Why not a "new" modified Ranking System?

How come this idea never gets tossed around? It’s not rocket science really, there must be a formula out there that actually works, right? I’ve finally come to terms, theyve dropped the ball with this in Halo 4, but looking forward to H5, H6, why not get it right.

I thought of a way that “could” work in future Halo’s, for everybody to enjoy, if you’ll just hear me out for a second. It encompasses each of Halo 2, Halo 3, and Reach’s ranking systems, in a good way, so here goes…

Firstly, have ranked AND social playlists, so everybody can enjoy, the competitive community and the casual community. There’s an obvious huge divide, so this pleases both.

Now as for the Ranking system. I wasn’t a fan of Reach’s system, but I think they actually got it right in terms of it resetting each month. That being said, why not adopt Halo 2’s classic style of 1-50 ranking, where you start at level 1 and work your way up to where ever, where your given rank is whatever your current rank actually is (same as H2). Play that for a month, and at the end you get your final rank.

Then the following month, it reset’s, and everyones back to level 1 and you start over. Though next month and the following month’s you can have your highest monthly rank in quotations or something.

Pro’s to this:
-Casual’s don’t have to play if they don’t want to, there’s social playlists.
-Halo hardcorer’s like myself get to keep our beloved 1-50 system.
-You get the enjoyment of ranking up in the beginning, which is always fun.
-Your rank resets monthly, so it diminishes the point of ppl buying or boosting for 50’s.
-Which would decrease the cheating/abuse the 1-50 system has had.
-Every months a clean slate, get to try and better your best rank.
-Keeps each month fresh and new, especially to new players.

Anyhow I think this would be a good idea going forward, seems to appease everyone. What do you think?

Cheers

Ranks resetting is not an optimal way for a skill based system to work. It goes against the whole point of skill based ranks, and that is to match players near your abilities so that games are close, competitive and fun.

At the beginning of each month it should be a lottery, essentially where everyone plays everyone, the better players will rank up faster and further, and essentially at that point be battling it out with fellow like-skilled players in order to get even higher. It’ll just a resetting modified true-skill style, which is how it always worked

> Ranks resetting is not an optimal way for a skill based system to work. It goes against the whole point of skill based ranks, and that is to match players near your abilities so that games are close, competitive and fun.

i don’t really think so in this way you have a running average which would give a truer skill level

i support you op i like this idea

> At the beginning of each month it should be a lottery, essentially where everyone plays everyone, the better players will rank up faster and further, and essentially at that point be battling it out with fellow like-skilled players in order to get even higher. It’ll just a resetting modified true-skill style, which is how it always worked

It should not be a “lottery” at the beginning of each month. You should be playing peopel at your skill level all the time.

In Halo 3, it took roughly 93 games for trueskill to place you where you belonged, even if you shorten that, why should we play that many games each month to get competitive matches?

> At the beginning of each month it should be a lottery, essentially where everyone plays everyone, the better players will rank up faster and further, and essentially at that point be battling it out with fellow like-skilled players in order to get even higher. It’ll just a resetting modified true-skill style, which is how it always worked

That would be awful in my opinion, a lot of people might not play for extended periods and it simply wouldn’t function well nor would people care about achieving a rank every month all that much.

The Halo 3 1-50 system was very good, it was rare that a highlry ranked player was not of a skill level matching their rank. The cheating/boosting situation is blown way out of proportion. Firstly boosting allowed people to get a slightly higher rank than they were deserving of (maybe 3-4 levels max) and a minority of top ranks were achieved this way, it didn’t affect gameplay that much.

I believe Bungie/343 could have easily tweaked this system to discourage boosting (any other form of cheating such as network manipulation was very rare in Halo 3). I think the boosting reason was just a convenient justification for people with a personal agenda to remove the skill based ranking system.

All the above is fairly redundant anyway as there is such a narrow skill gap in Halo 4, probably thanks to the same people making the decisions who clearly want it that way. I really don’t understand why people are so concerned about a skill based ranking system in Halo 4, it sadly jst isn’t a skilful game.

I’d rather have (instead of separate ranked and social playlists) a ranked matchmaking search preference.

Im speaking of a modified internal true skill ranking system. Like in Halo 3, you rank up to say level 40, then youre playing fellow players with a similar rank, hence similar skill level at that point. The lottery aspect is just to sort out each person’s true skill roughly in the beginning of each month. Remember It worked well in Halo 3 in the beginning, but obv got abused over many months. But with it resetting each month, negates that.

> > Ranks resetting is not an optimal way for a skill based system to work. It goes against the whole point of skill based ranks, and that is to match players near your abilities so that games are close, competitive and fun.
>
> i don’t really think so in this way you have a running average which would give a truer skill level
>
> i support you op i like this idea

That “running average” will give out a number that will be very close to the number they would have in a system that doesnt reset.

It doesnt matter if someone averages out a 46 but in a system that resets they would have a 48 or 44, that difference is negligible.

