I just wanted to why it was implemented so high in this game?
If you ask some people, they say it’s because 343i caterred to the unskilled. I agree with that theory, but I don’t see it to be a massive problem with it.
I just turn of Aim Assist.
I don’t really feel any aim assist when I play especially with the rifles, the only time I feel aim assist is in costem that’s pretty much it even then I have to be very close to them. 
> http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
exactly this. to make it more accessible for newer players and to shorten the skill gap so they have a chance.
Its pretty obvious, the simple answer would be to cater to new players and casuals… The more complicated answer is that controllers dont offer necessarily the same accuracy and speed to that of a high speed PC game…
lets be honest, a mouse will always be more accurate then a controller, and your not going to get the same results from a PC game compared to a console as far as precision goes, so aim assist is not a bad thing, just something that’s over-glorified…
don’t believe me?
go compare halo 2 on PC to Halo 2 on console with aim assist off,the difference is HUGE
I guess that answers the question and why I honestly feel no innovation. I don’t enjoy Halo as much as I use to because I was always doing something but I guess with Halo 4 being a sub par Halo I guess I can see why I don’t enjoy it anymore and mostly lose a lot of match because I’m bored and I can’t find the incentive to play like I use to.
> http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
> > http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
>
> If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
What hindered newer players from picking up Halo 3 or 2? They were easy to play but hard to master. Why does the skill set of a game matter if people are playing equal players anyway?
Halo was like chess. A game played by over 500 million people on average. The basic structures and memorizing each piece is and about everyone knows them. But being able to hold your own against someone who has played for many years is a different matter entirely - As it should be.
Now it’s like Ludo.
If 343 is planning to let the later Halo’s play for you like in Halo 4 because of new players, then no - I don’t want new players to the franchise.
> > > http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
> >
> > If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
>
> What hindered newer players from picking up Halo 3 or 2? They were easy to play but hard to master.
Other way around. Halo’s an easy enough game to master because the depth of strategy really just comes down to finess with a Br/DMR and knowing how to position yourself. It’s hard to get into because said easy mastery lets a large proportion of the matchmaking population play at a level far and above any newcomer. Granted even at the top there’s always a back and forth to stay on top but in what other multiplayer event (I’m not even going to restrict this to gaming) is that not true?
Anyway, making the game accessible isn’t a horrible stab at core, conservative values for the sake of foreign newcomers. It’s a way to overcome the basic inadequacies of gameplay, ie. it’s a basic improvement to what can easily seem like an awkward, clunky, frustrating FPS and magnetism is the least of what 343 does to make the game playable. Just take a look at our oversimplified sandbox and maps, dating back to CE.
> > > > http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
> > >
> > > If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
> >
> > What hindered newer players from picking up Halo 3 or 2? They were easy to play but hard to master.
>
> Other way around. Halo’s an easy enough game to master because the depth of strategy really just comes down to finess with a Br/DMR and knowing how to position yourself. It’s hard to get into because said easy mastery lets a large proportion of the matchmaking population play at a level far and above any newcomer. Granted even at the top there’s always a back and forth to stay on top but in what other multiplayer event (I’m not even going to restrict this to gaming) is that not true?
>
> Anyway, making the game accessible isn’t a horrible stab at core, conservative values for the sake of foreign newcomers. It’s a way to overcome the basic inadequacies of gameplay, ie. it’s a basic improvement to what can easily seem like an awkward, clunky, frustrating FPS and magnetism is the least of what 343 does to make the game playable. Just take a look at our oversimplified sandbox and maps, dating back to CE.
That could be said for all Halo games…
as good as they were, they never had the slick smooth control of a quake or marathon…
If you had to look up what quake and Marathon were, then your not a Bungie fan…
> > > > > http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
> > > >
> > > > If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
> > >
> > > What hindered newer players from picking up Halo 3 or 2? They were easy to play but hard to master.
> >
> > Other way around. Halo’s an easy enough game to master because the depth of strategy really just comes down to finess with a Br/DMR and knowing how to position yourself. It’s hard to get into because said easy mastery lets a large proportion of the matchmaking population play at a level far and above any newcomer. Granted even at the top there’s always a back and forth to stay on top but in what other multiplayer event (I’m not even going to restrict this to gaming) is that not true?
> >
> > Anyway, making the game accessible isn’t a horrible stab at core, conservative values for the sake of foreign newcomers. It’s a way to overcome the basic inadequacies of gameplay, ie. it’s a basic improvement to what can easily seem like an awkward, clunky, frustrating FPS and magnetism is the least of what 343 does to make the game playable. Just take a look at our oversimplified sandbox and maps, dating back to CE.
