Before you get too upset about the title of this thread, hear me out. This is nothing against Joseph Staten. He was the creative force behind the best days of Halo, and I’m sure that Halo Infinite will benefit from having him on board.
The problem is that this move signals that Halo Infinite’s development is currently resembling a dumpster fire, and bringing in Staten this late smacks of desperation on 343’s part. Look, it’s very late in the development process to be bringing in new creative talent. The creative vision of a game is done early in the development process so that the game can be built around it. When big creative changes have to be made late in a game’s development cycle, that usually means it has major problems.
And it’s very late. Up until two weeks ago, Halo Infinite was still officially scheduled to release in November. The last few sprints of a game’s development cycle are usually just QA/bug fixes. The fact that 343 ordered a big delay just 3 months before the originally-scheduled launch and is bringing in new creative talent tells me that Halo Infinite is a hot mess right now.
Side rant: In product development (both hardware and software), generally the plan is to get a tangible representation of the product in front of the customer as early in the development process as possible so that you can get feedback, because only the customer can tell the developer if they’re on the right track. In gaming, that usually means a gameplay trailer, demo, beta, or something like that. The fact that we didn’t even see a gameplay snippet from Halo Infinite until 4 months from the originally-scheduled launch date and after 5 years of development had already been spent on it boggles the mind.
Add to that the fact that what we saw was poorly received by the fans, and that’s exactly why you shouldn’t invest so much time and effort into something and wait until the last minute to show it to the public: By the time you get any feedback from the customer, it’s either too late or extremely costly to make any meaningful changes. How could 343 have made such a rookie mistake? Okay, rant over.
Thank you. Someone that understands game development! This is not a good thing. This is a very, VERY bad thing. It means the the game probably has bad bones. Joe’s not the guy to bring in to fix lighting and scripting. It means that the core of the campaign is probably bad.
> 2533274800772611;2:
> Thank you. Someone that understands game development! This is not a good thing. This is a very, VERY bad thing. It means the the game probably has bad bones. Joe’s not the guy to bring in to fix lighting and scripting. It means that the core of the campaign is probably bad.
If you want an example of what I’m talking about, look no further than Destiny (Side note: Joe was directly involved with that one as well). Activision ordered major creative changes to the game very late in the development process, and as a result the story/single-player campaign was so bad it spawned memes.
> 2535427298702018;4:
> They need to delay til 2022, give Joe total control over the Campaign and any other aspect he wants to influence and also bring Marty back.
I agree. The announced delay is only until 2021, but there’s only so much you can do with a game this big in a year. If what they need is a soft reboot of the development process, then a delay to 2022 would be in order.
> 2533274802102422;5:
> > 2535427298702018;4:
> > They need to delay til 2022, give Joe total control over the Campaign and any other aspect he wants to influence and also bring Marty back.
>
> I agree. The announced delay is only until 2021, but there’s only so much you can do with a game this big in a year. If what they need is a soft reboot of the development process, then a delay to 2022 would be in order.
It should be 343i’s main focus to do exactly as Joe(and ideally Marty too) says. Give as much time and resources as they need and they can save it and make it a success for Microsoft and the fans.
“Joe, you mind telling me what you’re doing on that dev team?”
Joe is back to oversee multiplayer, not campaign, according to the IGN article and some of the others, suggesting that it is not the campaign that is the issue. Clearly there are problems there in terms of graphics, textures, pop-up, etc. But he’s not the person to fix those
I see your point. I will offer the counter argument. The Devil’s Advocate, if you will.
The games since Bungie’s departure have been mediocre, at best. As this is the case. Halo’s impact from this change is going to be a greater benefit in the long run. Yes, perhaps it may seem like a bad thing right now. However, if the game releases mid year next year, It will only benefit as the story will improve, the game will improve, and the gameplay mechanics will improve. The game may take a while longer to release. But this is a greater benefit already. Most of the Halo Community praised the decision to delay Halo Infinite and now that Joe Staten is returning, we can expect a better, overall Halo. The game may not yet be done, but it may be finished quicker now that Joe is holding the reigns. This could mean we get better quality Halos in less time.
> 2533274813608672;7:
> Joe is back to oversee multiplayer, not campaign, according to the IGN article and some of the others, suggesting that it is not the campaign that is the issue. Clearly there are problems there in terms of graphics, textures, pop-up, etc. But he’s not the person to fix those
> 2535427298702018;9:
> > 2533274813608672;7:
> > Joe is back to oversee multiplayer, not campaign, according to the IGN article and some of the others, suggesting that it is not the campaign that is the issue. Clearly there are problems there in terms of graphics, textures, pop-up, etc. But he’s not the person to fix those
>
> No, he’s Campaign Project Lead.
