why ordnance is a great idea in halo...

Games Other Halo
66

> The point of Personal Ordnance, its sole reason for existence, is to give every player an equal chance to have and use a power weapon. It was specifically designed to lower the skill gap between good players and poor players and is therefore imbalanced by design.

> Lower-ranked players do not know how weapons and abilities should be used, how other players’ weapons and abilities should be countered, and how to best take advantage of the system, so games are going to play a lot differently.

All I’m saying is that skilled players better understand how to use the game’s mechanics to their advantage. An game’s imbalance is magnified among skilled players.

Imagine a game of Sniper Rifles vs. Beam Rifles among equally lower-skilled players. The team with Beam Rifles may win because of the higher magnetism, but only slightly. It may even seem like a close match. With the same gametype among equally highly skilled players who know how much easier the Beam Rifle is to use than the Sniper Rifle, the difference in scores at the end of the game will be much higher.

67

Fine. then if it is to be relsvant, actually look at my stats and gamepkay. i primarily plate slayer. i might have four games with negative kd. you can see by checking stats i NEVER play in a group. in slayer car is based on team, not individual. my stats are great, but it doesn’t mean i can handle a teammates getting 30 deaths. cs
r is irrelevant.

Especially in less not based on individual performance. not all of us stack our friendlier with great halo players
mine is family only

68

I never play in parties either; I always search alone.

69

Sorry. might get bad. typing front phone now…

70

> > No one ever brings up skill of another if they agree.
> >
> > I’ve never seen a thread where someone agrees and is shot down because their stats aren’t as good as others’ stats who agree.
> >
> > As in this case, if OP would have had a different view on Ordnance, like it’s a pile of crap. None of you who brought it up would have mentioned his skill levels.
> >
> > Lay off bringing skill into the discussion, it’s totally irrelevant.
>
> Wouldn’t skill be relevant in a game so heavily based upon skill, such as Halo though?

Not really.

If a player has a hight skill level compared to another it can be for many different reasons, provided they’ve played an close to the same amount of matches and gametypes.

You can very well understand the game but be bad at the actual gameplay and thus gain a low rank, or be superb at the gameplay but not quite grasp the game itself and thus achieve a higher rank.

Saying that a low skilled player doesn’t have any say in a discussion is bringing every single low skilled player down regardless of wether or not they have an understanding of the game, if we’re discussin game related mechanics.

Same goes with agreeing with someone, if low skilled players aren’t allowed to disagree about certain aspects of gameplay mechanics because “they lack understanding of the game”, then low skilled players who do agree shouldn’t be counted either. But that certainly hasn’t happened.

71

> i guess you missed the life lesson, when someone says, “i don’t mean to offend you, but…” they’re about to say something offense and ignorant.

I never attacked you personally or said anything with the intent or purpose of insulting you. If a player is not skilled or experienced in a game, that player isn’t as qualified to make arguments about its rules and balance as someone who is (I’m not saying he isn’t allowed to have opinions). I attacked your qualifications, not you as a person, in an effort to debase your argument. That’s a legitimate and reasonable debate tactic.

> again though, you all assume a lot of things by judging based off of csr. you assume we all have the same connection speeds. pretty much most that are sitting at 50 in everything have great connections and are generally host.

That’s an assumption too. Isn’t it also possible that many people have CSR 50s because they earned it through skill?

You also assumed that I search with parties when I don’t. With the exception of two or three sessions just for fun, I always search alone.

> point is, there are far too many variable in csr alone to use it as the only value you base it on. last i checked, before he patch, 4 was sitting at around 20k player… it’s jumped up markedly. you think some may still be too new to have gotten their csr to its apex? no, none of these are possible! bringing up my 14 csr is completely relevant!

I’ve only played maybe six games of Big Team Slayer and my CSR is 38. CSR in Big Team Slayer and Infinity Slayer are based solely on individual performance related to others in the match (source). You may not have played enough matches to reach where you should be, but you’re definitely at least very close.

EDIT:

> Saying that a low skilled player doesn’t have any say in a discussion is bringing every single low skilled player down regardless of wether or not they have an understanding of the game, if we’re discussin game related mechanics.

That’s not what I said. I said that Infinity Slayer plays a lot differently with low-skilled players than with high-skilled players, and the OP, since he does not play with highly skilled players, would not know this. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with him as a player, nor that all of his opinions are inherently invalid. It’s the same as if a person came in with opinions about which Halo FPS out of the five was the best when he’d only played one or two of them.