>
> That could be said for all Halo games…
>
> as good as they were, they never had the slick smooth control of a quake or marathon…
>
> If you had to look up what quake and Marathon were, then your not a Bungie fan…
Quake was not even made by Bungie.
> [That could be said for all Halo games…
>
> as good as they were, they never had the slick smooth control of a quake or marathon…
>
> If you had to look up what quake and Marathon were, then your not a Bungie fan…
-
Just to be clear, where does being a bungie fan fall into this? I’m not incidentally (but I don’t think that was what you were trying to get at) but I do know what Quake (id, I know it’s been a long time since the classic shooters) and Marathon (Bungie) are despite feeling they’re quite a bit overrated. Hell I played them. What I think matters a little bit more is appreciating the genre as a whole rather than just one developer’s work because then you can put that work into context.
-
Well I’d say that has a lot more to do with what we’re playing the game with (ie. a controller instead of a mouse) more than the games themselves. That said, that only applies to aiming. Trying to pull a coordinated series of keystrokes out of your butt is a much less slick process than using a carefully arranged set of buttons on a controller, and Halo was the first game to really show that despite it introducing the ever-misunderstood and forever-scapegoated bullet magnetism.
However what it didn’t do was keep up the depth and creativity in level design and gameplay that was much more common in games like Unreal Tournament and I’ll throw Shogo up there too just to cite something I bet no one here remembers. That was “bad” according to the standards of the time (even Reach was still making up ground on the original UT, see Invasion, and we’re still a long way off on weapon and level design) but it made Halo on principle a much more accessible game which is probably why it sold quite a bit better than it’s “betters.”
Complaining (to hark on my original point) then that Halo is ruining itself by making itself still more accessible is sort of missing the point of, well, Halo. Ultimately it’s always been about accessibility and we should finally take that to the fullest and cut out those clunky, tiresome components of the game that, while deep-set conventions, are preventing Halo from living up to its fullest.
> > > > > > http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
> > > >
> > > > What hindered newer players from picking up Halo 3 or 2? They were easy to play but hard to master.
> > >
> > > Other way around. Halo’s an easy enough game to master because the depth of strategy really just comes down to finess with a Br/DMR and knowing how to position yourself. It’s hard to get into because said easy mastery lets a large proportion of the matchmaking population play at a level far and above any newcomer. Granted even at the top there’s always a back and forth to stay on top but in what other multiplayer event (I’m not even going to restrict this to gaming) is that not true?
> > >
> > > Anyway, making the game accessible isn’t a horrible stab at core, conservative values for the sake of foreign newcomers. It’s a way to overcome the basic inadequacies of gameplay, ie. it’s a basic improvement to what can easily seem like an awkward, clunky, frustrating FPS and magnetism is the least of what 343 does to make the game playable. Just take a look at our oversimplified sandbox and maps, dating back to CE.
> >
> > That could be said for all Halo games…
> >
> > as good as they were, they never had the slick smooth control of a quake or marathon…
> >
> > If you had to look up what quake and Marathon were, then your not a Bungie fan…
>
> Quake was not even made by Bungie.
a fair chunk of bungie was working with id software around that time before moving on to marathon, so technically you could say bungie had a part in it…
> > > > http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
> > >
> > > If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
> >
> > What hindered newer players from picking up Halo 3 or 2? They were easy to play but hard to master.
>
> Other way around. Halo’s an easy enough game to master because the depth of strategy really just comes down to finess with a Br/DMR and knowing how to position yourself. It’s hard to get into because said easy mastery lets a large proportion of the matchmaking population play at a level far and above any newcomer. Granted even at the top there’s always a back and forth to stay on top but in what other multiplayer event (I’m not even going to restrict this to gaming) is that not true?
>
> Anyway, making the game accessible isn’t a horrible stab at core, conservative values for the sake of foreign newcomers. It’s a way to overcome the basic inadequacies of gameplay, ie. it’s a basic improvement to what can easily seem like an awkward, clunky, frustrating FPS and magnetism is the least of what 343 does to make the game playable. Just take a look at our oversimplified
> sandbox and maps, dating back to CE.
Other way around?
You are making it sound way too easy when you are saying it only comes down to finess with a BR, and being able to position yourself. While this is real factors, it is not easy to master and can take years pre- Halo 4 and Reach. Even though player put in thousands of games into Halo multiplayer he still wouldn’t even be close to competing with great Halo players.
A large portion of the community doesn’t place themselves at Power Positions or care about special map movement. They don’t constantly think that going one way or another is better for them. You would never see anyone jump to P3 on Heretic in Halo 3 unless they were over level 40. That is the same as saying you would only see around 5% of the population using that exact Power Position. The rest of that map is used by everyone.
