Ok, first off I am not bashing casual gamers in any way. I understand that for some people playing video games is not a frequent thing but a stress reliever to have fun in whatever way they see fit. But, the problem we are seeing in the FPS market and other Genre’s as well is competitve players or players who treat gaming like a hobby are being forced to lower their standards for sub-par competitve titles and in extreme cases go back to previously released games for the gaming experience they want. For instance, look at the Quake Live and CS:S communties they are still going pretty strong much to do with their love for those games, but also because the way in most FPS’s are being catered to casual gamers first and only in some cases, not the other way around which is what it used to be.
I come from a day and age where casual gaming was not really a frequented term. To be a gamer you had to be pretty dedicated to LAN or finish on hard modes and the games were made challenging and competitve on purpose as they should be. The games were made as challenging as possible to give as much room for improvement/difficulty as possible and being a gamer your challenge was to become good as possible at said game. The gaming community understood and accepted this, and it was the best way to do things in my opinion. That is what the oldschool gaming communties find fun besides the obvious fun of playing FPS’s, the challenge and growth as a player. This is obviously no longer a priority for developers but making the easiest games possible to appeal to the casual audience. This has left the oldschool generation of gamers very bitter, and our favorite hobby is now a shadow of what it once was. Some Quake players were literally unkillable with enough skill and dedication, now players get kills by calling in attack dogs or using cheap gimmicks that make games shallow and tailored only to one player. The true spirit of gaming(specifically FPS’s) has died in my opinion, gamers do not want challenges or have to grow as a player they want instant reward for doing nothing.
I guess what im asking is, how would making a game the most competitve/challenging it could be at least through player choice be a bad thing? Surely a newbie player does not expect to be on the level of a veteran player through little practice right? He can enjoy the game in his own way through the customization and assorted playlists of todays FPS’s while the game also allows for growth and challenging gameplay to a skilled player. if he plays only for fun surely he can have fun with any FPS as they are inherently fun games. He will get matched up with players of his skill level most of the time, and he will have to learn and compete if he wants to get better, the game being inherently catered to him gives him little room to improve.
You CAN have casual gamers enjoy a highly competititve FPS or challenging games, but competite FPS fans or veterans of the genre are hindered and forced to play a shallow game in a game catered to casuals which is not fair. Our gaming experiences are being ruined in favor of convenience for the casual fanbase.
I am not going to comment on my views of the Halo franchise in terms of being dumbed down, but we all know this has happened to a degree. I guess what im trying to say here is you can have a highly competitve FPS and also have casual gamers, but you cant really have it the other way around. Games should be made just as every other high-profile sport/game is made to allow for as much growth/challenge as possible to not alienate anyone and to keep the true gaming spirit alive. You dont have to cater to the majority, to make a game for everyone.
Thanks guys if you read this, I would like to hear your thoughts on why you agree or disagree!
I don’t exactly see how casual gamers are being catered to. If they make the game hardcore then casual gamers can learn to play like a hardcore, even though they don’t play as much. But there still needs to be gametypes that would be considered “casual” such as Action Sack, grifball, and a few others. Gaming is fun and its okay to be serious about it every now and then, but everyone needs to remember not to get carried away. I don’t really have anything against hardcores, in fact I’d say I’m somewhere in between casual and hardcore maybe a little closer to hardcore, but people just need to learn how to relax and have fun. People also need to remember that a video game is just that, a game.
I think thats why Halo was so successful when it came to Multiplayer, you could be a competitive gamer, beating your friends on LAN parties and 1v1’s and having fun at the same time. Not to mention the fact that people make their own fun with games in my opinion, if I did decide to play MLG on Halo 3, I made sure I Teabagged my team and my enemies, because I have a very dark humour. It’s the way you play the game that makes it competitive, and besides, everyone looks at videos that are showing some amazing kills, and usually it inspires people to try and beat people and play more competitively.
TL, DR? You can make a game both casual and competitive on your own, just alter your game-style can make a difference!
> Cater to the competitive, and there will be no worry. The casuals usually aspire to become competitive, anyway.
This is what I find also. We were all newbies at one point but we had to accept that to get better we would have to invest time and practice if we wanted to get better we were not given anything. But, I also had fun as a newbie in the FPS genre as of course shooting is fun in itself. But I also learned the rewards of getting better at games and knowing that I had progressed each week and growing as a player learning new things each week. Isnt that also fun?
