Why does the Banhammer exist?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

This is NOT me asking why I got a Banhammer, I know there is a thread for that.
I am asking why the Banhammer EXISTS in the first place. I sincerely hope the community, or better yet 343i, has an actual answer to this, because I don’t think the Banhammer belongs in any game. With Halo 6 coming up, this is a discussion I think we should have.

The Banhammers sole purpose right now is punishing players that quit repeatedly.
Before you say “quitters ruin the experience of everyone else”, think about why they quit out. People quitting out is just a symptom of the actual problem. What’s ruining everyone’s experience is matchmaking failing.

The three reasons I leave games are when Matchmaking is incredibly unbalanced, I lag out or when some real-life thing came up.
The major, and most prominent reason I leave a game is the first one: when matchmaking fails.
This is not something I, as a player can control. When matchmaking fails, that is due to the complexity of fair matchmaking and how 343i has failed at delivering a model robust enough.
Why should I waste my time in matches that are pretty much lost from the start?
Do you want people to play the game? Or do you want them to get furious, quit out, and then not be able to play the game due to the Banhammer. Treating your players like that, what’s to stop them from uninstalling and not play the game altogether? Ultimately that just damages the population, actually ruining the experience of everyone. Instead of saying “quitters should be punished”, why not just admit there is a reason people quit out of games at all?

Having covered that, I realize matchmaking is extremely difficult. How do you gauge people’s proficiency, it’s basically impossible. (Not saying it can’t be better, because it probably can. I hear machine-learning would be ideal for solving a problem of this type…).
The real question is: Knowing it’s never going to be perfect, how do you improve the worst case scenario? How do you cushion poor and un-fair matchmaking?
You incentivize people to stay in the game. You don’t punish them for not staying, that is counter-productive. You want to REWARD “good behavior”.

In Halo 5: Guardians today there are three things to keep players in a game:
The end rewards, that is XP (virtually useless) and RP.
RP comes in such low numbers per game that not getting points for that one game you quit out of is a no-brainer. Why would I stick to a game I’m loosing badly, where I’m simply not having fun.
The third reason is basically; if matchmaking does horrible multiple times in a short period of time causing you to quit out, YOU get punished with a Banhammer. Again, matchmaking is completely out of your control. Basically the player gets punished for the matchmakings ineptitude, and by extension 343i’s ineptitude to create a REALLY GOOD matchmaking.

There is NOTHING in Halo 5: Guardians making it worth-while sticking through a bad game.

Instead of a Banhammer, why not have cool rewards for sticking through it.
Crazy stuff like really good-looking armor-pieces, only unlocked after staying for the full duration (minus Join-in-progress) of 200 games CONSECUTIVELY.
Imagine the perseverance and sheer luck of getting that; sticking through A LOT of bad games mixed with not a single lag-out. Imagine getting a better looking armor-set of that for doing it with solo-queue only! Achillies would be worthless in comparison.
Imagine what other milestones you could hit while sticking through games!

So tell me seriously, why does the Banhammer exist?

P.S. What are your thoughts on this? Why do you have DNF-matches? What made you leave a game?

#2

> 2535446745236801;1:
> This is NOT me asking why I got a Banhammer, I know there is a thread for that.
> I am asking why the Banhammer EXISTS in the first place.I sincerely hope the community, or better yet 343i, has an actual answer to this, because I don’t think the Banhammer belongs in any game.

Because people misbehave. And that small number of people shouldn’t get to disrupt the experience of everyone who is playing by the rules. Cheating, quitting, network manipulation, betraying, idling all have negative effects on everyone else in the match. Acting badly does and should have consequences.

> With Halo 6 coming up, this is a discussion I think we should have.

If this is about Halo 6 there are plenty of wishlist threads in GD.

> The Banhammers sole purpose right now is punishing players that quit repeatedly.

No, it’s not. Quitters are but one of the malcontents that face the wrath of the hammer.

> Before you say “quitters ruin the experience of everyone else”, think about why they quit out

Quite a variety of reasons all of which are irrelevant.

> . People quitting out is just a symptom of the actual problem. What’s ruining everyone’s experience is matchmaking failing The three reasons I leave games are when Matchmaking is incredibly unbalanced

And even if you do happen to be put in a bad match you quitting screws everybody on your team. That is also very subjective that it is meaningless. I’ve seen people complain about facing platinums when they were a gold or plat 5 when they were plat 2.
.

> , I lag out or

Which still has a negative impact on everyone in the match and can be ‘faked’ in order to avoid consequences for quitting.

> when some real-life thing came up.

This is the only reason I quit matches and it happens rarely enough that I haven’t been banned form H5. If I suspect something might happen that means I’ll have to quit I just don’t play.

> The major, and most prominent reason I leave a game is the first one: when matchmaking fails. This is not something I, as a player can control. When matchmaking fails, that is due to the complexity of fair matchmaking and how 343i has failed at delivering a model robust enough.

