Why does Arena need to be so pure?

Huge opinions inbound. If you don’t agree with me, that’s ok, just don’t take it personally.

It’s a simple question. Why does this community think Arena is the most important part of the game to design the whole game around? BTB is more popular and then we have a whole Campaign that the game needs to be designed for as well.

How can Halo be the best it can be when everyone keeps trying to change the entire game in favor of Arena? Why is there so much criticism of new mechanics when Halo has never even been a 100% Arena Shooter? People are looking at Halo 5 under one context and one context only: Arena. Isn’t it possible that all these new mechanics could actually fit very well into BTB and Campaign?

I don’t buy it when people say that Sprint/Spartan Abilities breaks BTB and Campaign, I think you’re full of it. Vehicles, man-cannons and teleporters are not good substitutes for moving slow as Molasses. That’s just crap design. I’m starting to think that I was right when I said before that Halo isn’t at it’s core, a fast paced game. Halo isn’t fast because you move fast, it’s fast because the maps can fit in my backyard and we always have a weapon that is able to rapidly and accurately shoot across the map. That’s not bad design but issues start popping up in other modes, especially BTB. The design of the game isn’t successfully translating for bigger modes. It just isn’t. BTB is the more popular mode, why should it suffer from the rippling effects of Halo turning into an all-out Arena Shooter? Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t. But you want it to stay because it’s Halo and staying in cover to regen health (campier style gameplay) is what Halo is all about.

Why is the skillgap your only concern? As long as the game is fair and the best team always wins, isn’t it ok? Skillgap shouldn’t be held on such a high pedestal because Halo has never been the most skill-required shooter. How high does the skillgap need to get until you’re happy with it? Every single addition to Halo is filtered on here through a one-dimensional competitive mindset and if it doesn’t add to the skillgap, it’s considered pointless. That’s sad. Halo isn’t Unreal Tournament or Quake.

Why is it ok to make Halo perfectly support Arena but just leave Campaign and BTB/Warzone to it’s own devices? “Players are complaining about moving too slow in BTB? Eh, just put in a Mongoose or a man-cannon. It’ll be fine.” No, it won’t be fine. You can’t just brush off Campaign and BTB and say stuff like: “Halo 3 campaign was fine.” Fine? Is that the standard that the rest of the modes are supposed to meet?

Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.

I agree about what you said that some people just put all their attention to arena, it’s not the whole game but fine… you can’t make everybody happy because every each of us have different tastes i really hope 343i make a playlist without sprint/ads to shut up and make happy all the people saying “sprint blablabla, this is ads not zoom, i’m crying since reach because this is not Halo”… change it’s inevitable, and i think the new mechanics are good but i really want to 343i make that to make all the community happy with the ones who want sprint and the others who don’t want it.

> Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.

This is not the case. Like, at all.

Just look at Halo 5. We have arena modes in addition to 24-player matches with AI opponents and what’s shaping up to be the biggest Halo campaign in years. Not to mention new mobility options with the Spartan abilities and default sprint. Arena doesn’t seem to be holding anything back.

> 2533274876456769;3:
> > Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.
>
>
> This is not the case. Like, at all.
>
> Just look at Halo 5. We have arena modes in addition to 24-player matches with AI opponents and what’s shaping up to be the biggest Halo campaign in years. Not to mention new mobility options with the Spartan abilities and default sprint. Arena doesn’t seem to be holding anything back.

I agree with you completely, I was talking about the mindset of the community members.

> 2533274833600810;4:
> > 2533274876456769;3:
> > > Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.
> >
> >
> > This is not the case. Like, at all.
> >
> > Just look at Halo 5. We have arena modes in addition to 24-player matches with AI opponents and what’s shaping up to be the biggest Halo campaign in years. Not to mention new mobility options with the Spartan abilities and default sprint. Arena doesn’t seem to be holding anything back.
>
>
> I agree with you completely, I was talking about the mindset of the community members.

To be fair to them, Halo’s multiplayer does have its roots in arena gameplay. I can understand a select few of the sprint arguments (even though sprint and arena mechanics aren’t inherently opposed to each other). But it’s when they argue that it shouldn’t even be in campaign where they lose me completely.

