Why does Halo 5 get Crap for Trying to be New?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Why does Halo 5 get carpped on for new features and inivations? This has always bewildered me. Fans of Call of Duty crap on the games for practically being a rehash of their previous game. However, Halo fans only seem to want a new Halo 3. Why? Why is it so bad for a company to try new things like sprint, ground pound, spartan charge, warzone, etc…? Sure Bungie intended for multiplayer to focus on their “Golden Triangle”, but why does that have to be the norm for every Halo game to follow. Even Bungie themzelves evolved the game past the “Golden Triangle” with armor abilities and duel wielding. If 343 just kept on making Halo 3 over and over again, it would get old fast. Even the fans would ditch the franchise. To the players who -Yoink- on everything new feature in Halo 5: Why do you want a rehash of Halo 3?

EDIT: For those who say that I’m just a new Halo fanboy: I’m not. In fact Halo:CE was the game that got me to buy an xbox in the first place.

2

> 2533274802862198;1:
> Why does Halo 5 get carpped on for new features and inivations? This has always bewildered me. Fans of Call of Duty crap on the games for practically being a rehash of their previous game. However, Halo fans only seem to want a new Halo 3. Why? Why is it so bad for a company to try new things like sprint, ground pound, spartan charge, warzone, etc…? Sure Bungie intended for multiplayer to focus on their “Golden Triangle”, but why does that have to be the norm for every Halo game to follow. Even Bungie themzelves evolved the game past the “Golden Triangle” with armor abilities and duel wielding. If 343 just kept on making Halo 3 over and over again, it would get old fast. Even the fans would ditch the franchise. To the players who -Yoink- on everything new feature in Halo 5: Why do you want a rehash of Halo 3?

Because to most (including myself) that was the golden age of halo,and Halo having abilities that are similar to things that are in other fps,is not new, its copying or borrowing

3

It isn’t that I think new things are bad, it’s that bad things are bad, even if they’re new.

4

Every Halo tried changing something. Every Halo was met with varying levels of criticism.

5

I personally enjoy every aspect of 5 and even tho I didn’t play the original 3 much but halo 3, I quite enjoyed but that was before I lost that account due to forgetting my password. Not the point Tho. I got very fond of 3 but I’m very welcoming to all these new abilities and things they bring in. It’s rather I guess exciting since it won’t just be a remake.

6

Many fans claim to not want halo 2.5 or halo 3.5.

Then they go on to suggest all
armor abilities be removed. Sprint be removed. Smart scope be remove. Clamber be removed. Movement speed reduced to halo 1-3 speeds. Jump height reset to halo 1-3 as well and maps reduced in size to compensate for slower base movement. because all of these just are “not halo”.

They want new weapons and maps for the same halo game over and over. They don’t want a changed game. They want dlc.

A massive multiplayer paid dlc for halo 2 anniversary could go a long way. If there is as many people waiting for classic halo as the posters here claim that could revitalize the MCC now that marchmaking works.

There isnt going to be a halo like 1-3 again. But there could be a playlist or MCC DLC to keep those gamers that want new content on dated gameplay happy.

7

> 2533274830166194;2:
> > 2533274802862198;1:
> > Why does Halo 5 get carpped on for new features and inivations? This has always bewildered me. Fans of Call of Duty crap on the games for practically being a rehash of their previous game. However, Halo fans only seem to want a new Halo 3. Why? Why is it so bad for a company to try new things like sprint, ground pound, spartan charge, warzone, etc…? Sure Bungie intended for multiplayer to focus on their “Golden Triangle”, but why does that have to be the norm for every Halo game to follow. Even Bungie themzelves evolved the game past the “Golden Triangle” with armor abilities and duel wielding. If 343 just kept on making Halo 3 over and over again, it would get old fast. Even the fans would ditch the franchise. To the players who -Yoink- on everything new feature in Halo 5: Why do you want a rehash of Halo 3?
>
>
> Because to most (including myself) that was the golden age of halo,and Halo having abilities that are similar to things that are in other fps,is not new, its copying or borrowing

Every game copies or borrows from another. Our beloved Firefight was first called Horde Mode in Gears of War. They all take elements from each other and try to incorporate them.
Anytime I see the “Golden Age of Halo” comment I’m reminded of 2 things. One: The person sounds like that guy in his 40’s who still wears his high school letter jacket talking about his 4 touchdowns in one game like it was yesterday. They’ve never been able to let themselves get past that one moment in time.
The other thing I’m reminded of is the amount of hate on the Halo 3 forums. People hated it so much. That it wasn’t anything like Halo 2 (I beg to differ), how equipment ruined the game (hahaha), and how it was so BR reliant (that’s totally true), among other gripes.
So at the end of the day I conclude this. Haters will always dominate the forums, because it’s just what they do. And a game will be universally loved after 2 more installments are released.