Even if that were true that doesn’t excuse negative behavior. I shouldn’t have to be put on a team where you quit because you think you’re going to lose and then I have my team weakened as I continue the match. 343 are continuing to work on improving the matchmaking system you read Zaedynfel’s matchmaking threads for more information.

> Why should I waste my time in matches that are pretty much lost from the start?

Why waste time playing at all? You either show consideration for the other players in the match or you don’t. If you don’t there are consequences. I have many, many stories about comebacks and hard pressed wins as any other player does and should.

> Do you want people to play the game? Or do you want them to get furious, quit out, and then not be able to play the game due to the Banhammer.\

I’d rather people show some consideration for their fellow players.

> Treating your players like that, what’s to stop them from uninstalling and not play the game altogether?Ultimately that just damages the population, actually ruining the experience of everyone

If they are quitting often enough that the are regularly getting banned than it isn’t a great loss in my opinion. They are routinely making the game worse for everyone involved.

> . Instead of saying “quitters should be punished”, why not just admit there is a reason people quit out of games at all?Having covered that, I realize matchmaking is extremely difficult. How do you gauge people’s proficiency, it’s basically impossible. (Not saying it can’t be better, because it probably can. I hear machine-learning would be ideal for solving a problem of this type…).The real question is: Knowing it’s never going to be perfect, how do you improve the worst case scenario? How do you cushion poor and un-fair matchmaking?

or you can do both. Treat the problems as they come and slam the hammer down at the people who are quitting, griefing, idling, or the like. If you want to discusss matchmaking then feel free to use zaedynfel’s thread.

> You incentivize people to stay in the game.

You should need to encourage people to do something fun. It’s a game.

> You don’t punish them for not staying, that is counter-productive.

Not really. People act badly, there are consequences. That is life.

> You want to REWARD “good behavior”

A small number of people are ruining the experience of others and those actions have consequences. The reward is being able to play the game without the people who are dragging down the experience.

> In Halo 5: Guardians today there are three things to keep players in a game:
> The end rewards, that is XP (virtually useless)

Tell that to the 152s…

> and RP.
> RP comes in such low numbers per game that not getting points for that one game you quit out of is a no-brainer. Why would I stick to a game I’m loosing badly, where I’m simply not having fun.

and tell that to the people who are still trying to finish their req collections.

> The third reason is basically; if matchmaking does horrible multiple times in a short period of time causing you to quit out, YOU get punished with a Banhammer. Again,

Why do you keep blaming matchmaking? Even in a perfect system you will lose roughly half your games and that is your last twenty
.

> matchmaking is completely out of your control. Basically the player gets punished for the matchmakings ineptitude, and by extension 343i’s ineptitude to create a REALLY GOOD matchmaking.

Yes insult people that helps.

> There is NOTHING in Halo 5: Guardians making it worth-while sticking through a bad game.

Feel free to keep quitting and keep getting banned.

> Instead of a Banhammer, why not have cool rewards for sticking through it.
> Crazy stuff like really good-looking armor-pieces, only unlocked after staying for the full duration (minus Join-in-progress) of 200 games CONSECUTIVELY.Imagine the perseverance and sheer luck of getting that; sticking through A LOT of bad games mixed with not a single lag-out. Imagine getting a better looking armor-set of that for doing it with solo-queue only! Achillies would be worthless in comparison.Imagine what other milestones you could hit while sticking through games!

That is an interesting idea, but why not do both?

> So tell me seriously, why does the Banhammer exist?

Because the majority shouldn’t have their experience ruined by the people who quit, grief, idle, etc and negative actions should have consequences.
So swing away;

#3

It exist to punish those who deserve it due their behavior,also it gives monitors a reason to post GIFs and images,but thats just a nice little side effect.

#4

It’s to discourage players from being yoinks online. Which there is plenty of them already so without a banhammer there could and probably would be even more of them. I have played a lot of Halo over the years and i can say for sure if you have been banned, especially those who have be banned for long periods of time as they have been banned a lot, have earned them. Yes I have quit games and yes I have had to go idle and was kicked for it from games due to real life stuff… I have only been banned once from H5 for a very short time and have been banned from MCC once for quitting H3BTB one flag and lagged out games. The banhammer is very very lenient. All you have to do is complete plenty of games between quits it seems to me. The banhammer is necessary IMO. It’s not that hard to finish games and not betray players(at least excessively as I have betrayed before mostly on accident but very occasionally on purpose as retaliation.

#5

> 2535446745236801;1:
> Having covered that, I realize matchmaking is extremely difficult. How do you gauge people’s proficiency, it’s basically impossible. (Not saying it can’t be better, because it probably can. I hear machine-learning would be ideal for solving a problem of this type…).

Keying in on this part because it’s the crux of the issue. Matchmaking is difficult to get perfect, especially for a 2+ year old game like Halo 5. It’s not the algorithm, though; that actually works quite well and has since 2007. That’s just math. The problem has to do with the number of available players. In a perfect world, there would be enough players of every skill level in every region to allow everyone fair and fast matchmaking. But that’s not reality. The reality is that most remaining Halo 5 players are in North America, and other regions have problems with population. Additionally, the global population is so small now that without widening the skill gap that players are allowed to match within, really high skill players wouldn’t be able to find matches at all. This was a problem a few months ago and the system was changed to allow such players to actually play the game. It came at the cost of slightly increased occurrence of unfair matches. 343i decided it was the lesser of two evils.

