Why does everyone want BR starts?

I don’t post often but I’ve been a long time halo fan and I am currently pleased with the direction infinite is going! Normally I would agree that BR starts is the only want to play halo but that is more of the case in MCC. In Infinite with the way the BR and AR are balanced it would be horrible to have BR starts. At this point the BR is Mid to long range only due to slow fire rate. It is outgunned by any close range engagement. Unlike in halo 2, 3, or 4 where the BR is viable at all ranges. The commando is a little better at mid/short but not much with that kick. So BR starts would make most engaments either far or short with sidearms and no mid range gameplay. Also the current range on the AR might feel a little far on the small maps but in BTB it will feel underpowered so I would say we should wait until we get bigger maps before we go rushing in begging for an AR range nerf. I believe headshort multipler nerf ONLY (maybe not even that much) is something that is more realistic and does not take away from finally having a decent AR in Halo.

Because of how much they’ve been crutching on the br since halo 2, and how the magnum is so popular. fast kills with headshots, its the reason why bloom was removed and the magnum became a overpowered beast in reach.

There is a reason why people are screaming for it, its because they don’t want anything to change, they want the same thing over and over because “its halo” but halo has always changed because keeping a game the same way for 20 years is stale, stale as a year old piece of gram cracker.

“halo is halo” is such a loose term that the people who only want headshots and br slayers don’t really know what it means

I agree. The BR in Infinite also is the easiest precision weapon to use in terms of aim assist, so that would be another nail in the coffin for MKB users and would be less impressive to watch on controller. Wouldn’t make sense to use the easiest weapon for the highest level of competition.

As it stands, the Sidekick seems like the only logical option IMO, possibly with a larger magazine. Or they need to unveil a weapon we haven’t seen yet.

Well for me it’s simply that I enjoy playing with the br much more than a spray and pray weapon. But I admit that’s opinion and not fact. Imo the AR needs it’s range nerfed. It’s way too easy to nail someone from long distance and that’s not how a fully automatic hand weapon works.

> 2700819419400084;4:
> Well for me it’s simply that I enjoy playing with the br much more than a spray and pray weapon. But I admit that’s opinion and not fact. Imo the AR needs it’s range nerfed. It’s way too easy to nail someone from long distance and that’s not how a fully automatic hand weapon works.

the main thing is that its a closer combat weapon, when the larger maps are unveiled they will probably make those br or at least the ar wont be as viable. just because its midrange doesn’t mean its super strong. Also you say spray and pray but its not? you literally have to aim still and keep it on the enemy not just dead brain walk towards an enemy and melee. its more skill than any other assault rifle now

> 2700819419400084;4:
> Well for me it’s simply that I enjoy playing with the br much more than a spray and pray weapon. But I admit that’s opinion and not fact. Imo the AR needs it’s range nerfed. It’s way too easy to nail someone from long distance and that’s not how a fully automatic hand weapon works.

It’s pretty hard for an AR to out gun a BR at mid range even with the AR being as powerful as it is. The BR is just more accurate. Honestly I don’t think I lost a single mid/long range encounter to an AR if I had the BR. The BR was so good Mid/long range I stopped picking it up so I could practice on the other weapons in the preview. I couldn’t tell you how many times I tried to stop a BR attack at mid range with a AR and not win the engagement and maybe at best get an assist from another player closer that helped.

> 2533274969977277;6:
> > 2700819419400084;4:
> > Well for me it’s simply that I enjoy playing with the br much more than a spray and pray weapon. But I admit that’s opinion and not fact. Imo the AR needs it’s range nerfed. It’s way too easy to nail someone from long distance and that’s not how a fully automatic hand weapon works.
>
> It’s pretty hard for an AR to out gun a BR at mid range even with the AR being as powerful as it is. The BR is just more accurate. Honestly I don’t think I lost a single mid/long range encounter to an AR if I had the BR. The BR was so good Mid/long range I stopped picking it up so I could practice on the other weapons in the preview. I couldn’t tell you how many times I tried to stop a BR attack at mid range with a AR and not win the engagement and maybe at best get an assist from another player closer that helped.

