It dawned on me that there should have been some Spartans that went through the hardships of the Reach program that were so jaded, and damaged, by the process that they would eventually buck the system that created them. In all the years of the Reach program (in all it’s iterations) there should have been at least one Spartan that fell through the cracks, and broke completely when hitting rock bottom. There’s a really cool element to have a veteran Spartan somewhere in the cosmos making moves to destroy the people, and the system that created him/her.
> 2533274913725151;1:
> It dawned on me that there should have been some Spartans that went through the hardships of the Reach program that were so jaded, and damaged, by the process that they would eventually buck the system that created them. In all the years of the Reach program (in all it’s iterations) there should have been at least one Spartan that fell through the cracks, and broke completely when hitting rock bottom. There’s a really cool element to have a veteran Spartan somewhere in the cosmos making moves to destroy the people, and the system that created him/her.
I know several Spartan IVs have gone bad, but thats a totally different kettle of fish. Off the top of my head I don’t remember any IIs going off the rails.
I’m not sure where I stand on this, on one hand it would be cool to have a rogue Spartan II antagonist, but on the other hand I kind of like the implication that Master Chief’s Spartan class are bascially incorruptible super soliders, whereas IIIs were unstable cannon fodder and IVs just the mas produced ODST-on-steroids if you will.
Who knows, it could still happen, even with already established characters! Naomi for example, who’s dad acted against the UEG/UNSC, could seek revenge or something. Honestly at this stage I think I’d prefer that sort of stuff was left to the (inferior?) Spartan IVs!
I don’t know. I don’t like the idea that these scientists could knock a home-run out of the park on the first go around. I’m thinking that there were several failed attempts (and a few near misses) that happened prior to the established Spartan program. Like there had to be a precursor (some unnamed program) where they knocked out the bugs, and ironed out the kinks in order to create a class like the one Master Chief was in.
> 2533274913725151;3:
> I don’t know. I don’t like the idea that these scientists could knock a home-run out of the park on the first go around. I’m thinking that there were several failed attempts (and a few near misses) that happened prior to the established Spartan program. Like there had to be a precursor (some unnamed program) where they knocked out the bugs, and ironed out the kinks in order to create a class like the one Master Chief was in.
I would say that falls to the Orion (Spartan I) programme, of which Johnson was a member! But you’re right, even considering the Orion efforts you would think that there would have been a lot more issues than just physical deformities from the augmentation process. Let’s be honest, child soldiers are hardly likely to become well rounded, stable people.
The romantic part of me wants the Spartan-IIs to remain pure.
The pragmatic part however, just cannot be ignored. You would definitely imagine at least a few of these Spartan-IIs that would end up evil or just straight up insane. Its even been implied that the Master Chief is sociopathic and unstable, so if HE is, imagine was a lesser person could end up like?
This is definitely an interesting topic that I would love to see expanded upon outside of the main games.
Who knows, maybe Grey Team in Halo: Envoy could fill this role? We shall find out very soon!
> 2533274838073795;4:
> > 2533274913725151;3:
> > I don’t know. I don’t like the idea that these scientists could knock a home-run out of the park on the first go around. I’m thinking that there were several failed attempts (and a few near misses) that happened prior to the established Spartan program. Like there had to be a precursor (some unnamed program) where they knocked out the bugs, and ironed out the kinks in order to create a class like the one Master Chief was in.
>
> I would say that falls to the Orion (Spartan I) programme, of which Johnson was a member! But you’re right, even considering the Orion efforts you would think that there would have been a lot more issues than just physical deformities from the augmentation process. Let’s be honest, child soldiers are hardly likely to become well rounded, stable people.
> The romantic part of me wants the Spartan-IIs to remain pure.
> The pragmatic part however, just cannot be ignored. You would definitely imagine at least a few of these Spartan-IIs that went evil or just straight up insane. Its even been implied that the Master Chief is sociopathic and unstable, so if HE is, imagine was a lesser person could end up doing?
> This is definitely an interesting topic that I would love to see expanded upon outside of the main games.
> Who knows, maybe Grey Team in Halo: Envoy could fill this role? We shall find out very soon!
