. While the AR is a relatively weak weapon, it’s aim-assist and bullet magnetism levels are high enough to make it the more lethal choice for an unskilled player.
> >
> > As much as a lot of people would like it to be as effective as the precision weapons, making it a worthy alternative to the BR/DMR/Carbine, it is needed to fill the role of a beginners choice weapon.
>
> In actuality, the weapons are designed more to play out a complex game of rock-paper-scissors as each one will dominate at it’s intended range but not necessarily at any other range. Let me elaborate:
>
> Very Close Range - Shotgun
> Close Range - Assault Rifle
> Medium Range - Battle Rifle
> Long Range - Designated Marksman Rifle
> Very Long Range - Sniper Rifle
>
> Simply put, at each weapon’s intended range it will dominate pretty much any weapon outside of that range, (assuming both players are of an equal skill level and putting aside all other factors) but when used outside of it’s intended range it’s like being out of your comfort zone and if you want the kill you’ll have to do a little more than just pull the trigger and aim.
>
> Of course I’m aware of weapons other than these but this is just to give a rough breakdown of the idea. In practice the rock-paper-scissors becomes more complex with the inclusion of grenades, map precision, armour abilities, vehicles, other weapons and other players. But still it remains the same, in a Close Range engagement you should really switch to an Assault Rifle for maximum effectiveness.
And this is why we need to add in a fourth element, a bucket of water if you will; A tool to rust scissors, make paper soggy, and erode the rock. A jack of all trades is necessary in a game where you can only handle 2 weapons at a time. One weapon to fill in for the shortcomings of the other weapon you have on your back. This way encounters won’t come down to whoever has the best weapon at a given time, which just adds unneeded randomness.
Luckily, it seems 343 is approaching this in a way with the Light Rifle. While every other weapon is filling a specific niche.
> > > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > > >
> > > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> > >
> > > What?
> > >
> > > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
> >
> > He’s not talking button combos, he’s talking aim-assists
>
> How many of those targets were actively dodging shots? hmm…
Against hitscan, which the H2BR and the HRDMR are, there’s little relevance to the movement of the player and the placement of the reticle.
Your question really isn’t about weapon use but actual tracking skill. As far as skill goes on the weapons in talk, the H2BR and its use of button combos is what separates the “skilled” users of the actual weapon, not tracking ability. The skillgap of the H2BR alone is quite low without combos or other force multipliers.
The HRDMR, it is true the ZBDMR requires very good tracking skills to maintain consistent 5-shot kills because the aim-assist reticle is pretty small.
> > > > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> > > >
> > > > What?
> > > >
> > > > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
> > >
> > > He’s not talking button combos, he’s talking aim-assists
> >
> > How many of those targets were actively dodging shots? hmm…
>
> Against hitscan, which the H2BR and the HRDMR are, there’s little relevance to the movement of the player and the placement of the reticle.
Nonsense. Of course it does. Quake 3’s Railgun was hitscan, are you going to tell me that there was no relevance of movement in that game? Are you going to call Quake unskillful?
> Your question really isn’t about weapon use but actual tracking skill. As far as skill goes on the weapons in talk, the H2BR and its use of button combos is what separates the “skilled” users of the actual weapon, not tracking ability. The skillgap of the H2BR alone is quite low without combos or other force multipliers.
Alone, not really. While the weapon itself had high aim assist and magnetism, strafing, Ghandi hopping, crouching, etc. set players apart when button combos were not in play.
> > > > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> > > >
> > > > What?
> > > >
> > > > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
> > >
> > > He’s not talking button combos, he’s talking aim-assists
> >
> > Speaking of noobified
>
> Query, if the AR fullautos at medium-short and doesn’t kill but if bursted at that same range it does kill in nearly exactly the required bullets, what do we have?
A mechanic that takes game knowledge and some level of skill to master? A skill gap of sorts?
> > > > > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> > > > >
> > > > > What?
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
> > > >
> > > > He’s not talking button combos, he’s talking aim-assists
> > >
> > > How many of those targets were actively dodging shots? hmm…
> >
> > Against hitscan, which the H2BR and the HRDMR are, there’s little relevance to the movement of the player and the placement of the reticle.
>
> Nonsense. Of course it does. Quake 3’s Railgun was hitscan, are you going to tell me that there was no relevance of movement in that game? Are you going to call Quake unskillful?
Quake doesn’t have ANY Aim Assist. That’s an extremely huge difference. Quake has ZERO sticky Reticle, and ZERO bullet magnetism to carry you. Halo 2 and Reach do alot of the aiming for the player, removing most of the skill out of the equasion.
> > > The AR and storm rifle will not be nearly as effective as BR/DMR/Carbine in almost all situations, for the same reason they sucked in every Halo to date:
> > >
> > > Automatics exist (in Halo) as a go-to weapon for casuals who have limited skill in tracking a target. While the AR is a relatively weak weapon, it’s aim-assist and bullet magnetism levels are high enough to make it the more lethal choice for an unskilled player.
