Why is everything asymmetrical?

Games Other Halo
1

Part of what has frustrated many people with the Halo 4 map selection is that most of the maps are asymmetrical. If you look at the playlists that require symmetrical map layouts (CTF, Throwdown, etc.), you’ll notice that many of the maps are not symmetrical.

Why? What is the purpose?

Solace: A map that has appeared in the competitive scene since Day 1, but the bases are different from each other, causing one side to have an advantage. This map would have been so easy to make symmetrical, but 343i chose not to.

Complex: A map that has featured in CTF and other objective gamemodes since launch, yet it is probably the most unbalanced map in the game for small-sided matches. Why does a Rocket Launcher spawn right next to the red Flag, while Blue gets nothing?

Longbow: It is much easier to control the Charlie base in Dominion, as players have to run towards the ledge in bottom mid. There’s no reason why this was made the way it was.

New map Daybreak: Again, could have easily been a symmetrical BTB map, but they chose to switch it up. One base has a man-cannon that shoots to Top Mid (which was described as a very important location to hold), while the other base has to walk up a ramp to get there. How is that fair? Why would you do this?

These are four examples of why asymmetry 1) doesn’t make sense, and 2) kills gameplay.

When will we see some solid symmetrical maps? Majestic was a step in the right direction, but 3 new BTB asymmetrical maps coming in the Castle Map Pack is two steps backwards.

Thoughts?

When will we see BTB maps like Standoff, Rats Nest, and Sandbox? Where both teams have equal opportunity to get anywhere on the map?

2

It is a bit strange and I can’t think of a reason why, though I’m sure someone will come up with a reason why asymmetrical maps are good and symmetrical maps are bad (not that their reasons will make any sense).

I think Halo just needs a good balance of both types, too many large/asymmetrical maps is one of the most common complaints that fans have about Halo 4 so I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a more balanced variety of maps by the time the next game comes along.

3

Two words. Certain Affinity. I haven’t liked their maps since the Blastacular Map Pack in Halo 2.

4

Asymmetric maps should only be good for 1-side versions of objectives. If they have those gametypes available, it wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Weapon placement is another story.

5

> When will we see BTB maps like Standoff, Rats Nest, and Sandbox? Where both teams have equal opportunity to get anywhere on the map?

I would not consider standoff totally symmetrical…

6

I completely agree. This wouldn’t be a problem if there was one flag. I don’t mind asymmetrical maps when paired with one flag. Hell, one of my favorite experiences in Halo 3 was one flag on High Ground. But 343 has their vision for Halo 4, which apparently involves inexplicably removing random features and options all over the place. It makes no sense at all.

7

When done right, asymmetric maps can be good, but it’s much harder to balance an asymmetric map than it is to balance a symmetric map. On single objective games it can work really well, but as you’ve already pointed out, there are no single objectives gametypes in Halo 4.

8

I don’t think it’s a huge deal, although CTF on complex is awful.

The issue with Solace I don’t notice because everyone has the ability to use jet packs anyway. Although I do understand where you’re coming from.

Maybe it’s for variety? I couldn’t tell you. There are very few symmetrical maps in Halo 4.

Haven (for the most part)
Solace (for the most part)
Monolith
Skyline
Meltdown (I think)
Adrift
Ragnarok (for the most part)

Now that I think of it though, almost every map in Halo has been a little asymmetric.

A majority of the Halo 3 maps were asymmetrical too (except for Narrows and The Pit), so it isn’t just Halo 4. They always have been, it’s just more noticeable because it affects gameplay more in H4.

9

The bases are largely the same on solace, the only difference is one base has slightly elevated halls on the inside. I would hardly call that a true advantage.

10

> The bases are largely the same on solace, the only difference is one base has slightly elevated halls on the inside. I would hardly call that a true advantage.

I think he’s referring to the jump you can do to get up onto the base on one side, which is impossible on the other. That still isn’t a big deal though either (to me).

11

Asymmetrical maps are only a problem when the gametype is blatantly unsuited to the map, like CTF on Complex. All the maps on Halo 3 were great yet very very few were symmetrical.

In other words, it’s not about symmetry, its about tailoring the maps to the gametype or vice versa.

12

Its all about the flow of the map. An asymmetrical map offer the opportunity to move the flow around the map in more exciting ways. Well that’s the idea.

Problem is that they disrupt it by giving advantages to different teams in different game modes. Case and point complex ctf. 1 team being able to control the entire map by controlling 1/4, which is easily defended, is bound to make for some rage by the community.

