Why I Hate Noble Team

Games Other Halo
1

Or to be more precise, why I hate how Noble Team is implemented in the game. I don’t hate Noble Team per se (except for Kat, which I despise).

What I dislike so much is that at least one Noble Team member is forced upon you during most missions, yet they serve no real use during actual gameplay. It’s not that I generally dislike having an invincible NPC ally around. But they should either be unobtrusive like the Arbiter in H3, or of actual use like Mickey during ONI Alpha Site or Buck during NMPD HQ in ODST.

Many missions during Reach feel like the notion of you just being part of a team is forced upon you, which is totally fine in and of itself. But if I am just one of many, so to speak, then the rest of my team should be of actual use. And that’s where Noble Team doesn’t deliver.

The best example I can think of is Reach’s first mission, Winter Contingency. Except for Jun, every other Noble Team member is running around with you at one point or another. Yet it’s still me who has to do most of the work. I mean, I understand that Bungie didn’t want to make your NPC allies “steal” your kills. But if I’m running around with four NPC allies and still have to kill at least 90% of all the bad guys myself, I’m seriously asking what purpose my colleagues serve. What use are they to me?

What also adds to this is that the enemy AI seems to be programmed to focus on the player. The Covies will keep shooting your allies only as long as they don’t see you. I don’t know how often it happened that a Covie was engaged in combat with someone else and turned around to shoot me the moment I popped out of cover. I didn’t even shot that Covie yet or threw a grenade. All I did was to move into his view. Well, that’s not entirely true; I didn’t move into his view because I WAS BEHIND HIM!

Example 1: Winter Contingency, battle in the communication center’s courtyard
I had been on the ledge above the “garage” where you have a great overview of the courtyard, picking off opponents with the DMR. Carter was down below inside the garage next to the forklift and fighting a couple of Jackals and an Elite. Well, “fighting” isn’t exactly correct - he was getting shot at.

Since I had cleared the courtyard of pretty much everything Covenant, I ran along the ledge towards the stair and into the garage. I hadn’t fired a single shot or thrown a grenade at the Jackals and the Elites who were pretty close to Carter by then. Still they instantly ignored Carter and turned around to shoot me.

Example 2: Pillar of Autumn, the fight against the two Hunters
Aside from Emile vastly overestimating the effective range of his shotgun, he didn’t even manage to draw fire. I had already killed the few Skirmishers that were with the Hunters and then hid around the corner. Emile had a rare flash of genius and actually charged the Hunters, so now both of them where engaged in melee combat with Emile (they beat the living daylights ouf of him).

Yet every single time I popped around the corner, both Hunters instantly ignored Emile, turned in my directions and started shooting. Again, I didn’t shoot, throw grenades, or do anything else that could be even only remotely be considered a hostile action. I just established a line of sight between them and me. And none of the Hunters could see me because both faced the completely other direction, busy beating up Emile.

The funny thing is that Covies will keep attacking their current targets if they happen to be Marines, ODSTs, or any other non-Noble Team NPC. The only time they attack me instead is if they kill their targets or I attack the Covies.

In the light of all that I really, REALLY hope that the Halo series is done with games where you are part of a team. Please, 343i, let me play as the lone wolf again like in the first trilogy and in (most parts of) ODST. Don’t force NPC allies upon me that are of no help whatsoever and are just a constant annoyance. Thank you. =)

2

Buck and Mickey were absolutely no use whatsoever. I literally watched Mickey just stand on the hill and do nothing.

3

It didn’t really bother me at all. They’re just NPCs. All I know is that they are apart of Noble Team so obviously they are going to stick by each other till the end.

4

Yeah, NPCs aren’t really meant to be the smartest of AI.
Every game I’ve played, the NPCs that follow you around and “help” you, are all ways suck at shooting, and they are never that smart. The only game I’ve played that had useful NPCs was L4D. I hope that in Halo 4, if there are any NPCs, it’s only for a short amount of time, or they can be knocked out, and can kill enemies.

