So they dont step on toes when forge launches and they rely on community maps for 9 months i suppose.
To be honest, I donât get the Question?
A Link for what exactly? Do you mean the Release Date for Forge?
According to the Roadmap, itâs coming out in September.
If Forge really comes out in September, I can guarantee that almost every Map will have Dozens, if not hundreds of Remakes by October. The best ones / the most polished ones will end up in Matchmaking.
Halo as a Franchise has a lot of Problems, but the Forge Team has done a great Job in the Past, same goes for the Forge Community. This is one of the things Iâm not concerned about.
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The problem is now,
Will it REALLY come out in September.
Or will it get pushed into 2023 maybe by March because they need to Hire the same Outsourced company after December to continue working on it.
They should have been releasing new maps alongside the fracture events. Tenrai would have been good with an Ivory Tower or Battle Creek. Entrenched would have been perfect Burial Grounds or Highground. Each themed season should add one Rakshasa and Ghost Town. Reach and Powerhouse. 343 is missing this hype train.
I modded that map in H2A it is now called ZanziBar Runins. It is fun to play!!
Peace! 
Granted Iâve never been in the making games industry. However, Iâve worked with budgets and resource management. It is easier and cheaper to reuse old stuff. They do still pay people to make any map old or new. What they save money on is man hours, concept art, designing layouts, play testing, weapon/vehicle placement. Thereâs still expenses but not nearly as much. Iâm still surprised 343 doesnât have a small department just for this.
There isnt a damn thing to reuse mate.
The geometry is scratch.
Needs to be scaled and retooled for the current physics.
Sandbox of wealons have new behaviours effecting placemwnt and balance.
You have a basic mesh and some concept art to go off in making remakes so it isnt much of a savour in the pipeline at all.
Additionally loom at midships/the pit remakes or Black out, the fact is these maps rarely match the original.
Its easier to iterate on new mals as you arent trying to rework a known space to fit the new systems.
Are you trying to make the point that remaking a map like the pit into halo infinite would cost 343 the same as making a brand new map?
I donât see how cutting out the man hours for concept artists, level designers, cutting hours on play testing because everyone knows the pit is a prime example of what a symmetrical arcade shooter map with good flow should be. On the front end that can be a lot of money saved from map creation. On the back end building it in engine would cost nearly the same as a new map. But overall there is a lot of savings to the budget seeing as most likely 343 hires contractors to produce a set amount of work then they are dropped off the payroll.
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I wouldnt mind seeing more âinspiredâ maps, but just an old map with a fresh coat of paint is like CoDâs nuketownâŚjust beating a dead horse.
A retelling of an old map would necessarily work due to new physics, gameplay speed and mechanics, vehicle sandboxâŚetc. While itd be a cool to see a legacy map in rotation, i fear its nostalgia baiting. Something 343i is struggling with in general.
Im not trying to make any point.
Rather, I am explaining the logic leads may have from my own experience in the industry and additional observations pertaining to this particular franchises history.
Most maps are meshed and grey boxed until testing is more or less done.
Then you will likely pull in an artist to do a production pass.
Said artist has a set of existing art assets with bespoke being done for final or near to.
The artist is likely to pull from reference concept done at the top of production and incorperates it into the mals aesthetic probably provided a brief on what type of visual language the AD wants or does not.
They will either be told to interpret the space or have a location brief.
The pit exists as 3 maps in halo
The halo 3 pit, well liked map.
Pitfall halo 4 dlc, a less liked map.
Halo 5s break out map. (Sorry forgot the name)
All 3 play extremely differently.
5 in particular as its almost unrecognisable.
Due to the sweeping changes in the sandbox.
From this we can isolate a few data points of note.
Map layout is effected by sandbox.
Reused maps require reworks.
Some abilities will conpletely change the maps flow.
Weapon spawns effect the experience a great deal.
To make a faithful map remake may require more bespoke assets than a new map not envoking a legacy map. Making it cost more than a map that is built from the preexisting assets they have on hand.
Remakes will be made by a free set of content creators with the intro of forge, to cannibalise that is not a clever use of funds.
It would rob momentum from the forges introduction to the game and the pace at which community maps are MM ready.
Reworking an existing space to fit systems in a new title can be as slow and costly as creating spaces for those systems.
The time on play testing wont be that different.
Look at the prelaunch interviews of H5G, where they talk extensively about the changes made to truth thriugh production and how long that map, a remake of mid ship took.
Then consider every midship remake and how the concensus is none came close to the original.
This hire by map thesis does not suggest savings 8n the least.
A set team with a production pipeline that are familiar with themselves and existing assets will lead to a far more productive production.
Hence why there are multiple major studios who specialise in map pack production in the industry.
The fact is the difference in developing a new map from a paper sketch and the cost of redesigning a classic one is not that different.
So obviously a focus on new maps is a good idea when you plan on launching an editor into the hands of a rabbid fanbase versed in the design of the legacy maps that will generate that content for you and in doing so build the community.
With many weapons having very new takes on the niches of classic counter parts id wager trying to replicate classic maps is not worth the time investment.
Especailly when players can point to older iterations and show them to be superior iterations(hypothetically).
Push forward on new maps built around the sandbox they have now is likely the mantra as it will cost about as much.
Most maps dont take long to go from paper to greyscale.
Often the classics see little change.
Of course there are outliers.
But even a redesign is going to start life as a paper sketch.
That sketch will be altered according to changes in player traits and the weapon sandbox.
Then it will get boxed, tested, changed, rinse repeat, finalised, art comes in and cleans up, testing final art and buld pass, gold.
So it seems the smarter move from the production standpoint is new maps not legacy remakes.
And while i donât think itd hurt to have dev made classics. I can see why the leads would avoid them.
You have great perspective, appreciate these posts.
How long do you think it would take a properly staffed team (e.g., a team you would expect at a AAA live-service studio, or a studio specializing in map development as you mentioned) to create a new arena map?
Acknowledging that of course there are competing priorities.
Thinking about this time in H5âs lifecycle (Fall launch â Summer), the ranked rotation (although some were shifted in and out) was:
-Torque/Stasis
-Empire/Eden
-Plaza/Overgrowth
-Truth/Regret
-Riptide
-Coliseum
-Molten
-Fathom
-Tyrant
-The Rig
That places H5 at more than double the maps in play compared to HI.
Years back when I worked for Intel ( Server Motherbord Team ). There should teams for each section of the game. They should be full time employees PERIOD!
Example:
Grafix team
Sound Team
Custom Games team
Map Development Team
ECT ECT ECT.
What ever happen to the Halo community testing games and updates like signing up for firefight so the Halo Community Can do some testing before releasing it to the public? ( to be honest it feels like we all are beta testing this game these days lol )
Peace!
Hineslry cant hazaed a guess. Jot sire of the particulars of slipspace.
The knly note worthy addition i can make is the remixes were probably easier to build bexaise they had assets and a map structure built for the existingnsnadbox.
âŚwhat?
20char20char20char
Why 20?
There are so many classic Halo maps so to be fair it would be difficult to decide which ones are most worthy of coming back. Cant just fill the game to the brim with rehashes. However it would be fun to play some old Halo maps in Infinites sandbox.
Personally (as a normal arena player) I would like to see any of the following: Guardian (H3), The Pit (H3), Citadel (H3), Sanctuary (H2), Midship (H2), Coliseum (H5), Plaza (H5).