It’s more accurate yes, but I have seen MANY players get outgunned by an AR when they have a BR. The BR has a slow fire rate it feels compared to previous iterations.

The AR is competing outside of it’s range, which is not ok. I am fine with the ARs damage output in it’s current state, it just should have slightly shorter range.

> 2535449665894532;7:
> > 2533274969977277;6:
> > > 2700819419400084;4:
> > > Well for me it’s simply that I enjoy playing with the br much more than a spray and pray weapon. But I admit that’s opinion and not fact. Imo the AR needs it’s range nerfed. It’s way too easy to nail someone from long distance and that’s not how a fully automatic hand weapon works.
> >
> > It’s pretty hard for an AR to out gun a BR at mid range even with the AR being as powerful as it is. The BR is just more accurate. Honestly I don’t think I lost a single mid/long range encounter to an AR if I had the BR. The BR was so good Mid/long range I stopped picking it up so I could practice on the other weapons in the preview. I couldn’t tell you how many times I tried to stop a BR attack at mid range with a AR and not win the engagement and maybe at best get an assist from another player closer that helped.
>
> It’s more accurate yes, but I have seen MANY players get outgunned by an AR when they have a BR. The BR has a slow fire rate it feels compared to previous iterations.
>
> The AR is competing outside of it’s range, witch is not ok. I am fine with the ARs damage output in it’s current state, it just should have slightly shorter range.

It sounds like those guys that lost to the AR were too close and didn’t realize that the new BR is a long range weapon now. I think that’s a big thing here is that at close range the BR will lose every engagement which I think is good. Instead of in the past you were required to run it to even have a chance of winning.

This is a new meta. We should stop saying things like “the AR is shooting outside its range” because technically according to infinite the AR is actually shooting at the exact range it’s intended for. It just seems people aren’t really wanting to stay that far away from a person that just spawned. Instead they try to rush and get punished by 36 rnds or UNSC steel for thinking a fresh spawn is an easy kill.

Jokes aside, the ARs range as a general starting gun should overlap the other more specialized pick up weapons on the map and right now I think they got the ranges perfect. What might need adjustment is the TTKs but more data is needed for that

> 2533274969977277;1:
> I don’t post often but I’ve been a long time halo fan and I am currently pleased with the direction infinite is going! Normally I would agree that BR starts is the only want to play halo but that is more of the case in MCC. In Infinite with the way the BR and AR are balanced it would be horrible to have BR starts. At this point the BR is Mid to long range only due to slow fire rate. It is outgunned by any close range engagement. Unlike in halo 2, 3, or 4 where the BR is viable at all ranges. The commando is a little better at mid/short but not much with that kick. So BR starts would make most engaments either far or short with sidearms and no mid range gameplay. Also the current range on the AR might feel a little far on the small maps but in BTB it will feel underpowered so I would say we should wait until we get bigger maps before we go rushing in begging for an AR range nerf. I believe headshort multipler nerf ONLY (maybe not even that much) is something that is more realistic and does not take away from finally having a decent AR in Halo.

The AR is a close to mid range weapon. It is meant to be a powerful tool, not a throwaway weapon. It is not meant to be inferior to the BR, nor the CO, nor any precision weapon. Precision weapons are not more effective than spray weapons.
I think the biggest reason why people are begging for a BR start or AR nerf is because they’re so used to the BR being the one and only weapon to use. The BR was the meta in Halo for so long, while the AR was completely useless until Halo 4, and then it got a heavy nerf in Halo 5. The AR has always been the throwaway weapon for when you have nothing else to use, while precision weapons reigned supreme.

