Why not a Covenant Mantis?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Anyone else think the Mantis should have been a Covenant vehicle instead of UNSC? Traditionally walkers are more of a Covenant thing than UNSC, I can’t help but think seeing a walker like the Mantis with sleek curves, dabbed in Purple/Blue(or Purple/Green) would have been amazing and probably better than the UNSC theme it got.

But what about the future? Would you like to see a Covenant walker like that in Halo 5? Hell, why not with some minor changes bring back the Locust as a heavy vehicle? It would work!

2

Look up the “Locust” from Halo wars.

3

BlackPlague’s right.

A popular idea is to bring both the Mantis and the Locust into the next game then they could have a giant robot fight.

4

I think the counterpart system is flawed. Covenant don’t have to have a counterpart for every UNSC gun/vehicle. I liked how the Covenant guns in CE were unique and had special attributes.

But since the Covies already have a Mantis equivalent (i.e. Locust), I wouldn’t mind it’s inclusion if it were balanced.

5

> I think the counterpart system is flawed. Covenant don’t have to have a counterpart for every UNSC gun/vehicle. I liked how the Covenant guns in CE were unique and had special attributes.
>
> But since the Covies already have a Mantis equivalent (i.e. Locust), I wouldn’t mind it’s inclusion if it were balanced.

i do miss the uniqueness with weapons while i’ve grown accustom to human/covy counterparts i thought the addition of promethean weapons was a good opportunity to bring unique weapons and still do. i’m all for a locust but i hope they do more than forerunner reskins of weapons in the next game.

6

My Mechanic for the Locust should it return. posted a couple of times both here and on 343i.org

Storm Locust:

It’s weapons should be the Long Distance Beam, Which should have the DPS of the Warthog Turret, and have dual Plasma Cannons (Ghost DPS). also, each trigger activates a weapon, but they can’t be fired simultaneously. Pressing Y switches the Beam to Overcharge mode like it has in Halo Wars, Which drains it’s shields (it’s shields would be stronger than the Mantis shields, but the Vehicles health would be lower, Hitting both the Mantis and Locust with plasma weapons of all kinds [Including Vehicle ones] would lower shields faster) . In the same sense as holding the trigger in slightly gives the Ghost a slower boost, but it lasts longer, Holding the trigger in further increases the multiplier, Maxing at 1.6x (I will post shield drain rate/seconds below), but decreases your shields faster, and vice versa. Once your shields are depleted, you revert to the normal beam, and can’t use the overcharge until you have full shields again. there is an overheat for both weapons, while one is cooling, the other can still be used. to prevent a constant switch spam, the time it takes to cool-down should take longer than the overheat, so there is a skill gap with this vehicle. It has a potential Longer Range, when used correctly. It moves faster than the mantis going forward or backwards, but slower when “strafing” left or right.

the 3 Overcharge states are:

Regular Beam: Blue, 1x Multiplier, No Shield Drain

Overcharges, Y to switch to:

Trigger Held about 1/3s in: 1.2x Multiplier, 2/12s of your shields per second (6 seconds of continuous fire), Blue, thicker than normal beam.

Trigger Held about 2/3s in: 1.4x Multiplier, 3/12s of your shields per second (4 seconds of continuous fire), Purple, thicker than normal beam

Trigger Held fully in: 1.6 Multiplier, 6/12s of your shields per second (2 seconds of continuous fire), Red, Thicker than normal beam.

There should be three versions for forge. the one I stated above, which is purple, and a blue one, that has a the regular beam , the overcharge is a instant drop of all shields, but fires a spartan laser strength beam (blue beam), and takes a full cool-down to use the beam again, and the last one is concussion rifle colored, it fires concussion rifle shots instead of plasma cannons (12 before reload) and the same beam traits as the purple locust, it is better at close range covering itself, but not very good for long range cover when beam is unavailabe.

7

Because Scarab, OP. Scarab.

8

I’m not really a fan of throwing things in because: “EVERYTHING NEEDS A COUNTERPART”

