Why does 343 have to cater for one group?!

Community General Discussion
1

I constantly keep seeing people stating things like:

“343 should make the game for competitive players”

“343 should focus on forging”

“343 should make the game for casuals who are young”.

Why?

It makes me wonder if the people saying these things didn’t play Halo 2 / Halo 3. In case you are unaware, both games delivered for both competitive and social players. Forge came in Halo 3 and gave a good, but limited, forge.

Step by Step guide on how to cater for everyone:

  1. Ranked Playlists with a visible 1-50 MMR rank. Refined settings with a focus on teamwork and tactics. Descope, Team only radar etc.

  2. Social Playlists that focus on being able to just go in solo and play. Ordnance is great in Infinity Slayer, but it has no place in competitive play.

  3. A great forge, multiple environments, better tools etc.

What is so hard to understand about this? 343 can easily make a set of playlists for the two sections of the community.

2

Halo 3 already exists. If people still wanted that, they would still play it.

3

> Halo 3 already exists. If people still wanted that, they would still play it.

… but it’s also overrun by baddies.

last time i played it was against a lag swticher, modder, and a deranker.

i carried my team to victory, I cant remember what map.

4

Too many people forget that there are other groups in Halo, and that every single Halo game, but Halo CE was built for most groups.

And most people also think it’s their way, or the highway, Competitive side of Halo’s community tend to be narrow minded, and think Halo was built for them, and them alone, and that all Halo games should be built for them and only them. Granted I realize that not all competitive gamers think like that, but there are those who do, and those who do think like that are hard headed, and in most cases rude. There are also competitive gamers who think their style of play will please everyone else’s style of play, and some of those people will even go as far as to argue that it’s true.

And yes, there are some people on other sides of the community that tend to think the same way, but for different reasons. And I will say this, I’ve mostly ran into this kind of think in the Xbox side of the community.

5

> > Halo 3 already exists. If people still wanted that, they would still play it.
>
> … but it’s also overrun by baddies.
>
> last time i played it was against a lag swticher, modder, and a deranker.
>
> i carried my team to victory, I cant remember what map.

Always reminded me of the Halo 2 issues online. Halo 3 is fun though for Lan for the classic lan party…

6

I really think it would be a good thing if there was Ranked and Social playlists again.

Ranked would have 1 to 50 with a exp points system like Reach or Halo 4.

Social would just have a exp points system like Reach or Halo 4.

Ranked shouldn’t allow more then 1 local player.

But Social would.

That way everyone wins, and not just one of the two groups get’s focused on more then the other.

And Forge should always be supported very well.

I think a Sandbox remake and more flat open areas would be very good.

7

> Too many people forget that there are other groups in Halo, and that every single Halo game, but Halo CE was built for most groups.
>
> And most people also think it’s their way, or the highway, Competitive side of Halo’s community tend to be narrow minded, and think Halo was built for them, and them alone, and that all Halo games should be built for them and only them. Granted I realize that not all competitive gamers think like that, but there are those who do, and those who do think like that are hard headed, and in most cases rude. There are also competitive gamers who think their style of play will please everyone else’s style of play, and some of those people will even go as far as to argue that it’s true.
>
> And yes, there are some people on other sides of the community that tend to think the same way, but for different reasons. And I will say this, I’ve mostly ran into this kind of think in the Xbox side of the community.

its always the drama that gets the most attention. up to a point to where we can’t see the other side of each community that thinks this argument is stupid. and yes while you see that on the Halo community, its also in other communities to.

so in way its like that in all communites.

8

> its always the drama that gets the most attention. up to a point to where we can’t see the other side of eacc community that thinks this argument is stupid. and yes while you see that on the Halo community, its also in other communities to.
>
> so in way its like that in all communites.

I saw an image that best said what drama is.
D**b. R****ds. Asking. More. Attention.