Basing it off my experience everyone up to the level of 30 (In Halo 3) has the same gameplay style. Roughly guessing around 90% of the population runs straight at you when they see you and try to kill you - Which is something everyone can do.
It takes much time to master different things in Halo and as most of the population really isn’t playing enough get better at the game, they are really just staying at the same level. For example, being able to spawn kill takes thousands of games to be able to do, but as most of the population doesn’t play this much, most of the population is going to stay at the same level.
It’s easy to pick up - but hard to master.
(And my experience is based off over 100 days of playing Halo 3, equivalent to between 20.000 and 30.000 games in matchmaking).
> > > > > > > http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
> > > > >
> > > > > What hindered newer players from picking up Halo 3 or 2? They were easy to play but hard to master.
> > > >
> > > > Other way around. Halo’s an easy enough game to master because the depth of strategy really just comes down to finess with a Br/DMR and knowing how to position yourself. It’s hard to get into because said easy mastery lets a large proportion of the matchmaking population play at a level far and above any newcomer. Granted even at the top there’s always a back and forth to stay on top but in what other multiplayer event (I’m not even going to restrict this to gaming) is that not true?
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, making the game accessible isn’t a horrible stab at core, conservative values for the sake of foreign newcomers. It’s a way to overcome the basic inadequacies of gameplay, ie. it’s a basic improvement to what can easily seem like an awkward, clunky, frustrating FPS and magnetism is the least of what 343 does to make the game playable. Just take a look at our oversimplified sandbox and maps, dating back to CE.
> > >
> > > That could be said for all Halo games…
> > >
> > > as good as they were, they never had the slick smooth control of a quake or marathon…
> > >
> > > If you had to look up what quake and Marathon were, then your not a Bungie fan…
> >
> > Quake was not even made by Bungie.
>
> a fair chunk of bungie was working with id software around that time before moving on to marathon, so technically you could say bungie had a part in it…
And it’s all part of the same genre anyway. You could cite Unreal, Shogo, Jedi Knights, and even Mechwarrior (sitting there on the fringe) to show that Halo hasn’t ever had the same level of polish in precision (because it was the first console shooter to get it right) and doesn’t even compared to more modern games on the same platform (since they’re not trying to honor how it felt to play a shooter on the first xbox.)
> > [That could be said for all Halo games…
> >
> > as good as they were, they never had the slick smooth control of a quake or marathon…
> >
> > If you had to look up what quake and Marathon were, then your not a Bungie fan…
>
> 1. Just to be clear, where does being a bungie fan fall into this? I’m not incidentally (but I don’t think that was what you were trying to get at) but I do know what Quake (id, I know it’s been a long time since the classic shooters) and Marathon (Bungie) are despite feeling they’re quite a bit overrated. Hell I played them. What I think matters a little bit more is appreciating the genre as a whole rather than just one developer’s work because then you can put that work into context.
>
>
> 2. Well I’d say that has a lot more to do with what we’re playing the game with (ie. a controller instead of a mouse) more than the games themselves. That said, that only applies to aiming. Trying to pull a coordinated series of keystrokes out of your butt is a much less slick process than using a carefully arranged set of buttons on a controller, and Halo was the first game to really show that despite it introducing the ever-misunderstood and forever-scapegoated bullet magnetism.
>
> However what it didn’t do was keep up the depth and creativity in level design and gameplay that was much more common in games like Unreal Tournament and I’ll throw Shogo up there too just to cite something I bet no one here remembers. That was “bad” according to the standards of the time (even Reach was still making up ground on the original UT, see Invasion, and we’re still a long way off on weapon and level design) but it made Halo on principle a much more accessible game which is probably why it sold quite a bit better than it’s “betters.”
>
> Complaining (to hark on my original point) then that Halo is ruining itself by making itself still more accessible is sort of missing the point of, well, Halo. Ultimately it’s always been about accessibility and we should finally take that to the fullest and cut out those clunky, tiresome components of the game that, while deep-set conventions, are preventing Halo from living up to its fullest.
Im not saying that console halo is nooby because it uses aim assist, Im just saying that console FPS games dont have the instant power and speed, so having little to no aim assist in a halo game would make it feel more broken than skillful since you wouldnt even be able to coordinate shots to the Spartans body, let alone the head… so aim assist is something more or less required in fast paced shooters like this…
Although there is a line for how much 1 can put into a game, I dont think Halo 4 necessarily crossed it, at least compared to games that over do it like call of duty…
and the dreaded aim assist of the original Grand Theft Auto Trilogy…
Oh god… Bad memories ;(
> > > > > > > > http://i3.minus.com/jbvGWojtMTxOmx.jpg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I didn’t know better, I’d almost come to the conclusion that long time halo players don’t want new players getting into the franchise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What hindered newer players from picking up Halo 3 or 2? They were easy to play but hard to master.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other way around. Halo’s an easy enough game to master because the depth of strategy really just comes down to finess with a Br/DMR and knowing how to position yourself. It’s hard to get into because said easy mastery lets a large proportion of the matchmaking population play at a level far and above any newcomer. Granted even at the top there’s always a back and forth to stay on top but in what other multiplayer event (I’m not even going to restrict this to gaming) is that not true?