> Ranks resetting is not an optimal way for a skill based system to work. It goes against the whole point of skill based ranks, and that is to match players near your abilities so that games are close, competitive and fun.

It IS a solution to people plateauing at a certain rank though. I’d rather have recent matches weighted much more heavily than older matches in a ranking system, to allow players to move up in rank if they improve despite having a bad record against them.

Plateauing was the main thing I hated about Halo 3, because I sucked at it for the longest time, then suddenly everything clicked and I got a lot better in the months before Reach, but I had already played too many matches for this improvement to influence my rank.

As long as they dont implement a sigma ranking under it, I could see your plan working OP.

> > Ranks resetting is not an optimal way for a skill based system to work. It goes against the whole point of skill based ranks, and that is to match players near your abilities so that games are close, competitive and fun.
>
> It IS a solution to people plateauing at a certain rank though. I’d rather have recent matches weighted much more heavily than older matches in a ranking system, to allow players to move up in rank if they improve despite having a bad record against them.
>
> Plateauing was the main thing I hated about Halo 3, because I sucked at it for the longest time, then suddenly everything clicked and I got a lot better in the months before Reach, but I had already played too many matches for this improvement to influence my rank.

You can reduce the “rank lock” that was in Halo 3, in fact you can make it nonexistent.

However, unless you make a significant improvment, you are not going to get that much higher than the level you are stuck at, and for ranking purposes that is fine. If you do make a significant improvment you WILL level up past where you are locked. I can take any rank locked account at any level and get it to a 50, it is not impossible to get to the level you “deserve.”

There is not much difference between a level 44 and a level 46 or 48, and that is all rank lock did was prevent the few extra levels you would get on a new account.

Just look at League of Legends (a team game) new ranking system. Its amazing. They didnt just say “Well we had issues with the last one, so better ditch it” they made it better, and suitable for all levels. Amazing. They EMBRACE competition, not view it as a bad thing, like 343 tends to do.

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-league-system-coming-soon-ranked

On the topic of 343 philosphy, look at this, a developer of Lol is doing a Ask me anything on Reddit, about the system! Thats real developer support!

Thanks Deluca, lol hated the sigma ranking silliness too.

Just wanted to clarify quickly as I feel I’m being misinterpreted a bit, or more accurately I wasn’t clear. In regards to true skill or evenly matched opponents, all i was trying to say was…

Remember when Halo 3 first came out, day 1, when everyone’s level 1. You play a bunch of games, get beat bad a few games, kick the cheese out of your opponents in others. It was obviously like that to start, cuz it was essentially a lottery of who plays against who. Then after a few days I was level 20 or so then the matches became more competitive, a week later in and around 40 where I pretty much hovered, and it was highly competitive. Then two more weeks of that.

Sorry but that was loadsss of fun, that first month specifically was great bc it had a little of everything, initially pummeling lesser players, then having close games, then meeting your match later on. All I’m getting at is why not relive that experience over again monthly? Trying to better yourself each month. To me thats perfect.

Essentially the start of each month is a clean sheet, you get to re-experience that first month of Halo 3-esk ranking up enjoyment over again repeatedly. Think that would be fantastic.

@Outkasts

Very nice! Wow, well I guess not all hope is lost

i made a thread about this a while ago, nobody came up with any legitamate problems with it. as for your points, i hated how rank was forcibly reset in reach, as did many others obviously (poor population). I think h2/3 did it almost perfectly but a rank reset could have fixed many issues. i present to you my plan on the perfect 1-50 ranking system:


This visual in game ranking system is what SHOULD be implemented for Halo 4’s matchmaking.

Main Characteristics: Based on Halo 2/3’s 1-50 ranking system with some small tweaks to curb cheating and general unfairness that comes with any ranking system. I will not go into detail on how those ranking systems work because any competant halo player already knows, I will only highlight changes.

The reason why we see so many people complaining and crying about how 1-50 ranking systems will pretty much be addressed by the following (with exception to those people being upset because they aren’t good enough to achieve the rank they want [probably the biggest reason for complaining])

  1. Boosting/DeRanking and how to stop it:
    First off, you can’t fully stop boosting in a ranked playlist, its just a part of the game, but this will help to curb it. In halo 3 from time to time it was common to run into a deranker. I noticed this a lot in team dubs (partially my fault for always playing on my own). They would either quit out at the start of the match, sabotage you, or on occasion help you win and quit out at the last second. The only way to deter from people deranking is to put a restriction on the account to not allow a player access into the ranked playlist until they hit a milestone, for example SR50. There will certainly be a lot less people willing to derank AFTER they invest the time into reaching SR50. Especially because the derankers are using a 3 day to 1 month xbox live pass for their deranking account, now such a short xbl pass becomes a problem.

  2. The Purchasing of 50’s & Becoming “Rank Locked”
    Let me say this to start. I really could care less is some scrub feels the need to buy a 50, it doesn’t bother me, in fact, I think its kind of funny. If you are a competent player you will be able to see they are terrible and didn’t earn their 50 very quickly. It doesn’t really undermine the system because to be honest, what is there like 5% of all 50’s purchased, big deal.

