Why is Analyze Exclusive to Kinect?

> @flawless
>
> Still don’t believe you. I love how you word things. I’m not asking you to reveal ‘all your personal details to a random online’, only an idiot would do that. And why would you lie about this? Wow, you have to ask that question? This is the internet mate.

This is what I mean, you’re such a cynic. It really is sad, you must be such an embittered person and you have my pity.

If you really care PM me your email address and I’ll prove who I am.

> And I know the library looks like it has gesture controls as well as voice. My point is that it feels tacked on. The entire library seems to have no way be built specifically for Kinect. It feels like the idea of using Kinect to access has been shoe-horned in. I honestly wouldn’t mind if Kinect users got some feature that wouldn’t be plausible for someone with a controller. That makes a lot of sense.

Care to hazard a guess at what they could have done? There is pretty much nothing they could do with Kinect that couldn’t be mapped to a button press. So whatever they’d done you could have argued that it “seemed tacked on”.

> Can’t you see that this content has been intentionally walled off for no other reason than to make it exclusive to Kinect? Is there any harm at all in letting the library be accessed by a controller other than financial?

You don’t know that, and frankly I don’t know that either, but I’m not so arrogant as to assert my viewpoint whilst patronising someone else’s. It’s obvious that there are financial motivations, the game only exists in the first place for financial reasons.

I’ve worked in development for a long time and I’ve never known a dev choose to “wall off” content, in my experience it just doesn’t happen, least of all at a flagship developer like 343i. It’s unlikely we’ll never know for sure, but I’d be astounded if what you’re saying is true.

A developer pitches a game to a publisher, in this case 343i and Saber pitch to Microsoft. They tell Microsoft all of the features they’re going to deliver along with a delivery date and a cost. Microsoft review that and either agree or disagree. In all likelihood Microsoft will have said “We could really do with a Kinect feature in there”.

343 will then have come back and said “We can do voice commands in game and we could also do this feature we’re calling The Library, it’s a bit like the Autovista mode in Forza, you ‘collect’ objects in game and then we’ll have a model viewer with stats and stuff. It’s gonna cost an extra $40k to add” Microsoft agree and greenlight the project. That $40k it costs to add the feature wouldn’t have otherwise been available.

What you’re describing is that Microsoft have come in, looked at the game and said “Are there any features here we can lock off and make Kinect exclusive so we can say it’s better with Kinect?”

That’s just not a mentality I’ve ever come across in first party publishing, with developers like 343 the mentality is to give more, not less.

> Now, sure it’s only a minor feature but it’s the principle. If someone does something wrong it’s the principle that bothers me not the severity. If someone walked up to your wallet and opened it up and took a dollar out of it would you just say “ah well, it’s only a dollar?”
>
> It’s 343’s actions that I disagree with, not the severity. If we give developers an inch they’ll take a mile. Today it’s just a Library feature. If they feel like they can they’ll take us all for a ride. Who knows what amounts of content will be walled off to promote superfluous peripherals. What about needing a Windows phone to play Firefight? Sure that’s ridiculous but it’s the same principle. Where do we draw the line?

I think a large part of this debate boils down to whether the Library would have existed if it wasn’t for Kinect. Well, this would be a pretty expensive feature to add (you’re talking tens of thousands of dollars) and gives very little additional value to the project without being Kinect exclusive.

How many extra copies of the game would they sell if they’d added the library as part of the vanilla feature set accessible with the D-Pad? Probably none. It doesn’t broaden your market at all. So why would they have ever been planning to add it?

By adding it as a Kinect feature they’ll probably sell a few thousand extra copies of the game to Kinect owners as well as selling some Kinects to Halo fans.

Now just think about that for a second:

If the library had always been there and could be accessed by the D-Pad it adds no value to the game in terms of sales potential.

Adding the library as a Kinect feature sells them more games and more Kinects.

Why would they ever have considered adding it as a feature you could access without Kinect?

