Original post. Click at your own discretion.
no it just means ur just crying when this “bloom” is actually a spray pattern but aiight. Just keep complaining please.
They might have it disabled in comp or in certain playlists, we never know what they might do.
In what dimension has Halo ever been a realistic shooter? If you want realism, go play Tarkov.
Sure, bloom encourages trigger discipline. But you know what? Spray patterns also encourage trigger discipline without rng. I don’t even know how this is a discussion.
Your logic here is flawed.
Lets do a thought experiment
Remove Bloom:
- Your weapon is accurate to perfection.
- Spread does not work for single shot weapons.
- This enables guns to be used at ranges significantly higher than their intended use.
- ROF is now the deciding factor on weapon strength. (Unless damage drop off is used)
- Close range or long range is irrelevant. Maximum Rate of fire of the weapon is required at all times.
- Every player who has perfect Aim wins fights based on who shot first.
Keep Bloom:
- The weapon is only accurate based on the weapons accuracy when held unsteadily (Like in real life - but thats only an added bonus not a requirement)
- Long range engagements requires MORE time to Land shots per-shot.
- Spamming (The argument used to say is more viable than accurate shooting) is NO LONGER MORE VIABLE Depending on the range of the engagement. E.G. Bloom at long range removes the accuracy of the shot, at longer range small deviations in accuracy Add up multiplicatively sending shots MUCH further off course than within a set range.
- Close range engagements Favour Spamming, due to bloom being negligible at close range. Allowing players to make more nuanced decision making (Without bloom Spamming is your ONLY choice As again Rate of Fire is the deciding factor in victory) However WITH bloom in close range, Judgement on When to maximise rate of fire and when to SLOW down rate of fire becomes parmount.
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Well I’m aware there’s a pattern, yeah. Having it be completely random is technically impossible as far as programming is concerned, though they could make it effectively random if they wanted. Anyways my point was more that aiming should be less easily predictable and straightforward if you choose to use a weapon for an unintended purpose.
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If only there were other ways to balance a weapon other then randomness.
there are: RRR, aim assist values and projectile speed
No it’s not. You still have ease of use and damage per shot
And this is bad why? If a player has perfect aim, he should win, especially if he shots first…
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Don’t forget reticle design. The more difficult it is for the player to pinpoint the exact center of the reticle, the more difficult it is for them to place that center on a target.
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If only there were other ways to balance a weapon other then randomness.
there are: RRR, aim assist values and projectile speed
Aim assist in a Shooting game is more controversial than bloom.
Projectile speed is already a factor, but even more controversial to the Halo sandbox as Projectile speed would have to vary A LOT to make difference between weapons of the same “type”.
There is No Red Reticle on PC, so you’re suggesting more magnetism, this is another cop-out which is more problematic than Bloom. Bloom is literally shooting slightly slower instead of spamming at set ranges.
No it’s not. You still have ease of use and damage per shot
Ease of use in a perfect aim game? You’re being silly. We can’t consider every persons ability with a weapon without appropriate data. “Ease of use” is a metric that only data can provide.
Damage per shot being adjusted is ANOTHER, strictly Non-halo metric you’re introducing just to say you don’t like bloom. 4 shots with the BR is 4 shots with the BR. Changing the damage at set ranges to prevent weapon spamming is just asking for more trouble. And it’s decidedly worse than Bloom.
And this is bad why? If a player has perfect aim, he should win, especially if he shots first…
Except Perfect aim in both scenarios would result in the same thing. Except WITHOUT BLOOM there is No judgement in when/why you would pull the trigger. Which is removing a gameplay element Halo has always had. Effectively dumbing down the experience. LIKE I SAID, Max Rate of Fire would be the only VIABLE choice without bloom.
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Not to sound like an -Yoink!- but are you new to the series? Aim assist systems have been part of the franchise/console games since it’s beginning with varying strenght. And 343 just announced they would increase the values in order to compensate for their flawed aim.
And HCE and H3 both had somewhat slow moving projectiles on their utility weapons, it’s nothing new really. (Utility weapons refers to a semi automatic weapon that was used as your main “workhorse” weapon)
I think you didn’t understand. I’m not talking about different damage per shot within one weapon but among different weapons. But maybe I misunderstood your initial point.
