Why Halo: Reach's forge > Halo 4's forge

Just to start out, I’d like to assure you that I know what I’m talking about. I’ve been forging since the release of Halo 3, and I’ve made over a hundred maps in Halo 3 and Reach. I’ve had my maps featured on THFE, RoosterTeeth, and even on here. I know what I’m talking about. This is a list of all of the things that make Halo 4’s Forge mode inferior to Reach’s. I’m not trying to make anyone mad, I’m just trying to get 343’s attention so that they can hopefully either fix these issues in Halo 4 or remedy them in Halo 5. Please don’t troll this thread.

1- Halo Reach had a much better forging environment.

I didn’t even like Forge World all that much to begin with, as there was only one type of scenery on the entire map. However, at least the map was big enough to allow players to make a large variety of maps, in Halo 4 the maps are either too small in general or lack good forging spaces. Here, I’ll show you. Forge World’s good forging spaces included but were not limited to: The island, the cave, the quarry, the canyon (long ways), the canyon (short ways), Montana, Alaska, that overhang next to the waterfall, in the air, the coliseum, that one spot over the cave in the canyon, and the massive amount of space over the ocean. In Halo 4? Well, Impact has one decently sized rock and the air, Erosion has the air and the coliseum, and Ravine is just terrible. Why can’t we just have another big map like Sandbox? With a giant desert, a massive sky bubble, and a crypt?

2- Same palette, harder to look at and more issues.

I’d hoped that 343 would hear the cries of the forgers from Halo Reach, who’ve been asking for a new Forge palette since the beginning of 2011. Why can’t each map have a unique palette again? Like Foundry and Sandbox? Hell, Forge World’s palette may have been bad but at least the shape of the pieces made sense, the blocks were perfect squares, whereas in Halo 4 they’re irregularly shaped on the sides. Why even do that? It makes it next to impossible to make a floor without bumps, holes, or Z-fighting. This decision made no sense at all. Not only are the pieces more obnoxious to use, they’re more obnoxious to look at. Sure, grey is a boring color to look at, but white? White objects onscreen straight up assault your retinas, especially when every item you’re looking at is white.

3- Magnets don’t work.

Yep, arguably the most shown off tool added to Forge isn’t functional. How so? Well, the magnets are only designed to line up objects with the same object and occasionally a few others. And not even that’s reliable, some objects don’t even line up correctly with the same object using the magnets. Take the Large Brace, you have to turn magnets off to line these things up because they aren’t placed symmetrically. That’s unacceptable.

4- Severe lack of Custom games and Custom options ruin forge maps.

What happened to Race, Invasion, Assault, and all of the other gametypes that were removed? What happened to actually being able to create new gametypes that felt really different from the core game? Halo’s longevity is mostly due to its community and Custom Games, you take that away and you’re losing a lot.

5- Every annoying glitch that was in Reach is still present in Halo 4.

Will every object on the map you just made tilt slightly when you save it? Probably. Will your save overwrite another map of yours? Possibly. Does the 90 degree snap finally work well? Hah! Good one. Well, does the 45 degree snap still work at least? Nope, that one got messed up. How did none of these issues get fixed?

6-Removal of vital features to Forge.

This is the one that I can’t for the life of me wrap my head around, Halo 4’s forge tools are a step forward only to be smacked in the face with a bus and shot back. Wait, scratch that, Halo 4’s added features aren’t even a step. It’s a gradual lean forward before getting hit with a bus. There is no reason, I repeat, no reason that the Precision editor should’ve been removed. That was one of if not the most useful tool in Reach, it allowed players to create smooth floors with no bumps or Z-fighting, allowed people to line up different types of objects near-perfectly, allowed players to make smooth racetracks, and much much more. Even if magnets were functional they wouldn’t be a worthy successor to the precision editor. Another thing, why take away the ability to zoom? There’s no reason for that, that’s a really simple and really useful ability.

7- It’s impossible to grab an item from anywhere but the center.

Self explanatory, this decision makes less than no sense.

8- No File Browser.

I don’t care if this is going to be added in later, it’s been two months. There is no excuse. This wouldn’t be so bad if we could view people’s file shares in the pre-game lobby Halo 3 style, but we can’t. Awesome. I’m really excited to make a map that no one can play.

I know what you mean with the magnets. If you look real close at the wall pieces on erosion you can see that the magnets are slightly off center on each side. This means that every time you connect a wall to a wall, it is about 1 coordinate off creating what I call a “stair effect”.

> I know what you mean with the magnets. If you look real close at the wall pieces on erosion you can see that the magnets are slightly off center on each side. This means that every time you connect a wall to a wall, it is about 1 coordinate off creating what I call a “stair effect”.

It’s not just on Erosion, it’s on every map that the magnets are messed up. Not to mention the fact that there are 2 magnets in almost the exact same spot on the 5x5 flat, it’s really frustrating to line those things up with magnets on.

only thing I agree with you about is the lack of precision tools and the slight shift when saving maps. Other than that I do not agree with anything else.