I hope that it does too. There’s something both scary and exciting about playing against a Spartan that has no moral code, or stabilization to “keep them in line”. All of the destructive power that was aimed at the Covenant…amplified and unleashed on anyone that gets in their way. I would buy that right now. lol
There technically has been one Spartan-II that defected, and that was Soren-066. He was crippled by the augmentations, which left him somewhat mentally broken (seeing as his one purpose in life, fighting, was no longer possible). He was seduced by an insurrectionist that had infiltrated the UNSC and joined up. Unfortunately, he was discovered, and when trying to escape in a Longsword, he was shot down. No body was found however.
Back on topic: I think the reason no Spartan-II has gone “bad” is because:
- They were thoroughly brainwashed and raised by a woman that actually care for their well being.
- They were never confronted with a reason to question their view of the world, especially once the Covenant War began.
Simply put, they never had a reason to doubt what they were raised on. Randal-037 went MIA during the War, and was given this chance. He met outer colonists and reshaped his view of the galaxy. He didn’t go “bad”, but he lost any love he had for the UNSC, choosing instead to live out his life on the colony of Sedra with his daughter.
> 2533274913725151;5:
> > 2533274838073795;4:
> > > 2533274913725151;3:
> > > I don’t know. I don’t like the idea that these scientists could knock a home-run out of the park on the first go around. I’m thinking that there were several failed attempts (and a few near misses) that happened prior to the established Spartan program. Like there had to be a precursor (some unnamed program) where they knocked out the bugs, and ironed out the kinks in order to create a class like the one Master Chief was in.
> >
> > I would say that falls to the Orion (Spartan I) programme, of which Johnson was a member! But you’re right, even considering the Orion efforts you would think that there would have been a lot more issues than just physical deformities from the augmentation process. Let’s be honest, child soldiers are hardly likely to become well rounded, stable people.
> > The romantic part of me wants the Spartan-IIs to remain pure.
> > The pragmatic part however, just cannot be ignored. You would definitely imagine at least a few of these Spartan-IIs that went evil or just straight up insane. Its even been implied that the Master Chief is sociopathic and unstable, so if HE is, imagine was a lesser person could end up doing?
> > This is definitely an interesting topic that I would love to see expanded upon outside of the main games.
> > Who knows, maybe Grey Team in Halo: Envoy could fill this role? We shall find out very soon!
>
> I hope that it does too. There’s something both scary and exciting about playing against a Spartan that has no moral code, or stabilization to “keep them in line”. All of the destructive power that was aimed at the Covenant…amplified and unleashed on anyone that gets in their way. I would buy that right now. lol
That would make a great ODST style spin off! Maybe even actually as an ODST/marine (or hey, even an Elite, that way all the people who want playable Elites get an entire game lol), because then you’d get to experience the horror of fighting a Spartan II not only as a human, but a regular, unaugmented human. That could be epic, but I worry that the gameplay wouldn’t work in Halo vs humans.
Might have to be something for the extended lore, but it does need to happen.
> 2533274813012755;6:
> There technically has been one Spartan-II that defected, and that was Soren-066. He was crippled by the augmentations, which left him somewhat mentally broken (seeing as his one purpose in life, fighting, was no longer possible). He was seduced by an insurrectionist that had infiltrated the UNSC and joined up. Unfortunately, he was discovered, and when trying to escape in a Longsword, he was shot down. No body was found however.
>
> Back on topic: I think the reason no Spartan-II has gone “bad” is because:
> 1. They were thoroughly brainwashed and raised by a woman that actually care for their well being.
> 2. They were never confronted with a reason to question their view of the world, especially once the Covenant War began.
>
> Simply put, they never had a reason to doubt what they were raised on. Randal-037 went MIA during the War, and was given this chance. He met outer colonists and reshaped his view of the galaxy. He didn’t go “bad”, but he lost any love he had for the UNSC, choosing instead to live out his life on the colony of Sedra with his daughter.
Aaah I forgot about Soren! Maybe the Longsword was a diversion and he escapes? Lol its a stretch but I just think it would be cool to hunt down a rogue Spartan as an ODST or something to make it more menacing etc!
As always this is why I love your input, didn’t remember most of that stuff to be honest and it is very convincing, the indoctrination started so early and with such ferocity that maybe there’s almost no way they CAN snap out of it, even if they wanted to. Which, judging on the way they were raised, they don’t!