8

  1. Most of these can hardly be considered “new” mechanics. They’ve been popular for the past decade, and even before that they could be found present in certain niche shooters. GunZ: The Duel came out around 2004 and that game had wall running long before Titanfall was ever conceived as an idea. I don’t care about Halo “evolving”, whatever the -Yoink- that actually means, I care about it improving upon the experience I’ve already come to enjoy. But -Yoink- it, throw in prone and leaning and teleporting and whatever other crazy ideas people can come up with, because pursuing a concept as arbitrary and subjective as “progress” is far more important than simply pleasing the fans.

  2. Why is it so wrong that people already like a product for what it is? And where do new players get off coming into the franchise and demanding that everyone who is already here adapts to what they want, and implying people are primitive for not wanting to do so? This subtle implication that people have to be on board with change is just illogical and silly.

  3. Just watch the entirety of JonTron’s review of Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. Man, the proclamations made by “the lord of gaming” would be amazing satire if they didn’t unfortunately end up being entirely serious.

9

> 2533274815582829;7:
> > 2533274830166194;2:
> > > 2533274802862198;1:
> > > Why does Halo 5 get carpped on for new features and inivations? This has always bewildered me. Fans of Call of Duty crap on the games for practically being a rehash of their previous game. However, Halo fans only seem to want a new Halo 3. Why? Why is it so bad for a company to try new things like sprint, ground pound, spartan charge, warzone, etc…? Sure Bungie intended for multiplayer to focus on their “Golden Triangle”, but why does that have to be the norm for every Halo game to follow. Even Bungie themzelves evolved the game past the “Golden Triangle” with armor abilities and duel wielding. If 343 just kept on making Halo 3 over and over again, it would get old fast. Even the fans would ditch the franchise. To the players who -Yoink- on everything new feature in Halo 5: Why do you want a rehash of Halo 3?
> >
> >
> > Because to most (including myself) that was the golden age of halo,and Halo having abilities that are similar to things that are in other fps,is not new, its copying or borrowing
>
>
> Every game copies or borrows from another. Our beloved Firefight was first called Horde Mode in Gears of War. They all take elements from each other and try to incorporate them.
> Anytime I see the “Golden Age of Halo” comment I’m reminded of 2 things. One: The person sounds like that guy in his 40’s who still wears his high school letter jacket talking about his 4 touchdowns in one game like it was yesterday. They’ve never been able to let themselves get past that one moment in time.
> The other thing I’m reminded of is the amount of hate on the Halo 3 forums. People hated it so much. That it wasn’t anything like Halo 2 (I beg to differ), how equipment ruined the game (hahaha), and how it was so BR reliant (that’s totally true), among other gripes.
> So at the end of the day I conclude this. Haters will always dominate the forums, because it’s just what they do. And a game will be universally loved after 2 more installments are released.

This.

Every game has its ups and downs, and the farther away from it you get the more nostalgic it becomes. Nostalgia has the power to wioe away the bad, which makes the memories from Halo 3 or Halo 2 flawless. That’s not to say Halo 3 wasn’t really the golden age of Halo (it was), but back then there was a whole lot of complaining on the firums as well.

I think Reach is a good referrence point to a game where new mechanics aren’t mired in nodtalgia, though. Nobody remembers Armor Abilities as a solid balanced feature. Spartan Abilities, on the other hand, being equally available to all, will IMO be remembered better in retrospect. We might even forget that Halo 5 launched without a home for Social gamers, or that it had less than half of the gametypes in any other game- if only because the moment to moment is engaging, addictive and competitive in a way that respects Halo’s roots. Halo 3 managed to do both Social and Competitive justice, but that’s not to say Halo 5 is a complete failure or that it’s going to be remembered as one 10 years from now.