Now in Infinite, the AR is an actually viable starting weapon and it does it’s job in the sandbox. Check it:

Bulldog/ Close range
Assault Rifle/ Close to mid range
Battle Rifle/ mid to long range
Commando/ Long range
Sidekick/ Backup or cleanup weapon, close to mid range

That’s it. It’s rock, paper, scissors. If you’re fighting someone with an AR and you have a BR, and you’re in close range, guess who’s gonna win? AR every time. If you’re mid range? Depends on how good of a shot you are. Long range? BR will win every time. Once people figure this out they’ll stop complaining.

Couldn’t agree with OP and 2ndP more. I’m also a long-time halo player (since release of H2). Pointing out the comparative dominance of the BR to the rest of the sandbox in H2 and even H3 is spot on. Most of the rest of the weapons were not sufficiently useful to be picked up, let alone work at a starting option. While it made sense to start with BRs, in my opinion it makes the game become stale and repetitive more quickly. Games of slayer with BR starts are basically just BR battles in that context. That kills a lot of the possibilities of fun engagements and strategy.

It’s because of this that I love the more recent direction of the sandbox expanding with a lot more weapon options and now with Infinite creating by far the most balanced weapon box of any Halo. I was shocked to hear opinions on wanting BR starts in this game. I actually love the BR more than ever now because of its niche usefulness in comparison to good starting weapons. And I’m also surprised to hear people say it’s not powerful enough. Aside from the H2 BR in H5, I think it’s the most fun and powerful BR relative to sandbox options of any recent Halo. It dominates at mid range better than any non-power weapon thus far.

In my very few posts about Infinite, I’ve said this so I’ll say it again - I am ecstatic about this game as a long-time fan and so happy to see the development this franchise has taken. I hope we see more maps with traditional halo MP map eclecticism as was incorporated perfectly in Behemoth. Please bring more man-cannons, gravity lifts, teleporters, gates, buttons, shield walls, etc while mixing in the parkour elements of H5 and Infinite!

(Removed duplicate post)

> 2533274969977277;1:
> I don’t post often but I’ve been a long time halo fan and I am currently pleased with the direction infinite is going! Normally I would agree that BR starts is the only want to play halo but that is more of the case in MCC. In Infinite with the way the BR and AR are balanced it would be horrible to have BR starts. At this point the BR is Mid to long range only due to slow fire rate. It is outgunned by any close range engagement. Unlike in halo 2, 3, or 4 where the BR is viable at all ranges. The commando is a little better at mid/short but not much with that kick. So BR starts would make most engaments either far or short with sidearms and no mid range gameplay. Also the current range on the AR might feel a little far on the small maps but in BTB it will feel underpowered so I would say we should wait until we get bigger maps before we go rushing in begging for an AR range nerf. I believe headshort multipler nerf ONLY (maybe not even that much) is something that is more realistic and does not take away from finally having a decent AR in Halo.

They want br starts so like the bazaar map you can start shooting into the spawn points for easy kills

> 2535459108035924;2:
> Because of how much they’ve been crutching on the br since halo 2, and how the magnum is so popular. fast kills with headshots, its the reason why bloom was removed and the magnum became a overpowered beast in reach.
>
> There is a reason why people are screaming for it, its because they don’t want anything to change, they want the same thing over and over because “its halo” but halo has always changed because keeping a game the same way for 20 years is stale, stale as a year old piece of gram cracker.
>
> “halo is halo” is such a loose term that the people who only want headshots and br slayers don’t really know what it means

Perfect response. The halo community is probably the worst. They never “allow” change.

Because people figured out almost 20 years ago that spawning with a versatile skill based precision weapon was better for the flow of the game. Whether its the CE Pistol, the BR, the DMR, or the Halo 5 Magnum, and now the Halo Infinite BR are all cut from the same cloth. Every time a dev has tried to move away from utility starts they have always come back, for the simple reason that a large portion of the playerbase enjoys using them, even casual players.

