Halo 5 needs to have BR starts for the majority of game types. Here’s why,
1: The BR actually takes some skill to use therefore the more skilled player would most likely earn the right to take control of parts of maps or weapons because they are more SKILLED.
2: The BR gives you a fighting chance at spawn. If a team gets a good setup you actually have a chance to break that setup with SKILLED shooting.
3: The BR if used skillfully can take down a rocket or sniper guy(descope please) making power weapons what they are supposed to be which is an advantage not sure kills because everyone is walking around with SMGs or ARs.
4: The BR makes the initial fight for power weapons an actual fight instead of a race or luck of spawn.
5: In flag or objective games you can spawn and actually be able to help with the saving of a flag or getting of an oddball. If spawning with AR or SMG you have to sprint(please get rid of) or find a BR or DMR to be able to help.
6: The BR is not an overpowered weapon and players will drop their BRs for certain weapons in certain situations but they will most likely want to keep their BR if they can. If you spawned with an AR or SMG you are looking for anything to trade it out for.
I want to hear other valid argument for BR starts as well as valid arguments against but please no “it turns into nothing but BR shooting all game” which Halo 2 proved is untrue.
How did Halo 2 prove it to be untrue when that’s all it ever did? When people make that accusation they are specifically talking about Halo 2 where it originates from. When Halo 2 came out me and my friends went back to Halo 1 because that’s all it ever was.
That is just untrue. I played Halo CE and Halo 2 from launch. Halo 2 did involve alot of BR battles but to say other weapons did not come into play is a huge lie. The sword had to ability to dominate Lockout or Midship. Snipers were the weapon of power in Sanctuary. Rockets and OS were the focus of Beaver Creek. My group of friends and I still play Halo CE and Halo 2 to this day so I have a good bit of experience to speak of. Consistency in game play is a good thing. Randomness is not. The game needs to focus on the battles of the primary weapon BR and all other weapons need to have a niche like Halo CE AR and PR. Competitive Halo players love CE and 2 for that reason. Game play revolved around the primary skill based gun which was the Pistol and BR.
I’d like somebody to tell me the negatives of BR starts.
There is no reason why BRs have to be universal when we have 3 other weapons that are just as effective and are in the same niche.
It erases variety. Starting with automatics or any weapon besides the BR changes the game a lot. It allows other parts of the sandbox to shine. Unless you want the sandbox to consist completely of power weapons which makes the game even more redundant.
Some people don’t care about competitive people trying to turn everything into a BR fest. Why should I have to submit to your style of play?
The BR is not some god example of skill. The only thing impeding its ease of use is random spread that has plagued it since Halo 2. That’s the whole reason the thing is so popular. It is more skillful than many other weapons, but at the same time it is simple and easy to control and use.
I agree, SMG and AR starts do not provide a healthy level of counter play. I’m sure it’s fun and all picking off players with a Sniper from a safe distance against players with SMGs. Or dominating people with a Shotgun against a weaker close ranged weapon. But that is not good game design. You are creating an unfair lopsided experience that severely limits the options available to the player on the receiving end. What people need to realize is Utility weapon starts is not only conducive to competitive gameplay but it also helps to prevent frustrating experiences that can alienate less skilled players and help avoid unfair snow balling advantages.
The only problems with the BR I see is it’s not really a weapon you ever want to drop. Even if you have a Power weapon you want the BR with you for clean ups and to use if you are attacked outside of the power weapons niche. The BR does tend to see a hell lot of action. Lower tier pick ups do become fairly redundant and rarely used. A lot of that is the fault of the Sandbox, the second tier weapons were designd for SMG/ AR starts in Halo 2 and 3, and as such weren’t balanced for BR starts. People would fight over an AR if it could kill as fast as a SAW. BR starts have in the past created fairly repetitive experiences that under utilizes the wider sandbox.
I have been considering 12 mag Pistol starts. 6 shot kill, 1.33 sec kill time with a similar accuracy to a BR. Turn the pistol back into the hand cannon it always should have been. It’ll be able to take on power weapons and can be used to team shot etc but it’ll have the weakness of only being able to kill a maximum of 2 people per magazine. Encouraging players to replace it. I don’t think you should spawn with a secondary such to encourage arming your self with lower tiered weapons off the map and I was considering giving a few more weapons head shot bonuses so they can be used for clean up.
Everyone should spawn with a Medium Range weapon, or they should have the option to.
