Why must we "remove" Personal Loadouts?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Some say it breaks map control, others say that it’s “CoDified.” A few say that it cannot possibly balanced, while others tend to say that destroyed equal starts…

Well, I, for one, say “screw that!”

Just because a feature is currently flawed doesn’t instantly mean that the concept won’t ever work. If you say that “Personal Loadouts break map control!” I think that you’d be better off pointing your fingers at Personal Ordnance. If some of you say that “it lets people spawn with over-powered weapons,” then let’s remove the ability to spawn with over-powered weapons.

Personal Loadouts and balanced, arena-style gameplay can coexisted - and here’s why:

The concept of Personal Loadouts itself is to let player’s enjoy their own play-style without usurping the flow of the game. If I excel in mid-range, but I prefer the Carbine over the Battle Rifle, I should be able to spawn with my Carbine. If I am a pro at shredding my opponents up close and personal, but I like to drop shields faster and inflict a killing melee attack, I should be able to spawn with a Plasma Repeater instead of an Assault Rifle.

If the Loadout Weapons are perfectly balanced with each other and only work best in their designated niches, then they will uphold the “arena-style” gameplay but also making the game more immersible. Also, if we let people chose their weapons from the beginning, and not have to unlock them… Then we will truly have equal starts.

Now, Halo 4’s real stab against Personal Loadouts was how it allowed people to spawn with a POWER-WEAPON, the addition of perks, game-breaking armor abilities, and how it resulted in the destruction of vehicle combat with the ability to have Plasma Grenades and a Plasma Pistol at start.

Perks really don’t have a place in Halo, they result in the removal of base traits, and do nothing other than take up space. We can all agree that perks can be thrown away and put behind us. Also, to revive vehicle gamplay, the grenade choice will be limited to 2 Frags.

Armor Abilities can somewhat have a place in loadouts, the Thruster Pack, Hologram, Regeneration Field, and the Autosentry all improve teamwork in one way or another. However, the game-breaking, blood-boiling, and infamous Active Camo, Jetpack, and Promethean Vision would be better off placed on the map and returned to a “power-up” state. We could also treat the Jetpack as a vehicle, meaning that a few well placed shots at your opponent’s Jetpack could cause a sizable (and deadly) explosion.

Now, the most detailed thing I must cover are Secondary Weapons. I will even use a nestled Spoiler!

Secondary Loadouts are on a bad spot for us right now. Vehicle gameplay is destroyed by Plasma Pistols, and the game turns into a camping-frenzy with the handy dandy Boltshot.

Most want secondary weapons to be limited down to just a Magnum, but that would kind of limit the immersion that we could have.

After playing Halo 3 a few days ago, I noticed that the dual-wieldable weapons such as the SMG, Spiker, and Plasma Rifle were all nerfed as stand-alone weapons. Perhaps we could allow the player have choose between a Magnum, SMG, and Plasma Rifle for their secondary weapons.

The Magnum would be the choice for you if you wanted to retain your “Marksmen-ism” after your trusty DMR has ran out of ammo (before you scream at me for including the DMR/LR, descope would eliminate any further imbalance that it would cause.)

If you are enjoying the acts of spay-and-pray up close, your SMG (which will only be effective at close-range for the sake of balance) will serve you well. The Plasma Rifle will serve those who prefer shield-removal + Melee (like me) in that same niche.

If you are wondering why I didn’t include the Spiker in this list, I felt that the Spiker seems like more of a primary weapon in my mind - kind of like the Halo Reach version.

Finally, the last step is to detail which items are available in personal loadouts:

Primary Weapons:

  • Assault Rifle
  • Plasma Repeater
  • Battle Rifle
  • Covenant Carbine

Secondary Weapons:

  • Magnum
  • Needle Pistol
  • SMG
  • Plasma Rifle

Equipment:

  • Radar Jammer
  • Flare
  • Regeneration Field
  • Deployable Cover

The End…

Atop of what I just said in the long list of Spoiler boxes, the player can customize their weapons (aesthetically) via Weapon Skins. These skins are unlocked by commendations and are NOT exclusive to any weapon.

Loadout Weapons list and function.

2

As far as I’m concerned, what breaks equal starts is function. If players can choose between weapons that function the same way, but with minor differences within that function, then I can’t see a problem.
They’ll always know what they’re up against, and they will always have the same tools to take control of the situation.
Similar weapons do the same thing; they strip a player’s shield/health in response to the player’s aim and use of the trigger. They don’t allow you to approach the encounter in a unique way to your opponent.