10

> 2533274815582829;7:
> > 2533274830166194;2:
> > > 2533274802862198;1:
> > > Why does Halo 5 get carpped on for new features and inivations? This has always bewildered me. Fans of Call of Duty crap on the games for practically being a rehash of their previous game. However, Halo fans only seem to want a new Halo 3. Why? Why is it so bad for a company to try new things like sprint, ground pound, spartan charge, warzone, etc…? Sure Bungie intended for multiplayer to focus on their “Golden Triangle”, but why does that have to be the norm for every Halo game to follow. Even Bungie themzelves evolved the game past the “Golden Triangle” with armor abilities and duel wielding. If 343 just kept on making Halo 3 over and over again, it would get old fast. Even the fans would ditch the franchise. To the players who -Yoink- on everything new feature in Halo 5: Why do you want a rehash of Halo 3?
> >
> >
> > Because to most (including myself) that was the golden age of halo,and Halo having abilities that are similar to things that are in other fps,is not new, its copying or borrowing
>
>
> Every game copies or borrows from another. Our beloved Firefight was first called Horde Mode in Gears of War. They all take elements from each other and try to incorporate them.
> Anytime I see the “Golden Age of Halo” comment I’m reminded of 2 things. One: The person sounds like that guy in his 40’s who still wears his high school letter jacket talking about his 4 touchdowns in one game like it was yesterday. They’ve never been able to let themselves get past that one moment in time.
> The other thing I’m reminded of is the amount of hate on the Halo 3 forums. People hated it so much. That it wasn’t anything like Halo 2 (I beg to differ), how equipment ruined the game (hahaha), and how it was so BR reliant (that’s totally true), among other gripes.
> So at the end of the day I conclude this. Haters will always dominate the forums, because it’s just what they do. And a game will be universally loved after 2 more installments are released.

No matter how much better or worse future halo games are,I still won’t consider halo 5 a good game,I might play it alot but that doesn’t mean I enjoy it like I did previous games and it has nothing to do with hate it’s all personal preference

11

The problem is this:
simply put halo is trying to be something it isn’t

The additions to the game are poorly implemented and detract from halo rather than enrich it
this is evident by halos steady decline since reach

If all these new features were enriching the game and as enticing as 343i and those who defend them blindly would have you believe we would see the popularity of halo and it’s player base rise and instead we have seen it fall lower and lower with every halo game since 3

Halo added things from other franchises in an attempt to “evolve” and steal players from other franchises, however because these new features either A simply don’t work (in halo or in practice) and B were poorly implemented
Sadly all that has been done is alienate both the veteran halo players and new players from other franchises alike

call of duty and battlefield do the new “evolved” elements better and as such those players have since gone back to their franchises of choice
Old halo games do the halo elements better than the new ones and as such veteran players either went back to old games or abandoned the franchise entirely

and what you are left with is H5 a game that dropped out of the top ten most played games less than a month after the game launched and needed seven months of “free content” and it being free for two weeks to bring it back to where it sits now which I believe is 6th on the top ten list last I saw

Halo didn’t need to evolve
Halo was fine the way it was

12

> 2533274832130936;11:
> The problem is this:
> simply put halo is trying to be something it isn’t
>
> The additions to the game are poorly implemented and detract from halo rather than enrich it
> this is evident by halos steady decline since reach
>
> If all these new features were enriching the game and as enticing as 343i and those who defend them blindly would have you believe we would see the popularity of halo and it’s player base rise and instead we have seen it fall lower and lower with every halo game since 3
>
> Halo added things from other franchises in an attempt to “evolve” and steal players from other franchises, however because these new features either A simply don’t work (in halo or in practice) and B were poorly implemented
> Sadly all that has been done is alienate both the veteran halo players and new players from other franchises alike
>
> call of duty and battlefield do the new “evolved” elements better and as such those players have since gone back to their franchises of choice
> Old halo games do the halo elements better than the new ones and as such veteran players either went back to old games or abandoned the franchise entirely
>
> and what you are left with is H5 a game that dropped out of the top ten most played games less than a month after the game launched and needed seven months of “free content” and it being free for two weeks to bring it back to where it sits now which I believe is 6th on the top ten list last I saw
>
> Halo didn’t need to evolve
> Halo was fine the way it was