5

It sounds like you hate Reach’s AI programming more than Noble Team. A shame, because I wanted to agree with your dislike of the team. They’re shallow, depthless, soulless characters. I didn’t care or feel for any of them, including the empty Noble Six.

6

> Buck and Mickey were absolutely no use whatsoever. I literally watched Mickey just stand on the hill and do nothing.

Give Buck a sniper rilfe during NMPD HQ or give Mickey a rocket launcher or shotgun during ONI Alpha Site, and they each will get more kills during that one mission than any Noble Team member during the whole Reach campaign.

As for the actual characters of Noble Team, they indeed are shallow and soulless. So much so, in fact, that I just don’t give a damn about them. Kat is the only exception due to her being so utterly obnoxious.

7

I was looking forward to their deaths, really. I was sad Jun didn’t join them.

Honestly, I have no faith in either Bungie or 343i to create competent allied AI. All the AI is usually good for is drawing fire. Or giving them a Rocket Launcher and letting them go nuts while I sit back for a bit and watch. And Noble Team can’t even do that for me.

8

I agree and disagree with this thread. I agree because I also felt like Noble Team was a flop of characters. I usually love Halo characters. Johnson is the pinnacle of badassery and Sweet Williams. Keyes was flat-but-cool. Miranda Keyes was incredibly cheesy, but I had no qualms with her. The thing is, I’m describing characters in support roles. Noble Team doesn’t fall into that category. Noble Team is meant to be a band of sidekicks, essentially, who are important to you, but also not important to you. The problem I found was that, even though Noble Team gets the service of quasi-lead roles in Reach, they’re even less fleshed out than characters in support roles in previous games. When Jorge dies, you’ve spent a few levels with him barely even being there. That’s not enough screen time. When Kat dies, it sucks, but you didn’t really know her that well. When Carter dies, I’m not too bothered. When Emile dies, I straight-up don’t care. Emile, specifically, is a prime example of why Noble Team is so mediocre. That guy is a bundle of one-liners wrapped up in Spartan digs. In my eyes, he had no role in the game. He didn’t have any combat specialty, he was practically useless as far as gameplay went, and again, he never said anything more effective than “I’m ready! How 'bout you?!” He was the pinnacle of a flat character. We have no idea who he actually is, and rather than going “Oh this guy is so cool” whenever he was on the battlefield, most of us go “You just stay there sniping with that shotgun Emile; I’ll do all the work. Don’t you worry.”

And most of Noble Team is more or less like that, to lesser degrees. Carter doesn’t feel stupid like Emile does, but he feels wholly uninteresting. Kat feels slightly interesting, but we never get to explore that; we just tag along for her ride. Jorge is easy to get attached to, but dies too quickly in the story. Finally, Jun is just the “eye in the sky” too much for him to do much more than deliver intelligence. He’s also a bundle of one-liners, but his feel a lot more stiff, compared to Emile’s flat. I believe this all boils down to game length. There are only nine short levels in Halo: Reach, and few of them have you anywhere or doing anything that’s even slightly sentimental to Noble Team. They’re also Spartans, meaning they’ll never say anything quite as awesome as “We regret the Corps just blew up our raggedy–Yoink- fleet!” And that’s another thing. Spartans are interesting but, for the most part, they’re kind of alien. They don’t think like humans do. If this weren’t a team of Spartan-IIIs (who tend to be less secluded) and was instead a team of Spartan-IIs, they would talk even less. Having a main team made up of just Spartans was a big mistake. They’ve got interesting interaction (in the books), but don’t let emotion or determination or wit show. The human characters always made up for that in previous Halo games.

Bottom line, we needed more ordinary human characters. Johnson was essential. We didn’t need him here, but somebody to take his place as the normal, wise-cracking and slightly fearful human. We needed a few of those, in fact. Point is, you just can’t replace them with Spartans. Cortana, Johnson, and Keyes always made for more interesting dialogue than Kat, Carter, and Jun. In addition to this supplement, the Spartans also needed more screen time. I think having them all survive until a final, epic battle wouldn’t have been a mistake. They could all die off in various ways in the last level, giving more time to get close to them.

