Why Halo 5 shouldn't be "Halo 3 Anniversary"

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

This thread is basically a response towards the community’s support behind the return to a more “classic Halo”
Example: Letter to 343

Before I begin (and get flamed) I want you guys to know that I support the return of “classic halo” style game-play in Halo 5, as long as it has its own designated playlist(i.e. Ranked). The community is obviously up in arms about this whole ordeal, but I don’t see why 343 can’t just cater to both crowds… This can be easily done by recreating the Ranked and Social playlist system from Halo 3.

The Ranked playlist will return to “classic halo” and features, such as the sprint button, will be used instead for equipment, or just be turned off completely. I’m no game developer, but I don’t think that this will be a hard feat, assuming that 343 has a large team working on Halo 5. Thus, Ranked players will have their 1-50 system, and get to enjoy the competitive classic style halo that we all came to love (and sometimes loathe) from Halo 2 and 3.

On the other hand, the Social playlist will be more like Halo Reach and Halo 4. It will have sprint, loadouts, possibly AA’s, and hopefully a better refined/balanced/less random ordinance drop system. These were good features (for the most part), and are fun to have in a social style game.

I just think it’s ridiculous that a good chunk of the community doesn’t want 343 to innovate the multiplayer experience at all. We need to find a balance, and make Halo fun for everybody, not just one section of the population. The best way to do this would be to give the hardcore and casual player their own playlist, and this can be done by returning to the Ranked and Social system that was in halo 3.

In conclusion,
I’m no game developer, so maybe I’m being too idealistic, but it seems only logical to cater to both types of player. I HATE to say this, but CoD Black Ops did this, and it worked well. They had a playlist that had no perks, no weapon attachments, and no kill-streaks. It was good ol’ classic multiplayer. If they can do it, why can’t Halo?

2

Why should 343i focus 50/50 on both the classic Halo community as well as the fans who enjoy the Halo 4 gameplay? The two fanbases are clearly not equal, seeing as how Halo 4’s population has declined far far quicker than any past Halo game’s. If anything, the Infinity gametype should be one singly playlist rather than half the game. Plus, catering equally to both sides just doesn’t work, since they’re vastly different.

You need to stick to one main idea, and make it the best you can to end up with a great game, or else you’ll end up with two different systems that are just mediocre and don’t live up to their full potential.What they should do is build the game off of classic Halo with no sprint, weapons on map, etc., get that workimg well, and then add in the little Infinity stuff for that one playlist.

Secondly, you’re clearly misunderstanding the point of that thread that you linked to. They’re giving tips on how to make Halo 5 a good Halo game, which is by building off of the core gameplay seen in the original trilogy, notably Halo 2 and 3. Nobody is asking for a “Halo 3 : Anniversary” as you put it. People want 343i to take what was successful about the original trilogy, use Bungie’s winning formula, and then build off of that with innovative ideas that work with Halo’s core gameplay. We don’t want a copy of Halo 3, we want Halo 5. We want what Halo 4 should have been.

3

>

Some element s of Infinity settings don’t work well with “classic remakes” e.g. Sprint, Jetpack, and having mid-long ranged weapons at-spawn (DMR/LR). 343i can’t make maps that work optimally for both sprint-enabled gametypes and non-sprinting “classic” gametypes, so they’d have to either make twice as many maps, divide the map count to support both, or overall have relatively mediocre map design. In any of these three approaches, the end result is not both plausible and acceptable.

4

How many times will I need to explain why a 50/50 Divide will not work. I will expand on the above response.

If 343 were to split the game, how do they do it? They may wish to concentrate on their new style, as it is their style, they wish to be something different from Bungie. But redefining a Much loved franchise is not the way to go about it. Improving what Bungie had with Halo 3 is. We do not want Halo 3 Anniversary, We want Halo 3’s Mechanics back. To those still unclear on the differences between a mechanic and feature, A mechanic is something within the game than the player cannot turn off when in a game, and is set while playing.at all, and never should be able to. Such as sprint slowing down when shot, flinch when shot, Perks. now, having a choice to turn them off for a custom game would be a feature. that’s the difference. their existence makes them mechanics, being able to edit them is a feature.

Now, as for playlist splitting, to work the perfect ratio would require an Xbox live wide wide survey for all people listed as a halo player ratio. so since that is even then unreliable, it would result in to much or to little concentration in the Halo 4 style. So either way, one side complain about getting too little attention. and the halo style population would be so low compared to the other style’s population, it would cost to much to run those server that are widely unused, so they are closed anyway. so that’s resources that could have made the other side even better. it splits the community cause they then blame each other for this. It is better to drop the style altogether than attempt a combination that will cause more split in the future.

