That this is your takeaway shows you didn’t read what I said, you didn’t understand what I said, or you’re cherry picking pieces of what I said. Nothing I wrote is an endorsement of this, you guys are arguing that 343i doesn’t need to make money this way, I’m asking how.
Which AAA FPS titles have followed the FTP model and failed. Every aspect of gameplay completely free to play, only things that cost money are cosmetics. Which games have failed?
Not exactly the insult you think it is when leveled at someone who has spent exactly $0 on the game in question.
Cause every product in the world ISN’T priced by the provider of that product?
You do you kiddo, vive la resistance! But you’ll make more actual progress by putting together arguments or “demands” that make sense. By all means though, give “we don’t like spending money” a try. Cheers.
The cosmetics are the entire progression system, hence why I stopped playing almost a week ago. The amount of people I’ve seen personally drop the game is pretty telling. The game is also surrounded by bad PR.
Do I know of any FTP FPS that hve failed? No. I also don’t know of any that succeeded outside of BRs, soooooooooo.
But I have seen plenty of games over the years (I know for a fact you have too) that failed almost entirely due to the microtransactions being way to overbearing. I also already explained they can still make money from the game via the pass.
I’ve been playing since CE and after AAAALLLLLLL the YOINK! 343 has done THIS is what pushed me away.
343 has themselves stated that all battle passes will never expire and you can still purchase and work toward them long after their dedicated seasons have ended. People have also theorized that the battle pass’s infinite life span is why 343 made it take so long for players to complete. Anyway, have no fear, the battle pass will never end.
I’d never encourage someone to play a game they don’t like playing, but if you enjoy the gameplay you could literally keep on keeping on without spending a dime. If anything this is a bigger signal flare because it shows interest in the game but lack of participation in cosmetic engagement (whether progression or shop).
While there has definitely been coverage I’d say “surrounded” is a little strong, and a lot of the articles I keep seeing (kotaku, IGN, PC Gamer, etc) are more about the issues surrounding climbing up the pass than the actual FTP/microtransaction aspect of the game. Many of thosw critical articles are also balanced by the two times (in two weeks) they’ve adjusted exo gain. Other negative coverage I’ve seen in the last few days has been dominated by issues surrounding complaints of cheaters.
You’ll never catch me saying this isn’t upsetting to people or even irritating to me personally, but acting like what 343i is doing is against the current market, is holding its player base hostage, or will kill Infinite when every playable aspect of the game is completely free is a lot of hyperbole.
Fair enough. But when you consider that CoD has made obscene amounts of money off of their WZ model (which pretty clearly heavily impacted Infinites FTP approach) is it fair to say that FTP will kill Infinite despite evidence to the contrary?
Absolutely, but the lions share of those have fallen to pieces because the microtransactions are on top of a full purchase price, or based in lootboxes (or both). Those are considerably different from what we see in FTP or microtransaction heavy games that haven’t only survived but been profitable. Infinite has very clearly built on the latter concept, not the former.
Well you stated as much, you didn’t really explain anything. I asked you how that would work, and I’m genuinely curious as to your take on how it would work. I invite you to reread my earlier question and respond.
The mistake that keeps getting made here is people assuming I’m defending what’s going on, when I’m actually poking holes in really poor arguments because I want to see solid feedback rise to the top, not be buried under base griping.
And that’s your prerogative, but respectfully if a lack of cosmetics is preventing you from playing an entire Halo MP game, for free, then you’ve never really enjoyed playing Halo. If you’ve been around from the beginning you’re well aware that all this customization people keep harping on didn’t exist outside of Reach and 4 (5 had a lot of “pieces”, but reduced options to helmet, visor, and armor, locking everything behind lootboxes, hardly worth emulating IMO). If your issue is one or principle then fair enough, but that’s not gonna win over enough people to convince a company to part from a lot of money.
343i can monetize the game in a way that is more player forward. I made a concept for how to better monetize Spartan color customization while keeping the current coating system in place. The thread is called “A Compromise That Works for Everyone” and that’s just one way 343i can do better. People aren’t yelling to have everything free, they justwant monetization to be something we could all agree with. Charge me for NEW things, not old things that cost nothing. Don’t charge $10 for a different shade of red that’s lazy. Charge $10 for a unique pattern and style or unique armor with interesting effects. This is their opportunity to go crazy with creativity, but all I see is unimaginative lazyness. I’d have a field day working on the design team with fun ideas. Unfortunately they’ve decided to take the cheap rout and that’s why everyone is angry. They missed their opportunity to make this the greatest Halo release and turned it into what truely feels like a cash grab with the MP aspect. They bragged about a customization system better than Halo Reach and we can’t even use it. It really hurts big fans man.
