Why I don’t think HI coatings should have a toggle

I know I’m probably gonna catch flak for this, but it’s an opinion I want to stand by. Armor and weapon coatings shouldn’t have an MCC-style toggle in Halo Infinite, regardless of how silly they might look. I have no doubt that 343 won’t add one, due to the nature of the game being free-to-play, but you never know. I also don’t believe that anyone here seriously thinks goofy coatings ‘break immersion’. It’s a cop-out argument. Spartans that don hot pink armor aren’t immersive either, but that doesn’t stop players from choosing it as their primary color. Do we ask for a toggle that turns everyone into a dull grey? Well, maybe somebody does… but I think the majority of the community would laugh at the suggestion of a color toggle. The point is: if a player has worked hard for a coating, they deserve to have it be seen. You don’t have to like it. The MCC/Halo 3 ‘original aesthetic’ logic doesn’t apply here either. Feel free to call me out if I’m wrong, and I’ll keep an open mind to y’all’s counterarguments. This is just the way I see it right now.

Considering all the design choices made just to accommodate the coating system i would not expect it to have one.
Seems extremely counter to many of the platforms choices and monetization model

I don’t think they should have toggles either. If I’m going to customize my spartan and someone can just turn it off then it minimizes it.

Are people really arguing for a “Red vs. Blue” toggle? That’s stupid.

Butt hurt competitive players are just concerned they’re not going to be able to distinguish friends from foes, and the reality is this is going to be a thing that is going to get tweaked to the end of the earth until it is both nonintrusive and clearly legible.

The only thing I can maybe understand is flagging certain skins or coatings as “goofy” cosmetics that can be turned off with a toggle. (Like, to a certain extent, I can understand pro players not wanting to pick up pizza-skinned battle rifles.)

Regardless, I don’t think it’s something 343i should bother with unless there’s serious pressure for it, and even then, only in a limited way.

This is the kind of thing that’s not worth bothering with until the game’s out.

I don’t expect one given the monetization aspects of the game.

However were they to add one I would not be upset. I may use it on occasion but didn’t plan to, however I would never say no to more options.

Especially options other players may be asking for that I myself may not want, I still want those players to have as much accessibility as possible.

Understand your argument, OP, but I take exception to the idea that everyone who dislikes loud and exuberantly (unrealistically) colorful armor colors and skins is employing a “cop out,” argument when they say it’s a bit of an immersion breaker. After all, for every player who wants to rock a ridiculous, bright coating, there will be a player who attempts to make their armor look functional and subdued. Neither approach is, IMO, more or less valid than the other, but clearly proponents of either might take exception to the other as it actively juxtaposes their own preference.

As to whether there ought to be a toggle? Probably not, I’d concede. But I absolutely understand why some players would be frustrated by distractingly loud skins becoming terribly common in multiplayer, especially outside of casual playlists.

Again, I tend to agree that the freedom of player expression should overpower other players’ possible distaste for your aesthetic, but I wouldn’t go so far as suggesting anyone who feels differently is copping out with a strawman argument. There are concrete reasons and an understandable logic behind the opposition, whether you agree with it or not.

I don’t think there should be a toggle. It’s a waste of resources and unnecessary, it’s kind of a spit in the face for the people who worked hard on the coatings and stuff too. At least imo

I don’t mind what we’ve got going so far. So hot pink Spartans have never bothered me and none of the current Armor Coatings currently bother me. The only time I will be bothered is when it’s extremely obnoxious. Like a constant moving rainbow spartan that hurts my eyes because it’s bright and colorful and moves. Or say a Pizza coated Spartan. I love me some pizza. But homie running around bright yellow with red dots and calling it pizza like in H5 will stand out too much from the norm (just regular color combos) that to me, would always be jarring. Not saying skins like these will make it in, but if they do, I definitely will react negatively as some of those skins can be so distracting in my opinion. Oh gosh… It’d be really bad if there was a spartan coated up like a journal from a supermarket with " LOL " and " LMAO " or " TTYL " stickers slapped all over it with lightning bolts. But, to be fair, I’m going to the extreme.

So far, the argument of immersion doesn’t have any evidence. Maybe if they actually show something that is silly/outlandish, but so far we haven’t seen anything of the sort.

I’m sure we will eventually get some questionably silly coatings, but it will take a lot to top the fire/lighting/stink/hearts armor effects that Halo Reach had.