> Since Halo: CEA is using the Halo CE engine for gameplay, all the buttons on the controller are being used, even the directional pad

The D-pad wasnt used in CE, theyre just making it Kinect exclusive because they want to, they would make A LOT more money if they released as DLC, but they would have A LOT fewer pissed customers if they weren’t such money grubbing -BLAM!- trying to sell a black camera that has no place within a Halo game

I can understand why you are mad, since it seems they are locking people out of a feature. But from the very beginning they have said that this is an optional feature. It doesn’t affect your ability to enjoy the core gameplay experience. Tell me, are you buying Halo Anniversary because you can scan items and rotate 3D models? My answer to that question is no. This is like ordering a limited edition of a game, or purchasing DLC. You will get a whole bunch of extras with the limited edition, on top of the core experience. Do you have to go out of your way to purchase them? No. There is a reason it says “Better with Kinect” on the box, aside from marketing ploys. It is because you essentially unlock additional content if you invested the money in Kinect. Much like Reach Legendary owners were awarded with several pieces of armour, a statue, and special features.

From a marketing standpoint though, it’s genius. They’ll sell more Kinect units this way. Regardless of whether we like it or not, the industry will slowly shift towards Kinect. Halo 4 will inevitably have more Kinect functionality than Halo Anniversary. But they will not drop the controller aspect and alienate an entire market. Picture it this way: we get a whole new demographic of people joining the community, and a Microsoft gets a whole new demographic of sales and thus more money, ultimately equaling more Halo.

It’s true that you need a 3D TV for quality 3D, but there are other complaint comparisons-

If people are complaining about others who bought Kinect getting this feature that could have easily been added for everyone, why didn’t you complain that people who bought the legendary edition of Reach got flaming heads? Bungie could have easily added flames for everyone…

Also, people are complaining because they have a small room and can’t use a Kinect:
A lot of people, including me, only have time to play Halo for a few hours on maybe 2-3 days every week, putting us at a severe ranking disadvantage compared to people with lots of free time… yet we don’t complain and ask to get credits 3 times faster…

EDIT: Flawless has pretty much pointed out exactly why this 'outrage; is so rude and entitled.

> > @flawless
> > There is pretty much nothing they could do with Kinect that couldn’t be mapped to a button press.
> >
> > It’s obvious that there are financial motivations
> >
> > In all likelihood Microsoft will have said “We could really do with a Kinect feature in there”.
> >
> > How many extra copies of the game would they sell if they’d added the library as part of the vanilla feature set accessible with the D-Pad?
> >
> > Probably none.
> >
> > Adding the library as a Kinect feature sells them more games and more Kinects.
> >
> > Why would they ever have considered adding it as a feature you could access without Kinect?
>
> Holy crap, I like how when I summarize your entire post you pretty much agree with me.
>
> It’s not an enhancement via Kinect, it’s a restriction via Kinect for financial reasons.
>
> Also, I am now fully convinced you are not part of the development community. The fact that you think that Sabre and 343 pitched Anniversary to MS proves you have an extremely limited understanding of the development process.
>
> Thanks for agreeing with me though.

> Cause Kinect is good but ignornant people fail to see that.

It is an expensive eye toy, it is a gimmicky way to attract more casual gamers to the xbox 360.

I don’t like having to yell RELOAD and GRENADE all the time.

The point is like OP said this feature SHOULD of been for everyone, and if you have Kinect, you cam just say it like for reloading and grenade.

> > > @flawless
> > > There is pretty much nothing they could do with Kinect that couldn’t be mapped to a button press.
> > >
> > > It’s obvious that there are financial motivations
> > >
> > > In all likelihood Microsoft will have said “We could really do with a Kinect feature in there”.
> > >
> > > How many extra copies of the game would they sell if they’d added the library as part of the vanilla feature set accessible with the D-Pad?
> > >
> > > Probably none.
> > >
> > > Adding the library as a Kinect feature sells them more games and more Kinects.
> > >
> > > Why would they ever have considered adding it as a feature you could access without Kinect?
> >
> > Holy crap, I like how when I summarize your entire post you pretty much agree with me.
> >
> > It’s not an enhancement via Kinect, it’s a restriction via Kinect for financial reasons.
> >
> > Also, I am now fully convinced you are not part of the development community. The fact that you think that Sabre and 343 pitched Anniversary to MS proves you have an extremely limited understanding of the development process.
>
> Unbelievable.
>
> What kind of working relationship do you think they have? They just make whatever game they like without having to go and report in with MGS? If that was the case then how can you also believe that MS told them to add Kinect support?
>
> You’re an idiot.
>
> The offer is there, PM me an email address and I’ll tell you who I am. Not that it should even matter, my argument makes more sense than yours even if I didn’t have industry credentials.