To reiterate, it’s not what they’re doing that’s wrong it’s how they’re going about it.
Yours was one of the few posts on the subject that actually offered a realistic and reasonable option for 343i. The bulk of what I’m seeing is “we shouldn’t have to pay for ________” with no actual argument for what could be done differently (outside of everything just being free). Just a bunch of “6 years ago” this and “Halo has always” that, and “its just unethical/immoral”, and unfortunately that type of feedback is drowning out the type you offered.
Unfortunately. It would be nice if people offered constructive alternatives to what they would be willing to pay for. At least it would give 343i some ideas of what would work better for their playere base. Making demands without finding a way to make it mutually beneficial for both parties is not a good way to make progress. It’s like having an argument with someone and expecting them to find a solution for you without you trying to provide one. There’s no foundation to build off of 
Yessir, absolutely correct
Progression and customization have always been a huge part of Halo. Yes Infinite is fun, but with no meaningful progression for your time why not play something else you enjoy that DOES reward you for your time and effort?
I don’t need to win anyone over because people are already tired of this system. I don’t have a perfect system, but if they keep this up the game will lose a crap ton of players. No one wants to play a game where they are told "give us even more money for less content that you were able to get for $60. Yes the game is free and that was a very clever move to try and deflect criticism but me and many others are not having it.
I can’t even put $60 or even $200 to get the bare minimum amount of content from previous instalmets. Sure “6 years” but honestly that makes this even worse as they had soooooo much time.
They can still make money off coatings, emblems, armor effects, or brand new armor. But $20 for a mediocre set of armor? After we were told and promised so much? Hats the customization that would be offered evn for free? That’s not the community “expecting too much” BTW, that’s what we were told.
This was a problem in the Yoroi event too. There is no reason at all for the Heroes of Reach pass to contain Mark VII armor, and other cosmetics that aren’t specifically Reach themed. And there is no excuse for any levels in the Yoroi pass (and upcoming event passes) to contain no cosmetics at all.
It’s okay to have some Reach themed stuff and Yoroi stuff in the shop. But only if every tier of the Battle pass is already full.
Like why is level 100 of the Reach themed pass a flame armor effect, and a wrist attachment for Mark VII?
Who designed this?
Yoroi is even worse. It contains 1 full set of armor in the pass and two sets, plus coatings and shaders in the store totalling up to about 90% of all cosmetics tied to the Yoroi core.
Here’s the first problem, and PLEASE keep in mind this is not an “in defense of FTP” statement, but about accuracy.
The first 3 games, half the franchise, had zero progression mechanics and very limited customization options. Reach was 100% about progression and had an awesome amount of customization. 4 split the difference somewhat by tying unlocks to task/accolades/challenges, but all still earnable in game and it retained a good amount of customization (provided you could complete the requisite criteria). 5 severely limited customization options, and removed progression entirely. RNG/lootboxes are not progression based, you’re not grinding for a “thing” but a chance at said “thing”. Also worth noting that each of these games color options were near useless when you consider that any team based game made you into a solid color not of your choosing. So while it’s fair to say customization and progression has been important to some (and some way more than others), stating that progression and customization have always been a huge part of Halo is factually inaccurate.
Now why is this a problem? You’re using a factually inaccurate statement as a basis for an argument to demand major changes. The argument also ignores that every Halo game compared to Infintie MP cost money, whole Infinite does not. Yes, “no one asked for FTP”, but accuracy is important when making comparisons.
This is the second problem. Even if we ignore everything I outlined above and pretend we’ve always had these things, is progression and customization the ice cream, or the sprinkles? I do not personally know anyone that would play a game they do not enjoy playing simply to unlock stuff, in 33 years of gaming I’ve never met a one. I’m willing to grant they exists, but you need to be willing to accept they’re a sheer minority. Competitive games have always been about one thing: competition. Everything beyond that is gravy. I’m not saying extras aren’t nice and don’t incentive that “one more push” towards one milestone or another, but player bases are not built on superfluous progression, they’re built on entertaining gameplay. I assure you, if people get bored of playing the game free cosmetics won’t fix that for any meaningful number of those people.
The third problem: A few dozen people on a forum don’t equate to jack in this regard. Youre trying to convince a company to walk away from money on the table based on comparisons to older, full priced games. Your numbers would have to be literal legion for this disposition to carry any weight, and while people are definitely voicing negative feedback, many more are just playing with some refusing to buy in until changes are made, or they see something they actually like.