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, making the game accessible isn’t a horrible stab at core, conservative values for the sake of foreign newcomers. It’s a way to overcome the basic inadequacies of gameplay, ie. it’s a basic improvement to what can easily seem like an awkward, clunky, frustrating FPS and magnetism is the least of what 343 does to make the game playable. Just take a look at our oversimplified sandbox and maps, dating back to CE.
> > > >
> > > > That could be said for all Halo games…
> > > >
> > > > as good as they were, they never had the slick smooth control of a quake or marathon…
> > > >
> > > > If you had to look up what quake and Marathon were, then your not a Bungie fan…
> > >
> > > Quake was not even made by Bungie.
> >
> > a fair chunk of bungie was working with id software around that time before moving on to marathon, so technically you could say bungie had a part in it…
>
> And it’s all part of the same genre anyway. You could cite Unreal, Shogo, Jedi Knights, and even Mechwarrior (sitting there on the fringe) to show that Halo hasn’t ever had the same level of polish in precision (because it was the first console shooter to get it right) and doesn’t even compared to more modern games on the same platform (since they’re not trying to honor how it felt to play a shooter on the first xbox.)
i gotta disagree with you on that mate, all the ports of Id game, unreal tournament, and a plethora of fps in the late 90s had fluid control down before Halo CE on consoles
I would say Halo is the first console shooter to get decent controls right in the XBOX/PS2/GAMECUBE Generation… considering its competition, that’s not an achievement to take lightly…
> You are making it sound way too easy when you are saying it only comes down to finess with a BR, and being able to position yourself. While this is true, it is not easy to master and can take years pre- Halo 4 and Reach. Even though player put in thousands of games into Halo multiplayer he still wouldn’t even be close to competing with great Halo players.
So? That has everything to do with the nature of individual competition, not the way Halo is designed. Everything from shuffleboard to the pinewood derby can see years and years spent honing skills and strategy (where applicable) given that with just one other person you can feed the arms race.
> A large portion of the community doesn’t place themselves at Power Positions or care about special map movement. They don’t constantly think that going one way or another is better for them. You would never see anyone jump to P3 on Heretic in Halo 3 unless they were over level 40. That is the same as saying you would only see around 5% of the population using that exact Power Position. The rest of that map is used by everyone.
I think you’re taking a much too narrow focus just to score nit picking points. While your average joe won’t use the “best” movement pathways, positions, or show appropriate caution for the situation he’ll still play in a way that focuses on controlling limited movement pathways and fixed shooting points in the same vein. Why? Because Halo in it’s simplicity doesn’t offer a lot besides that. Play anything for a while and you get a feel for what works, and unfortunately for halo that’s only a very narrow set of gameplay conventions that, once you understand, put you in the running for MOST of matchmaking, but without them (see. the lot of the newbie even if that newbie has a lot of FPS experience) leaves you high and dry because (for example) the DMR/BR being the only standard weapon that works is not intuitive.
Thus halo is hard to get into but easy to master. Once you climb up the initially steep slope of Halo’s asymptotic skill curve it’s a long (but endless) plateau where you don’t really move on much further in you play style besides honing in on the fine details of where to move, when, and how not to miss. Take for a point of comparison Rainbow Six or Section 8 and you’ll see a lot of progressive development to new and interesting styles of play in the bulk of the population, but in Halo that same core mass revolves around similar strategies to what consists of higher level competitive gameplay (even if in the crucible of personal competition they don’t work as well.)
> i gotta disagree with you on that mate, all the ports of Id game, unreal tournament, and a plethora of fps in the late 90s had fluid control down before Halo CE on consoles
>
> I would say Halo is the first console shooter to get decent controls right in the XBOX/PS2/GAMECUBE Generation… considering its competition, that’s not an achievement to take lightly…
Well actually that’s what I was trying to say. Halo was the first truly playable console FPS, not the first playable FPS. 
Where I think Halo’s issue lie is the fact that unlike most other games on the 360 and soon the Xbox One, it has a certain segment of its population wanting it to feel like the original games, ie. those that had just learned out how make a shooter work on the platform and naturally had some issues with what we would consider now the finer points of precision and polish based on more recent games that have used old Halo as a launching off point, not a bible.