And yes, I know all communities has their little drama fests, I came from the Halo PC/CE community, we had our dramas, mostly our dramas was about Aim Bot users, not who is better than who like it is in the Xbox community. I swear if it wasn’t for the “No stat flaming” rule, most of the forums would be full of “You’re not a level 50 in Halo 2, so you have no say in what should go into any Halo game/mode”

But we still have the “It’s all the casual’s fault!” BS, granted I would LOVE to go back and enjoy the anti Aim Bot drama of the PC community, but I’ve gotten tired of it, and tried of waiting for another Halo PC game to be released.

9

> > its always the drama that gets the most attention. up to a point to where we can’t see the other side of eacc community that thinks this argument is stupid. and yes while you see that on the Halo community, its also in other communities to.
> >
> > so in way its like that in all communites.
>
> I saw an image that best said what drama is.
> D**b. R****ds. Asking. More. Attention.
>
> And yes, I know all communities has their little drama fests, I came from the Halo PC/CE community, we had our dramas, mostly our dramas was about Aim Bot users, not who is better than who like it is in the Xbox community. I swear if it wasn’t for the “No stat flaming” rule, most of the forums would be full of “You’re not a level 50 in Halo 2, so you have no say in what should go into any Halo game/mode”
>
> But we still have the “It’s all the casual’s fault!” BS, granted I would LOVE to go back and enjoy the anti Aim Bot drama of the PC community, but I’ve gotten tired of it, and tried of waiting for another Halo PC game to be released.

I think we shoudln’t be blamming a part of the community for why somehting is missing in a game.

10

> > > its always the drama that gets the most attention. up to a point to where we can’t see the other side of eacc community that thinks this argument is stupid. and yes while you see that on the Halo community, its also in other communities to.
> > >
> > > so in way its like that in all communites.
> >
> > I saw an image that best said what drama is.
> > D**b. R****ds. Asking. More. Attention.
> >
> > And yes, I know all communities has their little drama fests, I came from the Halo PC/CE community, we had our dramas, mostly our dramas was about Aim Bot users, not who is better than who like it is in the Xbox community. I swear if it wasn’t for the “No stat flaming” rule, most of the forums would be full of “You’re not a level 50 in Halo 2, so you have no say in what should go into any Halo game/mode”
> >
> > But we still have the “It’s all the casual’s fault!” BS, granted I would LOVE to go back and enjoy the anti Aim Bot drama of the PC community, but I’ve gotten tired of it, and tried of waiting for another Halo PC game to be released.
>
> I think we shouldn’t be blaming a part of the community for why something is missing in a game.

I agree, we shouldn’t be blaming any group for something that isn’t right, because half the time it’s normally something a group asks for, and then when it isn’t to their liking, they blame another group for it not being right. Personally I don’t mind watching threads grow in page count over hackers, derankers, or boosters. But I hate seeing thread after thread of nothing but glorified “He said, She said”, “It’s X groups fault!”, “I’m better than you, here’s why”, “This game sucks because it’s not being catered to X Group”, and “I’m a pro player, but this game is so broken, my K/D is being murdered” Threads.

And here’s something, for the past few years or so, Halo has been catering to one group and one group only, but it’s not the group(s) people think. Microsoft, Bungie, and 343i have been catering to the Xbox group. And yet when ever someone says “Hey, there should be more Halo games on the PC”, they fill up full of people who are unwilling to let any other group be granted into the main catering group.

11

> Step by Step guide on how to cater for everyone:

I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone.

12

> > Step by Step guide on how to cater for everyone:
>
> I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone.

True but at no point does that mean a buffet must be meat and potatoes only :slight_smile:

Now how does Halo get made for Halo fans??? The same way it’s always been made, not with the basic attributes of Vanilla but with the options that allow the Vanilla to change into the type of game we want. What we want is not monolithic. At best groups can be catered to and no grand group can ever be greatly pleased (not even CE’s group, hence the changes we saw in H2.)

If Halo’s custom options are unacceptable at the moment to many, than those many surely must understand why we have the multitude of varying attribute weapons and why we can choose to have chosen asymmetrical loadouts or forced symmetrical loadouts.
It’s not up to those players to demand more options yet remove and/or limit the ones currently in the popularly played playlists.