> I really dislike the fact that this feature is Kinect exclusive.
>
> I never use my Kinect. It was a waste of money and I cannot physically use it in my bedroom(which is 2 feet smaller than Kinect’s requirements).
>
> Analyze is a cool feature, but it isn’t going to make me dig the -Yoink!- thing out of my storage boxes…
>
> ~Hyokin

Just your luck! Nyko has recently released an attachment for the Kinect that zooms in the camera, allowing you to be closer to the sensor without needing all the space!

I’m just concerned about the precedent, because the conversation about Kinect at Microsoft has clearly shifted. I thought it was, “What cool things could we do with Kinect that we can add to the game?”

Now it’s, “What features can we slice off to call Kinect-only?”

Which is a very different topic entirely. To me, it says they ran out of ideas for how to make Kinect relevant to a game like CEA, so they settled on an alternate strategy to try and make Kinect a value-add proposition.

It’s a neat feature, one more basket of Easter eggs to go and find, and another layer to the game fiction added into the mix. But it really is exceptionally bad form to handle it this way. I own Kinect, and find it distressing for this reason: if this is what they did for CEA, imagine where Halo 4 might go.

> > > > @flawless
> > > > There is pretty much nothing they could do with Kinect that couldn’t be mapped to a button press.
> > > >
> > > > It’s obvious that there are financial motivations
> > > >
> > > > In all likelihood Microsoft will have said “We could really do with a Kinect feature in there”.
> > > >
> > > > How many extra copies of the game would they sell if they’d added the library as part of the vanilla feature set accessible with the D-Pad?
> > > >
> > > > Probably none.
> > > >
> > > > Adding the library as a Kinect feature sells them more games and more Kinects.
> > > >
> > > > Why would they ever have considered adding it as a feature you could access without Kinect?
> > >
> > > Holy crap, I like how when I summarize your entire post you pretty much agree with me.
> > >
> > > It’s not an enhancement via Kinect, it’s a restriction via Kinect for financial reasons.
> > >
> > > Also, I am now fully convinced you are not part of the development community. The fact that you think that Sabre and 343 pitched Anniversary to MS proves you have an extremely limited understanding of the development process.
> >
> > Unbelievable.
> >
> > What kind of working relationship do you think they have? They just make whatever game they like without having to go and report in with MGS? If that was the case then how can you also believe that MS told them to add Kinect support?
> >
> > You’re an idiot.
> >
> > The offer is there, PM me an email address and I’ll tell you who I am. Not that it should even matter, my argument makes more sense than yours even if I didn’t have industry credentials.
>
> Wow, if taking things out of context was an Olympic sport you’d have the gold medal. Where did I say that ‘they can make what ever game they want without having to report to their publisher’? I never even implied that. Only a crazy person would think that. I will copy and paste it again so you can try and have another go. Now pay attention: The fact that you think that Sabre and 343 pitched Anniversary to MS proves you have an extremely limited understanding of the development process.
>
> And like I pointed out (which you ignored), you pretty much agree with me on the matter of 343 using Kinect to wall off a feature for no other reason than exclusivity.

> I’m just concerned about the precedent, because the conversation about Kinect at Microsoft has clearly shifted. I thought it was, “What cool things could we do with Kinect that we can add to the game?”
>
> Now it’s, “What features can we slice off to call Kinect-only?”
>
> Which is a very different topic entirely. To me, it says they ran out of ideas for how to make Kinect relevant to a game like CEA, so they settled on an alternate strategy to try and make Kinect a value-add proposition.
>
> It’s a neat feature, one more basket of Easter eggs to go and find, and another layer to the game fiction added into the mix. But it really is exceptionally bad form to handle it this way. I own Kinect, and find it distressing for this reason: if this is what they did for CEA, imagine where Halo 4 might go.

Thank you. Another fellow Kinect owner concerned about the implications of this move. Most people here who have Kinect can’t see the principle of what MS is doing, as far as they’re concerned everything is Ok because they aren’t missing out.

Sure, today it’s just a fairly small feature being restricted but who’s to say they won’t push it further? Like I said before, what about having an exclusive multiplayer map for people who have a windows phone (I’m sure if that happened the supporters here would suddenly change their tune)? That sounds ridiculous right? But it’s the exact same principle. Where do we draw the line? Just because something is only a little dodgy we shouldn’t give a company a free pass. Wrong is wrong, no matter major or minor. .