People also complain of becoming Rank Locked, which was actually annoying. Halo 3 was the first game I played a lot of online. I was a noob at first, but I became pretty good after learning the game. I progressed to about a level 43 or 44 (cant remember) but had a hard time getting over the hump. I believe part of that was because I had so many games logged that I got at least partially rank locked. Of course I could have played better or played with friends more often.

The solution to this problem is simple, 343 should allow people to reset their rank back to 0 2-4 times a year in a 2 week period in ANY playlist AND they should allow you to prestige your rank once/if you hit 50 back to 0 (Might as well, they already ripped off most of CoD anyway). When I was stuck at 43, I could have reset my rank to 0, cleared my true skill and worked my way back up the ladder with a fresh start.

Now lets say you earned yourself a 50 and you want more motivation. You reset your rank (but keep your General or whatever status and visual marker that you are indeed a General) and work your way back to 50 vs other people that have done that too (to make it fair for people who are new). Then once you get to 50 again you can be a 2 Star General and then reset your rank again and go after 3 Star or something to that equivalent. This system will also combat boosters because sure anybody can buy a 50, but can that person then earn a second 50 after they purchase it, NO. Also it would increase the amount of work (thus deter) people from wanting to start boosting up to a 5 Star General after of course leveling that character to SR50. If you want to complain that there won’t be enough people to compete against at that point than they can lump Gen. Grade 2+ all together or something. Also, there were many people who achieved a 50 and because they were scared of losing it for whatever reason, they would stop playing in that playlist even if they really wanted to play it; this system would fix that problem.

Resetting your rank back to 0 (from below 50) will put you back into play with everybody (except Generals who prestiged) but the MM system can primarily try to match you up against those who have also reset. Because you would only be able to do this a a few times a year, there would be an influx of others who have reset for you to match up against to help keep newer players and those who are legitimately terrible unaffected by the influx of more skilled players.

  1. Cheaters/Modders
    There will always be cheaters at any game whether its a video game or pro sport. However, Xbox Live is pretty good at detecting and banning cheaters/modders, at least its way better than PC, Wii, and PS3. The only real cheating that can be done is by people who use Jtag’d or RGH’d 360’s that can also unban themselves from xbox live which is possible but very very very rare. I played a lot of Reach and ran into only one modder that was doing stuff like that. The only other forms of cheating are lag switches and bridge hosting which is watched by the ban hammer and whose detection can always be increased. I guess you can lump HLG/hiders into this category too, but if you look up hiding spots on youtube than you can end that pretty quickly on your own.

  2. Egotistical A-holes, Trash Talkers, Mean People
    MUTE THEM, MUTE THEM, MUTE THEM, MUTE THEM.
    Also Play Social, Or maybe just trade in your 360 for a Wii and play animal crossing because as long as their are headsets some immature people are going to be annoying.

TL:DR
A ranking system is needed to increase the longevity of the game. Arena in Reach was a joke and not even a consideration IMO. If you think 1-50 ranking wasn’t fair you are either bad at the game or had minor gripes that I addressed with easy fixes above.

Please let me know what you think, I would be interested to see feedback and/or constructive criticism. Do you think 343 would ever implement something like this?

Only in a perfect world, OP.

@Carl crunk

Well said, personally that works for me, seems we’re on similar wavelengths. Point is a modified system could and would essentially work, it’s just a matter of whether 343i has any interest in bringing back a system like ours or any version similar to it. And sadly, I don’t think they really want to.

> @Carl crunk
>
> Well said, personally that works for me, seems we’re on similar wavelengths. Point is a modified system could and would essentially work, it’s just a matter of whether 343i has any interest in bringing back a system like ours or any version similar to it. And sadly, I don’t think they really want to.

343 seems to want to reinvent the wheel on everything they can get their grubby little hands on. just like how we are stuck with a horrible interface (one of the very few things Reach did right)in halo 4 that is a huge step backwards. people tell me i hate change, when i bring up things like this but that is no true. change for the sake of improvement is great (see halo 3’s menu system being upgraded to halo reach’s) but change for the sake of change can and in this case is a bad thing (see useless vehicles from halo 3 to halo reach/4_

i am pretty sure whatever ranking system we get (if we even get one) will be inefficient, pointless, and probably only ranked in a playlist that has a terribly balanced sandbox. what’s worse is that the ranked haters will say “SEE NOBODY LIEKZ TEH RANX NO MOAR!!#” when in reality nobody liked 343’s ranking system. kinda similar to how nobody liked their slayer pro because it was unbalanced, not because it was ‘pro’.

It’s not exactly new, but monthly is too often of a reset

It’s just new seasons, your stats reset just like any sport (or League of Legends). but seasons should be longer so you can actually achieve the highest rank/league, there’s no point of monthly because before you reach 50 you’ll be reset