> 2533274813012755;6:
> There technically has been one Spartan-II that defected, and that was Soren-066. He was crippled by the augmentations, which left him somewhat mentally broken (seeing as his one purpose in life, fighting, was no longer possible). He was seduced by an insurrectionist that had infiltrated the UNSC and joined up. Unfortunately, he was discovered, and when trying to escape in a Longsword, he was shot down. No body was found however.
>
> Back on topic: I think the reason no Spartan-II has gone “bad” is because:
> 1. They were thoroughly brainwashed and raised by a woman that actually care for their well being.
> 2. They were never confronted with a reason to question their view of the world, especially once the Covenant War began.
>
> Simply put, they never had a reason to doubt what they were raised on. Randal-037 went MIA during the War, and was given this chance. He met outer colonists and reshaped his view of the galaxy. He didn’t go “bad”, but he lost any love he had for the UNSC, choosing instead to live out his life on the colony of Sedra with his daughter.
That’s true, but realistically speaking…the ravages of war can change a person. The cosmos are too massive to not have any spartans NOT be effected by the stuff that they’ve seen. There’s also the possibility that some of the children were only “playing the part” in order to not be the nail that sticks out too much. Not all of the children in the Spartan program were orphaned, some were taken from their homes…and that can cause a lot of resentment. I think that there had to at least be one that made their way through the program and made it to the other side while harboring all of those memories, and the emotions that come with them. There has/had to be a spartan that “played the part” long enough for them to be in a position to do something about it.
> 2533274838073795;7:
> > 2533274913725151;5:
> > > 2533274838073795;4:
> > > > 2533274913725151;3:
> > > > I don’t know. I don’t like the idea that these scientists could knock a home-run out of the park on the first go around. I’m thinking that there were several failed attempts (and a few near misses) that happened prior to the established Spartan program. Like there had to be a precursor (some unnamed program) where they knocked out the bugs, and ironed out the kinks in order to create a class like the one Master Chief was in.
> > >
> > > I would say that falls to the Orion (Spartan I) programme, of which Johnson was a member! But you’re right, even considering the Orion efforts you would think that there would have been a lot more issues than just physical deformities from the augmentation process. Let’s be honest, child soldiers are hardly likely to become well rounded, stable people.
> > > The romantic part of me wants the Spartan-IIs to remain pure.
> > > The pragmatic part however, just cannot be ignored. You would definitely imagine at least a few of these Spartan-IIs that went evil or just straight up insane. Its even been implied that the Master Chief is sociopathic and unstable, so if HE is, imagine was a lesser person could end up doing?
> > > This is definitely an interesting topic that I would love to see expanded upon outside of the main games.
> > > Who knows, maybe Grey Team in Halo: Envoy could fill this role? We shall find out very soon!
> >
> > I hope that it does too. There’s something both scary and exciting about playing against a Spartan that has no moral code, or stabilization to “keep them in line”. All of the destructive power that was aimed at the Covenant…amplified and unleashed on anyone that gets in their way. I would buy that right now. lol
>
> That would make a great ODST style spin off! Maybe even actually as an ODST/marine (or hey, even an Elite, that way all the people who want playable Elites get an entire game lol), because then you’d get to experience the horror of fighting a Spartan II not only as a human, but a regular, unaugmented human. That could be epic, but I worry that the gameplay wouldn’t work in Halo vs humans.
> Might have to be something for the extended lore, but it does need to happen.
Or maybe as a Spartan IV that’s not fully converted, they are slightly more resilient than an ODST but not nearly strong enough to handle a regular Spartan, let alone an “evil” Spartan.
I’m not sure if he was a Spartan but Micky betrayed the unsc and tried to kill Buck
> 2533274913725151;9:
> > 2533274813012755;6:
> > There technically has been one Spartan-II that defected, and that was Soren-066. He was crippled by the augmentations, which left him somewhat mentally broken (seeing as his one purpose in life, fighting, was no longer possible). He was seduced by an insurrectionist that had infiltrated the UNSC and joined up. Unfortunately, he was discovered, and when trying to escape in a Longsword, he was shot down. No body was found however.
> >
> > Back on topic: I think the reason no Spartan-II has gone “bad” is because:
> > 1. They were thoroughly brainwashed and raised by a woman that actually care for their well being.
> > 2. They were never confronted with a reason to question their view of the world, especially once the Covenant War began.