That is why we cannot have split playlists.

also, what about the casuals that left that preferred Halo 3 style, or are you under the impression they all play Halo 4 and the competitives all play Halo 3? No, alot of casuals hate 4 as well, more than the competitive, the competitive are simply better at collecting and voicing their problems. But the fun and casual sides are better at new feature want. two sides of the same coin. Cortanas rampancy can be seen as an ironic comparison between it and Halos current situation.

so if I were a casual who wanted to play Halo 5, but I am forced to play Halo 4 style by your Idea, cause I don’t want to face super skilled “pros” just to play the classic style, causing a split.

these are the reasons it wont work.

5

As nice as that would be it’s not the smartest thing to do. Probably what will happen with halo 5 is 343 will expand on infinity slayer settings probably tweaking POD and other things. Then they would include a classic playlist at launch so the players who do not wish to play the new settings have an outlet.

I don’t feel that either side is better or more important. I am looking at pure facts and sense. It would not make good sense for buisness or games to go back to 1-3 playstyle most of the game. The best they can do is make their infinity settings better and provide a classic playlist at launch.

6

> As nice as that would be <mark>it’s not the smartest thing to do.</mark>1 Probably what will happen with halo 5 is 343 will expand on infinity slayer settings probably tweaking POD and other things. <mark>Then they would include a classic playlist at launch so the players who do not wish to play the new settings have an outlet</mark>2.
>
> I don’t feel that either side is better or more important. I am looking at pure facts and sense. <mark>It would not make good sense for buisness or games to go back to 1-3 playstyle most of the game.</mark>3 <mark>The best they can do is make their infinity settings better and provide a classic playlist at launch.</mark>4

  1. How is what the majority of your fanbase and community want not the smart choice? They make more money, The majority gets what they want, a Halo game that lives up to it’s first decade of the 21st Century trilogy, with innovative new features, and it’s core mechanics returned. How is not the smart choice? Look at my post above yours that I quoted for this. It clearly explains the major problems and the results of split playlists.

  2. The new settings are the least popular by far, so why make these the more centralized playlists, even if a split was a good idea? The more popular classic style should be focused on mostly, as far more players would be on it. but again, if Competitive playlists were classic style, and Social were new, the casual/social community who prefer classic style but don’t want to play against Competitive players have nowhere to go, and making to social playlists just because of this is just untidy and costly to run all these servers.

  3. I refer back to 1. How is it not good business sense if classic is more popular?! It will sell more, it will stay populated more (assuming there is something to aim for and good maps etc) and most of all, it would be a system that is Halo 3’s core mechanics at heart with great feature from newer titles like Forge 2.0, Firefight, Spartan Ops and Custom Firefight.

  4. The Infinity settings cannot be “fixed” they can be balanced, yes, but balanced isn’t fixed. For example, random spawning instead of set location timers and the fact that they are not affect by max on map is game breaking, which is why we end up with a team having 4 Sniper Rifle /Beam Rifle/Binary Rifle combination between said team, to fix this, random location needs to be removed, and changed back to set location, and random drop timer for all the weapons need to be removed and given specific timers again, and finally they need max on map limits, and that also means personal ordinance must go, as it breaks that limit. what you are left with after that is a fancy weapon respawn with a marker, which also need to go, I would accept a five meters from marker, as that ok, not really game breaking, thats a feature, you could turn of for customs, or if it annoys you, a option to turn of ingame. As long as they are there, It makes Halo to easy and a hold your hand FPS, a mockery if you will, of the thing that defined Halo games of it’s golden era, skill gaps that meant something. and no amount of balanced AAs, PODs, Perks, Sprint and Long Range Spawn Weapon can change that.

In short, all these points you made contradict the evidence we have.

7

> On the other hand, the Social playlist will be more like Halo Reach and Halo 4. It will have sprint, loadouts, possibly AA’s, and hopefully a better refined/balanced/less random ordinance drop system. These were good features (for the most part), and are fun to have in a social style game.

And what of those who doesn’t want to play a ranked version of Classic gameplay? They can’t go anywhere else than into ranked. Then what of those who want to play Ranked infinity settings?

Also, the features you regard as “fun” in a social environment, some don’t regard as fun. Doesn’t matter then if they’re in a social environment or not. For instance, I loathe sprint and PoDs. I wouldn’t have liked them better in Social for Halo 3.

Another thing I also think you forget is that Social in Halo 3 was more or less a copy of the Ranked playlists, with some other less serious playlists and some minor changes to some. Both Ranked and Social played the same way. If you however take a classic gametype now and slap ranked on it, and then take the full blown Infinity Settings and slap them all over Social, you essentially have two different games.

> I just think it’s ridiculous that a good chunk of the community doesn’t want 343 to innovate the multiplayer experience at all. We need to find a balance, and make Halo fun for everybody, not just one section of the population. The best way to do this would be to give the hardcore and casual player their own playlist, and this can be done by returning to the Ranked and Social system that was in halo 3.

And I find it ridiculous that a good chunk of the community reads what they want to read rather what they ectually read.