Spawning with a proper utility weapon means that even off spawn every player has the capability to change the outcome of a game regardless of who controls the map. A BR(for the sake of example) let’s you traverse more open sections of the map while still maintaining your ability to fight back at range, it allows you to close the distance on long range weapons and keep your distance from close range weapons.

This flexibility makes it more difficult for one team to lockdown another since a fresh spawn simply has more options when they spawn with a versatile weapons as a opposed to close range ones. No matter how good those close range weapons are, they are inherently limited and because of that it is easy for a team with map control to predict what someone with close range weapons will do and outmaneuver them. Because there is only so many things that they can do.

The BR is also underpowered in a game where many weapons is often incredibly fast, its TTK is one of, if not the slowest BR in any Halo game currently, buffing the BR and implementing BR starts isn’t the only thing this game needs, not by a long shot, but its a start, especially where BTB is concerned. Next week is going to be an absolute clown show where BTB is concerned with AR starts.

> 2700819419400084;4:
> Well for me it’s simply that I enjoy playing with the br much more than a spray and pray weapon. But I admit that’s opinion and not fact. Imo the AR needs it’s range nerfed. It’s way too easy to nail someone from long distance and that’s not how a fully automatic hand weapon works.

Please do explain how a thousand pound Spartan uses a full automatic rifle………

> 2533274819446242;14:
> Because people figured out almost 20 years ago that spawning with a versatile skill based precision weapon was better for the flow of the game. Whether its the CE Pistol, the BR, the DMR, or the Halo 5 Magnum, and now the Halo Infinite BR are all cut from the same cloth. Every time a dev has tried to move away from utility starts they have always come back, for the simple reason that a large portion of the playerbase enjoys using them, even casual players.
>
> Spawning with a proper utility weapon means that even off spawn every player has the capability to change the outcome of a game regardless of who controls the map. A BR(for the sake of example) let’s you traverse more open sections of the map while still maintaining your ability to fight back at range, it allows you to close the distance on long range weapons and keep your distance from close range weapons.
>
> This flexibility makes it more difficult for one team to lockdown another since a fresh spawn simply has more options when they spawn with a versatile weapons as a opposed to close range ones. No matter how good those close range weapons are, they are inherently limited and because of that it is easy for a team with map control to predict what someone with close range weapons will do and outmaneuver them. Because there is only so many things that they can do.
>
> The BR is also underpowered in a game where many weapons is often incredibly fast, its TTK is one of, if not the slowest BR in any Halo game currently, buffing the BR and implementing BR starts isn’t the only thing this game needs, not by a long shot, but its a start, especially where BTB is concerned. Next week is going to be an absolute clown show where BTB is concerned with AR starts.

What if the AR is that new utility weapon instead of the BR? I think this is the direction infinite is trying to go.

Also how is BTB going to be a clown show with ARs that are “over powered” but balanced with mini sniper BR starts?

I’m confused. I had the chance to use the commando over the weekend and I used it for both close and mid range combat. Burst fire in close and single shot for midrange. I never got much accuracy in long range shots with that thing. Seems to me that it should not be described as a long range weapon, unless I’m thinking of something different than the rest of you.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274819446242;14:
> Because people figured out almost 20 years ago that spawning with a versatile skill based precision weapon was better for the flow of the game. Whether its the CE Pistol, the BR, the DMR, or the Halo 5 Magnum, and now the Halo Infinite BR are all cut from the same cloth. Every time a dev has tried to move away from utility starts they have always come back, for the simple reason that a large portion of the playerbase enjoys using them, even casual players.
>
> Spawning with a proper utility weapon means that even off spawn every player has the capability to change the outcome of a game regardless of who controls the map. A BR(for the sake of example) let’s you traverse more open sections of the map while still maintaining your ability to fight back at range, it allows you to close the distance on long range weapons and keep your distance from close range weapons.
>
> This flexibility makes it more difficult for one team to lockdown another since a fresh spawn simply has more options when they spawn with a versatile weapons as a opposed to close range ones. No matter how good those close range weapons are, they are inherently limited and because of that it is easy for a team with map control to predict what someone with close range weapons will do and outmaneuver them. Because there is only so many things that they can do.
>
> The BR is also underpowered in a game where many weapons is often incredibly fast, its TTK is one of, if not the slowest BR in any Halo game currently, buffing the BR and implementing BR starts isn’t the only thing this game needs, not by a long shot, but its a start, especially where BTB is concerned. Next week is going to be an absolute clown show where BTB is concerned with AR starts.