Also by “ease of use” I’m referring mainly to various aim assist systems (by that I mean the combination of sticky reticle, bullet magnetism and so on)
Bloom still allows for lucky kills even if you don’t pace your shots. Halo didn’t have bloom outside of Reach and it was met with heavy criticism back then, I’m not sure why you would think that this has always been part of Halos gameplay
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How is it controversial when one thing Halo is known for are its extra-slow projectile Covenant weapons? We already have a lot of variance in projectile speeds. The Halo Reach Sniper Rifle projectile is over 500 times faster than the Needler projectile in that game. The Halo 3 BR projectile, known for its need to lead shots, is still 30 times faster than the Halo 3 Needler projectile. There is plenty of room there to design projectiles that seem instant at close range, but are basically impossible to use at long range.
The idea that you somehow can’t have different projectile speeds for weapons of the “same” type is a limitation of not thinking outside to box, not a design limitation. On the contrary, a Halo game making full use of the range of possible projectile speeds would be immensely more interesting than all these copies of a generic precision weapon with varying levels of bloom.
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Not to sound like an -Yoink!- but are you new to the series? Aim assist systems have been part of the franchise/console games since it’s beginning with varying strenght. And 343 just announced they would increase the values in order to compensate for their flawed aim.
Not new. And I understand why what I said may make you think that. You don’t sound like an -Yoink!-
However there’s a good reason I say it. Halo coming to PC exclusively has a new audience to account for, and to be successful has to bridge the gap, which is decidedly more difficult than continuing what they were already doing. Halo’s Core Fan base is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than most new shooters.
And HCE and H3 both had somewhat slow moving projectiles on their utility weapons, it’s nothing new really. (Utility weapons refers to a semi automatic weapon that was used as your main “workhorse” weapon)
Not sure where my H3 service record went, but I played every Halo. I’m aware of the projectile speeds involved. HOWEVER H3 also had a massive weapon balance problem where most weapons were completely unviable outside of Dual wielding or specific combos. They allowed for a lot of CHOICE but a lot of those choices were either entirely redundant or absolutely terrible. (Dual Human weapons or Dual Covenant for example).
I think you didn’t understand. I’m not talking about different damage per shot within one weapon but among different weapons. But maybe I misunderstood your initial point.
Also by “ease of use” I’m referring mainly to various aim assist systems (by that I mean the combination of sticky reticule, bullet magnetism and so on)
I do understand, but a lot of people are thinking strictly from the console perspective.
E.G. Why would Aim assist help an M&Kb Player? It wouldn’t, and if it DID it would disrupt the Norm of what M&K is. How would you release a Game to a larger audience who ISNT on Xbox? Well it’s definitely not through Adding bullet magnetism or Red reticle range (Which is also magnetism) This is a rock and a hard place discussion so it will take a lot more nuance.
Bloom still allows for lucky kills even if you don’t pace your shots. Halo didn’t have bloom outside of Reach and it was met with heavy criticism back then, I’m not sure why you would think that this has always been part of Halos gameplay
Lucky kills is intrinsic to any shooter. You’re making a point out of something that literally is going to be present in either setting.
Also Halo did Have bloom outside of reach. And that isn’t me making stuff it. it 100% did. Mod tools even expose that the bloom was there.
Edit: How are you quoting me directly?
It’s the leftmost button in the top row on the text box, shaped like a speech bubble, when you’re replying.
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Sure but you can’t just ignore 20 years of history just to maybe appeal to some new fans. The game has to be fun for Xbox players as well. And I think we’re at a point where we don’t need massive aim assist systems but we still need them to some degree, especially with mixed input lobbies.
I think this is a somewhat common misconception out of the 18 weapons H3 had, 11 were useful and worth picking up if you plan on using them according to their niche (BR, shotty, snipe, rockets, Splaser, PP, Mauler, CC, Beamrifle, sword and hammer) an additional two are somewhat in the middle (AR, bruteshot) and just 5 were “useless” (Pistol, SMG, PR, Spiker, Needler) but even those were fun enough to use in social some times.
I think the problem was that maps had quite a lot of those “useless” weapons with relativly few of the usefull, so people got a wrong impression of the sandbox. I’m not saying it’s perfect but it’s much better then many people claim.