Forge worlds forge space was terrible for performance.

> only thing I agree with you about is the lack of precision tools and the slight shift when saving maps. Other than that I do not agree with anything else.
>
> Forge worlds forge space was terrible for performance.

You actually think that the palette in Halo 4 is better than Reach?

It’s good to see someone complaining about Forge that actually knows what they are talking about, however I’m surprised you even mentioned precision forging. I too picked up Forge in Halo 3. I wouldn’t say I made over a hundred maps but I have spent quite a few days in it, I would say that I too have quite some skill at forging. The precise Forging tool in Halo Reach was useless, never once was I properly able to align something with it. The ‘edit coordinate’ option when pressing B is all the precision you will ever need. And if that isn’t good enough a slight nudge on the analog stick will work. I do miss the ability to zoom while in editor mode, but its not game breaking.

The 90 degree snap I never trusted and I always felt it was too limiting, 45 degree is fine however, only at certain angles does it become a hassle but that can easily be worked around if you, again, use the edit coordinate tab while rotation snap is off.

If you truly are a fan of Forge then you cannot deny that the new features that have been added are great additions to the Forge. Aside from the Large Brace you mentioned Magnets are good for aligning every other object. And works well with the new duplicate button. Dynamic lighting is an invaluable new feature that has brought life to Forge Maps. Impact and Ravine are maps that I would say is on par with Forge world if you like making sky maps. The edit color option does bring nice color to the forge pieces, aside from erosions (but I’m not a fan of the pallet on that map.

For you to compare Halo 4’s Forge to Halo Reach’s Forge and only talk about the negatives that are still present is a huge disservice to the great new features added to Forge.

I do find the saved map distortion to be a problem though.

i agree with everything you say !!!

> The precise Forging tool in Halo Reach was useless

I have to ask, were you hitting in the left or right stick to try and use it? I tried with the right stick for about a month before figuring out that I was doing it wrong. And no, that tool was far from useless. Ask anyone who’s ever had to make a map using freehand, like a good racetrack. That tool was the saving grace of Halo Reach’s forge, without it I wouldn’t have been able to make this, this, or this.

> The ‘edit coordinate’ option when pressing B is all the precision you will ever need.

On the release of Reach I’d have agreed with you, but no. The coordinates are too far apart to be relied on entirely.

> The 90 degree snap I never trusted and I always felt it was too limiting, 45 degree is fine however, only at certain angles does it become a hassle but that can easily be worked around if you, again, use the edit coordinate tab while rotation snap is off.

I don’t think you really understood what I was saying about that, the 45 degree snap was one of the only snaps that wasn’t unusably buggy, and now it is.

> If you truly are a fan of Forge then you cannot deny that the new features that have been added are great additions to the Forge. Aside from the Large Brace you mentioned Magnets are good for aligning every other object.

No. I can not agree with this. Magnets are broken, they only allow certain objects to be aligned with certain other objects, they are very limiting and the placement on most objects is questionable at best.

> Dynamic lighting is an invaluable new feature that has brought life to Forge Maps.

Not all forge maps, it makes indoor forge maps very ugly.

> Impact and Ravine are maps that I would say is on par with Forge world if you like making sky maps.

Impact? Yeah, there’s a decent amount of space in the sky. Ravine? No, that map is tiny. There’s very little room to forge on that map without smacking headfirst into a soft kill zone.

> The edit color option does bring nice color to the forge pieces, aside from erosions (but I’m not a fan of the pallet on that map.

The edit color changes the color very slightly, it’s not noticeable enough to make up for the retina-assault of the white pieces.

> For you to compare Halo 4’s Forge to Halo Reach’s Forge and only talk about the negatives that are still present is a huge disservice to the great new features added to Forge.

It’s constructive criticism, that’s how stuff like this gets fixed. And Halo 4 is the game that got me to stop forging, it’s just boring and frustrating. I’m not exactly in any mood to praise it.

> > only thing I agree with you about is the lack of precision tools and the slight shift when saving maps. Other than that I do not agree with anything else.
> >
> > Forge worlds forge space was terrible for performance.
>
> You actually think that the palette in Halo 4 is better than Reach?

yes, by leaps and bounds.

I also forged about 25 maps in reach, so I’ve seen it plenty.

Is it perfect? No
It’s never been perfect, but it has slowly improved over each game. imho.

gray blocks everywhere, and a big open space i will never see used in MM.

I agree with this thread. Halo 4’s Forge has been a disappointment for me.

There are a number of things that bug me about Forge 3.0, 3.0… I’m not sure it deserves that title. First off, screen lag/ frame rate drops, there back and even worse this time round, any map that wasn’t split screen compatible was never allowed in matchmaking in Reach, so only painfully simplistic maps made it in, in Halo 4, forget it, regular maps with no forge pieces on them have split screen frame drop issues.

Light mapping glitches, it’s back, I thought that because 343 were using a dynamic lighting system that it was unnecessary for light mapping even to exist, but it does and it is still glitchy.