9

> My Mechanic for the Locust should it return. posted a couple of times both here and on 343i.org
>
> Storm Locust:
>
> It’s weapons should be the Long Distance Beam, Which should have the DPS of the Warthog Turret, and have dual Plasma Cannons (Ghost DPS). also, each trigger activates a weapon, but they can’t be fired simultaneously. Pressing Y switches the Beam to Overcharge mode like it has in Halo Wars, Which drains it’s shields (it’s shields would be stronger than the Mantis shields, but the Vehicles health would be lower, Hitting both the Mantis and Locust with plasma weapons of all kinds [Including Vehicle ones] would lower shields faster) . In the same sense as holding the trigger in slightly gives the Ghost a slower boost, but it lasts longer, Holding the trigger in further increases the multiplier, Maxing at 1.6x (I will post shield drain rate/seconds below), but decreases your shields faster, and vice versa. Once your shields are depleted, you revert to the normal beam, and can’t use the overcharge until you have full shields again. there is an overheat for both weapons, while one is cooling, the other can still be used. to prevent a constant switch spam, the time it takes to cool-down should take longer than the overheat, so there is a skill gap with this vehicle. It has a potential Longer Range, when used correctly. It moves faster than the mantis going forward or backwards, but slower when “strafing” left or right.
>
>
> the 3 Overcharge states are:
>
> Regular Beam: Blue, 1x Multiplier, No Shield Drain
>
> Overcharges, Y to switch to:
>
> Trigger Held about 1/3s in: 1.2x Multiplier, 2/12s of your shields per second (6 seconds of continuous fire), Blue, thicker than normal beam.
>
>
> Trigger Held about 2/3s in: 1.4x Multiplier, 3/12s of your shields per second (4 seconds of continuous fire), Purple, thicker than normal beam
>
>
> Trigger Held fully in: 1.6 Multiplier, 6/12s of your shields per second (2 seconds of continuous fire), Red, Thicker than normal beam.
>
> There should be three versions for forge. the one I stated above, which is purple, and a blue one, that has a the regular beam , the overcharge is a instant drop of all shields, but fires a spartan laser strength beam (blue beam), and takes a full cool-down to use the beam again, and the last one is concussion rifle colored, it fires concussion rifle shots instead of plasma cannons (12 before reload) and the same beam traits as the purple locust, it is better at close range covering itself, but not very good for long range cover when beam is unavailabe.

I think that this would serve as an unique counterpart for the Mantis.
Like others have said not everything needs a counterpart, but this way it should be more than just a ‘counterpart’

Why you may ask?
Beam, Overcharged Beam, four legs, with multiplier and strong shields but not much health vs Machine Gun, Stomp, Missles, two legs, no multipliers, weak shields but health o’ plenty.

10

> I’m not really a fan of throwing things in because: “EVERYTHING NEEDS A COUNTERPART”

Only that’s not what he’s saying. The OPs suggesting that maybe the mantis should have been a covenant vehicle in the first place because the covenant aesthetic would fit a bipedal mech better.

11

Bring on the Locust!

12

I’ve always felt that weapons and vehicles having counterparts (as in an option for similar situations) is a good idea. But the problem is that lazy design schemes have weapons that are effectively the same thing.

Just look at the Sniper and Beam Rifle, it’s a terrible pair of counterparts, they are both two hit kill/one hit headshot, in every game other than Halo 4 they had the same aim assist mechanics, the only difference? Oh one is Plasma and overheats, the other fires bullets and reloads.

The Focus Rifle on the other hand, while a bit too weak and in need of some balancing readjustment, was a GREAT counterpart to the Sniper. It was more flexible,and reliable across ANY range, while the sniper fell heavily on luck and “in the zone” clutch moments at any range not directly optimal for either the 5x, or 10x scope. And the ENTIRE firing mechanic of the gun was different.

In Halo CE the only real “counterparts” were that the AR was counterpart to the Plasma Rifle, and the Magnum counterparted both the Needler, and the Plasma Pistol. Since the PP and Needler are completely different from the Magnum that was awesome, the Plasma Rifle and AR were the most similar guns in the game, but ANYONE who’s played it can tell you why they are so different, in look, feel, function, fire rate, range, purpose, skillset etc. The AR was a high RoF close quarters melting machine, the closer you could get, the better it was, and it really suffered in engagements at mid range. The Plasma Rifle, on the other hand, didn’t have the raw damage output of the AR, but was capable of being a very powerful close-mid range weapon if you lead your shots, took advantage of the Semi-Automatic fire mode of the weapon at appropriate ranges, and knew how to headshot and exploit plasma stun. The guns were completely different despite filling the same “purpose” being a primary Assault Rifle for their respective faction.

We need more AR’s vs Plasma Rifles, and less AR’s vs Storm Rifles.

13

We should perfect the Mantis before introducing another variant.

14

> We should perfect the Mantis before introducing another variant.

Well the problem with that is that the mantis must be improved around the new Covey counterpart (hopefully locust) otherwise you have a vehicle that is fixed to combat warthogs, banshees, wraiths, etc, but not one to combat the locust.

Imo, besides the opinion that the locust should get into Halo multiplayer, it should be a quick vehicle with good agility and speed. I don’t think it should be able to stomp, that should remain unique to the mantis, but instead be able to do a quick lunge or jump for evasive/assault purposes.