Lol ok…….

> 2533274969977277;16:
> > 2533274819446242;14:
> > Because people figured out almost 20 years ago that spawning with a versatile skill based precision weapon was better for the flow of the game. Whether its the CE Pistol, the BR, the DMR, or the Halo 5 Magnum, and now the Halo Infinite BR are all cut from the same cloth. Every time a dev has tried to move away from utility starts they have always come back, for the simple reason that a large portion of the playerbase enjoys using them, even casual players.
> >
> > Spawning with a proper utility weapon means that even off spawn every player has the capability to change the outcome of a game regardless of who controls the map. A BR(for the sake of example) let’s you traverse more open sections of the map while still maintaining your ability to fight back at range, it allows you to close the distance on long range weapons and keep your distance from close range weapons.
> >
> > This flexibility makes it more difficult for one team to lockdown another since a fresh spawn simply has more options when they spawn with a versatile weapons as a opposed to close range ones. No matter how good those close range weapons are, they are inherently limited and because of that it is easy for a team with map control to predict what someone with close range weapons will do and outmaneuver them. Because there is only so many things that they can do.
> >
> > The BR is also underpowered in a game where many weapons is often incredibly fast, its TTK is one of, if not the slowest BR in any Halo game currently, buffing the BR and implementing BR starts isn’t the only thing this game needs, not by a long shot, but its a start, especially where BTB is concerned. Next week is going to be an absolute clown show where BTB is concerned with AR starts.
>
> What if the AR is that new utility weapon instead of the BR? I think this is the direction infinite is trying to go.
>
> Also how is BTB going to be a clown show with ARs that are “over powered” but balanced with mini sniper BR starts?

A utility weapon requires some measure of precision and skill, and despite the AR’s excessive range, it still isn’t capable of dealing with targets at range, which is going to make it a joke in BTB. There is a reason that holding the high ground with ranged weapons is the most effective strategy on Bazaar and Recharge. Because the AR just isn’t reliable enough to deal with either the BR or Commando at range.

Even if the AR was effective at the ranges of your usual utility weapon, all you’ve done is replace the BR(or any other given utility weapon) with a weapon that takes far less skill to use.

Spawning with BR’s is bad, so we should spawn with something even easier to use instead, that seems like the gist of your post.

So many of you responded I can’t quote everyone so I’ll try to explain here.

First, I just enjoy using the br more. Period. When I called the AR a pray and spray weapon it’s because that’s what it’s been called from day one. I know you still have to use it correctly. Getting back to what I enjoy that’s simply my opinion. Imo 343 will have to see what the majority thinks and then they will have to make a decision. I might be in the minority. I don’t know. I just know what I’ve always loved using in halo and that’s precision weapons. Imo they take more skill and that’s what I love.

As far as the AR having too much range that again is my opinion and I stand by it. Someone mentioned about a spartan using a fully automatic weapon. It’s not the spartan. It’s the nature of physics of a fully automatic weapon and how accuracy works. The further out you get the more spray is going to happen. Other wise there would be no need for weapons like the br, or even sniper.

Now I think it’s range is too far. That’s also my opinion and I won’t change. But if I’m in the majority or minority I have no clue yet. After reading in the forum I think I’m on the majority side but that could be confirmation bias. Up close it should be a fairly fast kill. As distance increases it should lose accuracy and ttk should keep getting longer.

Imo it shouldn’t be lethal across a courtyard. Maybe about half the distance it should start outlawing every thing except shotgun like weapons.