But I just don’t think Noble Team were flat because of their roles in gameplay. It has everything to do with how quickly the characters were introduced, how they didn’t really express themselves, and how they all die off rather quickly.

9

I love this thread hehe, it’s been so funny to read these responses. The sad thing is, they’re all so true though. =\

10

I’m 100% certain that I would have less qualms with Noble Team’s actual impact (or the lack thereof) on gameplay if the characters were more likeable and interesting. It’s easier to forgive someone something if you like them. But my main concern is really their role, purpose, and use during the game and not their personalities.

As I’ve already said, I fully understand that Noble Team sucks in combat because if they didn’t, a lot of people (including me, admittedly) would most likely complain about them getting so many kills and basically “steal” them away from the player. But this in turn means that if NPC allies are with you, they should be inferior to you and not supposed to be on par.

That’s why the Marines and ODSTs alongside Master Chief are perfectly fine. They aren’t augmented soldiers wearing hi-tech armor, they’re normal and - comparatively - weak human beings. They are inferior. You don’t expect them to take out more than maybe one or two opponents, and it feels natural and normal that they show not much if any initiative, basically just follow you around, and eventually get killed or stay behind and stop following you.

But if your NPC allies are Spartan IIIs just as you are, and you’re not even their leader but basically “the new guy”, you somehow expect them to live up to that and be more useful than your generic Marine allies. And that’s the whole problem.

If you force NPC allies upon the player and don’t want them to be of much if any use in combat, make them inferior. Make them Marines, ODSTs, security personell, and so on. Don’t make them the player’s equals because the discrepancy between what they should be able to do and what they’re actually doing just feels awkward.

11

> As for the actual characters of Noble Team, they indeed are shallow and soulless. So much so, in fact, that I just don’t give a damn about them. Kat is the only exception due to her being so utterly obnoxious.

I liked June, he was cool, some what quite, but he needed more AI coding, cause as a sniper he shouldn’t of been on the front line with Six, he should of been on a cliff, sniping. And I think NPCs should be able to trade weapons with you, cause there are times when I wanted to give some of Noble Team some heavy weapons, like I do for none NPC AIs, so they can do some real damage.

12

Noble Team was worthless in every way possible. They contributed nothing to the storyline, they contributed nothing to the gameplay, they contributed nothing to the tone of the game… I fully agree with you, OP. Also:

> I don’t know how often it happened that a Covie was engaged in combat with someone else and turned around to shoot me the moment I popped out of cover. I didn’t even shot that Covie yet or threw a grenade. All I did was to move into his view. Well, that’s not entirely true; I didn’t move into his view because I WAS BEHIND HIM!

On higher difficulties, the AI cheat. If you see them, they instantly see you. (When speedrunning, always avert your gaze. If they’re on-screen for even a moment, expect depleted shields.)

13

> And I think NPCs should be able to trade weapons with you, cause there are times when I wanted to give some of Noble Team some heavy weapons, like I do for none NPC AIs, so they can do some real damage.

The only real damage Noble would do with heavy weapons would be damage to the back of your skull. As many an unfortunate player has found out when attempting to assassinate an enemy on Nightfall while being escorted by Jun…

Kat with a Rocket Launcher. Kat. The one that drives directly off of cliffs like it’s her job. The one that can’t fight, drive, or really do anything worth a damn. Holding a Rocket Launcher. Scary thought.

14

Its sad but true how useless Noble team really is, as well as the flat, boring and dull characters they are with no character development to begin with. But then again, we have to take into account that being part of a team is a new concept to halo players as we are used to playing as the Chief in a “Lone wolf” role with only a few odd marines or ODST’s as help instead of being part of a team of invincible supersoldiers. We also have to take into account that Bungie couldn’t make Noble team kill too many, or the game would be easy because the player could just sit back and let Noble team deal with the enemies but they couldn’t make them too useless either. Its a shame they turned out the way they did.

As I said before, they also completely lacked character development, they had no history and we just didn’t care about them. They didn’t even feel like halo characters.