So I agree with you that arena modes and their fanbase do at least have the potential to drag down other modes, but that has yet to become a reality.

> Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t. But you want it to stay because it’s Halo and staying in cover to regen health (campier style gameplay) is what Halo is all about.

The longer kill times and recharging shields and health (save CE/Reach) are some of the biggest reasons I fell in love with Halo. You could say having recharging shields makes the game more tactical, as it makes players decide whether or not to take cover with what remaining shields they have, rather than thinking “Well my health isn’t coming back anyway so why not rush?”. Taking cover to allow your shields time to recharge is not camping, it is a tactical decision.

> Vehicles, man-cannons and teleporters are not good substitutes for moving slow as Molasses.

Sigh.

> Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t.

I don’t see how it impacts the skill gap. I’ve seen arguments about how health punishes people for winning fights, and I’ve seen other arguments about how it increases map flow, but I’ve never seen any revolve around making the game easier or more difficult. I can honestly say I wouldn’t mind Halo Ce’s Health System returning though, especially with the increased frequency of people escaping fights.

> Skillgap shouldn’t be held on such a high pedestal because Halo has never been the most skill-required shooter.

This statement is a non-sequitur. Not much else I can say here.
There’s always room for improvement, and some would consider a higher skillgap to be an improvement.

> Every single addition to Halo is filtered on here through a one-dimensional competitive mindset and if it doesn’t add to the skillgap, it’s considered pointless. That’s sad. Halo isn’t Unreal Tournament or Quake.

I don’t see what’s so sad about a drive to make a shooter more competitive. As if its wrong for people to want to challenge themselves.

And I typically despise sounding like a pretentious giant dad or manly man, but why doesn’t anyone have any competitive spirit anymore?

> Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.

If BTB were so mediocre how did it ever rise to popularity in the first place? I see nothing but praise for Halo 3’s BTB and nothing but contempt for Halo 4’s.

> 2533274834537210;6:
> > Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t. But you want it to stay because it’s Halo and staying in cover to regen health (campier style gameplay) is what Halo is all about.
>
>
> The longer kill times and recharging shields and health (save CE/Reach) are some of the biggest reasons I fell in love with Halo. You could say having recharging shields makes the game more tactical, as it makes players decide whether or not to take cover with what remaining shields they have, rather than thinking “Well my health isn’t coming back anyway so why not rush?”. Taking cover to allow your shields time to recharge is not camping, it is a tactical decision.

It is tactical and has value but it also creates scenarios where damage taken can be completely neglected by camping for a few seconds. Permanent health requires every action to have greater purpose because there will be consequences.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t have shields, I was just proving a point.

> 2533274819302824;7:
> > Vehicles, man-cannons and teleporters are not good substitutes for moving slow as Molasses.
>
>
> Sigh.
>
>
> > Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t.
>
>
> I don’t see how it impacts the skill gap. I’ve seen arguments about how health punishes people for winning fights, and I’ve seen other arguments about how it increases map flow, but I’ve never seen any revolve around making the game easier or more difficult. I can honestly say I wouldn’t mind Halo Ce’s Health System returning though, especially with the increased frequency of people escaping fights.
>
>
> > Skillgap shouldn’t be held on such a high pedestal because Halo has never been the most skill-required shooter.
>
>
> This statement is a non-sequitur. Not much else I can say here.
>
> There’s always room for improvement, and some would consider a higher skillgap to be an improvement.
>
>
> > Every single addition to Halo is filtered on here through a one-dimensional competitive mindset and if it doesn’t add to the skillgap, it’s considered pointless. That’s sad. Halo isn’t Unreal Tournament or Quake.
>
>
> I don’t see what’s so sad about a drive to make a shooter more competitive. As if its wrong for people to want to challenge themselves.
>
>
> > Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.
>
>
> If BTB were so mediocre how did it ever rise to popularity in the first place? I see nothing but praise for Halo 3’s BTB and nothing but contempt for Halo 4’s.