We’re deviating a bit from the topic, so I’d like to refer back to my first post in this thread, where the deviation started. I made several points that have yet to be addressed and have nothing to do anyone’s skill.

72

I have always thought of Ordnance Drops, prevent teammates from killing each other over a sniper rifle or a rocket launcher.

73

…I hope we all understand that CSR is a joke in the first place that doesn’t determine skill, but how many kills you get per game… It’s not like the days of Halo 3 where somebody having a 50 actually proved they knew what they were talking about. And offense or not, using somebody’s stats either for or against the player is not right, and shouldn’t be done in the forums. Daalani has a right to get frustrated. Keep it to yourselves.

On topic, I like the idea of PO, but here are some ideas on how they could improve it. First, Instead of dropping right next to the player, have it drop relatively close to the player. This would force a player to use better judgement about when they drop their ordnance. Also, I think that opponents should be able to steal the drop without a delay. This would further force the player to use better judgement about when they should drop the ordnance. Then I make the stupidest analogy I ever made on these forums, and hang my head in shame

74

Everything in Halo 4’s Multiplayer is a great idea, its just not perfected yet.

75

I agree with Wagnerok’s opinion.

76

> …I hope we all understand that CSR is a joke in the first place that doesn’t determine skill, but how many kills you get per game… It’s not like the days of Halo 3 where somebody having a 50 actually proved they knew what they were talking about. And offense or not, using somebody’s stats either for or against the player is not right, and shouldn’t be done in the forums. Daalani has a right to get frustrated. Keep it to yourselves.
>
> On topic, I like the idea of PO, but here are some ideas on how they could improve it. First, Instead of dropping right next to the player, have it drop relatively close to the player. This would force a player to use better judgement about when they drop their ordnance. Also, I think that opponents should be able to steal the drop without a delay. This would further force the player to use better judgement about when they should drop the ordnance. <mark>I know it would just be adding to the randomness, but a negative times a negative makes a positive.</mark>

But adding and multiplication is not the same thing.

If you add a negative number to a negative number it becomes even “more” negative thann the two negatives in the first place.

77

I just went though a journey of 4 page long arguments and ideas well that was fun (holds my head from headache)

OT: I don’t mind personal ordinances and I fail to see how it’s from cod, it works differently and halo gives you guns. cod gives you planes, turrets and other crap, how many other shooters has this feature? A lot, I find that part invalid.

The ordinances aren’t prefect but it’s something new and it can me balance in good ways to fit in halo. I don’t know how but it can be.

78

Ordinance was the worst idea ever thought of. It simply adds too many power weapons on the map at any given time. I’m sick of the guy going -12 being handed a rocket launcher or incineration cannon to end my Riot or Rampage. Halo was about learning skill and applying it to games to best your opponent. A game based on skill should never be dumbed down to casual level. This is not second grade and everyone doesn’t deserve a trophy. If you stink with the sniper, don’t take it from the guy who is on a frenzy protecting your team. Halo 4 was dumbed down so unskilled players can feel like winners. Why should I strive to improve when everyone is a winner? Ordinance is NOT balanced in any way. I’m on a riot, why do I get a needler while the other team gets damaged boost, binary, sniper, and rockets. Can you make this game anymore handicap accessible? Ordinance needs to go. Going -12 is no excuse to be handed power weapons. I don’t know how else to put it.

79

imo Ordinance needs a lot of tweaking if 343i insists on keeping it in Halo. I don’t know about you guys, but I don’t consider Needlers or Concussion Rifles to be anywhere near as helpful as, say, a Sniper Rifle or a Rocket Launcher.

80

Wheelchair spartans anyone? Make it go away.

81

No, Personal Ordinance (Care Package, Kill Streak Rewards) do not belong in Halo at all and are a terrible idea, and the reason is simple.

Halo is/was supposed to be an Arena Shooter, something you would know If you have played Halo from 1 to 3 and even Reach (However I disliked the option to select a loadout even if it was game specific)

Halo used to be about equal footing, everyone starting with the same gear and the same chances of succeeding in battle, only differentiating players by their skill, a skill wich involved:

  • Map control
  • Knowing locations and spawn times of power weapons

This 2 things have been completely obliterated thanks to POD, why would I go out of cover and try locking down a position on the map when I can shoot once or twice and get an OD because of accumulated assists? (Oh thats right you can get OD without even killing) and also if you die your counter does not reset (Wich would at least be a good thing to add so at least if you get an OD it means you had a spree going)

This type of randomness destroys every and any competitive aspect of Halo, on previous games you knew how many PW’s were in play and wich, and based on that you could take out the players carrying this PW’s now it is always a coin toss as you do not know if the guy you just killed randomly got an OD with rockets, binary rifle and such allowing him to get a free kill.