When it comes down to it, companies will only push their consumers only as far as the consumers will let them get away with. And judging by this community it looks like they’re willing to be pushed pretty far.

@Shadow

I like how you don’t PM me, because you know that when I prove who I am, it invalidates your argument.

Please explain what I’ve said that makes you think I don’t understand the development process, as I really don’t follow you. The likely outcome here is that it is you who doesn’t understand the development process. What with me having worked in the industry for several years and you merely being a fan. You choose what you want to believe, I believe in facts based on my own experiences with the company in question. Every single company that falls under the MGS umbrella will pitch every single game to Microsoft, they have a greenlighting procedure like every other publisher. Games don’t get made by Microsoft that haven’t been pitched to Microsoft. That’s just a fact.

And we’re not in agreement about this, your opinion is that a feature was removed from the standard game and had Kinect functionality added, I am of the opinion that a feature was added with the sole intention of supporting Kinect. You say a feature was removed, I say a feature was added. They are different stances.

Selecting a couple of sentences from my post out of context and removing everything that disagrees with you does not mean we agree.

The thing we agree on is that the intention was to make money, but that point is moot. Every single thing that Microsoft ever does is with the intention of making them more money. As a company listed on the stock market they are legally obliged to make the absolute maximum amount of money possible for their shareholders.

i’m finding all the crybabies in this thread entertaining. this is such a small feature it is ridonkulous.

Apparently it’s something to do with 343’s principles.

shrug

> > Cause Kinect is good but ignornant people fail to see that.
>
> It is an expensive eye toy, it is a gimmicky way to attract more casual gamers to the xbox 360.
>
> I don’t like having to yell RELOAD and GRENADE all the time.
>
> The point is like OP said this feature SHOULD of been for everyone, and if you have Kinect, you cam just say it like for reloading and grenade.

Oh god you are here …

First of all it is not just an eye toy :wink: Kinect is a big step and you would know it if you knew what you can do with it. Specially on the pc.

and you don’t HAVE to yell anything.

And no the library would probably not existed without the Idea to do something for kinect.

> > I cannot physically use it in my bedroom(which is 2 feet smaller than Kinect’s requirements).
>
> You’d still be able to use it; it deals with vocal commands, not gestures.
>
> And you have the thing, so any complaining on the feature is just laziness.

Not sure how you get laziness from that…

Why can’t I dislike a product that I’ve purchased, used, and determined to be have more cons than pros?

Especially if the next installment in my favorite series has a feature exclusive to said product?

>.>

> I can understand why you are mad, since it seems they are locking people out of a feature. But from the very beginning they have said that this is an optional feature. It doesn’t affect your ability to enjoy the core gameplay experience. Tell me, are you buying Halo Anniversary because you can scan items and rotate 3D models? My answer to that question is no. This is like ordering a limited edition of a game, or purchasing DLC. You will get a whole bunch of extras with the limited edition, on top of the core experience. Do you have to go out of your way to purchase them? No. There is a reason it says “Better with Kinect” on the box, aside from marketing ploys. It is because you essentially unlock additional content if you invested the money in Kinect. Much like Reach Legendary owners were awarded with several pieces of armour, a statue, and special features.
>
> From a marketing standpoint though, it’s genius. They’ll sell more Kinect units this way. Regardless of whether we like it or not, the industry will slowly shift towards Kinect. Halo 4 will inevitably have more Kinect functionality than Halo Anniversary. But they will not drop the controller aspect and alienate an entire market. Picture it this way: we get a whole new demographic of people joining the community, and a Microsoft gets a whole new demographic of sales and thus more money, ultimately equaling more Halo.

After reading this post I am glad that the library is Kinect exclusive. Like he says it’s just like buying a limited edition.

> …This is like ordering a limited edition of a game, or purchasing DLC. You will get a whole bunch of extras with the limited edition, on top of the core experience…

But the Limited Edition/DLC is only for people who have a Kinect, which is still stupid…

I understand why they did it and all, just business, but I would love to have the library available to people like me who can’t afford to go buy a $200 accessory.

Please, Suggest a button on the controller for them to use.

There isn’t one. Every single button already has a use in Anniversary.

If you want Analyze Mode get Kinect. I know I plan to.

Is it unfair that the only way to use 3D mode is to get a 3D tv? I didn’t think so.