Whereas AAs literally give players different abilities. Instead of being tiny differences in rate of fire, power etc. It becomes a difference of ability to control the outcome of the encounter.
If one player has Camo, and the other has Hard light Shield, then they are doing entirely different things and have unique advantages over each other.

Similarly, perks give players unique advantages over each other, such as more grenades, and therefore do not adhere to equal starts in any sense.

This is why I’m personally OK with limited load outs that focus on appropriate weapons; not abilities or perks.

3

Basically what Jazzii Man said.

4

AAs like hologram or thruster are fine to spawn with. The next game should build off of these two. If AAs are all skill based then I fail to see a problem.

5

I think it should be removed because that one “feature” is what changed the entire series from an arena shooter to a class based shooter, and I cannot think of a single logical reason why they were added in the first place. Having that followed up by a poor execution made Halo 4 the quickest Halo game I’ve ever shelved.

6

> AAs like hologram or thruster are fine to spawn with. The next game should build off of these two. If AAs are all skill based then I fail to see a problem.

As far as I’m concerned, Hologram and Thruster would be better suited as pickups, exactly like the other AAs.
Whatever fun and skill they provide would still be there, only players would have to compete for them and wouldn’t have them indefinitely. This means they would be valued and used more wisely by players, and would prevent them from cluttering almost every encounter.

Putting Thruster and Hologram on the maps would not negate their skill based use, it would only work to add another layer of skill to the mix.

7

I think they should be removed entirely.

This feature is not from Halo. 343 has to give us a re-invented Halo 3, not Reach like with Halo 4.
-imo of course

I think the game should return back to it’s arena style roots with weapon spawns and powerups. Kill streaks could be placed in but thats all you need.

8

I think Reach did loadouts right. Everyone had the same options, which is important. In most game modes, there were only 1 or 2 options, which leveled the playing field even more. People say that Reach ruined Halo because of Loadouts, but I thought that was a happy medium between full-force Arena and a little bit of modernization.

9

Keep loadouts, balance sandbox further, dismiss personal ordinance (forever) make AA’s map pickups except sprint and make better maps for all this.

10

> I think Reach did loadouts right. Everyone had the same options, which is important. In most game modes, there were only 1 or 2 options, which leveled the playing field even more. People say that Reach ruined Halo because of Loadouts, but I thought that was a happy medium between full-force Arena and a little bit of modernization.

I agree sir.

11

> I think it should be removed because that one “feature” is what changed the entire series from an arena shooter to a class based shooter, and I cannot think of a single logical reason why they were added in the first place. Having that followed up by a poor execution made Halo 4 the quickest Halo game I’ve ever shelved.

Here’s a few “logical” reasons on why they were added.

If you were someone who played the hell out of Halo 3, you’ll remember that it slowly became boring to either spawn with an AR or BR all of the time. While this does allow for much more strategic gameplay, most “casual gamers” (which sadly makes up 90% of gamers) will get bored of playing the same thing over and over again.

Like what I said in the OP, I highly prefer the Carbine over the BR. Since all “loadout weapons” are perfectly balanced with each other, why shouldn’t I be able to spawn with my favorite weapon? Why should I be forced to use a Battle Rifle instead of a Carbine despite the fact that they are perfectly balanced with each other?

Equal-Starts doesn’t explicitly mean “the same exact thing,” it means that you spawn with something that isn’t better than any other. The Assault Rifle and the Storm Rifle are only good at close range. The Carbine and the Battle Rifle are best at mid-range. The DMR and the LightRifle excel at long range.

None of these weapons overpower each other outside of their intended niches, I think that we’re still adhering to equal-starts and balance. Opposing this in any logical way is therefore beyond me…

12

> > I think it should be removed because that one “feature” is what changed the entire series from an arena shooter to a class based shooter, and I cannot think of a single logical reason why they were added in the first place. Having that followed up by a poor execution made Halo 4 the quickest Halo game I’ve ever shelved.
>
> Here’s a few “logical” reasons on why they were added.
>
> If you were someone who played the hell out of Halo 3, you’ll remember that it slowly became boring to either spawn with an AR or BR all of the time. While this does allow for much more strategic gameplay, most “casual gamers” (which sadly makes up 90% of gamers) will get bored of playing the same thing over and over again.
>
> Like what I said in the OP, I highly prefer the Carbine over the BR. Since all “loadout weapons” are perfectly balanced with each other, why shouldn’t I be able to spawn with my favorite weapon? Why should I be forced to use a Battle Rifle instead of a Carbine despite the fact that they are perfectly balanced with each other?
>
> Equal-Starts doesn’t explicitly mean “the same exact thing,” it means that you spawn with something that isn’t better than any other. The Assault Rifle and the Storm Rifle are only good at close range. The Carbine and the Battle Rifle are best at mid-range. The DMR and the LightRifle excel at long range.
>
> None of these weapons overpower each other outside of their intended niches, I think that we’re still adhering to equal-starts and balance. Opposing this in any logical way is therefore beyond me…

THANK YOU. 3 did get bland after a while.

