I’ve just noticed something about the DMR in the Halo4 beta footage that I had previously missed.
DMR bloom is no longer cumulative!
Previously I thought bloom is back just reduced (similar to the TU bloom in super slayer Reach only more) as I think most people still do but upon further inspection I am pleasantly surprised. If you look closely to the radical bloom in the beta gameplay you may notice the bloom expands to the exact same maximum size regardless of it being the first shot, second, third, fourth…ect. paced or not. Why might you ask is this a big revelation? I would just prefer no bloom. Let me explain.
Bloom was a game weapon mechanic that has been around since CE and all subsequent Halos on selected weapons. It acts as a middle ground between millimetre perfect precision shooting and random spread spray and pray. It allows for cross map killing/ accuracy beyond typical effective range but at a cost of kill times. In Halo Reach Bungie controversially visualised this mechanic on the hud and to the dismay of many applied to effect to precision utility weapons. But is this the first time this has been done? No. The CE Pistol had bloom. Yes bloom not just bullet spread. And for that reason I think, ignoring the fact it was an OP 3 shot kill, the CE Pistol was better than its descendant Precision Utility Rifles. The BR in halo2 (pre-TU) and Halo3 (and assumedly Halo4) instead just had minimal but RANDOM spread. Which I am not a fan of. Halo2 post-TU BR and Reach’s TU No-bloom DMR in my opinion went too far in the other direction. The weapons had little to no limitation afflicting effective range and as such became imbalanced against the rest of the sandbox. Not much of a problem for small 4v4 maps but it really shows in BTB.
The Problem with DMR bloom in Reach was in my opinion was that it was cumulative. When spamming the trigger the ridicule would expand increasingly with each shot until it reaches a cap. Beyond the third shot bullets would seemingly fire at increasingly strange angles and you would have to wait quite some time for the ridicule to shrink back to size. It meant that even close range battles which you would expect to be able to spam were still afflicted and TU 75% bloom didn’t fully address this issue. But if the cap was lowered to be the same size as the first shot bloom and maybe increase first shot bloom suitably (though not by much) the effect would be consistent spread when spamming and the bloom would only have an effect on long range battles just as it was intended.
It appears 343 have done exactly this!
> The CE Pistol had bloom
No, that’s just bullet spread.
> > The CE Pistol had bloom
>
> No, that’s just bullet spread.
Did you see the difference between the 2nd and 3rd style of shooting? Spamming compared to pacing.
Firstly, the first shot bloom is smaller than each consecutive shot. But anything from the second to fifteenth shot have the same bloom size. Look closer.
Bloom does not balance precision weapons, it just makes them more random, and more useful in close quarters. 343 is going for an approach where every weapon has its own unique role. With the DMR filling that long range role by being accurate and having a lower fire rate compared to the BR and Carbine, there is no need for bloom. Both of those weapons kill fast enough that they will beat the DMR at medium range in a 1v1, but lack the accuracy to beat the DMR at long range.
The CE Pistol doesn’t have bloom. There is nothing to make your shot less accurate per shot. You fired automatically and were inaccurate, or tapped your trigger(at the same rate of fire) and were accurate.
The problem with the DMR bloom was part every other weapon in the sandbox, and part there being no real punishment for spamming up close. With the current DMR bloom, we can see there will be no randomness outside very long range. You will only ever have to pace your shot when firing at extreme distances.
> > > The CE Pistol had bloom
> >
> > No, that’s just bullet spread.
>
> Did you see the difference between the 2nd and 3rd style of shooting? Spamming compared to pacing.
Again, that’s bullet spread. Just because you have to pace your shots doesn’t mean it’s bloom, it’s still bullet spread.
the dmr is making a big turn around now we have to fix the problem with vehicle damage
> the dmr is making a big turn around now we have to fix the problem with vehicle damage
Vehicle damage was fine. It just needs to not flip a Warthog in the air.
> > > > The CE Pistol had bloom
> > >
> > > No, that’s just bullet spread.
> >
> > Did you see the difference between the 2nd and 3rd style of shooting? Spamming compared to pacing.
>
> Again, that’s bullet spread. Just because you have to pace your shots doesn’t mean it’s bloom, it’s still bullet spread.
Pure bullet spread would mean every shot including the first would have an equal chance of going off target. Bloom is just variable bullet spread. The spread clearly varies from the first shot to the following spammed shots in style2. If anything the bloom machanic looks to be very simular to Halo 4s DMR.
> > > > > The CE Pistol had bloom
> > > >
> > > > No, that’s just bullet spread.
> > >
> > > Did you see the difference between the 2nd and 3rd style of shooting? Spamming compared to pacing.
> >
> > Again, that’s bullet spread. Just because you have to pace your shots doesn’t mean it’s bloom, it’s still bullet spread.
>
> Pure bullet spread would mean every shot including the first would have an equal chance of going off target.
They do. As long as you don’t hold the trigger.
That is how it works on every CE weapon.
> > The CE Pistol had bloom
>
> No, that’s just bullet spread.
just because you dont see the ridicule expand doesnt mean it doesnt have bloom. try comparing this to the DMR, BOTH, if fired rapidly, get less and less accurate, but if you pace them, all the shots are more or less in the same spot. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is that from CE-3 bloom was NOT visible. now it IS
> > > The CE Pistol had bloom
> >
> > No, that’s just bullet spread.
>
> just because you dont see the ridicule expand doesnt mean it doesnt have bloom. try comparing this to the DMR, BOTH, if fired rapidly, get less and less accurate, but if you pace them, all the shots are more or less in the same spot. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is that from CE-3 bloom was NOT visible. now it IS
Nope.
It didn’t exist in Halo before Reach. Completely different system.
> > > > The CE Pistol had bloom
> > >
> > > No, that’s just bullet spread.
> >
> > just because you dont see the ridicule expand doesnt mean it doesnt have bloom. try comparing this to the DMR, BOTH, if fired rapidly, get less and less accurate, but if you pace them, all the shots are more or less in the same spot. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is that from CE-3 bloom was NOT visible. now it IS
>
> Nope.
>
> It didn’t exist in Halo before Reach. Completely different system.
hmmm… contradictory test results. May be the results of the example I saw was just a fluke. But anyway the main point of this thread is that static bloom is better than Reach’s cumulative bloom for precision weapons. Although the bullet spread whilst holding down the trigger would still constitute as bloom but if it instantly resets if you take your finger off the trigger I can see now why you were arguing.
> Firstly, the first shot bloom is smaller than each consecutive shot. But anything from the second to fifteenth shot have the same bloom size. Look closer.
I viewed it frame by frame. The bloom expands to exactly the same size as the outer circle of the ridicule. Even the first shot.
> > The CE Pistol had bloom
>
> No, that’s just bullet spread.
Non visual bloom by a different name to satisfy the butt hurt CE fanboys.
> > Firstly, the first shot bloom is smaller than each consecutive shot. But anything from the second to fifteenth shot have the same bloom size. Look closer.
>
> I viewed it frame by frame. The bloom expands to exactly the same size as the outer circle of the ridicule. Even the first shot.
The AR in Reach did this as well. I wonder how BTB will play out though with very little bloom on the DMR, but if it was fine in HAlo 2, it shouldn’t be too bad.
> > > The CE Pistol had bloom
> >
> > No, that’s just bullet spread.
>
> Non visual bloom by a different name to satisfy the butt hurt CE fanboys.
Or a completely different system that people mistake for bloom because Bungie said so.