-I have yet to see someone asking for Halo 5 to be a graphically updated Halo 3
-I have yet to see someone asking for no innovation for Halo 5

Another problem you also run into when talking about making it fun for everyone. You can’t please everyone. Especially when you label players as “hardcore” and “casuals” and even expect them to have a favoured playstyle. As in Hardcore players only play Classic and Casuals only Infinity, when there are “hardcore” Infinity players and “Casual” classic players.

8

> And what of those who doesn’t want to play a ranked version of Classic gameplay? They can’t go anywhere else than into ranked. Then what of those who want to play Ranked infinity settings?
> Also, the features you regard as “fun” in a social environment, some don’t regard as fun. Doesn’t matter then if they’re in a social environment or not. For instance, I loathe sprint and PoDs. I wouldn’t have liked them better in Social for Halo 3.
>
> Another thing I also think you forget is that Social in Halo 3 was more or less a copy of the Ranked playlists, with some other less serious playlists and some minor changes to some. Both Ranked and Social played the same way. If you however take a classic gametype now and slap ranked on it, and then take the full blown Infinity Settings and slap them all over Social, you essentially have two different games.
> And I find it ridiculous that a good chunk of the community reads what they want to read rather what they actually read.
> -I have yet to see someone asking for Halo 5 to be a graphically updated Halo 3
>
> -I have yet to see someone asking for no innovation for Halo 5
> Another problem you also run into when talking about making it fun for everyone. You can’t please everyone. Especially when you label players as “hardcore” and “casuals” and even expect them to have a favoured playstyle. As in Hardcore players only play Classic and Casuals only Infinity, when there are “hardcore” Infinity players and “Casual” classic players.
>
> I don’t feel that either side is better or more important. I am looking at pure facts and sense. <mark>It would not make good sense for buisness or games to go back to 1-3 playstyle most of the game.</mark>3 <mark>The best they can do is make their infinity settings better and provide a classic playlist at launch.</mark>4
>
> 1. How is what the majority of your fanbase and community want not the smart choice? They make more money, The majority gets what they want, a Halo game that lives up to it’s first decade of the 21st Century trilogy, with innovative new features, and it’s core mechanics returned. How is not the smart choice? Look at my post above yours that I quoted for this. It clearly explains the major problems and the results of split playlists.
>
> 2. The new settings are the least popular by far, so why make these the more centralized playlists, even if a split was a good idea? The more popular classic style should be focused on mostly, as far more players would be on it. but again, if Competitive playlists were classic style, and Social were new, the casual/social community who prefer classic style but don’t want to play against Competitive players have nowhere to go, and making to social playlists just because of this is just untidy and costly to run all these servers.
>
> 3. I refer back to 1. How is it not good business sense if classic is more popular?! It will sell more, it will stay populated more (assuming there is something to aim for and good maps etc) and most of all, it would be a system that is Halo 3’s core mechanics at heart with great feature from newer titles like Forge 2.0, Firefight, Spartan Ops and Custom Firefight.
>
> 4. The Infinity settings cannot be “fixed” they can be balanced, yes, but balanced isn’t fixed. For example, random spawning instead of set location timers and the fact that they are not affect by max on map is game breaking, which is why we end up with a team having 4 Sniper Rifle /Beam Rifle/Binary Rifle combination between said team, to fix this, random location needs to be removed, and changed back to set location, and random drop timer for all the weapons need to be removed and given specific timers again, and finally they need max on map limits, and that also means personal ordinance must go, as it breaks that limit. what you are left with after that is a fancy weapon respawn with a marker, which also need to go, I would accept a five meters from marker, as that ok, not really game breaking, thats a feature, you could turn of for customs, or if it annoys you, a option to turn of ingame. As long as they are there, It makes Halo to easy and a hold your hand FPS, a mockery if you will, of the thing that defined Halo games of it’s golden era, skill gaps that meant something. and no amount of balanced AAs, PODs, Perks, Sprint and Long Range Spawn Weapon can change that.
> In short, all these points you made contradict the evidence we have.
>
> How many times will I need to explain why a 50/50 Divide will not work. I will expand on the above response.
>
> If 343 were to split the game, how do they do it? They may wish to concentrate on their new style, as it is their style, they wish to be something different from Bungie. But redefining a Much loved franchise is not the way to go about it. Improving what Bungie had with Halo 3 is. We do not want Halo 3 Anniversary, We want Halo 3’s Mechanics back. To those still unclear on the differences between a mechanic and feature, A mechanic is something within the game than the player cannot turn off when in a game, and is set while playing.at all, and never should be able to. Such as sprint slowing down when shot, flinch when shot, Perks. now, having a choice to turn them off for a custom game would be a feature. that’s the difference. their existence makes them mechanics, being able to edit them is a feature.
>
> Now, as for playlist splitting, to work the perfect ratio would require an Xbox live wide wide survey for all people listed as a halo player ratio. so since that is even then unreliable, it would result in to much or to little concentration in the Halo 4 style. So either way, one side complain about getting too little attention. and the halo style population would be so low compared to the other style’s population, it would cost to much to run those server that are widely unused, so they are closed anyway. so that’s resources that could have made the other side even better. it splits the community cause they then blame each other for this. It is better to drop the style altogether than attempt a combination that will cause more split in the future.
>
> That is why we cannot have split playlists.
>
> also, what about the casuals that left that preferred Halo 3 style, or are you under the impression they all play Halo 4 and the competitives all play Halo 3? No, alot of casuals hate 4 as well, more than the competitive, the competitive are simply better at collecting and voicing their problems. But the fun and casual sides are better at new feature want. two sides of the same coin. Cortanas rampancy can be seen as an ironic comparison between it and Halos current situation.
>
> so if I were a casual who wanted to play Halo 5, but I am forced to play Halo 4 style by your Idea, cause I don’t want to face super skilled “pros” just to play the classic style, causing a split.