Blaming the matchmaker as the source for the majority of quitting is shifting personal responsibility. The game doesn’t quit for you. You think 343i’s model of matchmaking is inadequate? It’s the same matchmaking formula that pretty much every competitive multiplayer game uses and has used since like 2007. It does the best it can with the players available. Would you rather not play a match at all than play against a better team? Besides, consider what would happen if Halo 5 had no banhammer. Griefing, idling, and betraying would increase in prevalence. The number of games that complete without quitting would increase, independent of whether a completion incentive were in the game. There really isn’t any evidence that suggests a carrot would work more than a stick when it comes to dissuading quitters. I’ve been in my fair share of mismatched games, and I never quit.

#6

I just feel like people now a days know exactly what they did to get themselves banned, whether it is a couple hours or permanently, they just play the part of ignorance and revert to blaming others for their actions. I’ve played halo for almost 15 years now and have never been banned.

#7

> 2535446745236801;1:
> This is NOT me asking why I got a Banhammer, I know there is a thread for that.
> I am asking why the Banhammer EXISTS in the first place. I sincerely hope the community, or better yet 343i, has an actual answer to this, because I don’t think the Banhammer belongs in any game. With Halo 6 coming up, this is a discussion I think we should have.
> The Banhammers sole purpose right now is punishing players that quit repeatedly.
> Before you say “quitters ruin the experience of everyone else”, think about why they quit out. People quitting out is just a symptom of the actual problem. What’s ruining everyone’s experience is matchmaking failing.
>
> The three reasons I leave games are when Matchmaking is incredibly unbalanced, I lag out or when some real-life thing came up.
> The major, and most prominent reason I leave a game is the first one: when matchmaking fails.
> This is not something I, as a player can control. When matchmaking fails, that is due to the complexity of fair matchmaking and how 343i has failed at delivering a model robust enough.
> Why should I waste my time in matches that are pretty much lost from the start?
> Do you want people to play the game? Or do you want them to get furious, quit out, and then not be able to play the game due to the Banhammer. Treating your players like that, what’s to stop them from uninstalling and not play the game altogether? Ultimately that just damages the population, actually ruining the experience of everyone. Instead of saying “quitters should be punished”, why not just admit there is a reason people quit out of games at all?
> Having covered that, I realize matchmaking is extremely difficult. How do you gauge people’s proficiency, it’s basically impossible. (Not saying it can’t be better, because it probably can. I hear machine-learning would be ideal for solving a problem of this type…).
> The real question is: Knowing it’s never going to be perfect, how do you improve the worst case scenario? How do you cushion poor and un-fair matchmaking?
> You incentivize people to stay in the game. You don’t punish them for not staying, that is counter-productive. You want to REWARD “good behavior”.
> In Halo 5: Guardians today there are three things to keep players in a game:
> The end rewards, that is XP (virtually useless) and RP.
> RP comes in such low numbers per game that not getting points for that one game you quit out of is a no-brainer. Why would I stick to a game I’m loosing badly, where I’m simply not having fun.
> The third reason is basically; if matchmaking does horrible multiple times in a short period of time causing you to quit out, YOU get punished with a Banhammer. Again, matchmaking is completely out of your control. Basically the player gets punished for the matchmakings ineptitude, and by extension 343i’s ineptitude to create a REALLY GOOD matchmaking.
>
> There is NOTHING in Halo 5: Guardians making it worth-while sticking through a bad game.
>
> Instead of a Banhammer, why not have cool rewards for sticking through it.
> Crazy stuff like really good-looking armor-pieces, only unlocked after staying for the full duration (minus Join-in-progress) of 200 games CONSECUTIVELY.
> Imagine the perseverance and sheer luck of getting that; sticking through A LOT of bad games mixed with not a single lag-out. Imagine getting a better looking armor-set of that for doing it with solo-queue only! Achillies would be worthless in comparison.
> Imagine what other milestones you could hit while sticking through games!
> So tell me seriously, why does the Banhammer exist?
>
> P.S. What are your thoughts on this? Why do you have DNF-matches? What made you leave a game?

Hermit touched on literally everything. But, quick thing about quitting. You are given a few “free” quits if you have any of those issues come up. However, if you are getting multiple bad matches in a row, the problem might be you having a bad day, not matchmaking being crap. There’s no other reason you should be quitting multiple times in a row anyway, unless you keep playing the same fireteam over and over for some reason and are repeatedly getting your -Yoink- kicked.

#8

Need to lay off the banhammer till you all get the lag figured out its awful

#9

> 2535442757038211;8:
> Need to lay off the banhammer till you all get the lag figured out its awful

Please don’t revive old topics thanks