Most of this stuff probably can and will be customized for MLG settings. But that just creates a whole other set of problems. You’ll have the same problem we had with Reach: competitive settings are so drastically different from default settings that people outside the community don’t care to play MLG, and people within the community lose interest in the game because we can’t fix everything through customization and the default gameplay is awful. This all leads to less community support, so it’s no surprise Reach did poorly on the Circuit.
In fact, you might even suggest moving further away from core Halo values did more harm than good for Reach. It’s not just in the competitive community that Reach is disliked. Reach hasn’t been on top of the Xbox Live charts in forever; it was even getting beat by Modern Warfare 2 (and Black Ops) until Modern Warfare 3 came out. Halo 3, meanwhile, was always either #1 or #2 on the list. But I digress…
Even if 343 gives us the ability to customize literally everything so we can craft our perfect game (which they won’t), that’s still not good in the long term for Halo on the Circuit. The amount of changes we’d need to make would make the game play essentially like an entirely different title than default Halo 4. We’d only be able to draw from the existing community for support. There wouldn’t be much growth since MLG settings would play so differently from default Halo 4 settings that players who might otherwise enjoy MLG settings will be put off by the fact that they behave nothing like the game they’re used to.
343i makes their game. If MLG decide they can make it competitive enough to warrant inclusion in the circuit, they do; if not, they don’t. Where is the problem?
Also, I find the idea that the rest of the game should move towards MLG ridiculous. Such self-entitlement doesn’t usually go hand in hand with clear-headed logical reasoning.
I don’t see why they can’t make a game that is both competitive and accessible for new players right out of the box. Just look at the success of Halo 2 and 3 compared to Reach. 343 is just moving further and further away from what their longtime fans want.
If Halo 4 is released with all these new things, the “casual” community has to be more understanding if MLG doesn’t use them. Right now, I could see some arguments against MLG drastically changing from the default settings in Reach, but if what we hear is true about Halo 4, you really can’t blame them for removing/changing some of these features for a competitive environment.
I don’t want this game to be created for the purpose of making MLG happy. I want everyone to be happy. That includes casuals.
What I do want, is a social/ranked system like Halo 3 had, where all of stupid crap that 343i may or may not be adding will be in social, and core elements will be in ranked. This makes everyone happy.
> So what?
>
> 343i makes their game. If MLG decide they can make it competitive enough to warrant inclusion in the circuit, they do; if not, they don’t. Where is the problem?
>
> Also, I find the idea that the rest of the game should move towards MLG ridiculous. Such self-entitlement doesn’t usually go hand in hand with clear-headed logical reasoning.
The problem is that MLG is a huge competitive gaming scene that bolsters Halo’s community when the game is fully acceptable by them. Halo 2 and 3 were amazing and MLG literally rose up from nothing because of Halo 2. In the long run, the MLG community grew and people from casuals up to professionals enjoyed playing MLG settings because it was a more “Hardcore” version of Halo. Now in Reach, Halo is barely hanging on the circuit and Reach’s population is much much weaker than in any other Halo at the timespan after release. MLG keeps Halo going by giving it popularity and ever changing settings that people love to participate in. When you take a game off of all competitive circuits, competitive players won’t be very drawn to it and the population will plummet.
And MLG isn’t asking for the game to be made in their favor. It’s asking for the game to be made competitive, i.e. fair and balanced.
> halo4 could be competitive out of the box, we don’t know yet …
Yes we do. Unless 343 makes drastic changes to playlist structure that leaves a lot of their new ‘features’ in the dust, this game will be far from competitive out of the box.
There are a few new features I could see 343i taking advantage of. But they are gonna hate most of it.
For instance Halo 4 doesn’t have Bloom anymore, which is AWESOME. And Halo 4 features a variety of utility weapons, so they can decide to either give players a choice (like they did in early-Reach), or to pick the most skill-reliant one for the circuit.
The deal with Power Weapons was also miss-interpreted. The Spawns are not on random timers, nor do they spawn in random locations. Rather they will always start in the same place, and then there will be 1 or 2 separate spawn areas for the same weapon, and it will spawn IN ORDER in these varying locations. (So instead of nabbing the first rockets, then returning to the same place in 3 minutes, you will actually go to another location on the map, which you can predict with 100% accuracy, and it will spawn THERE in 3 minutes).
This is another thing MLG could take advantage of, to promote some more map movement.
The other features though, Native Sprint? MLG will hate. Armor Abilities returning? They will hate. Press X to respawn? They will also hate. Heck I hate all of these.
I don’t get why they are all pissy about all of this. I hardly doubt any MLG professionals will be playing the standard type of settings anyway. They will be too busy playing the MLG settings where they will be customized to their liking.
I mean come on, they have a hitscan BR, no bloom, no health packs, Im sure bleedthrough will return, they can change the settings to their hearts content with them setting up power weapons to have set spawn timers to them.
> I don’t get why they are all pissy about all of this. I hardly doubt any MLG professionals will be playing the standard type of settings anyway. They will be too busy playing the MLG settings where they will be customized to their liking.
>
> I mean come on, they have a hitscan BR, no bloom, no health packs, Im sure bleedthrough will return, they can change the settings to their hearts content with them setting up power weapons to have set spawn timers to them.
>
> What more could they want?
The problem is that the more Halo deviates from the trilogy style of Halo where everyone starts with the same weapon, no loadouts, etc. the more the competitive gaming scene dies. People won’t want to play in a playlist where everything is completely changed and it feels nothing like the game by default. MLG can’t grow when nobody wants to play it since their shields are different, their movement speed is different, their loadouts aren’t there, the weapons are not where they normally are, etc.
