Why Put So Much Effort Into Halo 5 Forge, 343i?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Before we begin, some disclaimers:

  1. Despite what it may seem, this post is not about bashing Halo 5: Guardians.
  2. This post is not intended to spark disputes.
  3. Any dispute that may occur warrants action against the offenders, not myself.
  4. This post does not belong in the “official split-screen thread” as it relates to forge.
  5. While split-screen is mentioned, by no means is it the main subject.
  6. Monitor responsibly, admins.

READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING
My point in this post: I like Halo 5: Guardians. I’d like to make maps for it. And, since I don’t abandon old, good games, I’d like for those maps to be accessible forever (like past games will allow). However, always-online multiplayer doesn’t allow that. And, as such, it was a wasted effort to even include a map editor of such a scale as the art made with it will vanish forever the day the servers are inevitably shut down with no way of viewing them.

When 343i designed the forge experience for Halo 5: Guardians, they were driven by a single goal: make the greatest map editor ever to grace a “console” (the Xbox One is, by definition, a PC) Halo game. However, with the decision to make the multiplayer experience in Halo 5: Guardians online-only, all of those maps made in easily the most complex forge mode ever will soon go away.

Why “soon”? Simple. The Xbox One’s hardware is by no means as powerful as it should be as a 2013 piece of tech. Open one up and you’ll see how little power it really has. Since launch, devs have inadvertently stated that it’s almost impossible to create the fully realized games they want. Hell, Microsoft has already stated that they plan on releasing an Xbox after the Xbox One. While that doesn’t mean it’s going to be released tomorrow, they already plan to replace the Xbox One. And when they do, the Xbox One’s metaphorical heart rate will begin to flat-line until the online services are no more. And while the new console will, most likely, be backwards compatible, no console lasts forever. What this means is that all your hard work in Halo 5: Guardians will one day be nothing but memories.

Now before we go further, a quick explanation: While I know that younger gamers/more casual, older gamers tend to ditch games when sequels are released, there are those of us who, on occasion, will replay those games as a game’s quality doesn’t deteriorate with age. In, say, fifteen years, if Halo 5: Guardians is your favorite game right now, you can never replay the multiplayer again. Even LAAN is impossible with the Xbox One without an Xbox Live connection.

Now that you (hopefully) have a deeper understanding, can you see why the forge was a wasted effort? I mean, it isn’t like the standard maps were made using it. The forge exists purely so 343i can make DLC maps without having to over-stress employees. So I ask you, 343i. Was it worth it just to create an empty incentive for people to buy REQ packs?

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Interesting point of view, but don’t people make maps in forge so they can play them now? I’m not sure that I see the issue with a lack of longevity - and in any case, if they are popular enough can’t they be supported in the next xbox via backwards compatibility? Am I missing the point?

3

some of it seemed a bit choppy what point you were trying to get to, but i think i understand the gist of it. if not sorry then?

you are asking why 343 spent so much time developing forge knowing a new console will be later developed? i mean it sounds like you are questioning why they tried to bring us the best forge possible? that doesnt make sense. i want the developers to put their hearts into every single game i play. that is their job if they want to continue keeping a fan base/community. plus a new xbox wont roll out for at least 2-3 more years. what halo has been around for 13-14 years now and this is the third xbox… so you can expect the xboxone to have another 2 years minimum, in which yes it seems well worth the time putting this much effort into the forge. also a new halo game is suppose to come out every year. your same question can be asked about that also.

now as i said at first i might have missed your point, but i only answered thinking i got the gist. if i missed the point my bad

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> 2745721379973487;2:
> Interesting point of view, but don’t people make maps in forge so they can play them now? I’m not sure that I see the issue with a lack of longevity - and in any case, if they are popular enough can’t they be supported in the next xbox via backwards compatibility? Am I missing the point?

Yes. You are. As stated, that Xbox won’t always be supported. And I doubt the next one will be double backwards compatible. As for longevity? I still play my old maps.