It’s sad because people disregard it completely if it doesn’t add to the skillgap. Wanting a higher skillgap isn’t bad but putting it above all else is.

It rose to popularity for many reasons. The point is that BTB suffers from issues that aren’t apparent in Arena. I actually see more praise for Halo 4 BTB so I guess that would depend on where you look more than anything.

> 2533274819302824;7:
> > Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.
>
>
> If BTB were so mediocre how did it ever rise to popularity in the first place? I see nothing but praise for Halo 3’s BTB and nothing but contempt for Halo 4’s.

Then you’re only looking where you choose to.

> 2533274833600810;1:
> Huge opinions inbound. If you don’t agree with me, that’s ok, just don’t take it personally.
>
> It’s a simple question. Why does this community think Arena is the most important part of the game to design the whole game around? BTB is more popular and then we have a whole Campaign that the game needs to be designed for as well.
>
> How can Halo be the best it can be when everyone keeps trying to change the entire game in favor of Arena? Why is there so much criticism of new mechanics when Halo has never even been a 100% Arena Shooter? People are looking at Halo 5 under one context and one context only: Arena. Isn’t it possible that all these new mechanics could actually fit very well into BTB and Campaign?
>
> I don’t buy it when people say that Sprint/Spartan Abilities breaks BTB and Campaign, I think you’re full of it. Vehicles, man-cannons and teleporters are not good substitutes for moving slow as Molasses. That’s just crap design. I’m starting to think that I was right when I said before that Halo isn’t at it’s core, a fast paced game. Halo isn’t fast because you move fast, it’s fast because the maps can fit in my backyard and we always have a weapon that is able to rapidly and accurately shoot across the map. That’s not bad design but issues start popping up in other modes, especially BTB. The design of the game isn’t successfully translating for bigger modes. It just isn’t. BTB is the more popular mode, why should it suffer from the rippling effects of Halo turning into an all-out Arena Shooter? Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t. But you want it to stay because it’s Halo and staying in cover to regen health (campier style gameplay) is what Halo is all about.
>
> Why is the skillgap your only concern? As long as the game is fair and the best team always wins, isn’t it ok? Skillgap shouldn’t be held on such a high pedestal because Halo has never been the most skill-required shooter. How high does the skillgap need to get until you’re happy with it? Every single addition to Halo is filtered on here through a one-dimensional competitive mindset and if it doesn’t add to the skillgap, it’s considered pointless. That’s sad. Halo isn’t Unreal Tournament or Quake.
>
> Why is it ok to make Halo perfectly support Arena but just leave Campaign and BTB/Warzone to it’s own devices? “Players are complaining about moving too slow in BTB? Eh, just put in a Mongoose or a man-cannon. It’ll be fine.” No, it won’t be fine. You can’t just brush off Campaign and BTB and say stuff like: “Halo 3 campaign was fine.” Fine? Is that the standard that the rest of the modes are supposed to meet?
>
> Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.

Nothing about the original trilogy was mediocre.

If you ask me, 343i has made the best possible choice for Halo 5: Keep the classic competitive arena the fans know and love (equal starts, decision making, teamwork), then add a new mode where they can experiment with new and imaginative things without tampering with the core experience. Halo 5 (to me) is shaping out to be one of the best games in the Halo series.

I’ll address some of these issues. I’ll just tell you before hand, don’t try to argue with me because I don’t intend to argue back since I know this topic isn’t about understanding as much as it’s about trying to make a point or vent or whatever you were doing. I mean, someone who thinks vehicles, man cannons and teleporters on big maps are crap design either isn’t thinking clearly or is just very biased or something.

Halo is barely still an arena shooter. Halo 4 wasn’t one and 343 made a conscious decision to change it back with Halo 5 (it shouldn’t be a mystery as to why). You may not realize this, but Halo may be the last arena shooter on the market (on consoles anyway) and that’s what should be the selling point: it’s unique and different from the pack. And no, BTB isn’t more popular than arena style game types. Unless you’re really gonna tell me you think BTB always has a population higher than every other playlist combined (which are usually all arena based playlists). You’ve made some unusual statements already, so you might say that, who knows?