All these detail alot of what is wrong with the “More of 4” argument. they do not seem to understand the Difference between Innovation and Redefine, They always try to ask for the majority or 50/50 when their side is clearly a minority, they always confuse Hardcore, Dedicated, social, and casual and they refuse to accept blatant facts.

it is frustrating and like arguing with a ten year old who doesn’t know the meaning of what he wants, and the repercussions if he was just left to it.

9

I am sorry if my previous post offended anyone, but it is not a flame. It is really like that. Like Naqser said, read what they want to read, interpret it as they want to. stop twisting words and realize we want Halo to be great again, and that we DO NOT want a Halo 3 clone, because we DO NOT, that would involve no extra features, no very responsive controls and such. Try to understand it is the Mechanics we want back to make Halo great again, not the Features, features that break Halo 4 need to stay out of Halo 5, or be modified to work in Firefight and Spartan Ops, Like PoDS

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postsm2788389_A-New-Firefight-Variant--Worth-The-Long-OP.aspx#post2788389

look at this and tell me I don’t want Innovation. Seriously. This is what Halo should Innovate like. Because as I said, Innovate and Redefine are different. Innovate is ADD, Redefine is CHANGE. and 343 said REDEFINE. Things like this should be How they improve Halo, not making broken Loadout systems that other games do much better. We Want the awesome weapon sandbox, a even better Forge (and in halo, a Farcry style system is not a good idea, IMO, cause that can be said as imitation), Firefight 3.0, Spartan Ops, Amazing Campaigns, Space Battle Custom Games, 16v16, Initial Weapon choice (between CC, BR, AR and SR, with Magnum, NP, SMG and PR and Frags. it’s limited, but balanced, GoW players didn’t complain about this, but they did about Judgement’s system), we like AAs, but not their current implementation, they should be on map reusable equipment, a INNOVATION on Halo 3 equipment. this is Innovation. and we want it, it ADDs to the sandbox, not CHANGE it.

10

Thank you, finally somebody that agrees with me.

Two playlists, a classic one how you all want it, and another with big maps, many players, many vehicles, weapons, customization (really next gen).
Many people, especially competitive or old halo fans, want classic gampelay, but all the others want the features i wrote above, they are not going to buy a “next gen” game that is the same of one of 12 years ago, plus theatre, firefight and 1-2 stupid new gametypes.

11

> Thank you, finally somebody that agrees with me.
>
> Two playlists, a classic one how you all want it, and another with big maps, many players, many vehicles, weapons, customization (really next gen).
> Many people, especially competitive or old halo fans, want classic gampelay, but all the others want the features i wrote above, they are not going to buy a “next gen” game that is the same of one of 12 years ago, plus theatre, firefight and 1-2 stupid new gametypes.

posts like this annoy me.
WE DO NOT WANT A BLATANT COPY STOP SAYING WE DO!!
https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst231563_New-Firefight-Variant-Now-Has-Spoiler-Tags.aspx
this is an example of Innovation, adding to Firefight.
Read this. I want a return to the old mechanics. THE MECHANICS! features are different.
What Halo 4 was was an attempt to lure CoD/Battlefield fans to halo, and it backfired, cause CoD and Battlefield do what Halo 4 does 100 times better.

“they are not going to buy a “next gen” game that is the same of one of 12 years ago, plus theatre, firefight and 1-2 stupid new gametypes.”

This part REALLY annoys me. The Majority of Halo fans are currently Calling for what you outright just said they will not want, Logic?
use your head please.

Innovate means to ADD
Redefine means to CHANGE

And Innovation is what we call for upon the tried and tested Halos. You fail to realize that the Majority (and it is a HUGE majority) want a full classic game, with evolved stuff. GoW 3 style weapon selection player spawn system, not a mix of both Halo 3 and 4 which will result in unfinished chaos like halo 4. AAs on map is not complicated, it is reusable equipment you have to fight for. so it is earned and adds a skill gap.

Here is a compilation of how split playlist would not work

"How many times will I need to explain why a 50/50 Divide will not work. I will expand on the above response.