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> 2533274881086487;3:
> some of it seemed a bit choppy what point you were trying to get to, but i think i understand the gist of it. if not sorry then?
>
> you are asking why 343 spent so much time developing forge knowing a new console will be later developed? i mean it sounds like you are questioning why they tried to bring us the best forge possible? that doesnt make sense. i want the developers to put their hearts into every single game i play. that is their job if they want to continue keeping a fan base/community. plus a new xbox wont roll out for at least 2-3 more years. what halo has been around for 13-14 years now and this is the third xbox… so you can expect the xboxone to have another 2 years minimum, in which yes it seems well worth the time putting this much effort into the forge. also a new halo game is suppose to come out every year. your same question can be asked about that also.
>
> now as i said at first i might have missed your point, but i only answered thinking i got the gist. if i missed the point my bad

My point is that why make a map editor for a multiplayer that will cease to exist in a few years because of DRM?

6

They are wrong with the greatest map editor, PC or console, maybe you can do a lot of things in one spot but not over a large zone like real map editors.

But yeah about wasted effort, somewhat… enjoy watching people playing on your map with you as much as possible then, maps will always be there to remember some good things…

Since Halo 3, I remake a map and the gametype that follow that special map, that reminds me how the gametype was different on a lot of things in Halo 3 and the ammount of crazy games I played on with 7 guys.

It’s not 100% wasted don’t worry.

7

The Xbox is now a PC. Shouldn’t this mean that 343 should be able to use the same forge and keep building upon it? If so, then it is not out of the question that they would enable us to use the custom maps that we create now in future Halo games.

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> 2533274839077070;7:
> The Xbox is now a PC. Shouldn’t this mean that 343 should be able to use the same forge and keep building upon it? If so, then it is not out of the question that they would enable us to use the custom maps that we create now in future Halo games.

Depends on how the next gen Xbox is built. However, it is possible.

9

Correct me if I’m wrong but you’re effectively saying Forge was a wasted effort because it won’t last forever? I don’t really understand, because by that logic, why make anything? Nothing lasts forever. Why make a game at all if there’ll be a better one in a year or two? Because a year or two is lot of time to enjoy the crap out of a game. Myself and others have already dumped unhealthy amounts of time into playing with Forge. It’s already been made worth it in just a month of release, let alone what will be accomplished with it in the next year.

Also, Halo 6’s Forge will inevitably be built upon this one. Nothing’s a waste when you keep building on what you have and know.

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> 2533274802029738;9:
> Correct me if I’m wrong but you’re effectively saying Forge was a wasted effort because it won’t last forever? I don’t really understand, because by that logic, why make anything? Nothing lasts forever. Why make a game at all if there’ll be a better one in a year or two? Because a year or two is lot of time to enjoy the crap out of a game. Myself and others have already dumped unhealthy amounts of time into playing with Forge. It’s already been made worth it in just a month of release, let alone what will be accomplished with it in the next year.
>
> Also, Halo 6’s Forge will inevitably be built upon this one. Nothings a waste when you keep building on what you have and know.

Going back to my original post, age doesn’t determine quality.

11

If they do plan on making a new xbox one, only thing to see that is different is hardware changes however software will most likely stay the same, that way xbox one games will be able to be read on a so called new xbox hardware. However emulator is still required for a backwards compatibility.

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> 2535409103705542;11:
> If they do plan on making a new xbox one, only thing to see that is different is hardware changes however software will most likely stay the same, that way xbox one games will be able to be read on a so called new xbox hardware. However emulator is still required for a backwards compatibility.

True. Doubt they’ll drop the modified Windows 10. However, servers still need to exist for the multiplayer to function. Since I’ve already explained why that’s relevant, I won’t bother wasting time repeating it.

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> 2533274934443240;12:
> > 2535409103705542;11:
> > If they do plan on making a new xbox one, only thing to see that is different is hardware changes however software will most likely stay the same, that way xbox one games will be able to be read on a so called new xbox hardware. However emulator is still required for a backwards compatibility.
>
>
> True. Doubt they’ll drop the modified Windows 10. However, servers still need to exist for the multiplayer to function. Since I’ve already explained why that’s important, I won’t bother wasting time repeating it.

When they made the changes from the first xbox 360 to the xbox 360, all the servers and services must have stayed the same, even so, if they were to change out the servers they would have a back up system or the cloud to store all your personal data.