13

> Asymmetrical maps are only a problem when the gametype is blatantly unsuited to the map, like CTF on Complex. All the maps on Halo 3 were great yet very very few were symmetrical.
>
> In other words, it’s not about symmetry, its about tailoring the maps to the gametype or vice versa.

Exactly and Indeed.

Asymmetrical maps also work well for FFA and FFA objective, KOH and Oddball, as well as symmetrical maps. That being said, many of the maps in H4 seem to be designed with only FFA in mind or have been shoehorned into Team Slayer and Objective play to round out map selection(s).

I purely despise CTF on Complex. CTF, Oddball, KOH… er… any objective type on Abandon as well.

14

Actually Longbow, Ragnarok, Meltdown, Vortex, Haven, Adrift, Solace, and Harvest are all symmetrical in layout, just slightly different through out their artwork. Solace also has some differences in their pathing behind the bases. That accounts for over half the maps.

Abandon, Complex, Exile (perhaps), and Shatter are asymmetrical.

Of the 3 latest DLC maps, only Landfall is asymmetrical; Monolith and Skyline are fully symmetrical.

When building maps, true asymmetrical maps like Complex are more difficult to balance for game play. Complex is an example of where 2 flag just isn’t good, but one flag would work well. It is odd that they did not include one flag, a very favored game, that would work very well on some of their CTF playlist maps. Of course, we do not know why this was decided.

When it comes to creating perfectly symmetrical maps like Haven, you got to realize that one problem that the designers may encounter is one of realism. Solace and Ragnarok are more believable and thus more immersing due to the minor differences in appearance and any minor pathing differences so that it can fit within the larger picture, the backdrop of the canvas.

More importantly, those differences provide visual cues for orientation, to distinguish one end of the map from the other. In a purely symmetrical map you would need something like colored lights in Monolith. Haven is an example of very subtle cues to identify where you are at, because everywhere it is all silver.

15

> Asymmetrical maps are only a problem when the gametype is blatantly unsuited to the map, like CTF on Complex. All the maps on Halo 3 were great yet very very few were symmetrical.
>
> In other words, it’s not about symmetry, its about tailoring the maps to the gametype or vice versa.

I completely agree, which is why I used Complex as an example. We have gametypes like Dominion and CTF that are being played on asymmetrical maps, and it doesn’t work. Alpha on Exile is the easiest thing to hold, and CTF on Abandon, Complex, etc. does NOT work.

I hope you don’t misread my OP…I have always loved asymmetrical maps, just as much as symmetrical ones. My favorite maps in Halo are Guardian, Lockout, and others similar to them.

The issue is that they are intentionally making these maps asymmetrical now. I used Daybreak as an example: One side gets a man-cannon while the other doesn’t. If there are power positions or power weapons in a specific location, that location should be accessible to both teams in a largely-symmetrical gametype (like Slayer, CTF, etc.).

If I am playing Slayer on Daybreak, and Rockets spawn top mid, I’m hoping that I get the good base with the man-cannon so I can secure it more quickly.

Daybreak is an excellent example of why asymmetrical maps aren’t only issues with symmetrical gametypes. The fact that it will be used in CTF games frustrates me.

I highly doubt we’ll ever see 1-Flag CTF, since 343i has remained silent on the issue, and I’ve made and written in many threads discussing it and the other snubbed gametypes.

Side note: I would not call Vortex symmetrical in any sense of the word.

16

I really don’t care about symmetry, I care about both sides being even, which in Halo 4’s case it isnt. At all. Pretty much every nonsymmetrical map has a clear advantage on one side, even if it just being able to take the high ground first. Taking the highground could cost the other team a good 5 points, which is huge.

17

Certain Affinity just sucks at making maps, period.

18

The Blue team get a Sniper on Complex, FYI

19

> I really don’t care about symmetry, I care about both sides being even, which in Halo 4’s case it isnt. At all. Pretty much every nonsymmetrical map has a clear advantage on one side, even if it just being able to take the high ground first. Taking the highground could cost the other team a good 5 points, which is huge.

I think this is partly what my issue is.

There hasn’t been any balance at all in Halo 4. None, whatsoever. Almost every map has issues due to balance, and this wasn’t seen in games like Halo 3.

20

Balance is much easier to feign with multiple asymmetrical aspects.

Don’t know how to balance weapon starts and freshen the game at the same time? Try our all new “asymmetrical spawns.” Everything will be so blurred and unclear that no one will feel the imbalance or even know if there’s an imbalance present!

The same concept applies to maps, gametypes, and pretty much anything you can think of. It’s derived from laziness, lack of experience, and overall lack of competence.