A games game mechanics and depth is also optimized by catering to competitve players, isnt a game developers goal to make the best game possible? Surely hindering game mechanics will only do damage to a game and not allow its true potential to shine. I dont see how making a game optimal for competitve gameplay is a bad thing in any way. You are then truly making a game everyone can enjoy.
> but people just need to learn how to relax and have fun.
Does it ever occur to anyone that, for some people, engaging in difficult competitive gameplay IS fun? This casual ‘just relax and have fun man’ routine is such dog–Yoink- (not singling you out in particular, but there are a ton of casuals out there who deploy this crap in these threads and it gets on my nerves).
Surely there must be things for casual play that are accessible, but the objective should be to impress the competitives. We may not be many, but you don’t want to lose us, because then you start losing us and the casuals too.
> > but people just need to learn how to relax and have fun.
>
> Does it ever occur to anyone that, for some people, engaging in difficult competitive gameplay IS fun? This casual ‘just relax and have fun man’ routine is such dog-Yoink! (not singling you out in particular, but there are a ton of casuals out there who deploy this crap in these threads and it gets on my nerves).
Okay, yes sorry if that sounded bad. I’m saying is why can’t they cater to both? Make playlists for casuals, the most elite of the elite hardcores who want to be challenged in a fight, and some that are in the middle.
> > > but people just need to learn how to relax and have fun.
> >
> > Does it ever occur to anyone that, for some people, engaging in difficult competitive gameplay IS fun? This casual ‘just relax and have fun man’ routine is such dog-Yoink! (not singling you out in particular, but there are a ton of casuals out there who deploy this crap in these threads and it gets on my nerves).
>
> Okay, yes sorry if that sounded bad. I’m saying is why can’t they cater to both? Make playlists for casuals, the most elite of the elite hardcores who want to be challenged in a fight, and some that are in the middle.
True, they can do that. But that doesnt change the fact that the game mechanics and thus the game is catered to only type of player which makes some games unplayable or sub-par to the competitve FPS fan and our game experiences are being ruined.
For example if reticles are large,there is cheap gameplay, and aim assist is also high the game mechanics and thus the game are already excluding the competitve fanbase and not optimizing the games potential which I think is wrong and a pattern we are seeing WAY to much in todays FPS’s. Even if you have a “hardcore” playlist you cannot change the fact the game sucks for competitve gameplay, you are just giving them a compromised version of the game.
> > > > but people just need to learn how to relax and have fun.
> > >
> > > Does it ever occur to anyone that, for some people, engaging in difficult competitive gameplay IS fun? This casual ‘just relax and have fun man’ routine is such dog-Yoink! (not singling you out in particular, but there are a ton of casuals out there who deploy this crap in these threads and it gets on my nerves).
> >
> > Okay, yes sorry if that sounded bad. I’m saying is why can’t they cater to both? Make playlists for casuals, the most elite of the elite hardcores who want to be challenged in a fight, and some that are in the middle.
>
> True, they can do that. But that doesnt change the fact that the game mechanics and thus the game is catered to only type of player which makes some games unplayable or sub-par to the competitve FPS fan and our game experiences are being ruined.
>
> For example if reticles are large,there is cheap gameplay, and aim assist is also high the game mechanics and this the game are already excluding the competitve fanbase and not optimizing the games potential which I think is wrong and a pattern we are seeing WAY to much in todays FPS’s. Even if you have a “hardcore” playlist you cannot change the fact the game sucks for competitve gameplay, you are just giving them a compromised version of the game.
I will admit that the aim-assist annoys me, especially when I’m using the needler and facing two or more enemies. Reticule enlargement is realistic but I will also admit doesn’t exactly make for skillful gameplay. I think that all automatic weapons should have bloom but any precision weapons should not, such as DMR, needler rifle, sniper, pistol, etc. I think a spartan could hold a single-shot or even a burst gun straight and not sacrifice any accuracy with frequent firing, but fully automatic weapons would be another story.
Oh I agree with your thinking. But I also think your belief that Reach was created for casuals is false.
And this part
> Some Quake players were literally unkillable with enough skill and dedication, now players get kills by calling in attack dogs or using cheap gimmicks that make games shallow and tailored only to one player. The true spirit of gaming(specifically FPS’s) has died in my opinion, gamers do not want challenges or have to grow as a player they want instant reward for doing nothing.
Makes me say “what do you mean, what do you mean you people?” Because those dogs are a reward for killing and living long enough, so that isn’t an instant reward for doing nothing.
And since you can and should shoot the dogs before they get you, where’s the lack of lack of challenge for staying alive?