Here’s 5: Keep loadouts (balance better), remove personal ordinance (forever), AA’s are map pickup (except sprint), and excellent maps for all this.

Who’s with me here?

13

> > I think it should be removed because that one “feature” is what changed the entire series from an arena shooter to a class based shooter, and I cannot think of a single logical reason why they were added in the first place. Having that followed up by a poor execution made Halo 4 the quickest Halo game I’ve ever shelved.
>
> Here’s a few “logical” reasons on why they were added.
>
> If you were someone who played the hell out of Halo 3, you’ll remember that it slowly became boring to either spawn with an AR or BR all of the time. While this does allow for much more strategic gameplay, most “casual gamers” (which sadly makes up 90% of gamers) will get bored of playing the same thing over and over again.
>
> Like what I said in the OP, I highly prefer the Carbine over the BR. Since all “loadout weapons” are perfectly balanced with each other, why shouldn’t I be able to spawn with my favorite weapon? Why should I be forced to use a Battle Rifle instead of a Carbine despite the fact that they are perfectly balanced with each other?
>
> Equal-Starts doesn’t explicitly mean “the same exact thing,” it means that you spawn with something that isn’t better than any other. The Assault Rifle and the Storm Rifle are only good at close range. The Carbine and the Battle Rifle are best at mid-range. The DMR and the LightRifle excel at long range.
>
> None of these weapons overpower each other outside of their intended niches, I think that we’re still adhering to equal-starts and balance. Opposing this in any logical way is therefore beyond me…

I’ve never had the problem of getting tired of spawning with the BR since there was a variety of weapons to fight for on the map.
Also you referred to the loadout weapons as “perfectly balanced” which couldn’t be further from the truth. If any of the weapons were “perfectly balanced” then they’d just be the same weapon with a re-skin and that would significantly limit weapon variety. The whole point of having different weapons is for then to serve different purposes and to function best under different conditions, and by “perfectly balancing” any weapons it would completely destroy that purpose.

14

Perfect balance means you don’t have BR’s going toe to toe with most AR’s over and over, and shotguns even.

15

I am surprised SWIFT has not responded to this yet.

Halo can have Loadouts and still remain an Arena Shooter.
However the selectioon of wepaon choices need to be much more limited to what we have in Halo 4.

I am all for Halo 5, evolving from Halo 3.

But it is possible for future Halo games to continue to have loadouts.

To keep Halo an Arena Shooter, and keep the game balanced and provide weapons on maps for players to fight to gain map control.
The Loadout choice of weapons need to much more limited than the current options in Halo 4.

Halo 5 Loadout Weapon choices:
Primary Weapons:
BR
AR
Carbine
Storm Rifle

Secondary Weapons:
Magnum
SMG
Plasma Rifle

All other weapons and grenades spawn on map.

The DMR and LR need to be removed from Loadout Choice. As they have a very long range and should be map pickup only, and by finding these on a map, you have a mini power weapon. Also by removing these weapons from loadout options, it allows for better map movement.

The Boltshot, Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenade all require to be removed from Loadout Choice.

All Forerunner weapons require to be “creme de la crème” of the weapon sandbox. The Scatter Shot and Suppressor are a Joke. These really should be mini power weapons.

Perks need to also be removed, and AA to be map pickup (AA to have limied uses before being discarded, and depending how powerful or weak the AA is, is how many uses it has).

POD can return but only Powerups to be available as choices.

  1. Overshield
  2. Active Camo (No longer AA)
  3. Speed Boost
  4. Damage Boost

These few minor tweaks would return Halo to a classic Arena but still contain the new features from REACH/Halo 4. But are now balanced.

I agree much of what Swift has said. That what is the point of removing covenant weapons from loadout choice, if the weapon is pretty much the same as the UNSC variant. Also people like to have choice. My original 2 choice loadout was very restricted and now agree with Swift that more is better. But we both agree that the loadout choice needs to be much less than that of Halo 4.