15

This is one of the biggest problems I had with reach’s campaign, I don’t care about noble team in the slightest.
In Halo 3 on the Covenant mission when I get to the part where the elites arrive, despite the fact that they aren’t actual characters, I care more about them than I do with noble team, I always arm them with the best weapons, and they put them to good use, I had an elite major with a Fuel rod cannon with me throughout the whole mission after that, I took him on my gauss hog and then onto my hornet and he was a great ally, because they can actually be killed, you tend to be a little more cautious and try to protect them, and this was just a random elite compared to what were supposed to be significant characters.

16

> Kat with a Rocket Launcher. Kat. The one that drives directly off of cliffs like it’s her job. The one that can’t fight, drive, or really do anything worth a damn. Holding a Rocket Launcher. Scary thought.

I soooo agree with that. By now I’ve been betrayed by Kat about half a dozen times because she thinks it’s fine to spam her magnum into the back of my head when my shields are down and I happen to be between her and an opponent.

I still remember when I played through the campaign on legendary for the first time; first battle on the beach during the LNoS mission. My shields were down thanks to a Grunt getting a lucky shot with an overcharged plasma pistol. I ran for cover, heard Kat’s magnum, and dropped dead. And that happened TWICE IN A ROW!

Another reason why I hate Kat. And I just don’t hate Kat, I HATE KAT!!! >:(

changes from MLG-style hyperventilation back to normal breathing

> This is one of the biggest problems I had with reach’s campaign, I don’t care about noble team in the slightest.
> In Halo 3 on the Covenant mission when I get to the part where the elites arrive, despite the fact that they aren’t actual characters, I care more about them than I do with noble team, I always arm them with the best weapons, and they put them to good use, I had an elite major with a Fuel rod cannon with me throughout the whole mission after that, I took him on my gauss hog and then onto my hornet and he was a great ally, because they can actually be killed, you tend to be a little more cautious and try to protect them, and this was just a random elite compared to what were supposed to be significant characters.

Ditto. Last time I played through that mission I spent five minutes running around picking up FRGs and other powerful weapons to give them to the Elites. And you know what? THEY GOT KILLS WITH THEM! gasp

17

I have to say, I liked the way they did stuff in ODST since i could give them better weapons so they could help me better. but with REACH they are all useless

18

I fully agree that your NPC allies in ODST are a lot more useful. They still aren’t on par with the player even though they ought to be seeing as they are ODSTs as well, but you could improve their performance a lot by giving them better weapons.

As I’ve said before, giving Mickey a rocket launcher during ONI Alpha Site is the best thing you can do. He even hits those pesky buggers with it that attack you while taking the elevator up to the roof, which is usually the point where I’m most likely to die when playing that mission on legendary. And he can even take out the hammer-wielding Brute quite easily.

19

The implementation of Noble Team really is the weak point of the Reach campaign. Bungie so obviously wanted everyone to become invested in Noble Team and their actions. But honestly? The player barely interacts with Noble Team in cutscene or in gameplay. Something REALLY needs to be reiterated.

As a player you can’t just tell me to care about my A.I. compatriots. You got to make me like them.

The only member of Noble Team whose existance was even warranted was Jorge. He’s the only guy I cared about and then Bungie saw fit to kill HIM off first.

That’s one of the things that the Halo 2 campaign did do well. All the Marines I fought with in Halo 2 were awesome, despite their vulnerability. Not only were they more interesting sounding, but in actually watching their combat performance, I realized that the Halo 2 Marines were far more combat effective than Noble Team.

Think about it. Corporal Perez, my 5’4 Mexican Jarhead with barely any english skills was a more elite operator than anyone on Noble Team.

20

I could go into their characters, but that would take up more then one post. AI Noble Team in gameplay are terrible. Don’t let Kat drive. Emile can’t shoot Banshees with his shotgun. Jun, for a sniper, likes to run and gun. Carter just stands there at The Package. And Jorge, while having a machine gun, is also, for some reason, completely useless.

The only AI, I think Bungie had right one were the Elites in Halo 2 during the Arbiter levels. They actually killed things.