343 is instead trying to merge arena gameplay and so called “modern” features of other popular shooters both of which are incompatible and don’t compliment each other.

Maybe you didn’t know, but Halo was heavily influenced by Quake, hence the arena style that people want. They liked the uniqueness of the first 3 games and now it’s not nearly as unique and there’s CoD that does this stuff better.

Energy shields might encourage camping, I don’t know. Mostly because this is an arena shooter so the weapons on the map give you a reason to move around so that’s not a problem.

You say if it’s fair and the best team wins, that’s most important and that a skill gap shouldn’t be such a big deal but a skill gap is exactly what ensures those results.

I don’t know if you finally snapped or something but this topic was uncharacteristically ridiculous.

> 2533274833600810;1:
> Huge opinions inbound. If you don’t agree with me, that’s ok, just don’t take it personally.
>
> It’s a simple question. Why is Arena the most important part of the game to design the whole game around? BTB is more popular and then we have a whole Campaign that the game needs to be designed for as well.

BTB got more popular than other modes in Halo 4, previously it was always 4v4 slayer.

Also, it was stated that they wanted consistent game mechanics across the whole game, while sprint isn’t wanted by the more competitive community who will most likely be the larger part of the Arena, it’s in there to make the game consistent.

> 2533274833600810;1:
> How can Halo be the best it can be when everyone keeps trying to change the entire game in favor of Arena? Why is there so much criticism of new mechanics when Halo has never even been a 100% Arena Shooter? People are looking at Halo 5 under one context and one context only: Arena. Isn’t it possible that all these new mechanics could actually fit very well into BTB and Campaign?

And how can Halo be at its best when it either has very inconsistent gameplay mechanics? Or its the game version of a Michael Bay movie, if that’s what you’re going for when you’re going at the skill gap the way you are.

I also have to ask what the best it can be is, because that would to me indicate there’s one single thing it can be.

My question is, what should Halo be best at?
Halo being its best is a rather diffuse and hollow statement when there’s no indication of what its supposed to be best at.
So why is there criticism? Because those who criticise are those who want Halo to be at its best in the Arena, even when it isn’t regarded as a 100% arena shooter.

> 2533274833600810;1:
> I don’t buy it when people say that Sprint/Spartan Abilities breaks BTB and Campaign, I think you’re full of it. Vehicles, man-cannons and teleporters are not good substitutes for moving slow as Molasses. That’s just crap design. I’m starting to think that I was right when I said before that Halo isn’t at it’s core, a fast paced game. Halo isn’t fast because you move fast, it’s fast because the maps can fit in my backyard and we always have a weapon that is able to rapidly and accurately shoot across the map. That’s not necessarily bad design but issues start popping up in other modes, especially BTB. The design of the game isn’t successfully translating for bigger modes. It just isn’t. BTB is the more popular mode, why should it suffer from the rippling effects of Halo turning into an all-out Arena Shooter? Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t. But you want it to stay because it’s Halo and staying in cover to regen health (campier style gameplay) is what Halo is all about.

We’ll have to see about BTB and Campaign.

As for teleporters, man cannons and vehicles being bad substitutes for faster map movement, why?
Vehicles provide an entirely different type of gameplay integrated into the normal modes with its own benefits you do not find while going on foot.
Man cannons provide a fast transport to a different part of the map at the expense of being in the open.
Teleporters do need some work though, and after Halo 2, we haven’t seen that many in MP, they provide instant travel with lower risk than say a man cannon.

So because issues start popping up in larger modes, the whole game need to be redesigned in order to fit those modes? You know that applies for basically every game designed with smaller amounts of players in mind. Because the game start playing differently the more players you add, the bigger the maps get and so forth.

As I already said, BTB wasn’t that popular until Halo 4, the go to mode was 4v4.
In Halo 5, we see Warzone, a quite frankly at this point, a rather half hearted attempt by i343 to “revolutionize” Halo’s large battle side, and BTB isn’t going to be in at launch either.

