Why is bloom still here?

Games Halo Infinite
81

Considering that bloom is on the commando, and sidekick (but not the BR), which are the two precision weapons that are suppose to be medium and close range weapons. It makes sense for bloom to be on them.

If you just gave the sidekick a big static spread then it would be like the h3 magnum, which no one liked. Essentially a 100% RNG gun past a certain distance. Bloom lets you use the pistol at a longer range without having it be super RNG but also without it competing with the BR.

The commando has heavy bloom on the auto fire but little bloom on tap fire, so you can use the auto fire up close but have to tap at long range

You are saying precision weapons aren’t suppose to be close quarters weapons but that’s exactly what the sidekick and full auto commando are suppose to be, weapons that you only use at short ranges.

Making the pistol or commando have slower projectiles (technically all weapons in halo are already projectile weapons, just some are fast enough projectiles to act like hitscan) would be wildly unpopular and not be consistent with other weapons

Magnetism and auto-aim already turn off outside of RRR, turning off headshots too wouldn’t be too big of a stretch, but I understand that that’s likely not what people would want. Though I wonder if you had to choose between bloom and headshots only in RRR which you would choose.

82

The easiest way to cap a weapons effectiveness at range while introducing literally no RNG is to slow down projectile travel time, add bullet drop, and in the case of automatic/semi-automatic weapons, add a (predictable) spray pattern. Preferably, combination of the above.

In 2021 there is NO reason to use bloom at a tool to cap a weapons effectiveness at range. The technical limitations aren’t what they used to be, and these methods of weapon balance are tried and true across countless games.

Out of all the ways to cap a weapons effectiveness at range, 343 picked literally the worst and added it to their sandbox. Very disappointing.

2 Likes
83

Bloom works great to cap the AR’s effectiveness at range, the difference is that when you put it on a precision weapon it can become much more swingy.

Human weapons in halo in the majority have never used significant bullet drop or slow projectiles. You would essentially be doing what all these fans say they hate and making it “not halo”

Recoil patterns just make it so that pros or hackers can use the weapons at unintended ranges without any issue but no one else can.
Those kind of changes make it so weapons have a binary work-at-this-range or don’t-work-at-this-range. Spread and bloom make it so that weapons gradually reduce in effectiveness and TTK as the range increases.

343 didn’t add this to the sandbox, it’s been in the game from the beginning.

84

Recoil patterns can be easily adjusted such that pros can not reliably use them at range. Apex legends is a great example of this. Good luck using the flatline or devotion at anything outside 2x range, barring use of some kind of exploit.

Developing or balancing your game around the cheaters is a moronic idea.

You’re going to have to explain your logic here because it makes zero sense to me. As far as I know, weapons with these mechanics exist along a continuum of which they vary in effectiveness based on range from their target.

1 Like
85

Having a random quality isn’t skill. Either having projectile weapons which have travel time or a learnable bullet pattern is skillful, RNG or ‘RNG control’ is not. A stupidly simple hitscan weapon is more skillful than RNG mechanics. Bloom is to shooting as random ordinance is to weapon pick-ups, you could talk about tactics until the cows come home, it won’t allow you to consistently leverage it against others.

I played more Reach than the majority of the Halo population (across accounts over 20,000 MM + 5000 MLG customs, many before zero bloom). I can say with certainty that in 4v4 games the only time timing shots was a consideration was on the last shot, which could be circumvented with crouching as it reduced bloom. The point is that outside of long BTB-level distances you will be more efficient shooting at the fastest rate of fire if there’s mild bloom. If it’s more than mild bloom then most of the userbase would be up in arms over the inconsistency. If you want skill with shooting make the bullets projectile, the hitboxes tight, the aim assist low and that is enough, if you want something extra for whatever reason then add a spray pattern or something. RNG is worthless in adding to the competitive merit of the game, nay it’s its greatest detractor.

2 Likes
86
Original post. Click at your own discretion.

dude just stop, this kid literally thinks that non- RNG spray patterns are the hardest skill to hammer in the world. If this kid played apex he would cry because of that reason. Kid literally doesnt get why 343i is doing it. Mnk players would dominate if this were the case (I’m a mnk player) . I see the incentive of 343 doing this. Its a good thing and was not as bad as reach’s bloom. They just need to reduce the bloom imo like to the first flight.

87

the spray patterns are not random. Its exactly the same each magazine. Azolai made a video on this with the comando and the AR. Although you are correct to some extent.

88

To agree with this it wasn’t recoil at that point

89

It gives you both. Either wait and make sure your shot is accurate or blast away and hope for the best.