If 343 were to split the game, how do they do it? They may wish to concentrate on their new style, as it is their style, they wish to be something different from Bungie. But redefining a Much loved franchise is not the way to go about it. Improving what Bungie had with Halo 3 is. We do not want Halo 3 Anniversary, We want Halo 3’s Mechanics back. To those still unclear on the differences between a mechanic and feature, A mechanic is something within the game than the player cannot turn off when in a game, and is set while playing.at all, and never should be able to. Such as sprint slowing down when shot, flinch when shot, Perks. now, having a choice to turn them off for a custom game would be a feature. that’s the difference. their existence makes them mechanics, being able to edit them is a feature.

Now, as for playlist splitting, to work the perfect ratio would require an Xbox live wide wide survey for all people listed as a halo player ratio. so since that is even then unreliable, it would result in to much or to little concentration in the Halo 4 style. So either way, one side complain about getting too little attention. and the halo 4 style population would be so low compared to the other style’s population, it would cost to much to run those server that are widely unused, so they are closed anyway. so that’s resources that could have made the other side even better. it splits the community cause they then blame each other for this. It is better to drop the style altogether than attempt a combination that will cause more split in the future.

That is why we cannot have split playlists."

Halo 4 was a flop, it is no secret. trying to keep its style somewhere in the franchise is a bad idea across the board.

12

OP completely misunderstood the point of the Letter, we don’t want Halo 3 Anniversary for Halo 5, we want back the core HALO mechanics and add innovation from there.

Halo 2 innovated with Live, Halo 3 innovated with Theatre and Forge, ODST innovated with Firefight… THESE are the kind of innovaton we need from Halo 5, not a revolution of the core mechanics like Bungie did with Reach and than 343i did with Halo 4.

13

> > Thank you, finally somebody that agrees with me.
> >
> > Two playlists, a classic one how you all want it, and another with big maps, many players, many vehicles, weapons, customization (really next gen).
> > Many people, especially competitive or old halo fans, want classic gampelay, but all the others want the features i wrote above, they are not going to buy a “next gen” game that is the same of one of 12 years ago, plus theatre, firefight and 1-2 stupid new gametypes.
>
> posts like this annoy me.
> WE DO NOT WANT A BLATANT COPY STOP SAYING WE DO!!
> https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst231563_New-Firefight-Variant-Now-Has-Spoiler-Tags.aspx
> this is an example of Innovation, adding to Firefight.
> Read this. I want a return to the old mechanics. THE MECHANICS! features are different.
> What Halo 4 was was an attempt to lure CoD/Battlefield fans to halo, and it backfired, cause CoD and Battlefield do what Halo 4 does 100 times better.
>
> “they are not going to buy a “next gen” game that is the same of one of 12 years ago, plus theatre, firefight and 1-2 stupid new gametypes.”
>
> This part REALLY annoys me. The Majority of Halo fans are currently Calling for what you outright just said they will not want, Logic?
> use your head please.
>
> Innovate means to ADD
> Redefine means to CHANGE
>
> And Innovation is what we call for upon the tried and tested Halos. You fail to realize that the Majority (and it is a HUGE majority) want a full classic game, with evolved stuff. GoW style weapon selection player spawn system, not a mix of both Halo 3 and 4 which will result in unfinished chaos like halo 4. AAs on map is not complicated, it is reusable equipment you have to fight for. so it is earned and adds a skill gap.
>
> Here is a compilation of how split playlist would not work
>
> “How many times will I need to explain why a 50/50 Divide will not work. I will expand on the above response.
>
> If 343 were to split the game, how do they do it? They may wish to concentrate on their new style, as it is their style, they wish to be something different from Bungie. But redefining a Much loved franchise is not the way to go about it. Improving what Bungie had with Halo 3 is. We do not want Halo 3 Anniversary, We want Halo 3’s Mechanics back. To those still unclear on the differences between a mechanic and feature, A mechanic is something within the game than the player cannot turn off when in a game, and is set while playing.at all, and never should be able to. Such as sprint slowing down when shot, flinch when shot, Perks. now, having a choice to turn them off for a custom game would be a feature. that’s the difference. their existence makes them mechanics, being able to edit them is a feature.
>
> Now, as for playlist splitting, to work the perfect ratio would require an Xbox live wide wide survey for all people listed as a halo player ratio. so since that is even then unreliable, it would result in to much or to little concentration in the Halo 4 style. So either way, one side complain about getting too little attention. and the halo style population would be so low compared to the other style’s population, it would cost to much to run those server that are widely unused, so they are closed anyway. so that’s resources that could have made the other side even better. it splits the community cause they then blame each other for this. It is better to drop the style altogether than attempt a combination that will cause more split in the future.
>
> That is why we cannot have split playlists.”
>
> Halo 4 was a flop, it is no secret. trying to keep its style somewhere in the franchise is a bad idea across the board.