> 2533274833600810;1:
> Why is the skillgap your only concern? As long as the game is fair and the best team always wins, isn’t it ok? Skillgap shouldn’t be held on such a high pedestal because Halo has never been the most skill-required shooter. How high does the skillgap need to get until you’re happy with it? Every single addition to Halo is filtered on here through a one-dimensional competitive mindset and if it doesn’t add to the skillgap, it’s considered pointless. That’s sad. Halo isn’t Unreal Tournament or Quake.

Because without a large skill gap, there’s not much to learn, there’s no challenge when playing. I can safely say that no matter your stance, über competitive or laid back couch social, everyone benefits when the skill gap is large. Do you think the most played games lack skill gap? Do you think the majority of the players are competitive?

So because it has never been the most skill-required shooter, we should disregard skill gap or have it reduced?

How high? There’s really no quantifiable answer to that. You have experienced users and inexperienced ones, you have those who trained hard and those who didn’t. The skill gap is what they can do and can’t do with the tools given to them, and how much they then differ in what they achieve with said tools.

That’s a rather shallow view of the competitive mindset. No, Halo isn’t Unreal or Quake, it’s Halo, but why should that be an excuse to not add to the skill gap? Why is a small skill gap so good? Who benefits from it?

> 2533274833600810;1:
> Why is it ok to make Halo perfectly support Arena but just leave Campaign and BTB/Warzone to it’s own devices? “Players are complaining about moving too slow in BTB? Eh, just put in a Mongoose or a man-cannon. It’ll be fine.” No, it won’t be fine. You can’t just brush off Campaign and BTB and say stuff like: “Halo 3 campaign was fine.” Fine? Is that the standard that the rest of the modes are supposed to meet?

I don’t think there’s any answer that will satisfy you because you’re opinion is that those modes should get bling bling because you like them and you dislike that features you like are getting criticised. That and I’m sensing pro-sprint stuff… That and you don’t really explain why it won’t be fine. So it’s quite hard to even start to attempt an answer.

> 2533274833600810;1:
> Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.

What makes it a mediocre experience? The dev’s lack of competence to make something out of what they’ve got?
Or what you consider constricted gameplay due to focus being on arena, without going into what Campaign and BTB should do in order to blow people away?

it needs to be arena style because that’s how halo was created. Purely fair, skillful and difficult. H1-3 all supported this and then reach basically ruined it with armor abilities and 4 didn’t help. Cod is popular because its easier…much like big team is the most popular playlist.

Halo at its core is an arena shooter, you build halo around something else and you’re not going to get a game that feels like halo. Of course other modes could exist, but arena gameplay should be a main focus.

This does not necessarily have to directly correlate to other modes either, campaign and warzone could still have their own entirely different abilities and features. The main multiplayer modes that already had arena in mind should stay that way and not try to completely change what made people like them in the first place.

Building gameplay mechanics around BTB arena would probably not work as well either, they would not work as well on maps that are not giant. However it can work vice versa with BTB, as long as you have things like vehicles, man cannons, and teleporters (which there is nothing wrong with)

Now I would not mind a game being built around a gamemode like warzone or some new BTB, but not as a main halo game. You don’t go changing what halo is in a main halo game, it should be done in a spinoff similar to halo online. I think it would be awesome to have a battlefield styled halo spinoff that lets us play as multiple species, but not as a main game.

Whenever I see someone arguing against a new mechanic in Halo 5, their argument is usually “It lowers the skillgap”, and I just don’t see how that happens. Abilities like clamber or the “S” word aren’t meant to make the game easier for newcomers; they’re meant to make the game more dynamic by giving players more options. During the beta, I used clamber to get to the central platform in Truth faster so I could either get the sword or ambush enemies who approach in the regular way by going up the ramp. I wouldn’t be able to do that if I played on Midship in Halo 2**.**

> 2533274833600810;1:
> Huge opinions inbound. If you don’t agree with me, that’s ok, just don’t take it personally.
>
> It’s a simple question. Why does this community think Arena is the most important part of the game to design the whole game around? BTB is most played playlist and then we have a whole Campaign that the game needs to be designed for as well.