90

Non-random bullet spray patterns = sweatfest. I really don’t want to have to memorize some arbitrary bullet pattern to remain competitive. Randomized bloom is much preferable.

91

You call people kids like a teenager to try to appear as senior and excuse random mechanics by playing into PC elitism when the most skillful PC games don’t have those random mechanics. You’re a box of riddles.

4 Likes
92

I just went through in my comment why blasting away and hoping for the best beats out pacing the majority of the time, that is not both nor undermines my argument. When the only time pacing beats firing as fast as possible is the occasionally occurring miss due to randomness it isn’t a good mechanic.

Making shot placement more difficult through consistent mechanics is a better decision.

2 Likes
93
Original post. Click at your own discretion.

I read this as “I’m a lazy trashcan who, instead of letting pure skill be the determinant of a matches outcome, would rather let luck take the wheel.”

1 Like
94

How is bloom a better solution than a spray pattern?

95

Well if you’d actually engage in what I’m writing rather than resorting to “nopes”, answering things not written and not attempt to discredit what I day by making poor attempts at my skill and reading capabilities.

And this here would be a perfect opportunity for you to shine, were you’d explain how exactly the statistic and probabilities presented are not in line, and “in context” with Infinity.

Otherwise it’s nothing more than what we’ve seen so many times before with other mechanics and features and how people chose to end their part by going “well the game isn’t out yet so we don’t know how it’ll work”. Despite us having learned how it works from previous iterations or games.
I mean, back before Halo 4 had released, people claimed the Armor Upgrades weren’t perks and functioned differently than CoD perks because the difference in name, and, also went “well the game isn’t released yet so we don’t know how it works”.

So, please go ahead and explain how probability to hit with RNG based on user fire rate, is difficult to understand without the Halo Infinte context.

So, is this a correct interpretation?
First you tell me to stop, and then you “turn around” to the general reader and explain to them about “this kid”, and by “this kid” you mean me?
If that’s the case;
That’s a lot of “putting words in ones mouth”, especially when “this kid” barely mentioned Spray patterns.

“This kid” tested Apex with some friends years ago despite a reluctance to playing BRs because the scavenging on a massive map occasionally shrinking with one life wasn’t appealing.
“This kid” does not remember how many matches were played, but was not thrilled because the gameloop was to “this kid” not interesting. Firing mechanisms having nothing to do with it.
“This kid’s” shooter library:
Halo, GoW, MWO.
Previously played CoD, Ark, Deus Ex, Unreal, Quake, Counter-Strike to name a few.
So you tell “this kid”, why would Apex’s shooting mechanisms be an issue?

Disguised bragging?
“This kid” really couldn’t care less why i343 implements a random number generator.
Not to mention fine tuning aim assist helps controllers.
But that RNG is implemented overall.

Whataboutism.
Not being as bad as Reach doesn’t mean it’s good.

2 Likes
96

Bloom can be frustrating, but I don’t hate it. Halo Reach is my favorite Halo game to play right now, and the bloom is just part of the gameplay.

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97

And I think that RNG should have no place in an arena style/ competitive shooter (even if you play casually) and that there are much better and much more fun ways of bringing certain weapons in line with others. If you have problems understanding what I wrote feel free to ask to clarify what you don’t understand.

Does anyone think static spread on precision weapons is good? Use it to balance automatics but never for semi-automatics!

In my experience, the pistol was useful as a clean up weapon or when having 2-3 guys team shooting. The AR on the other hand was a beast when used right…
As for the pistol vs BR, well that’s exactly the type of sandbox I despise. Having a weapon with a similar concept only differ by “this is for short to medium range” and “this is for medium to long range” is super boring… I’d rather have one properly balanced utility weapon and 1-2 weapons less in the sandbox then these forced pseudo niches…

[quote=“Noskills117, post:81, topic:5601”]
Making the pistol or commando have slower projectiles would be wildly unpopular[/quote]
Interesting hypothesis but no sufficient proof…all we know for sure is that many people don’t like bloom as evident by the discussion on HI and the heavy criticism during Reach

1 Like
98

How can I engage with you if I can’t understand what you’re saying? Or even understand why? I mean, from my point of view, I don’t see bloom to be that big of an issue.

Rng or not. And the numbers don’t help either. I played the flight and didn’t see an issue with the bloom. Just the general aiming.

99

Original Post: Click at your own discretion.

Summary

So are we just making -Yoink!- up now?

100

Or I think that bullet spread should be used to encourage trigger discipline, not memorization of arbitrary patterns. And I’m pretty sure random bloom is a more accurate representation of how guns would work in real life compared to a repeated, identical bullet spread.
Incidentally, personal attacks don’t usually serve to strengthen one’s argument.