First of all stop offending, you annoy me but I’m not telling you it (ops, now I am…).

New 3vs3 firefight? What an innovation, all the power of the new xbox will be needed to handle this!
You are repeating what i said, same as halo 1 plus some stupid features (theatre, firefight), this is no innovation.

Halo 4 copied COD. It was a big mistake. It could get some ideas from battlefield, evolving to bigger maps, bigger battles and more players, but keeping the classic and loved by fans small playlists.

Halo 4 sold a lot, it was not a flop, it simply didn’t have the same “magic” as other halos, and for me the problem has to be searched in campaign not that much in MP, which was quite good (but has to be better).

They can evolve the game but also keep a classic playlist. Won’t be difficult, you want it to be like halo 3, it’s not difficult to make 7 small arena maps, 4vs4, 1 standard weapon, one grenade, and some power weapons on field. It takes no time, consider it like a pro gametypes playlist. Obviously the game would be focused on new stuff, but if you don’t like it you can always play the other playlist.

I’m talking about real innovation, if you don’t like that word i’ll use “evolve”. Halo has to “evolve”, not go back to 10 years ago and add some features.

14

> OP completely misunderstood the point of the Letter, we don’t want Halo 3 Anniversary for Halo 5, we want back the core HALO mechanics and add innovation from there.
>
> Halo 2 innovated with Live, Halo 3 innovated with Theatre and Forge, ODST innovated with Firefight… THESE are the kind of innovaton we need from Halo 5, not a revolution of the core mechanics like Bungie did with Reach and than 343i did with Halo 4.

And what are these “innovations” for halo 5? New firefight?
We should talk about innovations and stop talking about devolutions. It’s stupid to say “make it like halo 3 but innovate”, innovate what i ask? You want no loadouts, you want no customization, you want 4vs4, no weapons…

Halo is coming to next generation consoles, we could ask something more that a theatre mode.

15

> OP completely misunderstood the point of the Letter, we don’t want Halo 3 Anniversary for Halo 5, we want back the core HALO mechanics and add innovation from there.
>
> Halo 2 innovated with Live, Halo 3 innovated with Theatre and Forge, ODST innovated with Firefight… THESE are the kind of innovaton we need from Halo 5, not a revolution of the core mechanics like Bungie did with Reach and than 343i did with Halo 4.

Thank you, this is completely correct. Asking for split playlists splits the community, as it has been said time and time again. here is a complete list of reasons:

  1. Around 30+ maps would be need to make the game work, and 343 do not have the time to do that and the bonus stuf, Campaign levels, Firefight maps, spartan ops maps, and so on.

  2. The srvers for the new style would be very low in poulation compared to the classic ones, and would cost to much for 343 to support, so it gets shut down, and fans from classic are angry that man power wasted on classic which could have been used to make classic better, and new style blame classic for the lack of their population.

  3. They would NEVER finish all the mechanics in time for a deadline, so we get another incomplete game.

  4. What playstyle do you build campaign, firefight and spartan ops around?

  5. The game would require like 3 disks, so it would be expensive.

  6. It would be too hard to balance the management of both playstyles.

  7. the amount of different rotational, ranked playlists, social playlists, firefight playlists, campaign playlist and spartan ops playlist would be cluttering.

in short terms, it is more trouble than its worth.

16

> > > Thank you, finally somebody that agrees with me.
> >
> > First of all stop offending, you annoy me but I’m not telling you it (ops, now I am…).
> >
> > New 3vs3 firefight? What an innovation, all the power of the new xbox will be needed to handle this!
> > You are repeating what i said, same as halo 1 plus some stupid features (theatre, firefight), this is no innovation.
> >
> > Halo 4 copied COD. It was a big mistake. It could get some ideas from battlefield, evolving to bigger maps, bigger battles and more players, but keeping the classic and loved by fans small playlists.
> >
> > Halo 4 sold a lot, it was not a flop, it simply didn’t have the same “magic” as other halos, and for me the problem has to be searched in campaign not that much in MP, which was quite good (but has to be better).
> >
> > They can evolve the game but also keep a classic playlist. Won’t be difficult, you want it to be like halo 3, it’s not difficult to make 7 small arena maps, 4vs4, 1 standard weapon, one grenade, and some power weapons on field. It takes no time, consider it like a pro gametypes playlist. Obviously the game would be focused on new stuff, but if you don’t like it you can always play the other playlist.
> >
> > I’m talking about real innovation, if you don’t like that word i’ll use “evolve”. Halo has to “evolve”, not go back to 10 years ago and add some features.
>
> CoD and Battlefield fans are gonna stay on their games, and Halo fans will not like your Ideas for Halo games, so thats another Halo 4 fail and for the exact same reasons. Halo Fans want their old style back. 95% it seems. You do not want Innovation, you want Redefinment, and 95% of halo fans disagree with you. please tell me why the classic should be less concentrated on when 95% of Halo fans want it? halo was at core mechanics, an Arena Shooter, they should Innovate to that, not Redefine it to a generic Class based shooter that is mediocre. That Firefight is Unique to other games equivelants, and expand upon stuff reach had first. Halo was Innovative for its massive selection of gametypes, what you could do with them, and the Consistantly balanced games up until reach. I like the word Innovation. Your not using the wrong word. Halo does not need to evolve, cause look where it got it. It needs to improve what it had, because thats what other games do. Halo needs to go back to it’s old style, cause thats where it excelled, as an arena shooter, the best of on Xbox. Halo cannot get into class based, CoD and Battlefield own it. Halo needs to own Arena again.
>
> So I will make this clear again.
> Innovate = ADD
> Redefine = CHANGE = EVOLVE
> 343 said they wish to redefine Halo with Halo 4
> HALO 4 Redefinement = FLOP
> HALO 4 was a flop, so it sold more, then dropped like a stone. Initial sales doesn’t mean the game wasn’t a flop. that fact about initial sales is irrelevant, so I suppose you conveniently do not know it also has one of the fastest and highest game return rates in FPS history on Xbox?
>
> Stop trying to have Halo be something it isn’t, It is an Arena Based FPS, That had Top of MLG since Halo 1 to Halo 3 so 9 years. and was dropped after Reach. the start of the downfall. made a comeback towards Halo 4, then halo 4 just got no.
>
> You want perks? play a class based shooter. Halo should be and Arena shooter again.