Agree 100 percent

13

> 2533274819302824;8:
> 1. Most of these can hardly be considered “new” mechanics. They’ve been popular for the past decade, and even before that they could be found present in certain niche shooters. GunZ: The Duel came out around 2004 and that game had wall running long before Titanfall was ever conceived as an idea. I don’t care about Halo “evolving”, whatever the -Yoink- that actually means, I care about it improving upon the experience I’ve already come to enjoy. But -Yoink- it, throw in prone and leaning and teleporting and whatever other crazy ideas people can come up with, because pursuing a concept as arbitrary and subjective as “progress” is far more important than simply pleasing the fans.
>
> 2. Why is it so wrong that people already like a product for what it is? And where do new players get off coming into the franchise and demanding that everyone who is already here adapts to what they want, and implying people are primitive for not wanting to do so? This subtle implication that people have to be on board with change is just illogical and silly.
>
> 3. Just watch the entirety of JonTron’s review of Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. Man, the proclamations made by “the lord of gaming” would be amazing satire if it didn’t unfortunately end up being entirely serious.

(Slow clap)

14

Because it’s not halo 2/3. That’s why. The cod community is a perfect example for a game being remade over and over again. I saw gameplay from both black ops 3 and advanced warfare and they looked identical, the only difference was the fact one had wall running and the other didn’t. If 343 continuously made a halo 3 copy every time, then it would get so boring and it would only repel new fans away because of how basic and dumbed down it is from all of these new abilities.

That’s my thoughts on why people hate halo 5. It’s not like halo 3 and people want a halo 3 rehash every year

15

> 2533274819302824;8:
> 1. Most of these can hardly be considered “new” mechanics. They’ve been popular for the past decade, and even before that they could be found present in certain niche shooters. GunZ: The Duel came out around 2004 and that game had wall running long before Titanfall was ever conceived as an idea. I don’t care about Halo “evolving”, whatever the -Yoink- that actually means, I care about it improving upon the experience I’ve already come to enjoy. But -Yoink- it, throw in prone and leaning and teleporting and whatever other crazy ideas people can come up with, because pursuing a concept as arbitrary and subjective as “progress” is far more important than simply pleasing the fans.
>
> 2. Why is it so wrong that people already like a product for what it is? And where do new players get off coming into the franchise and demanding that everyone who is already here adapts to what they want, and implying people are primitive for not wanting to do so? This subtle implication that people have to be on board with change is just illogical and silly.
>
> 3. Just watch the entirety of JonTron’s review of Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. Man, the proclamations made by “the lord of gaming” would be amazing satire if they didn’t unfortunately end up being entirely serious.

To address your second point, they can do that because they outnumber the fans who grew up with the old Halo, I played my first Halo game when I was 12, and by that point Halo 3 had just come out. The people who were in middle and high school when Halo:CE came out are in their 30’s, even those who were that age when Halo 2 came out are getting old. The majority of people stop playing once they get older. It is younger people who constantly fill the void left by player “aging out.” These kids have grown up with COD. COD has outsold Halo since Modern Warfare 2 came out in 2009. When kids think of an fps, they think of COD. That is their definition of what an FPS is. Other companies, 343 included, have to cater to this group to some extent so that they can keep up a player base. 343 is a business. As such, their number one goal isn’t to make a game that pleases the long term fans, it’s to make a profit like every other business, and to please the greatest number of customers so that they buy the next one. A quick google search shows that Halo 5 was well received by critics. Almost all of the reviews are at least 8/10. Halo: CE wouldn’t sell well if it was released for the first time today. Kids would complain that it is too slow, there isn’t sprint, there isn’t some way to look down the sights, and the lack of literally everything else COD has put into all of their games over the last five years.