None of the fixed structure line up with rotation snaps, I think the structure on Impact is 23.4 degrees off or something silly so if we try and incorporate them into our maps we have to free hand everything, then the lighting and aesthetic quality don’t match up, so even if we tried to use them it would look ugly.

Ravine… urgg. Why would 343 give us a forerunner themed map and give us moon base pieces to forge with on it. Requiem architecture in campaign looks so interesting, I would love to forge in that style. Then they give us one forerunner piece, a gorgeous piece, it is like 343 are taunting us. Then there is the terrain on that map, it looks pretty but it is far too small and cluttered. If Ravine looked similar but was a canyon maybe the size of exile and had forerunner pieces and sizable terrain pieces that could use as natural bordering, I would love that map, but it sucks.

I agree with all of this.

The lighting system is broke too. I tried to make a big dark map, but as soon as your like 100 feet from something it turns bright white while the rest of the map is pitch black.

Everything in this forge is a step backwords from reach

> > The precise Forging tool in Halo Reach was useless
>
> I have to ask, were you hitting in the left or right stick to try and use it? I tried with the right stick for about a month before figuring out that I was doing it wrong. And no, that tool was far from useless. Ask anyone who’s ever had to make a map using freehand, like a good racetrack. That tool was the saving grace of Halo Reach’s forge, without it I wouldn’t have been able to make this, this, or this.

I never made a race map in Halo Reach, I spent hours on one in halo 3, but that was a different Forge. I mainly made slayer maps and have to say that i never needed to rely on the precision tool, editing coordinates was fine.

> > The ‘edit coordinate’ option when pressing B is all the precision you will ever need.
>
> On the release of Reach I’d have agreed with you, but no. The coordinates are too far apart to be relied on entirely.

I have yet to have the coordinates fail for me.

> > The 90 degree snap I never trusted and I always felt it was too limiting, 45 degree is fine however, only at certain angles does it become a hassle but that can easily be worked around if you, again, use the edit coordinate tab while rotation snap is off.
>
> I don’t think you really understood what I was saying about that, the 45 degree snap was one of the only snaps that wasn’t unusably buggy, and now it is.

How is it buggy may i ask, like the 90 degree snap that skips over certain degrees, I have yet to have that happen to me.

> > If you truly are a fan of Forge then you cannot deny that the new features that have been added are great additions to the Forge. Aside from the Large Brace you mentioned Magnets are good for aligning every other object.
>
> No. I can not agree with this. Magnets are broken, they only allow certain objects to be aligned with certain other objects, they are very limiting and the placement on most objects is questionable at best.

While they may be very limiting, that is the point, they were meant to be used with the duplicate object button to make quick hallways and bridges. It works fine with most building blocks and all of the station pieces on Impact.

> > Dynamic lighting is an invaluable new feature that has brought life to Forge Maps.
>
> Not all forge maps, it makes indoor forge maps very ugly.

I have yet to try it on an indoor map (I assume you mean the arena on erosion) so I will have to take your word for it.

> > Impact and Ravine are maps that I would say is on par with Forge world if you like making sky maps.
>
> Impact? Yeah, there’s a decent amount of space in the sky. Ravine? No, that map is tiny. There’s very little room to forge on that map without smacking headfirst into a soft kill zone.

I cannot stress how good a Forge map Impact is. The trick with Ravine is that there is a lot of room to go with downward along the side of the cliff, the kill zone doesn’t start until the water.

> > The edit color option does bring nice color to the forge pieces, aside from erosions (but I’m not a fan of the pallet on that map.
>
> The edit color changes the color very slightly, it’s not noticeable enough to make up for the retina-assault of the white pieces.

On Impact the secondary color is actually very noticeable. I don’t know if you have played Mirror’s Edge, but the entire game was white, with a secondary color that stood out even better because of all the White. And the game was beautiful. I still see it the same on Impact, a white pallet that you can make the secondary, or team color stick out on.

> > For you to compare Halo 4’s Forge to Halo Reach’s Forge and only talk about the negatives that are still present is a huge disservice to the great new features added to Forge.
>
> It’s constructive criticism, that’s how stuff like this gets fixed. And Halo 4 is the game that got me to stop forging, it’s just boring and frustrating. I’m not exactly in any mood to praise it.

Constructive Criticism is when you take both good and bad and see how they can be worked on to make something perfect, Only stating the negative is not quite the same.

The only thing I can agree with is #6, and even then, I’ve always relied on editing coordinates far more than precision editing.

Forging in Halo 4 is frustrating as -Yoink-!

I’m just said I’ll never be able to play “The Swings” again.

The only thing I can ADD to this discussion…is well…you claim the File Share doesn’t work. WRONG.

How do I have maps made by other people on MY console? How is it that others in SEC3 have made maps and shared them with everyone else?

How could I have made gametypes and uploaded them, and then have others download them?

The File Share WORKS, the SEARCH is the only part that doesn’t.

OP is 1000000000000000000000000000000 % correct.

EDIT: …about everything but the file share not working. Waypoint support is what we need.