Why H5 haters are slowly losing ground

Not everyone who criticized 343i is an obstructionist, most critics had very valid reasons to stand up (and most of these really helped to make H5 a better game) – however there are people who can be reasoned with and people who just want to rant.

Sadly from what I’ve seen in this board there is very little taking steps towards each other – most discussions didn’t revolve around actual arguments, it was about who could make the most noise based on (very emotional) beliefs.

While there has been a quite negative prevailing mood around the time of the H5 Beta (especially at the time the trailer leaked) the noise has slowly died down since then.

The crucial point has been 343i’s reaction to the H5 beta feedback which a majority of the community perceived as 343i really listening and correcting the right things.
Even some pessimists were positively surprised – most of them acknowledging 343i’s move.

Of course there are still the usual subjects dedicating their life’s work to constantly remind us that H5 will fail miserably, that H5 doesn’t have any competitive merit at all and that 343i is the most incompetent developer of all time.

However their message is getting older and older – and the foundation they stand on thinner and thinner.

Most old time fans have realized that developing a game is not a request programme – that 343i has to satisfy different player needs and that those who want a strictly traditional Halo game are just a subgroup of many.
Most fans are happy that equal starts (everyone starts with same abilities and weapons), weapons on map and descope are back while armor abilities, weapon drops, bloom and (soon) flinch are out.

A lot of fans who didn’t (and still don’t given the choice) want Sprint in Halo were finally able to make peace with the feature after 343i announced that they will enhance base and strafe speed and offer an option to disable Sprint (and other Spartan abilities too).

My personal opinion: Reason won’t stop some people from fighting their holy war – they may have had a valid concern once, but their inability to adequately react to the very complex reality (which they refuse to acknowledge as everything comes down to classic Halo = success) and their bad attitude (one-sidedness, ignorance of progress, harsh language, no respect towards the people in charge of Halo) are slowly pushing them into a corner.
But the best message is that 343i is stealing their thunder: The H5 Beta was an excellent idea that will really help the final game, they proved the critics wrong who argued that they would never listen to their fanbase and they finally (!) made significant progress with the MCC.

With that said: Hate on, I’m not worried for H5 :slight_smile:

343 fanboy alert.

I don’t hate Halo 5, I just didn’t like the beta as much. But it’s a beta, so things can change. Maybe when the game’s released I’ll like it. If I don’t, I got the MCC at least.

I’m still going to buy Halo 5 for the campaign though. One thing I love about Halo is it’s story.

So many words just to praise 343…
Some don’t want to settle for sprint, some will love whatever has halo in its name no matter how good or bad it might be.
Do you really think you’re better than the so called “hater”?
I’m not impressed with what I’ve seen in the beta, sure it was better than H4 but it didn’t have the impact H1-3 had…it all comes down to map quality and how well the changed sprint! Regret was nice, Empire and the night version sucked…and 343 can talk about how they improved everything…they have to show us!

> 2533274904231346;2:
> 343 fanboy alert.

Checking recent posts… well, that explains it.

I’m just curious: Why do you think that’s a fanboy post?

Because my first sentence was that most critics really helped?
That I said that 343i listened or that they finally (!) made progress with the MCC (which they did)?

As a Halo fan my glass is half full - as 343i is now the developer behind Halo and we won’t get any other in the near future I’m supporting them and the community as good as I can. With actual feedback or analyses or other contributions.

> 2533274793332039;5:
> > 2533274904231346;2:
> > 343 fanboy alert.
>
>
> Checking recent posts… well, that explains it.
>
> I’m just curious: Why do you think that’s a fanboy post?
>
> Because my first sentence was that most critics really helped?
> That I said that 343i listened or that they finally (!) made progress with the MCC (which they did)?
>
> As a Halo fan my glass is half full - as 343i is now the developer behind Halo and we won’t get any other in the near future I’m supporting them and the community as good as I can. With actual feedback or analyses or other contributions.

Because your bashing people who have their own opinion and do not like Halo 5. People provide good reason as to why they won’t be buying halo 5 or why they don’t think the game is good and you automatically call it “hating”.

I never considered them having much ground anyway.

> 2533274801973487;4:
> So many words just to praise 343…
> Some don’t want to settle for sprint, some will love whatever has halo in its name no matter how good or bad it might be.
> Do you really think you’re better than the so called “hater”?
> I’m not impressed with what I’ve seen in the beta, sure it was better than H4 but it didn’t have the impact H1-3 had…it all comes down to map quality and how well the changed sprint! Regret was nice, Empire and the night version sucked…and 343 can talk about how they improved everything…they have to show us!

Feel free to explain what’s wrong with acknowledging when something changed for the better!

Are you allergic to positivity?
It sometimes seems to me that you guys are unhappy if 343i does something good… which is bizarre as they can never do good in your eyes no matter what they do.

And I don’t think I’m better than anyone. But a little flexible thinking would be really helpful for some people!