16

> 2533274802862198;1:
> Why does Halo 5 get carpped on for new features and inivations? This has always bewildered me. Fans of Call of Duty crap on the games for practically being a rehash of their previous game. However, Halo fans only seem to want a new Halo 3. Why? Why is it so bad for a company to try new things like sprint, ground pound, spartan charge, warzone, etc…? Sure Bungie intended for multiplayer to focus on their “Golden Triangle”, but why does that have to be the norm for every Halo game to follow. Even Bungie themzelves evolved the game past the “Golden Triangle” with armor abilities and duel wielding. If 343 just kept on making Halo 3 over and over again, it would get old fast. Even the fans would ditch the franchise. To the players who -Yoink- on everything new feature in Halo 5: Why do you want a rehash of Halo 3?

Because pretty much everything they’ve added isn’t really new, innovative, exciting or not reaching its full potential.

Sprint and ADS in disguise isn’t new or innovative, or exciting.
Warzone is far from its full potential, like, really far off.

Yatzhee said in his review that Halo 5 does nothing new, or was that when he listed it as the blandest game of 2015?. He’s right if you actually venture outside the Halo-zone and test other things.

> 2535473635314008;6:
> Many fans claim to not want halo 2.5 or halo 3.5.
>
> Then they go on to suggest all
> armor abilities be removed. Sprint be removed. Smart scope be remove. Clamber be removed. Movement speed reduced to halo 1-3 speeds. Jump height reset to halo 1-3 as well and maps reduced in size to compensate for slower base movement. because all of these just are “not halo”.
>
> They want new weapons and maps for the same halo game over and over. They don’t want a changed game. They want dlc.
>
> A massive multiplayer paid dlc for halo 2 anniversary could go a long way. If there is as many people waiting for classic halo as the posters here claim that could revitalize the MCC now that marchmaking works.
>
> There isnt going to be a halo like 1-3 again. But there could be a playlist or MCC DLC to keep those gamers that want new content on dated gameplay happy.

Oh lordy.

I love posts like this.

Now, would you be so kind as to show us the standardised list of mechanics to add or change in order to increment the sequelness of a franchise by one point?
If new maps and weapons with upgraded graohics amount to a whole 0,5 increment, where’s the rest? Does this system also incorporate the removal of content? I mean, with all the content cut from Halo 4 to now, wouldn’t we be going backwards by a lot, or did i343 compensate that decrease in sequelness by implementing ground pound and slide along with stabilators and thrusters?

It’s also kind of amazing that you assume anyone at this point is interested in posting an elaborate list of suggestions on how they want their Halo, when it has been proven time and again that most of the times it’s either Halo X.5 or ignored completely. No matter what they suggest.
Not even that, but you also assume that anyone who wants things removed wouldn’t be open to other ideas.
Most are not interested in the suggestions themselves but more interested in the lack of them.

You don’t know what anyone wants, especially not after one or two posts.

Before you go ask for my suggestions to bash or completely ignore, go dig in the 300+ page sprint thread, they were posted twice and quoted once. Funny thing is that those asking didn’t even acknowledge them, while someone from the outside of the conversation butted in and quoted the suggestions.

So, if you please, the list for required changes to make a sequel.

17

Because you play a sequel because you liked what the previous games did. Halo 5 is too different at this point to become even comparable. I want Halo to be Halo you can add to it, but changing makes it a different game all together.

18

> 2533274832130936;11:
> The problem is this:
> simply put halo is trying to be something it isn’t
>
> The additions to the game are poorly implemented and detract from halo rather than enrich it
> this is evident by halos steady decline since reach
>
> If all these new features were enriching the game and as enticing as 343i and those who defend them blindly would have you believe we would see the popularity of halo and it’s player base rise and instead we have seen it fall lower and lower with every halo game since 3
>
> Halo added things from other franchises in an attempt to “evolve” and steal players from other franchises, however because these new features either A simply don’t work (in halo or in practice) and B were poorly implemented
> Sadly all that has been done is alienate both the veteran halo players and new players from other franchises alike
>
> call of duty and battlefield do the new “evolved” elements better and as such those players have since gone back to their franchises of choice
> Old halo games do the halo elements better than the new ones and as such veteran players either went back to old games or abandoned the franchise entirely
>
> and what you are left with is H5 a game that dropped out of the top ten most played games less than a month after the game launched and needed seven months of “free content” and it being free for two weeks to bring it back to where it sits now which I believe is 6th on the top ten list last I saw
>
> Halo didn’t need to evolve
> Halo was fine the way it was

I disagree with that last statement. Halo does need to evolve, lest it become stale and the same thing over and over. However, it evolved in very nearly the worst way possible.

