I mean yeah she “illegally” cloned and kidnapped children, so theres that. But wasnt that an entire ONI operation was it not? And if wasnt for the Spartans, there would be no humanity to coplain. Whats the deal?
Everybody has their own sets of morals and lines they will and will not cross. Some truly believe what she did is bad and others are just riding the hate train while hoping they are never held accountable for their hands in Halsey’s programs. And when everybody is foaming at the mouth to decry her as worse than -Yoink!-, I feel most wouldn’t speak up to defend her actions. Those people are cowards who have no problem benefiting from the work of Halsey though.
Very well said. But just to clarify, was this the sole reason she is being vilified? They are treating her like a war criminal for creating heroes that saved humanity for christs sake!
She is a war criminal, the things she did were highly illegal and unethical. Of course the problem is that nobody really thinks how she got into the position to do what she did. So while folks like Vaz may fantasize about capping old lady Halsey, he never really gives a second thought about capping old lady Parangosky, the one who had committed far more war crimes than Halsey ever did and approved of the Spartan programs as a whole.
> 2655247280316496;3:
> Very well said. But just to clarify, was this the sole reason she is being vilified? They are treating her like a war criminal for creating heroes that saved humanity for christs sake!
Officially, she’s in trouble for tricking several Spartans into abandoning the war. Though she has indeed been made the face of the Spartan program, and is thus getting all the hate for her work.
Oddly, Parangosky’s grudge toward Halsey seems to originate from the fact that Halsey lied about the cloning. That makes no sense to me at all. I want 343 to retcon that whole interrogation chapter.
I still wouldn’t say Halsey is a “villain” she has just made the transformation into a morally grey character, as awkward as it is.
How can anyone hate Halsey. Deep down she is an amazing person who has been deeply mistaken for he actions in the Spartan program. She loved John like a son and felt a deep connection with all her Spartans. She knew it had to be done.
> 2533274833768212;7:
> How can anyone hate Halsey. Deep down she is an amazing person who has been deeply mistaken for he actions in the Spartan program. She loved John like a son and felt a deep connection with all her Spartans. She knew it had to be done.
For some people, there are no shades of grey. Fighting dirty to achieve a victory is not a victory, as you’ve compromised your moral / ethical position. Whereas spy agencies in general, and Halsey in particular, live in the grey land. They are dirty tricks refined, purified, and taken to a whole new level.
Halsey’s Journal puts her position quite clearly - without intervention, millions to billions of people will be killed / casualties of the upcoming civil war (remembering that when the S-II program started, it was all about limiting the insurrection). However, the intervention required doing some very bad things - kidnapping children, conscripting them to the military, experimental medical procedures among other issues. Halsey reflects that she doesn’t want to perform these actions on these kids, but she has the power to stop billions from suffering, and balances that against the immediate harm she is doing.
ONI appears to be retconning the history, as Parangosky (et al) knew of the cloning as early as 2531 (reference Ghosts of Onyx, I think the first chapter where the S-III program is approved). Similarly, ONI in general would have to have known about the cloning at the time of the kidnapping. My reasoning is simple - how else does a relatively junior civilian employee in ONI get the power and resources to organise the near simultaneous kidnapping and substitution of 70 odd kids, across 17 planets, without someone up the chain noticing? The resource levels required to achieve this would be huge. Halsey would have to have been the single most capable person in all of history to have pulled that stunt off and kept the rest of ONI in the dark.
I suspect ONI is attempting to wash their hands of the less ideal aspects of the S-II program, and place all the blame on Halsey (scapegoating!) so that they can secure their place in history. What happens when the S-III program becomes public is another matter . . .
I have no issue with cloning / kidnapping kids. I have no issue with the morals behind the Spartan program. ONI is epic. I love em.
My issue with Halsey is that she turned on ONI. For that, she has to die. Nobody betrays ONI and gets away with it.
> 2533274800842897;9:
> I have no issue with cloning / kidnapping kids. I have no issue with the morals behind the Spartan program. ONI is epic. I love em.
>
> My issue with Halsey is that she turned on ONI. For that, she has to die. Nobody betrays ONI and gets away with it.
As though ONI have never betrayed their allies before…
Seems like a game of cat and mouse, to me. They’re both betraying each other. Halsey betrayed Hood more specifically, because he authorised her to take the Spartans wherever she needed to go, and she attempted to flee with them, when they were in dire need. ONI betrayed Halsey by pinning the entire Spartan Project on her.
In terms of justification, i’d say Halsey has a lot more of it than ONI does. Its fine if you want to kill Halsey, but kill Parangosky, first.
Many people are just going by what they’ve heard, which is that she kidnapped and experimented on kids. The details aren’t known by them and this is really all they have to go on.
I’m not against her and many others aren’t .
And I’m not against ONI. But I’m against Osman and parangonsky.