Did you ever feel any compulsion to earn everything simply because its there, or did you want a few specific sets or pieces. This is incredibly subjective, but outside of that aforementioned minority that are there simply to grind, most people want what they think looks nice and then they’re good. An FTP model (potentially) allows for you to achieve that with a buy-in lower than sticker price. So of you “need” everything then yeah you’re looking at an obscene amount or money, but if you just want that one/two sets, you’ve got a AAA MP game with full matchmaking support for $20/$40.
The fourth problem: this solution is way too subjective. What you deem appropriate as chargeable or free may not align with what another may deem appropriate as chargeable or free. The idea itself has legs, but it needs an actual structure.
This is more of a sidenote, but when were we promised we’d get all this for free? I know they harped on customization (and got egg all over their face by launching a sparsely populated battlepass and a limited FOMO inducing storefront) but was us getting it for free a promise or an assumption? For most of us, yourself included based on previous comments, FTP made it abundantly clear what was about to happen, so I don’t see where all these assumptions keep coming from.
For my money, and tempered by the frustrating reality that FTP isn’t going anywhere, here’s how I’d change things:
-Coatings/visors need to be made universal. You buy/unlock a coating or visor, it applies to any and all core types, even coatings and visors obtained in kits. This offers an immediate boost in value for these cosmetics, and encourages sales. Victory for both sides.
-Pass content needs to feature AT LEAST twice as much accessory and cosmetic content as it currently does, both free and premium. The prevalence of boosts and swaps is purely backhanded, and this is easily the most consumer unfriendly aspect of Infinites approach to FTP. CoD WZ does a considerably better job at this and addressing will increase pass participation, customer satisfaction and generate revenue.
-Progression as a whole should not be used to encourage microtransactions. In the current season, even with a janky challenge system, there is more than enough time to hit 100 without spending a dime. In a regular season, the system as it stands is tailor made to encourage microtransactions for swaps/boosts or direct pass progression. This should not be a thing and it turns more people away from the pass than anything else. This is simply a QOL fix, and would immediately benefit both sides.
-The shop needs to be a complete storefront, with all of that seasons content available for immediate and individual purchase. This cuts down on FOMO, and allows people a direct path to get what they actually want for their money. Keep armor bundle sets on a rotating basis at a discount bundle rate, but allowing individual purchases is a must. This is a move that increased Destiny’s microtransactions revenue and made their player base very happy, there is no reason NOT to do this. What 343i loses on $20 bundles, they’ll makeup on multiple $3-$5 part sales by sheer volume. This is something CoD WZ fails at, and Infinte could easily improve on.
To be successful over 10 years they’re going to have to constantly change with the market, but these few things are things that can be employed either immediately or at the launch of season 2 with no real negative impact to 343i and direct increase in consumer value.
You’re never gonna convince a company to walk away from a viable source of money, and sadly the last few years have shown that even in the face of criticism microtransactions make bank, but sometimes you can convince them to be less abrasive on their pursuit of it. That takes honesty, and a hefty dose of perspective.
Yeah their drip feed of actual stuff in the pass and prevalence swaps and boosts, fracture or otherwise, is a far more egregious issue than a microtransaction store.
Same here. Saw a bot the other day wearing My Hazop helmet with a new helmet attachment and it looks dope. Heres hoping that the next battlepass
‘Winter Contingency’ will focus more on the rest of reachs armors.
I wonder if it’ll also include a core or if the Battle Pass will be worthless without purchasing the previous Battle Pass if it does bring more Reach armor.
Here’s hoping it won’t be like the fracture event we’re there was teirs that had only consumables. That was a joke. Fingers crossed man heres hoping…
I agree with you 100%… Some food for thought:
Halo Reach ($60 for campaign + MP/forge, co-op etc.):
21 helmets (now 26 in MCC)
18 Chests
18 shoulders
6 wrists
Infinite ($60 for campaign + $10 battlepass +>$1000 of store purchases):
18 helmets
16 chests
11 shoulders
5 wrists
To have a content complete Halo Infinite costs 17 times as much as Reach despite containing… less content.
It’s almost like the executives that manage policy think we are too stupid to do some basic arithmetic and follow logic. Did they suddenly forget that the majority of Halo fans are probably in their late 20’s or older and hold some sort of degree or level of higher education?
Unfortunately that also means we have money. Which as demonstrated by some of the people commenting in this thread means they’ll try their hardest to justify any greedy decision because of F2P.
(I’m also of the belief that the same people who try to justify it would’ve been too lazy to work for armor so they prefer buying it)