19

I think people dislike it because there is nothing new about it and they are worried about their beloved franchise. it simply copies other games mechanics that have existed for years. New things are fine but changing it to the point where it starts to effect core game play is usually a poor choice, sometimes it works and others it doesn’t.

Personally I don’t really care anymore about sprint but I’ve never felt it fit. The amount of effort 343 has to keep putting in each game to try and balance the problems sprint bring shows it doesn’t fit 100% right in the sandbox to begin with but enough about sprint I’m slowly getting over it.

Spartan charge is an example of a change that breaks balance, it throws a lot of skill out the window by adding 1 hit deshield that can be used from a decent distance without any effort. Now days it’s not happening as frequent which makes me very happy and I’m enjoy Halo 5 again.

Thrusters perfectly fine, they work really well and add a layer of skill. Good job 343.

Smart scope is my biggest issue with change as it does increase autos spread slightly and overall doesn’t really feel like it fits. Maybe I’m just to old school in this sense but aiming down sights to be was always reserved for precision weapons. That’s what a life of UT, Quake, Halo and all my old arena shooters have engraved it into my brain.

Req system puts a bit of a dampener on my excitement because they have basically weakened all base vehicles to make room for the mythic and higher req vehicles in the sandbox. It feels like vehicles are paper now and they are almost none existent in arena unlike previous games prior to 343.

Another problem would be aiming, the game changed how it’s aiming mechanics work and no you can’t get it exactly like Halo 3 with the new settings. This seems to make the game less consistent however I’ve pretty much made 2 settings on my controller simply for this inconsistency so I just flick a switch when Halo 5 decided to feel different.

Honestly Halo 5 is actually a good game but it feels like a dangerous change to some and 343 have some pretty big shoes to fill.

20

> 2533274832089275;15:
> > 2533274819302824;8:
> > 1. Most of these can hardly be considered “new” mechanics. They’ve been popular for the past decade, and even before that they could be found present in certain niche shooters. GunZ: The Duel came out around 2004 and that game had wall running long before Titanfall was ever conceived as an idea. I don’t care about Halo “evolving”, whatever the -Yoink- that actually means, I care about it improving upon the experience I’ve already come to enjoy. But -Yoink- it, throw in prone and leaning and teleporting and whatever other crazy ideas people can come up with, because pursuing a concept as arbitrary and subjective as “progress” is far more important than simply pleasing the fans.
> >
> > 2. Why is it so wrong that people already like a product for what it is? And where do new players get off coming into the franchise and demanding that everyone who is already here adapts to what they want, and implying people are primitive for not wanting to do so? This subtle implication that people have to be on board with change is just illogical and silly.
> >
> > 3. Just watch the entirety of JonTron’s review of Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. Man, the proclamations made by “the lord of gaming” would be amazing satire if they didn’t unfortunately end up being entirely serious.
>
>
> To address your second point, they can do that because they outnumber the fans who grew up with the old Halo, I played my first Halo game when I was 12, and by that point Halo 3 had just come out. The people who were in middle and high school when Halo:CE came out are in their 30’s, even those who were that age when Halo 2 came out are getting old. The majority of people stop playing once they get older. It is younger people who constantly fill the void left by player “aging out.” These kids have grown up with COD. COD has outsold Halo since Modern Warfare 2 came out in 2009. When kids think of an fps, they think of COD. That is their definition of what an FPS is. Other companies, 343 included, have to cater to this group to some extent so that they can keep up a player base. 343 is a business. As such, their number one goal isn’t to make a game that pleases the long term fans, it’s to make a profit like every other business, and to please the greatest number of customers so that they buy the next one. A quick google search shows that Halo 5 was well received by critics. Almost all of the reviews are at least 8/10. Halo: CE wouldn’t sell well if it was released for the first time today. Kids would complain that it is too slow, there isn’t sprint, there isn’t some way to look down the sights, and the lack of literally everything else COD has put into all of their games over the last five years.

Overwatch, DOOM & CSGO don’t have sprint (except 1 character in Overwatch) or ADS on anything other than precision weapons.