14

I was fine until I read this:

> The forge exists purely so 343i can make DLC maps without having to over-stress employees.

I honestly don’t see the point in thinking like this. All games have their lifespan, and more games than ever have online capabilities. Even if offline play is still possible, there will be features that will inevitably be lost when the servers are shut off.

With Halo 5’s functions being completely online (bar campaign, I think), we’re bound to lose a lot of accessibility to the game. TBH, however, I don’t think that’ll matter when the time finally comes. The Xbox 360 servers have still been going, and the original 360 Halos have dipped in population at this point. People still play them, yes. They’ll still be able to Forge and do customs offline, but how many will still be doing that where it’ll be a big deal? They’ll be 10-15 year old games by then, chances are most will move on to new games.

This probably isn’t your intent, but it sounds like you’re saying Forge, in its current state, is best left out of Halo 5 because it’ll be unusable years from now. Besides, who’s to say they won’t patch in P2P support for forge/customs when its end comes; I don’t believe that’s unheard of.

Anyway, the new Forge is absolutely wonderful and is a hugely positive feature for the game. Enjoy it now, and stop worrying about things too far to think about. Forge is not for DLC, that’s a pretty ignorant statement. The state of remix maps and monthly updates are another argument; don’t drag Forge into it.

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> 2535409103705542;13:
> > 2533274934443240;12:
> > > 2535409103705542;11:
> > > If they do plan on making a new xbox one, only thing to see that is different is hardware changes however software will most likely stay the same, that way xbox one games will be able to be read on a so called new xbox hardware. However emulator is still required for a backwards compatibility.
> >
> >
> > True. Doubt they’ll drop the modified Windows 10. However, servers still need to exist for the multiplayer to function. Since I’ve already explained why that’s important, I won’t bother wasting time repeating it.
>
>
> When they made the changes from the first xbox 360 to the xbox 360, all the servers and services must have stayed the same, even so, if they were to change out the servers they would have a back up system or the cloud to store all your personal data.

Wait. I didn’t mean they’re making a new model Xbox One. They’re talking about a new console.

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> 2533274934443240;10:
> > 2533274802029738;9:
> > Correct me if I’m wrong but you’re effectively saying Forge was a wasted effort because it won’t last forever? I don’t really understand, because by that logic, why make anything? Nothing lasts forever. Why make a game at all if there’ll be a better one in a year or two? Because a year or two is lot of time to enjoy the crap out of a game. Myself and others have already dumped unhealthy amounts of time into playing with Forge. It’s already been made worth it in just a month of release, let alone what will be accomplished with it in the next year.
> >
> > Also, Halo 6’s Forge will inevitably be built upon this one. Nothings a waste when you keep building on what you have and know.
>
>
> Going back to my original post, age doesn’t determine quality.

I’m with Josoi. There’s always going to be another system in the works - everyone knows that - but how does that make Halo 5’s forge different from any previous halo? Or are you just saying that forge is a waste of time, period? We have at least 2 more years of console life. 2016 has a broad lineup of games and it wouldn’t be the time for microsoft to announce a new system. More likely, announcements wouldn’t come until 2017, which means a new console wouldn’t come out until the end of 2017, or more likely, sometime in 2018. But even to your point on power, I’m not in agreement. The xbox one is plenty capable. Don’t listen to what people are saying and instead look at what people are creating. Is this not quality enough? Halo 5 Forge Map Showcase: Station 7 (Terminal Remake with Working Trains!) - YouTube Really the only thing missing in forge is the ability to add texture to objects, but I think it’s more than feasible for 343 to add that feature in a future update. Ultimately, it sounds like you are just wanting backwards compatibility for forge in future halo games, and that’s fine. But I think what we have now is really good, and the current forge more than justifies its future use.