As you said: it wouldn’t. But aren’t aim assist systems the consoles way to mitigating the precision advantage M&Kb has? So do M&Kb players need help at all? For them, those weapons would be “self balancing”. If you’re good enough to hit someone very far away, you should be allowed to do so.
Maybe, but not to the same degree. It’s not just that the spammer has a good chance of winning because of luck, if two players meet on equal grounds. You can also have situations where not aiming at you target could still get you a lucky kill (unlikly but still…)
Do you have any source for that? I know som Halo games had spread (which is bad as well) but AFAIK only Reach had bloom
select whatever part you want to quote and you will get a little pop-up, works on mobile and PC.
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The Game IS Fun for Xbox players.
There is already a degree of Aim Assists.
I preferred the Halo 2 sandbox, but there is actually 19 weapons excluding the turrets and more than 19 weapon combinations in Halo 3.
SMG + Pistol . BAD
Plasma Rifle + Plasma Rifle. Bad
Smg + SMG. Bad (better than AR)
Needler +Needler? Bad (Unless you actually connect the hits. But it had a sweet spot u could avoid the shots)
Plasma Pistol + Plasma Pistol. BAD
Mauler + Mauler = Good (But only because it was the same as 1 shotgun)
Dual Wielding was mostly just BAD. This was an entire system that resulted in mostly useless or redundant combinations.
The reason I bring this up is because there is already a big difference between M&K and Controller. Without bloom this difference will actually favour Controller by a long shot, UNLESS players know the pacing of the weapon, then the weapon pacing would make a big different in success. Bloom isn’t as RNG as its being made out to be. Or every other Game in history with bloom wouldn’t have reliable ranks or competitiveness (Which they do).
There is almost no situation where not aiming at the player will result in a kill unless said player walks into the weapons reticule or area of effect. That being said, Spamming the weapon with or without bloom has the same result, except in 1 system there is weapon spam (shooting) CONSTANTLY and there is one where pace is important. (A lot of deaths due to bloom is simply from the player utilising the weapon at ineffective or unintended ranges and at a pace not intended for the weapon. If the weapon did not suffer from bloom the player would win that engagement every time. However that also means weapons like the sidekick would be FAR more effective in situations other weapons are SUPPOSED to be effective.
If you have an enemy at certain ranges you should be more reliant on the weapon effective at that range, not have perfect accuracy to target with whatever weapon you have. And if the situation is undesirable then you will have to slow your pacing or change tactics to make the weapon you have actually work. Without bloom there is NO tactic change. NONE.
There’s another post in this forum about it. In fact… I think it’s the 6th reply in this thread.
This is a case of I am required to post more evidence to refute your claim vs you proving your claim. Really not wanting to do that. So I’ll put a few examples:
Assault rifle (All games) Had bloom. The first set of shots were always more accurate than holding it down.
Plasma Rifle (Halo 3 onwards) had bloom. The first few shots were straight and then began fanning out.
Halo 3 Sniper rifle had a hip-fire inaccuracy vs Scoped (Small enough to still be useful at close range but not good at range)
BR didn’t have BLOOM but it had A LOT of RNG (2nd and third bullet were unreliable. Especially that third bullet) Which was a huge reason I hated the META of Halo 3. BR or Bust.
In fact, that is a major reason the sand box in Halo 3 IMO suffered. The clear winners of the Sandbox were the power weapons, everything else was very luck-based and horribly inaccurate. Sniper/Shotty/BR or Noob Combo. That’s what worked.
There is an argument to be had there if that is what should be the case, but More viable weapons and more skill checks to use them Is better than the opposite. No bloom will result in the same problem as the past.
Thanks, much appreciated.
There seems to be two different conversations on this topic bullet bloom versus gun recoil. I think all automatic weapons should have recoil which will create a natural bullet bloom. As far as RnG bloom on like a battle rifle that is crazy. Marksman weapons should be accurate. However they had it set during the flights was great donʻt change a thing.
I have nothing to add to this, I just wanted to voice my approval and agreement.
Incidentally, anyone like the visual effect called bloom? I like it.
No i take it back the bloom is dreadful I apologise
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Weapon spread is not the same as bloom, educate yourself on the topic before saying things like this
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I barely notice the bloom in infinite not as bad as reach
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Ah yes in this game where im a super soldier that can lift an entire ton, flip cars and punch through cement, i cannot control the recoil and spray of my pistol that fires the equivalent of a 9mm
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