My apologies - just read that in waypoint! Will correct the previous post. I must have read some speculation…
> 2535432806702036;8:
> I see your point. I will offer the counter argument. The Devil’s Advocate, if you will.
>
> The games since Bungie’s departure have been mediocre, at best. As this is the case. Halo’s impact from this change is going to be a greater benefit in the long run. Yes, perhaps it may seem like a bad thing right now. However, if the game releases mid year next year, It will only benefit as the story will improve, the game will improve, and the gameplay mechanics will improve. The game may take a while longer to release. But this is a greater benefit already. Most of the Halo Community praised the decision to delay Halo Infinite and now that Joe Staten is returning, we can expect a better, overall Halo. The game may not yet be done, but it may be finished quicker now that Joe is holding the reigns. This could mean we get better quality Halos in less time.
I see what you’re saying, and I agree to an extent.
To use an analogy, it’s like a struggling sports team that signs a star player. The new player will make the team better, but can he lead them to a championship? Only time will tell.
In any event, Halo Infinite will benefit from Joe’s involvement. The question is, can he make the whole game a success?
Given the current information, I can’t say that I agree. The official announcement makes it sound like Joe’s been asked back to help bring the existing campaign vision to the home stretch rather that rework the entire thing. This isn’t a Halo 2 “oh, we’re just gonna scrap everything and crunch like crazy for 9 months” scenario. I’d imagine Joe’s biggest impact on Infinite is going to be helping define the direction for the post-launch campaign content.
> 2533274870884222;12:
> Given the current information, I can’t say that I agree. The official announcement makes it sound like Joe’s been asked back to help bring the existing campaign vision to the home stretch rather that rework the entire thing. This isn’t a Halo 2 “oh, we’re just gonna scrap everything and crunch like crazy for 9 months” scenario. I’d imagine Joe’s biggest impact on Infinite is going to be helping define the direction for the post-launch campaign content.
It’s true that we fans can’t know for sure what state the game is in, all we can do is speculate based on the information we have before us. My gut feeling is that lukewarm reception to the gameplay reveal, plus the delay 2021, plus 343 suddenly asking Joe back, means that the game is in trouble. But to be clear, this is just me trying to read the signs. It could very well be that 343 is bringing Joe in to work on future content. We won’t know for sure until it ships, I just hope you’re right and this isn’t a Halo 2 scenario.
I agree. Things in the campaign department must be a lot messier than it seems. Hopefully the delay gives them enough time to get sorted and release a proper game.
I can’t speak for how long of a delay is a good idea, but it would be really cool if the game released November 15 next year, the 20th anniversary of Halo CE.
> 2533274802102422;13:
> > 2533274870884222;12:
> > Given the current information, I can’t say that I agree. The official announcement makes it sound like Joe’s been asked back to help bring the existing campaign vision to the home stretch rather that rework the entire thing. This isn’t a Halo 2 “oh, we’re just gonna scrap everything and crunch like crazy for 9 months” scenario. I’d imagine Joe’s biggest impact on Infinite is going to be helping define the direction for the post-launch campaign content.
>
> It’s true that we fans can’t know for sure what state the game is in, all we can do is speculate based on the information we have before us. My gut feeling is that lukewarm reception to the gameplay reveal, plus the delay 2021, plus 343 suddenly asking Joe back, means that the game is in trouble. But to be clear, this is just me trying to read the signs. It could very well be that 343 is bringing Joe in to work on future content. We won’t know for sure until it ships, I just hope you’re right and this isn’t a Halo 2 scenario.
Oh, I do agree that Infinite indeed appears to be having some development issues…which is sadly par for the course for the series (only Reach and H3/ODST can be considered somewhat smooth releases). Heck even with its absolute nightmare of a dev cycle, Halo 2 ended up being a fantastic game and was, for me personally, the best MP experience that the series had ever offered until Halo 5 came out. But yeah, let’s hope 343 don’t have to go through that kind of hell.
> 2533274802102422;13:
> > 2533274870884222;12:
> > Given the current information, I can’t say that I agree. The official announcement makes it sound like Joe’s been asked back to help bring the existing campaign vision to the home stretch rather that rework the entire thing. This isn’t a Halo 2 “oh, we’re just gonna scrap everything and crunch like crazy for 9 months” scenario. I’d imagine Joe’s biggest impact on Infinite is going to be helping define the direction for the post-launch campaign content.