BTB being the most popular playlist is a very recent development, BTB was always popular, but it was never the focus. Of course people were playing BTB in Halo 4 when the majority of the maps in the game were BTB. If you are talking MCC it is also not surprising given that it is the most diverse and wide ranging playlist in the game featuring all the games and multiple gametypes.

> How can Halo be the best it can be when everyone keeps trying to change the entire game in favor of Arena? Why is there so much criticism of new mechanics when Halo has never even been a 100% Arena Shooter? People are looking at Halo 5 under one context and one context only: Arena. Isn’t it possible that all these new mechanics could actually fit very well into BTB and Campaign?

You are acting like there is some huge divide between Campaign, 4v4, 8v8, there isn’t. There definitely isn’t a disntiction between 4v4 and 8v8 besides player count and map size. They both followed the same principle aside from tweaks to accomodate the larger player count and vehicles(though vehicles are not always absent in 4v4 either). BTB is still Arena, it simply isn’t quite as competitive in 4v4 and in non-tournament gametypes the difference is minimal.

> I don’t buy it when people say that Sprint/Spartan Abilities breaks BTB and Campaign, I think you’re full of it. Vehicles, man-cannons and teleporters are not good substitutes for moving slow as Molasses. That’s just crap design. I’m starting to think that I was right when I said before that Halo isn’t at it’s core, a fast paced game. Halo isn’t fast because you move fast, it’s fast because the maps can fit in my backyard and we always have a weapon that is able to rapidly and accurately shoot across the map. That’s not bad design but issues start popping up in other modes, especially BTB. The design of the game isn’t successfully translating for bigger modes. It just isn’t. BTB is the more popular mode, why should it suffer from the rippling effects of Halo turning into an all-out Arena Shooter? Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t. But you want it to stay because it’s Halo and staying in cover to regen health (campier style gameplay) is what Halo is all about.

I don’t think the arguement has really been that sprint ‘breaks’ BTB or campaign. Most just challenge the notion that sprint or any of the SAs are somehow required to create a great campaign experience since there are 4 great Halo campaigns that show us it is obviously possible.

As for BTB, vehicles, man cannons, teleporters, and infantry friendly paths can absolutely serve as a acceptable alternative when paired with a solid base movement speed and good map design. The amount of revisionist history when it comes to BTB is staggering. Nope, any time anyone was moving around in BTB in CE-3 they were really having a miserable time, Any fun they had was all just that evil nostalgia blinding them to the truth./s

There are absolutely games where large maps don’t work as well with the base player traits. I would have killed to have sprint in Battlefield 1942. I never had such an issue in Halo when taken as a whole. Specific Maps? Absolutely, poor map design will cause problems no matter what the base mechanics are.

And Again, BTB was never the focus, nor was it the most popular gamemode until 343 set out specifically to bump it up by designing a majority of maps in Halo 4 for BTB. It still did perfectly well for itself.

> Why is the skillgap your only concern? As long as the game is fair and the best team always wins, isn’t it ok? Skillgap shouldn’t be held on such a high pedestal because Halo has never been the most skill-required shooter. How high does the skillgap need to get until you’re happy with it? Every single addition to Halo is filtered on here through a one-dimensional competitive mindset and if it doesn’t add to the skillgap, it’s considered pointless. That’s sad. Halo isn’t Unreal Tournament or Quake.

Skillgap has never been the only concern, that doesn’t mean people can’t be unhappy about perceived downgrades to the skillgap. The logic of “well it isn’t the most competitive so no one should pay any mind to the skillgap” is absurd. You could apply that logic to just about anything to justify changes to any number of areas. The are many filters through which a wide variety of players will look at additions/changes. Don’t generalize the whole based on comments of a few.

> Why is it ok to make Halo perfectly support Arena but just leave Campaign and BTB/Warzone to it’s own devices? “Players are complaining about moving too slow in BTB? Eh, just put in a Mongoose or a man-cannon. It’ll be fine.” No, it won’t be fine. You can’t just brush off Campaign and BTB and say stuff like: “Halo 3 campaign was fine.” Fine? Is that the standard that the rest of the modes are supposed to meet?
>
> Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.