> >
> > Simply put, they never had a reason to doubt what they were raised on. Randal-037 went MIA during the War, and was given this chance. He met outer colonists and reshaped his view of the galaxy. He didn’t go “bad”, but he lost any love he had for the UNSC, choosing instead to live out his life on the colony of Sedra with his daughter.
>
> That’s true, but realistically speaking…the ravages of war can change a person. The cosmos are too massive to not have any spartans NOT be effected by the stuff that they’ve seen. There’s also the possibility that some of the children were only “playing the part” in order to not be the nail that sticks out too much. Not all of the children in the Spartan program were orphaned, some were taken from their homes…and that can cause a lot of resentment. I think that there had to at least be one that made their way through the program and made it to the other side while harboring all of those memories, and the emotions that come with them. There has/had to be a spartan that “played the part” long enough for them to be in a position to do something about it.
The closest we have to that are Gray Team, a group of 3 Spartans that showed themselves to be quite independent during training, and remained that way post- augmentation.
> 2533274971565732;11:
> I’m not sure if he was a Spartan but Micky betrayed the unsc and tried to kill Buck
He was, but a Spartan-IV; a human made into a Spartan, rather than a child, like the S-IIs and IIIs.
His turning traitor is half the reason the previous Spartan generations were started so young; indoctorination.
> 2533274813012755;6:
> There technically has been one Spartan-II that defected, and that was Soren-066. He was crippled by the augmentations, which left him somewhat mentally broken (seeing as his one purpose in life, fighting, was no longer possible). He was seduced by an insurrectionist that had infiltrated the UNSC and joined up. Unfortunately, he was discovered, and when trying to escape in a Longsword, he was shot down. No body was found however.
>
> Back on topic: I think the reason no Spartan-II has gone “bad” is because:
> 1. They were thoroughly brainwashed and raised by a woman that actually care for their well being.
> 2. They were never confronted with a reason to question their view of the world, especially once the Covenant War began.
>
> Simply put, they never had a reason to doubt what they were raised on. Randal-037 went MIA during the War, and was given this chance. He met outer colonists and reshaped his view of the galaxy. He didn’t go “bad”, but he lost any love he had for the UNSC, choosing instead to live out his life on the colony of Sedra with his daughter.
theres also the 2 that committed suicide.
Wait, wasn’t there in Hunt the Truth season 2 an Insurrectionist leader who was a former Spartan II? Some sort of crazy, ruthless ultra strong woman?
> 2535435616191030;15:
> Wait, wasn’t there in Hunt the Truth season 2 an Insurrectionist leader who was a former Spartan II? Some sort of crazy, ruthless ultra strong woman?
Ilsa Zane. She was from the experimental Spartan IV trials, when they were attempting to make armorless Spartan IVs with the strength and resilience of armored Spartans.
> 2533274817408735;16:
> > 2535435616191030;15:
> > Wait, wasn’t there in Hunt the Truth season 2 an Insurrectionist leader who was a former Spartan II? Some sort of crazy, ruthless ultra strong woman?
>
> Ilsa Zane. She was from the experimental Spartan IV trials, when they were attempting to make armorless Spartan IVs with the strength and resilience of armored Spartans.
Oh, ok. It’s been awhile since I’ve listened to it.
Brainwashed or not, I would have liked the Spartans (especially S-IIs) more if more of them showed flaws, whether that be in their skill, their mental state, or their attitude. Them being “perfect” soldiers really makes them hard to relate to, even though I 100% understand the lore explanation for the low possibility of defection, dissent, and questioning of authority. Characters who show cracks in their facade are always the more interesting, and the ones I tend to care about more. Which is why the implications of the Master Chief’s “defection” in Halo 5 had promise…until we saw how the game actually turned out (ugh).
There are a few examples of Spartan-IIs that abandoned the UNSC(but did not become hostile against them), And of course, there are also Spartans that got back at the UNSC/ONI in their own way - such as Admiral Serin Osman, head of ONI(previously Serin-019), who for obvious reason is treated mostly as an antagonist in the series.
The best example of a Spartan that completely became hostile to the UNSC comes from the Spartan-IV program, Ilsa Zane. Otherwise, no known Spartan-IIs went strongly against the UNSC or ONI - they were too indoctrinated.
In the book “Halo fractures” there’s a short story “breaking strain” where a rogue spartan III is encountered, Kevin A282. He’s more of a deserter but I don’t want to give away or spoil what happens but, if you would like to read it, it’s an interesting story.