15

OP herE: First I would like to state I didn’t mean we need a Covenant counterpart of the Mantis just for the sake of having a counterpart. I hate that, thats why we got the Forerunner weapons in Halo 4 that were nothing but re-skinned weapons we already have, instead of the unique alien weapons they should have been. I meant that the Mantis should have been a Covenant vehicle instead of a UNSC one in Halo 4, but since Halo 5 is supposed to be bigger and better why not bring back the Locust?

> > We should perfect the Mantis before introducing another variant.
>
> Well the problem with that is that the mantis must be improved around the new Covey counterpart (hopefully locust) otherwise you have a vehicle that is fixed to combat warthogs, banshees, wraiths, etc, but not one to combat the locust.
>
> Imo, besides the opinion that the locust should get into Halo multiplayer, it should be a quick vehicle with good agility and speed. I don’t think it should be able to stomp, that should remain unique to the mantis, but instead be able to do a quick lunge or jump for evasive/assault purposes.

Remember though, to include the Locust Halo 5 would have to have LARGER BTB than any Halo game before, AT LEAST Battlefield sized, Battlefront sized preferable. Because the Locust is a BIG vehicle, about 50% bigger than the Mantis with heaver weapons.

Also to the first two posters(besides me) Yes I know the Locust existed, I MENTIONED IT IN THE OP.

16

> Remember though, to include the Locust Halo 5 would have to have LARGER BTB than any Halo game before, AT LEAST Battlefield sized, Battlefront sized preferable. Because the Locust is a BIG vehicle, about 50% bigger than the Mantis with heaver weapons.

Who says it needs to be the Halo Wars version?

17

What would it bring to the table besides redundancy?

The Mantis is already arguably redundant to the Scorpion given how it fulfills the same Power Trip vehicle for Power Trip vehicle section in Campaign. The fact that it’s more durable but less offensive upfront and has some novelty to it are the saving graces.

A Covenant Mantis wouldn’t bring that.

18

The Locust would fit the role quite nicely, I think.

19

> What would it bring to the table besides redundancy?
>
> The Mantis is already arguably redundant to the Scorpion given how it fulfills the same Power Trip vehicle for Power Trip vehicle section in Campaign. The fact that it’s more durable but less offensive upfront and has some novelty to it are the saving graces.
>
> A Covenant Mantis wouldn’t bring that.

This^

If anything, the Mantis harms multiplayer much more than how it benefits. I’ll use Ragnarok as an example of the crimes that the Mantis has committed.

When it was first introduced as a spiritual successor to Blood Gulch in Halo 3, Vahalla was loved for it’s strategic flank zones, beautiful scenery, and perfect elements of map control. Now, in Halo 4, the map has a small difference that does a -Yoink- load of changes. That, my friends, is called the Mantis.

While the Mantis is sure as hell fun to use, it ruins Ragnarok. The once strategic flank zones and areas of map control are crushed by the Mantis having complete and undisputed reign over the map, and to make matters worse, the Mantis is rarely able to cross the central ridge of the map without being slaughtered.

Essentially, the Mantis ruins Ragnarok’s once notable map flow, and it fails to have a noticeable effect on the victory of your team. The cons of the Mantis, without a doubt, outweigh the pros.

I’m also going to use Meltdown as an example of what the Mantis does to multiplayer and maps.

Meltdown certainly has the potential to bring back the fluid gameplay that was demonstrated in CE through maps such as Infinity and Danger Canyon. Its multi-leveled figure 8 structure and numerous caves and mancannons that send players to strategic locations make it a magnificent map. However, each and every great thing about Meltdown is butchered by the Mantis.

The central bridge on Meltdown just becomes a Mantis vs Mantis engagement that completely distracts map flow from the other areas of the map. Instead of taking advantage of the various caves and mancannons to flank the enemy that is camped within the confines of their base, both teams are busy trying to kill each other’s Mantis. Even more disturbing, the open areas of the map are congested by people either trying to kill the Mantis, or running from it. The caves are over crowded by people who seek cover from the Mantis, turning them into blood-baths instead of strategic flank points. Also, the lower level of Meltdown’s figure 8 shape is rarely used due to how the game focuses around the area with the Mantis. Ultimately, again, the Mantis is destroyed by the enemy team moments after it crosses that central light bridge. It adds nothing to map control, and it breaks the map flow.

So, you can imagine that after these various atrocities that the Mantis endures on multiplayer, a Covenant counterpart wouldn’t do it any justice. In fact, both the roles of the Mantis, and the Locust, are used by two EXISTING vehicles. These vehicles are called the Scorpion, and the Wraith. And unlike the Mantis, the Scorpion and the Wraith benefit team work AND map flow, rather than destroy it.

20

>

I agree, quite honestly I feel the Mantis ruins Ragnarok. But who says the Locust would play anything like the Mantis?