Absolutely agreed. Asking for toggles for every minuscule feature is getting really tedious.
Just because 343i made some compromises in the MCC people started to feel entitled.

> 2535411993815954;1:
> I also don’t believe that anyone here seriously thinks goofy coatings ‘break immersion’. It’s a cop-out argument. Spartans that don hot pink armor aren’t immersive either, but that doesn’t stop players from choosing it as their primary color.

You’re basically telling other’s what they do, and do not experience.

Have you yourself looked up immersion? And what makes a game immersive? I have, and it’s not a simple subject.

Essentially, an immersive game is one with consistency, where the game has believable “rules” within its own universe, apart from being good of course. How believable it is in its own setting and rules.
It doesn’t need to be hyper realistic to be immersive, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Minecraft, Micro Racers and many many other “ridiculous” games have been immersive to me.
As far as I’ve understood though, the Yakuza series is a good franchise, but it has some really immersive breaking moments. Its main story is extremely serious, but side missions are downright random and come from nowhere.

No, hot pink is perhaps not the most immersive color among Spartan Super Soldiers serving in the Navy / Army whatever, but given that there are a multitude of other similar looking colors of different hues, it’s not as immersion breaking as if there had only been dark hues which could serve as camouflage, and then hot pink, and only that.

Compare that to the Pizza and Fries skins in Halo 5, I wasn’t that fond of the more colorful “toy” skins either.
Not to mention, me not finding these things immersive, doesn’t mean I will use them.

Quite a few weren’t happy with the “dude-bro” spartans in the Halo 5 beta either.

> 2535411993815954;1:
> The point is: if a player has worked hard for a coating, they deserve to have it be seen.

I would argue that hard earned coats are probably not going to be silly looking.
We’re most likely not going to see a difficult achievement only for the coat to be bright pink with red hearts and cupid.
Or that pressing “buy” on a 2€ coat constitutes as “hard earned”.

Ultimately, would you care, or even notice, if two or three players per match, had coats disabled for themselves?

Edit: feels like this.

> 2806037446402987;9:
> So far, the argument of immersion doesn’t have any evidence. Maybe if they actually show something that is silly/outlandish, but so far we haven’t seen anything of the sort.

Maybe because “immersion” isn’t quantifiable?
It’s quite difficult to say how “immersive” a game is, as that varies from person to person.

Not having seen any yet is no sign of a complete lack of such skins, it’s a ten year promise.

How would you describe immersion, and what kind of “proof” would you be able to gather with that?

> 2535411993815954;1:
> I know I’m probably gonna catch flak for this, but it’s an opinion I want to stand by. Armor and weapon coatings shouldn’t have an MCC-style toggle in Halo Infinite, regardless of how silly they might look. I have no doubt that 343 won’t add one, due to the nature of the game being free-to-play, but you never know. I also don’t believe that anyone here seriously thinks goofy coatings ‘break immersion’. It’s a cop-out argument. Spartans that don hot pink armor aren’t immersive either, but that doesn’t stop players from choosing it as their primary color. Do we ask for a toggle that turns everyone into a dull grey? Well, maybe somebody does… but I think the majority of the community would laugh at the suggestion of a color toggle. The point is: if a player has worked hard for a coating, they deserve to have it be seen. You don’t have to like it. The MCC/Halo 3 ‘original aesthetic’ logic doesn’t apply here either. Feel free to call me out if I’m wrong, and I’ll keep an open mind to y’all’s counterarguments. This is just the way I see it right now.

See part of this stems from the idea of what what Call of Duty currently does, which is with all the weapon packs that show off new operators and weapon skins. The idea is that you take player A, and this player has a cool armor set/coating that player B doesnt have yet because they havent bought the battle pass, so player B goes and buys the battle pass because they want to get the armor coating/set thus generating revenue. This is a subtle way of marketing the season pass in game, but I do applaud them for allowing you to never lose the battle pass after the season ends.

I could see the argument for a toggle if the color outline system is problematic (I think it’ll be fine), but I think it’s premature to call for one. Watching a video of someone playing and playing it for yourself are such different experiences that we won’t really know how good of a system it is until we are able to try it out for ourselves.

There doesn’t need to be a toggle, I fully agree OP.

I haven’t seen anyone ask for a toggle for coatings. Skins on the other hand should have a toggle. Pink armor is one thing, but a pizza scorpion is another. I agree armor coatings shouldn’t have a toggle so long as there isn’t a pizza armor coating or something like that, but skins absolutely should.