> 2533274904231346;6:
> > 2533274793332039;5:
> > > 2533274904231346;2:
> > > 343 fanboy alert.
> >
> >
> >
> > Checking recent posts… well, that explains it.
> >
> > I’m just curious: Why do you think that’s a fanboy post?
> >
> > Because my first sentence was that most critics really helped?
> > That I said that 343i listened or that they finally (!) made progress with the MCC (which they did)?
> >
> > As a Halo fan my glass is half full - as 343i is now the developer behind Halo and we won’t get any other in the near future I’m supporting them and the community as good as I can. With actual feedback or analyses or other contributions.
>
>
> Because your bashing people who have their own opinion and do not like Halo 5. People provide good reason as to why they won’t be buying halo 5 or why they don’t think the game is good and you automatically call it “hating”.

  1. I talked about a specific group of people. These people are hating as they’ve lost the ability to see different (including positive) sides of arguments, they can’t acknowledge positive changes and are constantly spreading their aggressive agenda without any tolerance of others.
    There are some users that I know by name whose posts I don’t have to read anymore… because it’s guaranteed one-sided negativity in each and every post they write - and they’re extremely dedicated in letting everyone know how much they despise 343i and H5.

  2. I never said that having one’s own opinion or criticizing 343i/H5 is a bad thing (see first sentence of my post). Actually this is very much needed in a constructive way.

> 2533274793332039;8:
> > 2533274801973487;4:
> > So many words just to praise 343…
> > Some don’t want to settle for sprint, some will love whatever has halo in its name no matter how good or bad it might be.
> > Do you really think you’re better than the so called “hater”?
> > I’m not impressed with what I’ve seen in the beta, sure it was better than H4 but it didn’t have the impact H1-3 had…it all comes down to map quality and how well the changed sprint! Regret was nice, Empire and the night version sucked…and 343 can talk about how they improved everything…they have to show us!
>
>
> Feel free to explain what’s wrong with acknowledging when something changed for the better!
>
> Are you allergic to positivity?
> It sometimes seems to me that you guys are unhappy if 343i does something good… which is bizarre as they can never do good in your eyes whatever they do.
>
> And I don’t think I’m better than anyone. But a little flexible thinking would be really helpful for some people!

we don’t know if something has changed for the better! All we have is their word (which has proven to be nothing but PR just look at what happens with H4 and MCC)
I want to get crazy for that game but 343 has to give me a reason! 343 shouldn’t just talk about those big plans (that might not even make it into the game at the end…) they have to show how good their work actually is!

> 2533274801973487;10:
> > 2533274793332039;8:
> > > 2533274801973487;4:
> > > So many words just to praise 343…
> > > Some don’t want to settle for sprint, some will love whatever has halo in its name no matter how good or bad it might be.
> > > Do you really think you’re better than the so called “hater”?
> > > I’m not impressed with what I’ve seen in the beta, sure it was better than H4 but it didn’t have the impact H1-3 had…it all comes down to map quality and how well the changed sprint! Regret was nice, Empire and the night version sucked…and 343 can talk about how they improved everything…they have to show us!
> >
> >
> >
> > Feel free to explain what’s wrong with acknowledging when something changed for the better!
> >
> > Are you allergic to positivity?
> > It sometimes seems to me that you guys are unhappy if 343i does something good… which is bizarre as they can never do good in your eyes whatever they do.
> >
> > And I don’t think I’m better than anyone. But a little flexible thinking would be really helpful for some people!
>
>
> we don’t know if something has changed for the better! All we have is their word (which has proven to be nothing but PR just look at what happens with H4 and MCC)
> I want to get crazy for that game but 343 has to give me a reason! 343 shouldn’t just talk about those big plans (that might not even make it into the game at the end…) they have to show how good their work actually is!

Seriously you’re reaching man… if they say they want to increase base and strafe speed based on the beta feedback why shouldn’t they do it?
No matter how you twist that it’s definitely positive and an improvement.

Based on the Beta alone I had the feeling that sprinting was only advantegeous in very specific situations… with the difference between base speed and sprint being even smaller in the future it’s even less of a problem. Of course we don’t know the exact changes however in this scenario it can only get better!

You’re playing it down. What ‘big plans’ are you even talking about?
We’ve never had a Beta that soon before. In fact most of the changes (like the above) are fine-tuning some numbers - I’m all for caution but that is exactly what I consider deliberately looking for the “fly in the ointment”.

“Damn, that actually sounds good - nah, it won’t be in the game, we can not trust this developer!”

Well said while the older Halo’s had a great MP the newer games (reach,4) also have great MP’s (only thing I disliked in 4 was ordinance and personal
load outs) personally I loved the feel of the beta and If I could choose I’d keep it how it was with minor tweaks and fixes.

> 2533274836969644;12:
> Well said while the older Halo’s had a great MP the newer games (reach,4) also have great MP’s (only thing I disliked in 4 was ordinance and personal
> load outs) personally I loved the feel of the beta and If I could choose I’d keep it how it was with minor tweaks and fixes.

So you just want a reskinned version of the beta?

100% agreed.