In previous Halos you had to be good to earn your kills I played against many newbies wich would finish a match with 0 kills, now with OD even the worst player can get some lucky rockets and get a few kills in, as if 343I is saying, oh you suck? it doesnt matter here have a power weapon so you can feel better about your self when you kill someone with it.

TL;DR

POD’s destroy competitiveness in the game
Loadouts hurt Halo because they are trying to turn an Arena shooter into a class based shooter.

82

> > …I hope we all understand that CSR is a joke in the first place that doesn’t determine skill, but how many kills you get per game… It’s not like the days of Halo 3 where somebody having a 50 actually proved they knew what they were talking about. And offense or not, using somebody’s stats either for or against the player is not right, and shouldn’t be done in the forums. Daalani has a right to get frustrated. Keep it to yourselves.
> >
> > On topic, I like the idea of PO, but here are some ideas on how they could improve it. First, Instead of dropping right next to the player, have it drop relatively close to the player. This would force a player to use better judgement about when they drop their ordnance. Also, I think that opponents should be able to steal the drop without a delay. This would further force the player to use better judgement about when they should drop the ordnance.
>
> But adding and multiplication is not the same thing.
>
> If you add a negative number to a negative number it becomes even “more” negative thann the two negatives in the first place.

Touche

Probably shouldn’t have even bothered editing that in in the first place… It was mostly irrelevant to my topic, and more comedic than anything, but I knew something like this was going to happen. Stupid edit on my part, and thank you for not letting me get away with it. Anyways, it would still force better judgement when you obtain ordnance so you couldn’t just spam it in the heat of battle. Since the entire concept of personal ordnance is random, the least we can do if we want to keep it is force people to think when they get it.

I removed the highlighted portion out of shame…

I also am for it being removed all together, just wanting to add that in there. I’m just throwing out ideas in the situation that it’s not an option to get rid of it.

83

> > The point of Personal Ordnance, its sole reason for existence, is to give every player an equal chance to have and use a power weapon. It was specifically designed to lower the skill gap between good players and poor players and is therefore imbalanced by design.
>
>
>
> > Lower-ranked players do not know how weapons and abilities should be used, how other players’ weapons and abilities should be countered, and how to best take advantage of the system, so games are going to play a lot differently.
>
> All I’m saying is that skilled players better understand how to use the game’s mechanics to their advantage. An game’s imbalance is magnified among skilled players.
>
> Imagine a game of Sniper Rifles vs. Beam Rifles among equally lower-skilled players. The team with Beam Rifles may win because of the higher magnetism, but only slightly. It may even seem like a close match. With the same gametype among equally highly skilled players who know how much easier the Beam Rifle is to use than the Sniper Rifle, the difference in scores at the end of the game will be much higher.

if you jip a four man slayer match and lose, regardless of how well you played, you will lose csr.

if you jip a big team slayer late, win, but didn’t really get a chance to get many kills, you go down in csr.

host is an important factor in a p2p game.

parties are an important factor.

skill of those you are playing with in some.

available armor abilities and the likes… a 130 has more options than a level 50 even.

you act like it’s your skill alone that defines csr. it isn’t. it’s a combination of factors.

you act like there’s no way anyone with low csr could be skilled. forgetting that people have delevelled themselves to play with lowbies, or like me, just don’t care and jip every match they play.

you want to talk about my skill? how about mentioning i’m at 1.74 k/d (which is up on when you first checked at 1.73 and it’s almost all slayer… showing it’s still going up instead of down. if you’re not at a 1/1 you’re not playing at your skill level anyways (since we’re going off of your perfect world anyway); and if you think that’s anything but helpful to the teams I play SLAYER on, you’re so blind to how this game plays, it’s pathetic.

if you still think your csr is an actual measure of your skill level, YOU ARE THE ONE WITH NO CONCEPT OF THE QUIRKS OF THE GAME, not me.

csr has no place in discussion on the forum. it’s a complete joke.