> That is just untrue.
> Goes on to list examples of people using the only Power Weapon on the map.
You should realize that’s no different than what people are saying.
“The game isn’t just Battle Rifles, it’s Battle Rifles but with the occasional Sniper”.
> 6: The BR is not an overpowered weapon and players will drop their BRs for certain weapons in certain situations but they will most likely want to keep their BR if they can
You can hold two weapons, and often you spawn with a Battle Rifle and Nothing, or a Battle Rifle and a Magnum.
People will swap out the Magnum or simply pick up an extra weapon, but rarely will they give up their Battle Rifle for something else.
> I have been considering 12 mag Pistol starts. 6 shot kill, 1.33 sec kill time with a similar accuracy to a BR. Turn the pistol back into the hand cannon it always should have been. It’ll be able to take on power weapons and can be used to team shot etc but it’ll have the weakness of only being able to kill a maximum of 2 people per magazine. Encouraging players to replace it. I don’t think you should spawn with a secondary such to encourage arming your self with lower tiered weapons off the map and I was considering giving a few more weapons head shot bonuses so they can be used for clean up.
interesting. will it be 6 shots on body to kill or head?
> > I have been considering 12 mag Pistol starts. 6 shot kill, 1.33 sec kill time with a similar accuracy to a BR. Turn the pistol back into the hand cannon it always should have been. It’ll be able to take on power weapons and can be used to team shot etc but it’ll have the weakness of only being able to kill a maximum of 2 people per magazine. Encouraging players to replace it. I don’t think you should spawn with a secondary such to encourage arming your self with lower tiered weapons off the map and I was considering giving a few more weapons head shot bonuses so they can be used for clean up.
>
> interesting. will it be 6 shots on body to kill or head?
5 to strip shields, +1 headshot to kill, or 4 body shots.
> That is just untrue. I played Halo CE and Halo 2 from launch. Halo 2 did involve alot of BR battles but to say other weapons did not come into play is a huge lie. The <mark>sword</mark> had to ability to dominate Lockout or Midship. <mark>Snipers</mark> were the weapon of power in Sanctuary. <mark>Rockets</mark> and OS were the focus of Beaver Creek. My group of friends and I still play Halo CE and Halo 2 to this day so I have a good bit of experience to speak of. <mark>Consistency in game play is a good thing. Randomness is not</mark>. The game needs to focus on the battles of the primary weapon BR and all other weapons need to have a niche like Halo CE AR and PR. Competitive Halo players love CE and 2 for that reason. Game play revolved around the primary skill based gun which was the Pistol and BR.
>
> <mark>I’d like somebody to tell me the negatives of BR starts</mark>.
These are all power weapons. They are by design supposed to be better than the BR in their Niche.
This is true, so why shouldn’t other weapons, like the AR, also be consistent like the BR. Why does it have to be that the BR is all anyone can use “skillfully”?
There isn’t really an argument against BR starts. The argument is more directed at the BR itself. I personally don’t think the BR is necessarily the problem, but rather that there wasn’t another weapon that challenged it at midrange combat. ( the Carbine doesn’t count as it is the covenant BR ). If we were to design the DMR to be a mid-long range counterbalance weapon to the BR ( the DMR practically is ), and the AR to be a close-mid range counterbalance weapon to the BR, then the game wouldn’t completely become an endless cycle of BR fights.
I’d be fine with BR or CC. Fact are facts. Halo 2 was the most popular game of the Halo series and the majority of games were BR start after the patch. I don’t want every single game to have BR starts but the majority of the playlist should be. Someone ask if they aren’t into competitive play then why should they be forced too and I agree they shouldn’t. Have a few playlist where AR is the primary or SMG. Give people options.
The common thing I see is that people that didn’t really play the older games don’t see my point of view. I’ve yet to meet someone that actually put serious time into every Halo game that wanted anything other than BR starts.
The variety argument is dumb. If you want to play a game where you use 5-10 different guns in a game then play customs or the social playlist. A good Halo game should focus gameplay around the primary weapon(BR, CC, DMR) and the rest of the sandbox should have its niche. It’s the formula that made Halo popular. Moving away from that formula has killed Halo and it’s population.
> I’d be fine with BR or CC. Fact are facts. Halo 2 was the most popular game of the Halo series and the majority of games were BR start after the patch. I don’t want every single game to have BR starts but the majority of the playlist should be. Someone ask if they aren’t into competitive play then why should they be forced too and I agree they shouldn’t. Have a few playlist where AR is the primary or SMG. Give people options.