It’s legit to have different opinions on halsey, but everybody should be against those two -Yoinks!-.
I don’t have much against her.
But kidnapping children, no that I can’t accept no matter what the purpose was for.
> 2533274881534340;12:
> I’m not against her and many others aren’t .
> And I’m not against ONI. But I’m against Osman and parangonsky.
> It’s legit to have different opinions on halsey, but everybody should be against those two -Yoinks!-.
Well that does appear to be the point, Osman was approaching cat-stroking villainy in Spartan Ops.
As for the OP I wouldn’t say everyone is against her. You got Kilo-V, a group of people specifically conditioned by Parangosky to hate her, and then you got Palmer, a Spartan IV who has only ever been told one thing about her. Propaganda is mighty hard to overcome when you’re not even aware of another side. For what it’s worth though, you also have Thorne who wants to hear her side of the tale, and you also have Lasky, who seems cautious around her but doesn’t really seem to hate her. So not everyone is against her, the problem is the people in a position to tell everyone else what to think are.
But on the whole as well they can’t be blamed. She did do pretty messed up things, and there was something in the Reach Datapads about her being chemically imbalanced, hence her ability to forego morals. And by Spartan Ops, how can anyone think to trust her after (apparent) treason? People have very clear reasons for hating her. Perhaps they’re misguided reasons, we know that as the audience, but they don’t have the privilege of being in her head and knowing what she thinks from her POV as we do.
A personally don’t have a problem with her, though I understand the hate she gathers against her character.
I personally am against Para/Osman like most others here.
> 2533274800842897;9:
> I have no issue with cloning / kidnapping kids. I have no issue with the morals behind the Spartan program. ONI is epic. I love em.
>
> My issue with Halsey is that she turned on ONI. For that, she has to die. Nobody betrays ONI and gets away with it.
Parangosky and Osman are not ONI. Halsey has happily worked in ONI for years, gaining success, reaching higher positions and getting progressively more resources, all this while Parangosky hated her.
Everything changed when Reach fell and Section Three was erased, lost many members, facilities and resources. Halsey’s supporters inside and outside ONI died. And at this point Parangosky had complete power on her, as only alive person who likes Halsey is Hood, that doesn’t seem willing of going against CINCONI. And there is also the fact that nearly everyone thinks she is dead.
Parangosky and Osman are incompetent and idiot. Perhaps Parangosky represents an enormous plot hole, or has real evil plans. Let’s make some examples:
RED FLAG: Stanforth (clever guy, ONI sec 3, supported Halsey btw) told Parangosky that when she would lower Reach defences to allow the Pillar to reach a covenant flagship so that the S-II could take it, she had to explain the plan to Keyes, or he would screw Red Flag and go defending Reach. Parangosky didn’t. Keyes forgot about red flag and helped defending the planet, so they lowed the defences for nothing, and this caused useless death. Why did she do so? Or because she is incompetent, or because she is evil and wanted reach to fall and the spartans to fall with it, as her friend Ackerson.
KILO-V: Parangosky doesn’t want to use biochemical weapons on Sanghelios because she wants to colonise it. Evil plan or simply she is idiot.
KILO-V: Osman has done all the civil war thing with high incompetence, the operation’s biggest result is the enemy jul 'Mdama, that is a big big problem for humanity.
Halsey didn’t betray ONI; Section Three supported her. She was just against Parangosky and Osman, not all the organisation.
And those two are not ONI, ONI is much more. You can like ONI while hating those two.
I, like you, have no (big) problems with kidnapping or cloning few children to save mankind, and am not against what ONI usually does, except anything ordered directly by Parangosky and Osman, that is madness, evilness, plot hole or incompetence, as explained above.
It’s not really that Halsey did anything more unethical than her colleagues, but she stepped out of line and Parangosky needed a scapegoat and an example.
I wouldn’t say EVERYONE is against Halsey. Before the Kilo-Five Trilogy the only characters that we were exposed to were those that had worked closely with Halsey or her Spartans. All of which had positive opinions of her. Now we have just been introduced to more characters in the universe that weren’t near or part of the things she had done. It’s no doubt that the things she did were controversial, so it should be expected that the people will have different and drastic views and opinions on her.
> 2533274926135015;6:
> I still wouldn’t say Halsey is a “villain” she has just made the transformation into a morally grey character, as awkward as it is.
Implying Halsey wasn’t a morally grey character before?
Does the excuse of “they don’t know the full story” really work for the people who hate Halsey? That didn’t stop Thorne from bothering to get to know the full picture or as best he could. People like Vaz and Mal are just immoral psychotics, Palmer has her inferiority complex and Osman has just been conditioned to hate Halsey for abandoning her when we know that is a crook of -Yoink-. The only thing stopping them is to ask questions, but its easier to just want to kill someone than do that.
Who are the Nazis again?