17

I too disagree with Splitting the community, and absolutely don’t understand why I see it posted so often. Seriously, it’s a terrible idea.

I’m not here to dictate game-play mechanics to 343. But what I know for sure is one simple truth: It needs a unified, balanced and competitive rule set out of the box with quality maps and a focused vision.

We don’t need a hogwash of multiple modes and settings. The ONLY thing that separates the high level and low level players should be their SKILL within the sandbox. That is all. Look at Dota 2 or Starcraft 2 which are HUGE games, the rules are the same for Pros as they are for someone on their first match. This is how it should be, it works and it allows players to focus on their actual knowledge of the game instead of being hand held into false knowledge in social play.

18

> > OP completely misunderstood the point of the Letter, we don’t want Halo 3 Anniversary for Halo 5, we want back the core HALO mechanics and add innovation from there.
> >
> > Halo 2 innovated with Live, Halo 3 innovated with Theatre and Forge, ODST innovated with Firefight… THESE are the kind of innovaton we need from Halo 5, not a revolution of the core mechanics like Bungie did with Reach and than 343i did with Halo 4.
>
> And what are these “innovations” for halo 5? New firefight?
> We should talk about innovations and stop talking about devolutions. It’s stupid to say “make it like halo 3 but innovate”, innovate what i ask? You want no loadouts, you want no customization, you want 4vs4, no weapons…
>
> Halo is coming to next generation consoles, we could ask something more that a theatre mode.

You know, I find it strange that you dissaprove of ideas that add and improve on allready established mechanics and features. Then go right ahead and tells us that we need new stuff.

Hypocritical even.

And perhaps even a perfect example of what I said earlier, about readind what you want to read. Not what it actually says. Darkrain posted a good example of a Firefight idea, I’ve also made a post about my version of the next gen firefight I’d like here. Or one thread where I explained how I wanted the campaign for Halo 4 to be, that can still be applied for Halo 5, I don’t have it anymore though. Either way, optional objectives that alter how the campaign playes down the road, not story altering stuff, but choosng between two alternate objectves could change which enemies are present on a map further down. Or multigravitational maps so that players could walk on the “ceiling” and so on. But I guess it’s not “next gen material”?

Please, do go ahead and say these aren’t innovations. Please do go ahead and say that we don’t want to take Halo forward.

Not wanting loadouts and sprint is not going against moving Halo forward.

19

> > OP completely misunderstood the point of the Letter, we don’t want Halo 3 Anniversary for Halo 5, we want back the core HALO mechanics and add innovation from there.
> >
> > Halo 2 innovated with Live, Halo 3 innovated with Theatre and Forge, ODST innovated with Firefight… THESE are the kind of innovaton we need from Halo 5, not a revolution of the core mechanics like Bungie did with Reach and than 343i did with Halo 4.
>
> And what are these “innovations” for halo 5? New firefight?
> We should talk about innovations and stop talking about devolutions. It’s stupid to say “make it like halo 3 but innovate”, innovate what i ask? You want no loadouts, you want no customization, you want 4vs4, no weapons…
>
> Halo is coming to next generation consoles, we could ask something more that a theatre mode.

Devolutions?
The mechanics were completely changed, bloom was never in the game and we never wanted it, it was more of a devolution when we took that mechanic in.