> > I don’t get why they are all pissy about all of this. I hardly doubt any MLG professionals will be playing the standard type of settings anyway. They will be too busy playing the MLG settings where they will be customized to their liking.
> >
> > I mean come on, they have a hitscan BR, no bloom, no health packs, Im sure bleedthrough will return, they can change the settings to their hearts content with them setting up power weapons to have set spawn timers to them.
> >
> > What more could they want?
>
> The problem is that the more Halo deviates from the trilogy style of Halo where everyone starts with the same weapon, no loadouts, etc. the more the competitive gaming scene dies. People won’t want to play in a playlist where everything is completely changed and it feels nothing like the game by default. MLG can’t grow when nobody wants to play it since their shields are different, their movement speed is different, their loadouts aren’t there, the weapons are not where they normally are, etc.
Yeah, and I can equally say that the less MLG is like Customs, the more Customs die, so MLG should have Monster Trucks right?
If you’re saying too much variety is a bad thing (which I disagree with), then why should MLG be the standard everything else bends around? Why not BTB, or Infection, or 343’s standard Team Slayer?
MLG (and everyone else) should be allowed some seriously in depth and complex tools to shape the gameplay and customise gametypes to their own will.
People interested primarily in MLG should be allowed to make their playspace “classic”, if those people determine that to be a better alternative to what the new gametypes and mechanics offer.
I think Vanilla 4 should go into the wild unmolested by MLG’s wants, let the vast majority of players that do not play MLG help shape the rest of the game with similar editing tools to provide alternate solutions, ( if necessary ) and of course feedback.
> Yeah, and I can equally say that the less MLG is like Customs, the more Customs die, so MLG should have Monster Trucks right?
>
> If you’re saying too much variety is a bad thing (which I disagree with), then why should MLG be the standard everything else bends around? Why not BTB, or Infection, or 343’s standard Team Slayer?
Please don’t post anything regarding or related to MLG, your ignorance just makes me want to facedesk…
> > I don’t get why they are all pissy about all of this. I hardly doubt any MLG professionals will be playing the standard type of settings anyway. They will be too busy playing the MLG settings where they will be customized to their liking.
> >
> > I mean come on, they have a hitscan BR, no bloom, no health packs, Im sure bleedthrough will return, they can change the settings to their hearts content with them setting up power weapons to have set spawn timers to them.
> >
> > What more could they want?
>
> The problem is that the more Halo deviates from the trilogy style of Halo where everyone starts with the same weapon, no loadouts, etc. the more the competitive gaming scene dies. People won’t want to play in a playlist where everything is completely changed and it feels nothing like the game by default. MLG can’t grow when nobody wants to play it since their shields are different, their movement speed is different, their loadouts aren’t there, the weapons are not where they normally are, etc.
I understand that but why should 343 get rid of whatever they have been working so hard on just to appeal to the competitive crowd? Shouldn’t everyone have something that they can enjoy for themselves? Even though I play competitively sometimes I know that I wouldn’t want to play MLG settings everytime I go into matchmaking. I actually would want to just sit down and play a match that I would actually enjoy depending on how I feel on that day.
Why can’t people accept that there can be Vanilla Halo 4 playlists and Classic Playlists co-existing for the casual players and the more competitive/classic players?
Oh, MLG. My poor, broken heart goes out to you. Alas! poor Yorick, I knew thee well…
Well enough, that is, to be splitting my sides with laughter over the amount of bruised backsides over this. I’m serious; I just got back from work, and this thread alone has made my goddamned night.
MLG =/= Halo.
Halo =/= MLG.
Halo is the chassis, the engine, the steering wheel… hell, the entire car. In the grand scale of things, MLG is those pathetic fuzzly dice and scented trees people like to hang on their rear view mirror. MLG is the accessory to Halo, and I sincerely doubt that Halo is going to go down the pan just because the try-hards might not get a few little bells and whistles to play with.
but, for the sake of argument: I doubt 343i are going to forget the try-hards (though I sincerely wish they would). Don’t worry, ladles and jellyspoons, there’ll be plenty of opportunity for you to hyperventilate in your own, special, custom-made playlists controlled by the King and Queen of Try.
> > > I don’t get why they are all pissy about all of this. I hardly doubt any MLG professionals will be playing the standard type of settings anyway. They will be too busy playing the MLG settings where they will be customized to their liking.
> > >
> > > I mean come on, they have a hitscan BR, no bloom, no health packs, Im sure bleedthrough will return, they can change the settings to their hearts content with them setting up power weapons to have set spawn timers to them.
> > >
> > > What more could they want?
> >
> > The problem is that the more Halo deviates from the trilogy style of Halo where everyone starts with the same weapon, no loadouts, etc. the more the competitive gaming scene dies. People won’t want to play in a playlist where everything is completely changed and it feels nothing like the game by default. MLG can’t grow when nobody wants to play it since their shields are different, their movement speed is different, their loadouts aren’t there, the weapons are not where they normally are, etc.
>
> Yeah, and I can equally say that the less MLG is like Customs, the more Customs die, so MLG should have Monster Trucks right?
>
> If you’re saying too much variety is a bad thing (which I disagree with), then why should MLG be the standard everything else bends around? Why not BTB, or Infection, or 343’s standard Team Slayer?
I’m saying being too varied is a bad thing. Look at a normal distribution chart. The closer MLG’s settings come to the far left or far right of this normal distribution, the less likely it is going to be touched by the average people sitting in the middle of this distribution. The community won’t grow. Would you become addicted to a playlist in Reach where you started with 25% movement speed, 200% gravity and plasma rifles? I doubt it.