There’s starting to be more and more push back in this community against people who are disrespectful, who don’t know how to offer constructive criticism, who can’t fathom that their ideas or opinions may not spell out the one true direction for the franchise, etc. People are tired of hearing the same drivel about sprint, player population, and preorders. It’s becoming more and more apparent that most of us in this community just want to talk about Halo now, and the trolls who insist over and over that “Halo is doomed / 343 sucks” are finding less of an audience here than ever before.

We should never stop being critical of new Halo games, offering feedback, and having constructive discussion, but there are adult ways to go about doing that and useless threads like these only hurt the community. Makes us all come off as childish, ignorant, and unwilling to accept some of the realities of AAA software development.

It’s nice to see. It’s possibly a turning point for Waypoint; it may no longer be the most toxic destination for Halo on the web. It’s mostly up to us though, to rise above the crap like the first response in this thread. Who knows, maybe if this keeps up, we might even be able to get developer Q&As or something going on the forums.

Im glad that because you like these changes that you don’t care that millions upon millions of people who saw HCE, H2, and H3 as parts of their lives are unhappy. All in the name of drawing non Halo fans to Halo.

I wish I could be that selfish.

Personally I think it’s mostly the pro H5 people who display rudeness. Just look at any thread that says anything negative about 343 or h5. It will be littered with derogatory remarks made towards the OP. There will probably be atleast two comments on the first page that just say -Yoink- off.

I think most people who come here to make constructive criticisms have left due to the moderating becoming more lax. It gets old when every one one of your posts is met with 5 comments telling you you’re an idiot that should -Yoink- off.

Why these people who act like children are on a moral high horse is beyond me.

> 2535458654857735;15:
> Im glad that because you like these changes that you don’t care that millions upon millions of people who saw HCE, H2, and H3 as parts of their lives are unhappy. All in the name of drawing non Halo fans to Halo.
>
> I wish I could be that selfish.

Except that you are. You are way more selfish. Veteran Halo fans legitimately liked the beta, including me. You just won’t accept it, and you want to take that away from us. You just want years of developement undone for the purpose of having a Halo you want.

That’s the pit this community is stuck in, a civil war of sorts. Though rest assured, no matter what happens, Halo 5 will have these abilities. It will have this gameplay. If you don’t like that, then that sucks for you. Me and other people will enjoy Halo 5. Maybe see for Halo 6 if this doesn’t work out. Nothing is concrete.

By the way, you’re one to talk about selfishness. You made a thread about taking Halo multiplayer away from everyone. Just because you didn’t like it. If that’s not selfishness, I don’t know what is.

> 2535458654857735;15:
> Im glad that because you like these changes that you don’t care that millions upon millions of people who saw HCE, H2, and H3 as parts of their lives are unhappy. All in the name of drawing non Halo fans to Halo.
>
> I wish I could be that selfish.

I have played since CE as well but I understand that you cannot release a game that costs millions of dollars to make w/ the sole purpose being to please a few thousand very vocal fans who cannot face the reality that a shooter released in 2001 or 2004 would not do well if released again exactly the same in 2015. To me, it is just as much if not more selfish for you to expect 343 to stunt the growth, development, and evolution of the franchise because you think Halo should never change and everyone should have the exact same vision for the future of the franchise as you.

Halo 2 Anniversary is the game for players like yourself, who just want classic Halo w/ better graphics and nothing else. It is there, it mostly works now, ranks are coming, and any other playlist / stability issues should be ironed out soon. There is nothing stopping you from enjoying that game and living in the previous decade for as long as you want.

But that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to join you. And it’s pathetic that you think we all should.

> 2533274904231346;6:
> > 2533274793332039;5:
> > > 2533274904231346;2:
> > > 343 fanboy alert.
> >
> >
> >
> > Checking recent posts… well, that explains it.
> >
> > I’m just curious: Why do you think that’s a fanboy post?
> >
> > Because my first sentence was that most critics really helped?
> > That I said that 343i listened or that they finally (!) made progress with the MCC (which they did)?
> >
> > As a Halo fan my glass is half full - as 343i is now the developer behind Halo and we won’t get any other in the near future I’m supporting them and the community as good as I can. With actual feedback or analyses or other contributions.
>
>
> Because your bashing people who have their own opinion and do not like Halo 5. People provide good reason as to why they won’t be buying halo 5 or why they don’t think the game is good and you automatically call it “hating”.

But most of these cite previous games as some sort of self evidence that Halo 5 will “suck” I mean if you have some sort of constructive agrument that is all well and good much like the OP was saying the problem is most people have resulted to mindless rehashing of old arguments and name calling. Both of which won’t help Halo in the long run. The point of debating these things is to improve Halo as a franchise, not to see it burn to the ground because you did not like one little feature.

I think the Halo community should stop bashing each other period. We all have one thing in common and that’s that we all enjoy Halo. Period.now whether or not you like the first 3 and hated 4 and already hate 5, that’s fine. It doesn’t matter what you like or who’s opinion is better. What matters is being a community of players who have tolerance for each other and come together to voice creative opinions to make Halo better. Stop bashing each other period. Sure you will never get rid if all the trolls, but its fine cuz you can kill em all with kindness. Rant end.