Also these should be all available to choose from day one, no unlocking of weapons. This was a very bad idea. I am all for unlocking Armour, but loadout choice should always be an option. As to keep Halo an Arena Shooter, you should always have access to weapon choice. So each game can be the same.

It sucks for those who only start playing Halo 4 now, and are playing BTB, and their start weapons is AR & Magnum. When everyone else has a BR or DMR.

But AA must be map pickups, and not be a loadout choice. AA create to much Randomness if they are a Loadout Choice.

Halo must not have anything that add Randomness at SPAWN.

16

> > > I think it should be removed because that one “feature” is what changed the entire series from an arena shooter to a class based shooter, and I cannot think of a single logical reason why they were added in the first place. Having that followed up by a poor execution made Halo 4 the quickest Halo game I’ve ever shelved.
> >
> > Here’s a few “logical” reasons on why they were added.
> >
> > If you were someone who played the hell out of Halo 3, you’ll remember that it slowly became boring to either spawn with an AR or BR all of the time. While this does allow for much more strategic gameplay, most “casual gamers” (which sadly makes up 90% of gamers) will get bored of playing the same thing over and over again.
> >
> > Like what I said in the OP, I highly prefer the Carbine over the BR. Since all “loadout weapons” are perfectly balanced with each other, why shouldn’t I be able to spawn with my favorite weapon? Why should I be forced to use a Battle Rifle instead of a Carbine despite the fact that they are perfectly balanced with each other?
> >
> > Equal-Starts doesn’t explicitly mean “the same exact thing,” it means that you spawn with something that isn’t better than any other. The Assault Rifle and the Storm Rifle are only good at close range. The Carbine and the Battle Rifle are best at mid-range. The DMR and the LightRifle excel at long range.
> >
> > None of these weapons overpower each other outside of their intended niches, I think that we’re still adhering to equal-starts and balance. Opposing this in any logical way is therefore beyond me…
>
> THANK YOU. 3 did get bland after a while.
>
> Here’s 5: Keep loadouts (balance better), remove personal ordinance (forever), AA’s are map pickup (except sprint), and excellent maps for all this.
>
> Who’s with me here?

Yes, it is possible to have Loadouts and still Keep Halo an Arena Shooter.

Yes it is possible for future Halo games to continue to have loadouts.

To keep Halo an Arena Shooter, and keep the game balanced and provide weapons on maps for players to fight to gain map control.
The Loadout choice of weapons need to much more limited than the current options in Halo 4.

Halo 5 Loadout Weapon choices:
Primary Weapons:
BR
AR
Carbine
Storm Rifle

Secondary Weapons:
Magnum
SMG
Plasma Rifle

All other weapons and grenades spawn on map.

The DMR and LR need to be removed from Loadout Choice. As they have a very long range and should be map pickup only, and by finding these on a map, you have a mini power weapon. Also by removing these weapons from loadout options, it allows for better map movement.

The Boltshot, Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenade all require to be removed from Loadout Choice.

All Forerunner weapons require to be “creme de la crème” of the weapon sandbox. The Scatter Shot and Suppressor are a Joke. These really should be mini power weapons.

Perks need to also be removed, and AA to be pickup or new Equipment (1 use only).

POD can return but only Powerups to be available as choices.

  1. Overshield
  2. Active Camo (No longer AA)
  3. Speed Boost
  4. Damage Boost

These few minor tweaks would return Halo to a classic Arena but still contain the new features from REACH/Halo 4. But are now balanced.

17

>

Not to be rude or anything, but can you please stop copy/pasting the same post? Its really starting to feel like spam or a broken record…

18

IMO they should remove load outs it’s not a even playing field I’m tired of playing ragnarok and some1 has the light rifle or dmr basically mini snipers to start with and having bolt shots or plasma pistols and plasma grenades totally ruined halos vehicle combat

19

They are weapon classes and when I think classes I think cod same with perks they have no business in halo,neither does kill cams and AA’s just go back to 1 time use equipment constant camo Promethean vision and jet pack are just OP how many times have u gotten killed by a camo sniper on complex

20

> IMO they should remove load outs it’s not a even playing field I’m tired of playing ragnarok and some1 has the light rifle or dmr basically mini snipers to start with and having bolt shots or plasma pistols and plasma grenades totally ruined halos vehicle combat

Remove Plasma Pistol/Grenades and the Boltshot and that saves vehicular combat. Remove the Light Rifle from loadouts, while giving the DMR a slower RoF and you make them less likely to pick players off unless they are spending too much time exposed without fighting back (in which case, the DMR user deserves the kill).