You keep treating Campaign, 4v4, and 8v8 as if they are completely different things, they are not. Its not as if Bungie designed those first 3 games with an ‘Arena’ focus they designed it around a single set of mechanics and designed the campaign and multiplayer suites to fit with them. Again I don’t really care about the retroactive complaints about BTB moving ‘too slow’.

Players who focus the classic Arena experience(which includes BTB) want a uniform player experience just as much those who don’t. As it is clearly possible to create an engrossing and well paced campaign using those original mechanics, there isn’t a concern for the quality of campaign.

“But what about Warzone?” one might ask. I quite frankly don’t care about Warzone in the slightest. A.) Because Warzone =/= BTB and B.) Generally speaking I think it is a bad idea to try to include two vastly different experiences in a single title. I don’t think either ‘Arena’ or ‘Warzone’ will live up to their full creative potential being tied to the same game. The Arena portion compromised by mechanics meant for Warzone and I think Warzone is held back creatively by being tied to the Arena roots of the core series. I think it was a bad idea for the same reason I think trying to add ‘competitive’ small scale gamemodes into Battlefield is a bad idea(those gamemodes failed miserably BTW).

Generally speaking most fans you think are focusing on the ‘arena’ aspect are more likely focusing on the wider “classic Halo” experience.

> 2533274819302824;7:
> > Vehicles, man-cannons and teleporters are not good substitutes for moving slow as Molasses.
>
>
> Sigh.
>
>
> > Energy Shields promote campy gameplay, why don’t we ditch it for the traditional 100 HP mechanic? It would add to the skillgap, right? You can’t honestly tell me that it wouldn’t.
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> I don’t see how it impacts the skill gap. I’ve seen arguments about how health punishes people for winning fights, and I’ve seen other arguments about how it increases map flow, but I’ve never seen any revolve around making the game easier or more difficult. I can honestly say I wouldn’t mind Halo Ce’s Health System returning though, especially with the increased frequency of people escaping fights.
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> > Skillgap shouldn’t be held on such a high pedestal because Halo has never been the most skill-required shooter.
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> This statement is a non-sequitur. Not much else I can say here.
> There’s always room for improvement, and some would consider a higher skillgap to be an improvement.
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>
> > Every single addition to Halo is filtered on here through a one-dimensional competitive mindset and if it doesn’t add to the skillgap, it’s considered pointless. That’s sad. Halo isn’t Unreal Tournament or Quake.
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> I don’t see what’s so sad about a drive to make a shooter more competitive. As if its wrong for people to want to challenge themselves.
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> And I typically despise sounding like a pretentious giant dad or manly man, but why doesn’t anyone have any competitive spirit anymore?
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> > Halo is supposed to blow people away and that’s not possible when you let everything other than Arena just be a mediocre experience.
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> If BTB were so mediocre how did it ever rise to popularity in the first place? I see nothing but praise for Halo 3’s BTB and nothing but contempt for Halo 4’s.

Thanks for saving me a hell of a lot of time and effort.

> 2533274819567236;13:
> Energy shields might encourage camping, I don’t know. Mostly because this is an arena shooter so the weapons on the map give you a reason to move around so that’s not a problem.
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> You say if it’s fair and the best team wins, that’s most important and that a skill gap shouldn’t be such a big deal but a skill gap is exactly what ensures those results.

^ my man…you gotta stop looking at the term ‘competitive’ negatively, Gears. It’s actually not a bad thing. I used to feel (and at times STILL do) that competitive games are not my cup of tea, and deep down I’m a casual player that likes to commit suicide over and over in Halo in the most elaborate ways possible, and well, I still am…

It was only after I started trying - actively aiming to succeed at a high level of play (beit online or playing SP with the highest difficulty) that I became largely disappointed with my reward for the majority of my games. All that time spent getting better, for nothing, because the game always treated you differently than stronger A.I., giving them more health and more damage, and some games gave online opponents better tools to defeat you as well.

I actually quit competitive battling in Pokemon as well because it wasn’t rewarding enough in my opinion, and well, don’t tell anyone I said this, but I think competitive Pokemon battles are too hard