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> 2533274828236493;14:
> I was fine until I read this:
>
>
> > The forge exists purely so 343i can make DLC maps without having to over-stress employees.
>
>
> I honestly don’t see the point in thinking like this. All games have their lifespan, and more games than ever have online capabilities. Even if offline play is still possible, there will be features that will inevitably be lost when the servers are shut off.
>
> With Halo 5’s functions being completely online (bar campaign, I think), we’re bound to lose a lot of accessibility to the game. TBH, however, I don’t think that’ll matter when the time finally comes. The Xbox 360 servers have still been going, and the original 360 Halos have dipped in population at this point. People still play them, yes. They’ll still be able to Forge and do customs offline, but how many will still be doing that where it’ll be a big deal? They’ll be 10-15 year old games by then, chances are most will move on to new games.
>
> This probably isn’t your intent, but it sounds like you’re saying Forge, in its current state, is best left out of Halo 5 because it’ll be unusable years from now. Besides, who’s to say they won’t patch in P2P support for forge/customs when its end comes; I don’t believe that’s unheard of.
>
> Anyway, the new Forge is absolutely wonderful and is a hugely positive feature for the game. Enjoy it now, and stop worrying about things too far to think about. Forge is not for DLC, that’s a pretty ignorant statement. The state of remix maps and monthly updates are another argument; don’t drag Forge into it.

The maps are forge-made, are they not? And as for the inevitability of content loss? Not an issue. However, it’s only not an issue if there are alternatives. For example, split-screen. That allows the multiplayer to not just die because of server loss. I don’t care it I lose parts of the game. However, I at LEAST want a way to play the game with friends once the servers go. Hell, even if it’s just campaign coop. Enough of this always-online BS. And, again, not everyone abandons old games. Age doesn’t deteriorate quality. I love Halo 2 so you better be damn sure that I’m playing that when I have buddies over. And, since it has split-screen and offline LAAN support, that game’s going nowhere. As for a forge example? Halo 3. Don’t need servers to play my maps on there.

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> 2533274804182731;16:
> > 2533274934443240;10:
> > > 2533274802029738;9:
> > > Correct me if I’m wrong but you’re effectively saying Forge was a wasted effort because it won’t last forever? I don’t really understand, because by that logic, why make anything? Nothing lasts forever. Why make a game at all if there’ll be a better one in a year or two? Because a year or two is lot of time to enjoy the crap out of a game. Myself and others have already dumped unhealthy amounts of time into playing with Forge. It’s already been made worth it in just a month of release, let alone what will be accomplished with it in the next year.
> > >
> > > Also, Halo 6’s Forge will inevitably be built upon this one. Nothings a waste when you keep building on what you have and know.
> >
> >
> > Going back to my original post, age doesn’t determine quality.
>
>
> I’m with Josoi. There’s always going to be another system in the works - everyone knows that - but how does that make Halo 5’s forge different from any previous halo? Or are you just saying that forge is a waste of time, period? We have at least 2 more years of console life. 2016 has a broad lineup of games and it wouldn’t be the time for microsoft to announce a new system. More likely, announcements wouldn’t come until 2017, which means a new console wouldn’t come out until the end of 2017, or more likely, sometime in 2018. But even to your point on power, I’m not in agreement. The xbox one is plenty capable. Don’t listen to what people are saying and instead look at what people are creating. Is this not quality enough? Halo 5 Forge Map Showcase: Station 7 (Terminal Remake with Working Trains!) - YouTube Really the only thing missing in forge is the ability to add texture to objects, but I think it’s more than feasible for 343 to add that feature in a future update. Ultimately, it sounds like you are just wanting backwards compatibility for forge in future halo games, and that’s fine. But I think what we have now is really good, and the current forge more than justifies its future use.

Let me ask you, as this is the question clogging my mind as I read these responses: Did you not read my original post? Because I have no idea how I could have worded it any clearer. I like Halo 5: Guardians’ multiplayer. I’d like to make maps for it. I’d like to be able to relive memories on those maps with friends until the day where I (maybe) outgrow gaming. I would like a fun old game to be an option alongside fun new games. When the servers go, that won’t be an option. I don’t abandon old games because they’re old. As such, I don’t want the multiplayer in Halo 5: Guardians to go. Halo 2’s multiplayer still exists because online wasn’t mandatory for it. I’d like Halo 5: Guardians to be the same. That’s my point.

19

I don’t care if the Xbox one is low tech. It’s fun

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> 2535415903218588;19:
> I don’t care if the Xbox one is low tech. It’s fun

Cool. Wasn’t my point.