Let’s make a list of what REAL devolutions took place thanks to the new mechanics:
*Power weapons everywhere(thank you ordinance)
*An entire team can run around with Over shield (thank you ordinance)
*BTB is hell because vehicle combat results in the entire enemy team going for Plasma pistols(thank you loadouts)
*Or camping in CTF with a respawn weapon that is insta kill close quarters (thank you loadouts and Bolt shot)
*Removal of race (And we loved that feature from Reach, still modable but I heard someone got banned for it)
*Weapons despawn so quick you can easily run out of ammo
*Ammo perk which results in someone running with 6 rockets or a sniper rifle with 16 shots
*Perks as a whole

20

> > > OP completely misunderstood the point of the Letter, we don’t want Halo 3 Anniversary for Halo 5, we want back the core HALO mechanics and add innovation from there.
> > >
> > > Halo 2 innovated with Live, Halo 3 innovated with Theatre and Forge, ODST innovated with Firefight… THESE are the kind of innovaton we need from Halo 5, not a revolution of the core mechanics like Bungie did with Reach and than 343i did with Halo 4.
> >
> > And what are these “innovations” for halo 5? New firefight?
> > We should talk about innovations and stop talking about devolutions. It’s stupid to say “make it like halo 3 but innovate”, innovate what i ask? You want no loadouts, you want no customization, you want 4vs4, no weapons…
> >
> > Halo is coming to next generation consoles, we could ask something more that a theatre mode.
>
> You know, I find it strange that you dissaprove of ideas that add and improve on allready established mechanics and features. Then go right ahead and tells us that we need new stuff.
>
> Hypocritical even.
>
> And perhaps even a perfect example of what I said earlier, about readind what you want to read. Not what it actually says. Darkrain posted a good example of a Firefight idea, I’ve also made a post about my version of the next gen firefight I’d like here. Or one thread where I explained how I wanted the campaign for Halo 4 to be, that can still be applied for Halo 5, I don’t have it anymore though. Either way, optional objectives that alter how the campaign playes down the road, not story altering stuff, but choosng between two alternate objectves could change which enemies are present on a map further down. Or multigravitational maps so that players could walk on the “ceiling” and so on. But I guess it’s not “next gen material”?
>
> Please, do go ahead and say these aren’t innovations. Please do go ahead and say that we don’t want to take Halo forward.
>
> Not wanting loadouts and sprint is not going against moving Halo forward.

First, thank you for the Firefight compliment. yours was interesting to. copy and paste to my Topic, I would be proud to have it there.

Now to the issue at hand:
The problem is the confusion of Innovation and Redefinement and also the Confusion of Mechanics and Features,to a lesser extent.

Redefinement was what 343 did with Halo 4. It had good initial sales, then had some of the fastest return of games on Xbox history against it’s sales numbers. It was a Flop. PIX24 wants Redefinement, something Reach and Halo 4 clearly proved is that a HUGE majority of Halo fans do not want this, 95% in fact. The downright refusal to accept this and continue to want the new style is what a developer does that causes a games series to fall. a 16v16 is an Innovation, the kind that DOESN’T break the game. and that’s the things Halo needs. It does not need knock off class based systems with perks and AAs, It should be BR, AR, CC and SR with Magnum, Needle Pistol, SMG and Plasma Rifle, no sprint, faster player move speed. Sprint breaks Halo by ruining maps and causing players caught mid sprint to be easy kills for those who choose to camp with DMRs or LRs. It breaks map flow. AAs add a randomness that should not be present in an Arena shooter, it changes who has more skill, who was more accurate to whose AA and help them more, perks do the same thing, both remove two skill gaps, gaps that are a Key Part of the original trilogy, the most popular Halo games. That is Devolution, a game like Halo should only make the game better at discerning the skill ranges.

It is also repeatedly said that the new Core Mechanics should be concentrated on. You simply DO NOT place the least popular part of your franchise ahead of the popular part, the 7 maps of 4v4 is absolutely selfish to this “Evolved” side that simple facts prove is the least popular style. Even if split playlist was worth it, it should be a mix of 4 playlists, the universal title is infinity mode: Rumble Pit, Team Slayer Variants, Team Objective Variants and BTB. No more. It doesn’t need more. it is such a small community. those are the most played playlists in Halo 4 (technically CTF is played more than Objective, but CTF is in there).

The rest is Ranked, Social, Fun, Co-operative.
here is a rundown:
https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postsm2787277_A-Playlist-Example-For-Halo-5.aspx#post2787277

This My idea for a playlist menu, plus the Idea for Infinity mode above, but I only include for its existence. but should not be the concentrated playlist. It is not the most popular. to concentrate on it would be completely unlogical (that was great restraint in word choice).

The fact is, Halo 3’s mechanics are better, they work, they are popular with 95% of Halo fans. On map equipment changed to on map AAs is good, it plays to Classic Halo’s style. Choice between only Primary and Secondary, and only between 4 at that for each slot, is balanced, and makes for more variation. This was GoW 3’s system basically, and it works fine. When Judgement came out, the system was hated, it’s the same sad story.