>
> <mark>The common thing I see is that people that didn’t really play the older games don’t see my point of view. I’</mark>ve yet to meet someone that actually put serious time into every Halo game that wanted anything other than BR starts.
>
> The variety argument is dumb. If you want to play a game where you use 5-10 different guns in a game then play customs or the social playlist. A good Halo game should focus gameplay around the primary weapon(BR, CC, DMR) and the rest of the sandbox should have its niche. It’s the formula that made Halo popular. Moving away from that formula has killed Halo and it’s population.
People don’t agree with you, so they obviously didn’t play Halo as much as you and therefore need to play more Halo 2&3 to think like you, otherwise their opinion is invalid. I love the logic of this Halo -Yoink!-.
To elaborate more on gameplay differences, the game plays much more strategically without universal BR starts. In slayer games SMG or AR starts allow people to move around the map freely while also allowing them to fight over other weapons such as the battle rifle.
I don’t mind BR starts, but there is no reason for them to be universal. We should also have DMR and Carbine variants as well as just clean slayer with autos and a pistol.
> Go play MLG junk if you want constant BR starts. I don’t want to be forced to spawn with it all the time, since that removes any form of variety.
>
> Plus the DMR is again, so I doubt this will happen anyway.
Go play Infinity junk if you want variety off the spawn. I want BR starts because I like having an actual useful weapon off the spawn instead of a short-range automatic that can’t compete against precisions.
See how that can be flipped around?
“Veto for BRs”. It’s all you’d hear on Halo 3 ranked. When you got in the higher levels, 99% of the time (regardless of the map) ARs wouldn’t be kept. As far as I can see, there’s a rason for this; I don’t want precision weapons to turn in to power weapons. This happens when you’re not given one off the spawn, because they dominate at everything but very close range.
I don’t have a problem with precisions dominating at mid to long range, because that’s what they’re there for. Just like automatics will shred up close. Spawn everybody with a precision and an automatic and there’s no problem.
Now, when it comes to WHICH precision weapon, I would rather have one to spawn with, and others be placed on the map. Which one it is, I don’t care. But for example if everybody was forced to spawn with a BR, I’d see no problem boosting the usefulness of the CC and DMR and placing them on the map.
I personally don’t care what weapon we start with as long as I can reasonably fight back off of spawn.
It could be a BR/CC/DMR/N’ifle/Pistol/Or a Neon pink rifle that fires clouds and rainbows. It does not matter what it looks like as long as I am not stuck with a weapon that can do nothing but hose people down at every close range.
With two exceptions(CE Plasma Rifle and ODST SMG), every auto weapon has been a been a close range exclusive bullet hose. These weapons are not suitable as spawn weapons as they are only intended to be used at close range and put fresh spawns at the mercy of even mediocre precision weapons. Not that they can’t be useful within that niche, but they simply don’t have the versatility to respond effectively to the player controlling the power weapons.
As far as ‘variety’ arguments go, adding multiple functional clones is a waste of time for a superficial change. I also have no idea what people are talking about when they say SMG(or whatever) starts encourage people to use other weapons. People already do pick up other weapons. You know what they don’t pick up? Useless/weak weapons, IE vast majority of auto weapons/magnums in the series. Auto weapons and their reputation was ruined by dual wielding and turning them all into interchangeable bullet hoses with very little depth.
Having one powerful bullet hose is fine(ala CE AR), but having 3 or 4 separate weapons all fulfilling the same role there won’t be much incentive to pick them up. Especially when are mediocre-underpowered like they were in H2/H3/Reach. At least Halo 4 made the bullet hoses lethal again and I would have picked one up off the map had that been an option.
TL;dr We ought to be able to properly defend ourselves off spawn. And most ‘variety’ arguments are silly.
While some BR starts would be good, I don’t want the majority of it to be BR starts.
With Halo’s expansive sandbox and maps, people should want and need to move around the map and use what’s around them. Spawning with an AR or SMG causes you to search for better weapons like the BR or CC rather than camping the two power weapon spots because you already have a good, versatile weapon.
Let teams clash not only for the power weapons, but for everything on the map. Make it more tactical.
Making close range weapons like the AR actually useful, like they did in Halo 4, would allow players to defend themselves reasonably off spawn, while weapons like the BR still provide the incentive to want to use.