> 2533274795123910;11:
> You’re basically telling other’s what they do, and do not experience.

That wasn’t my intention, but I can see why it seems that way. The only problem I have is that people expect the game to cater to their individual desires. A weapon skin toggle might help repair the immersion for some, but where does the line get drawn? There’s always going to be something that someone doesn’t like.

> 2533274795123910;11:
> Compare that to the Pizza and Fries skins in Halo 5, I wasn’t that fond of the more colorful “toy” skins either.

Again, this just boils down to your preference. 343’s job is to please the community as a whole. The only reason a toggle was added for the goofy Halo 3 armors in MCC is because a large chunk of players felt like they ruined the game’s original aesthetic.

> 2533274795123910;11:
> Quite a few weren’t happy with the “dude-bro” spartans in the Halo 5 beta either.

Again, personal preference. I liked those animations because it made the Spartan-IVs feel more human than the S-IIIs and S-IIs, since that’s how they were designed to be. Did 343 cave to what I personally wanted, since I found those animations a little immersive? No, and that’s okay.

> 2533274795123910;11:
> I would argue that hard earned coats are probably not going to be silly looking.

None of us know what earned weapon coatings are going to look like. 343 added the Fire Unicorn AR skin (awarded for being featured in the Community Spotlight) to Halo 5, and I personally think it looks goofy.

> 2533274795123910;11:
> Ultimately, would you care, or even notice, if two or three players per match, had coats disabled for themselves?

I would notice (I’d just assume they’re new to the game), but no, I wouldn’t care. Other people’s preferences don’t break my immersion. I just personally don’t think those preferences need to be met by the developers.

The thing is - you will never know what players who applied it see.
You will only see what you want to see.

> 2535411993815954;16:
> That wasn’t my intention, but I can see why it seems that way. The only problem I have is that people expect the game to cater to their individual desires. A weapon skin toggle might help repair the immersion for some, but where does the line get drawn? There’s always going to be something that someone doesn’t like.

Unfortunately that’s what’s happening though. Immersion is a personal experience, and you call it a cop-out.
Everyone wants the game to cater to their individual desires, I’m not here for anyone else and neither are you.

Of course there’s something that someone doesn’t like, that’s always been the case, and yes, the line will be drawn somewhere.
That’s not to say those concerned can’t, or shouldn’t speak up about their issues.

> 2535411993815954;16:
> Again, this just boils down to your preference. 343’s job is to please the community as a whole. The only reason a toggle was added for the goofy Halo 3 armors in MCC is because a large chunk of players felt like they ruined the game’s original aesthetic.

And part of the immersion you’re experiencing.
Of course it does, and that way, you can’t say something doesn’t break immersion for others, if it doesn’t do that for you.

> 2535411993815954;16:
> Again, personal preference. I liked those animations because it made the Spartan-IVs feel more human than the S-IIIs and S-IIs, since that’s how they were designed to be. Did 343 cave to what I personally wanted, since I found those animations a little immersive? No, and that’s okay.

And again, immersion.

> 2535411993815954;16:
> None of us know what earned weapon coatings are going to look like. 343 added the Fire Unicorn AR skin (awarded for being featured in the Community Spotlight) to Halo 5, and I personally think it looks goofy.

Interesting, though I’d chalk that up to a special skin for other circumstances than actual gameplay, and maybe not the actual goal of people being featured.
But no, we don’t, however given previous records, and how most other game treat specific “end game” goals and rewards, it’s fairly certain there won’t be, more than a few, at most, goofy / ridiculous, hard to achieve coats.

> 2535411993815954;16:
> I would notice (I’d just assume they’re new to the game), but no, I wouldn’t care. Other people’s preferences don’t break my immersion. I just personally don’t think those preferences need to be met by the developers.

Well, only if their own coats were disabled to you.
No I don’t imagine that would be the case, as their preferences and what kind of immersion they’re experiencing can’t be telegraphed to you. Feelings aren’t transmittable.
Now, if you wouldn’t be able to notice, and you don’t care, why shouldn’t those wishes need to be met?

Its a new game, not an older one. Thats the only argument you need

We’ve dealt with Spartans in bright colors in every game, dealt with ridiculous emblem combinations in most games, and even dealt with fart clouds, flaming heads, and hearts with wings coming off dead Spartans in Reach.

People lived with it. They can continue to live with it now.