>
> It’s true that we fans can’t know for sure what state the game is in, all we can do is speculate based on the information we have before us. My gut feeling is that lukewarm reception to the gameplay reveal, plus the delay 2021, plus 343 suddenly asking Joe back, means that the game is in trouble. But to be clear, this is just me trying to read the signs. It could very well be that 343 is bringing Joe in to work on future content. We won’t know for sure until it ships, I just hope you’re right and this isn’t a Halo 2 scenario.
This is true.
They could have brought him on board to simply work on the Terminals and additional side content that leans heavily on the lore.
Staten is the perfect man for that job.
And even if this is a Halo 2 situation…Halo 2 was good.
> 2533274810945725;16:
> > 2533274802102422;13:
> > > 2533274870884222;12:
> > > Given the current information, I can’t say that I agree. The official announcement makes it sound like Joe’s been asked back to help bring the existing campaign vision to the home stretch rather that rework the entire thing. This isn’t a Halo 2 “oh, we’re just gonna scrap everything and crunch like crazy for 9 months” scenario. I’d imagine Joe’s biggest impact on Infinite is going to be helping define the direction for the post-launch campaign content.
> >
> > It’s true that we fans can’t know for sure what state the game is in, all we can do is speculate based on the information we have before us. My gut feeling is that lukewarm reception to the gameplay reveal, plus the delay 2021, plus 343 suddenly asking Joe back, means that the game is in trouble. But to be clear, this is just me trying to read the signs. It could very well be that 343 is bringing Joe in to work on future content. We won’t know for sure until it ships, I just hope you’re right and this isn’t a Halo 2 scenario.
>
> This is true.
> They could have brought him on board to simply work on the Terminals and additional side content that leans heavily on the lore.
> Staten is the perfect man for that job.
>
> And even if this is a Halo 2 situation…Halo 2 was good.
They don’t bring the likes of Joe Staten in as campaign project lead to work on terminals and side content imo.
> 2533274810945725;16:
> > 2533274802102422;13:
> > > 2533274870884222;12:
> > > Given the current information, I can’t say that I agree. The official announcement makes it sound like Joe’s been asked back to help bring the existing campaign vision to the home stretch rather that rework the entire thing. This isn’t a Halo 2 “oh, we’re just gonna scrap everything and crunch like crazy for 9 months” scenario. I’d imagine Joe’s biggest impact on Infinite is going to be helping define the direction for the post-launch campaign content.
> >
> > It’s true that we fans can’t know for sure what state the game is in, all we can do is speculate based on the information we have before us. My gut feeling is that lukewarm reception to the gameplay reveal, plus the delay 2021, plus 343 suddenly asking Joe back, means that the game is in trouble. But to be clear, this is just me trying to read the signs. It could very well be that 343 is bringing Joe in to work on future content. We won’t know for sure until it ships, I just hope you’re right and this isn’t a Halo 2 scenario.
>
> This is true.
> They could have brought him on board to simply work on the Terminals and additional side content that leans heavily on the lore.
> Staten is the perfect man for that job.
>
> And even if this is a Halo 2 situation…Halo 2 was good.
Halo 2 was lucky. An amazing combination of talent and fast prototyping is what helped H2 make it through as a success. Maybe 99/100 other games either get cancelled or are received so terribly the franchise is done.
That was a good rant and I agree with you but I hate your misleading thread title which clearly was intended to gain attention due to its “flame” nature.
I agree, this reeks of desperation and does not bode well for the campaign’s current state. That said, I already suspected this was the case. With a delay to late 2021 and creative control given to Staten, he might be able to work some kind of miracle and make Infinite a worthy product.
He has a year and three months to take the existing product (which is probably almost complete but not very good) and patch it up into a game with a solid story and fun gameplay. It’s not enough time to reinvent the game and change its concept, but it is still almost half of a standard development cycle. They already have most of the assests, levels and game mechanics in a semi-finished state, which means that they can focus the remaining time in giving the game a make-over and perhaps rewriting some of the story/cut-scenes.
The game is definitely in a bad place right now, and that much was clear when they delayed it so close to release after the disappointing demo. But games usually are in a bad state a year before they release, so it’s not all doom and gloom. I personally love Staten, I think he is one if the people who made Halo what it is and almost single-handedly crafted the Halo Universe. There’s no better person out there to steer the campaign out of this asteroid field imo