> > >
> > > As much as a lot of people would like it to be as effective as the precision weapons, making it a worthy alternative to the BR/DMR/Carbine, it is needed to fill the role of a beginners choice weapon.
> >
> > In actuality, the weapons are designed more to play out a complex game of rock-paper-scissors as each one will dominate at it’s intended range but not necessarily at any other range. Let me elaborate:
> >
> > Very Close Range - Shotgun
> > Close Range - Assault Rifle
> > Medium Range - Battle Rifle
> > Long Range - Designated Marksman Rifle
> > Very Long Range - Sniper Rifle
> >
> > Simply put, at each weapon’s intended range it will dominate pretty much any weapon outside of that range, (assuming both players are of an equal skill level and putting aside all other factors) but when used outside of it’s intended range it’s like being out of your comfort zone and if you want the kill you’ll have to do a little more than just pull the trigger and aim.
> >
> > Of course I’m aware of weapons other than these but this is just to give a rough breakdown of the idea. In practice the rock-paper-scissors becomes more complex with the inclusion of grenades, map precision, armour abilities, vehicles, other weapons and other players. But still it remains the same, in a Close Range engagement you should really switch to an Assault Rifle for maximum effectiveness.
>
> And this is why we need to add in a fourth element, a bucket of water if you will; A tool to rust scissors, make paper soggy, and erode the rock. A jack of all trades is necessary in a game where you can only handle 2 weapons at a time. One weapon to fill in for the shortcomings of the other weapon you have on your back. This way encounters won’t come down to whoever has the best weapon at a given time, which just adds unneeded randomness.
>
> Luckily, it seems 343 is approaching this in a way with the Light Rifle. While every other weapon is filling a specific niche.
The fact that you have 2 weapons is how you are supposed to cover your weakness. You shouldn’t win close range fights when you’re dumb enough to strut around with the Sniper and DMR. You win close range fights by strutting around with a Sniper and Magnum (Magnum for Close-mid range support obviously).
The idea of a utility weapon just makes the strategy of THINKING when you decide what guns to take with you away. Because you just drop the Niche weapon, and waltz around with your Utility and any Power weapon you want.
I disagree, OP.
In halo 3, it was indeed what you say. A lot of it was because the BR was overpowered in that it pushed the AR’s range where it is the most effective weapon into a super small range, only a few feet. The fact that bursting hardly helped it accuracy wise also meant that it had little potential for skilled use, beyond tactical thinking.
This changed in halo reach. The introduction of bloom for it and the DMR/NR made burst firing a HUGELY effective tactic, limited the DMR and NR’s effectiveness in it’s range, and the removal of the SMG opened up room for it.
In practice, this means at close range (NOT melee), it’s only competition is the plasma repeater; using this image as a guide to what I mean by “medium” and “close” and so on.
Bursting allows a skilled AR user to kill people at magnum and even NR range, even if the foe is using those weapons. It’s not easy, but I am able to do it often enough. The TU made this much, much harder, due to reduced bloom for the DMR, NR, and magnum, though.
All I ask is that halo 4 will have the AR act as least as good as the vanilla reach AR.
I thought the AR was pretty good in Halo 1.
> > > > > > I would call that true if it wasn’t for the fact that untrained monkeys can use DMRs in Reach and Halo 2 BRs more effectively than ARs, SMGs, PRs, and Repeaters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The fact is, Precision weapons need to be harder to use, and Automatics need a little more ground to stand on.
> > > > >
> > > > > What?
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m sure you out-BR TSquared and Ogre 2 every day in Halo 2.
> > > >
> > > > He’s not talking button combos, he’s talking aim-assists
> > >
> > > Speaking of noobified
> >
> > Query, if the AR fullautos at medium-short and doesn’t kill but if bursted at that same range it does kill in nearly exactly the required bullets, what do we have?
>
> A mechanic that takes game knowledge and some level of skill to master? A skill gap of sorts?
If you are in a situation where you have to use an Assault Rifle at range, you are getting into the wrong situations. It does not show skill that you defeated a player at range with an AR, it shows you faced a bad opponent.
An Uzi is not going to beat an M14 at 500 yards.
> Nonsense. Of course it does. Quake 3’s Railgun was hitscan, are you going to tell me that there was no relevance of movement in that game? Are you going to call Quake unskillful?
- That’s physical tracking ability, not weapon knowledge.
- That’s PC where the aim-assists are near 0 if not 0 where as I described the ZBDMR, very small reticles do matter with movement.
> Alone, not really. While the weapon itself had high aim assist and magnetism, strafing, Ghandi hopping, crouching, etc. set players apart when button combos were not in play.
That’s called game knowledge and it is a skill I greatly recognise, it isn’t however BR skill.