And really, you’re going to accuse “today’s” games of being shallow and tailor to only one type of player when I bet I can assume you mean to imply that without the BR button-combos, the Reach is shallow… because you can’t use that one weapon to kill them all.
> For example if reticles are large,there is cheap gameplay, and aim assist is also high the game mechanics and thus the game are already excluding the competitve fanbase and not optimizing the games potential which I think is wrong and a pattern we are seeing WAY to much in todays FPS’s.
Ok then, my bad. We both agree that Halo2 isn’t that really great a game for “true” competitive gaming.
> > For example if reticles are large,there is cheap gameplay, and aim assist is also high the game mechanics and thus the game are already excluding the competitve fanbase and not optimizing the games potential which I think is wrong and a pattern we are seeing WAY to much in todays FPS’s.
>
> Ok then, my bad. We both agree that Halo2 isn’t that really great a game for “true” competitive gaming.
Im not a casual gamer and FPS shooters are my fav but i belive that people who play casually i have a friend that can only play on the weekends. And he is constantly afraid of being insulted and riticuled by hardcore and competitive gamers. Now before you say its only in the MLG playlist it isnt in H3 even in social there was much name calling and insulting.
> Im not a casual gamer and FPS shooters are my fav but i belive that people who play casually i have a friend that can only play on the weekends. And he is constantly afraid of being insulted and riticuled by hardcore and competitive gamers. Now before you say its only in the MLG playlist it isnt in H3 even in social there was much name calling and insulting.
Mute button.
They shouldn’t casualize the game just because some people are afraid of being called names. There are assets in the game to prevent such occurances. I suggest they be used.
> Oh I agree with your thinking. But I also think your belief that Reach was created for casuals is false.
>
> And this part
>
>
> > Some Quake players were literally unkillable with enough skill and dedication, now players get kills by calling in attack dogs or using cheap gimmicks that make games shallow and tailored only to one player. The true spirit of gaming(specifically FPS’s) has died in my opinion, gamers do not want challenges or have to grow as a player they want instant reward for doing nothing.
>
> Makes me say “what do you mean, what do you mean you people?” Because those dogs are a reward for killing and living long enough, so that isn’t an instant reward for doing nothing.
> And since you can and should shoot the dogs before they get you, where’s the lack of lack of challenge for staying alive?
> And really, you’re going to accuse “today’s” games of being shallow and tailor to only one type of player when I bet I can assume you mean to imply that without the BR button-combos, the Reach is shallow… because you can’t use that one weapon to kill them all.
>
> There, now I too feel better
No, I do not think that Reach was made only for casuals it actually is one of the more competiitive FPS’s out there available on console but that is not saying alot lol. I see many changes and additions however in the Halo franchise being catered to one type of player which is true. I do think most AA’s as loadouts and reticle bloom in its current state detracts majorly from the competitve side of the game however. With a TU they could be made better, but they currently detract from competitve gameplay. Nobody thinks gimmicks or limiting a player is competitve and that goes for killstreak rewards which I find laughable as well.
I am not here to discuss the legitimacy however of Reach nor other Halo games however but to make a point.
> > Im not a casual gamer and FPS shooters are my fav but i belive that people who play casually i have a friend that can only play on the weekends. And he is constantly afraid of being insulted and riticuled by hardcore and competitive gamers. Now before you say its only in the MLG playlist it isnt in H3 even in social there was much name calling and insulting.
>
> Mute button.
That isn’t just Halo dude, that’s practically every game that supports online multiplayer, the mute button is definitely your friend when dealing with people like that.
> > For example if reticles are large,there is cheap gameplay, and aim assist is also high the game mechanics and thus the game are already excluding the competitve fanbase and not optimizing the games potential which I think is wrong and a pattern we are seeing WAY to much in todays FPS’s.
>
> Ok then, my bad. We both agree that Halo2 isn’t that really great a game for “true” competitive gaming.
I am just going to say the aim assist levels were made way to high for the game and other strategic elements were taken out that were in the original. That is why so many people turned to button glitches the aiming skill in H2 was terrible.
I agree with that too. And the SMG starts in default too boot… not my favourite memories at all );
And ok, I did come into this open minded but negatively biased we’ll say. But I will then add, I think you’ve either lost your way as to what it means to be a gamer or you haven’t had the fun of sniping pilots, gunners and passengers out of helicopters. Nor have you domed enemies you’ve just lost sight of behind the trees or a thin wall at a mile or so away, with bullet drop, on Battlefield BC2. The only time combat is slow in that game is when one of the teams really sucks compared to the other. Then it’s a foxhunt that does not end well for the foxes.