13

> > > Step by Step guide on how to cater for everyone:
> >
> > I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone.
>
> True but at no point does that mean a buffet must be meat and potatoes only :slight_smile:
>
> Now how does Halo get made for Halo fans??? The same way it’s always been made, not with the basic attributes of Vanilla but with the options that allow the Vanilla to change into the type of game we want. What we want is not monolithic. At best groups can be catered to and no grand group can ever be greatly pleased (not even CE’s group, hence the changes we saw in H2.)
>
> If Halo’s custom options are unacceptable at the moment to many, than those many surely must understand why we have the multitude of varying attribute weapons and why we can choose to have chosen asymmetrical loadouts or forced symmetrical loadouts.
> It’s not up to those players to demand more options yet remove and/or limit the ones currently in the popularly played playlists.

Oh, I don’t disagree. My point was merely to point out and highlight that there’s a lot more than just what’s listen in the OP.

Halo’s strength has always been it’s flexibility. It’s this that’s given rise to so much community generated content and attributed to it’s longevity. It’s only when things get constrained do we lose creativity.

14

> > > > Step by Step guide on how to cater for everyone:
> > >
> > > I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone.
> >
> > True but at no point does that mean a buffet must be meat and potatoes only :slight_smile:
> >
> > Now how does Halo get made for Halo fans??? The same way it’s always been made, not with the basic attributes of Vanilla but with the options that allow the Vanilla to change into the type of game we want. What we want is not monolithic. At best groups can be catered to and no grand group can ever be greatly pleased (not even CE’s group, hence the changes we saw in H2.)
> >
> > If Halo’s custom options are unacceptable at the moment to many, than those many surely must understand why we have the multitude of varying attribute weapons and why we can choose to have chosen asymmetrical loadouts or forced symmetrical loadouts.
> > It’s not up to those players to demand more options yet remove and/or limit the ones currently in the popularly played playlists.
>
> Oh, I don’t disagree. My point was merely to point out and highlight that there’s a lot more than just what’s listen in the OP.
>
> Halo’s strength has always been it’s flexibility. It’s this that’s given rise to so much community generated content and attributed to it’s longevity. It’s only when things get constrained do we lose creativity.

IE restricting play lists to only competitive friendly or “Casual” friendly. Or no Party Chat, and custom games (options).

15

> Halo 3 already exists. If people still wanted that, they would still play it.

Yeah, I tried that a couple nights ago, ended up searching for a game for about 20 minutes then gave up.

16

> > > > its always the drama that gets the most attention. up to a point to where we can’t see the other side of eacc community that thinks this argument is stupid. and yes while you see that on the Halo community, its also in other communities to.
> > > >
> > > > so in way its like that in all communites.
> > >
> > > I saw an image that best said what drama is.
> > > D**b. R****ds. Asking. More. Attention.
> > >
> > > And yes, I know all communities has their little drama fests, I came from the Halo PC/CE community, we had our dramas, mostly our dramas was about Aim Bot users, not who is better than who like it is in the Xbox community. I swear if it wasn’t for the “No stat flaming” rule, most of the forums would be full of “You’re not a level 50 in Halo 2, so you have no say in what should go into any Halo game/mode”
> > >
> > > But we still have the “It’s all the casual’s fault!” BS, granted I would LOVE to go back and enjoy the anti Aim Bot drama of the PC community, but I’ve gotten tired of it, and tried of waiting for another Halo PC game to be released.
> >
> > I think we shouldn’t be blaming a part of the community for why something is missing in a game.
>
> I agree, we shouldn’t be blaming any group for something that isn’t right, because half the time it’s normally something a group asks for, and then when it isn’t to their liking, they blame another group for it not being right. Personally I don’t mind watching threads grow in page count over <mark>hackers, derankers, or boosters.</mark> But I hate seeing thread after thread of nothing but glorified “He said, She said”, “It’s X groups fault!”, “I’m better than you, here’s why”, “This game sucks because it’s not being catered to X Group”, and “I’m a pro player, but this game is so broken, my K/D is being murdered” Threads.
>
> And here’s something, for the past few years or so, Halo has been catering to one group and one group only, but it’s not the group(s) people think. Microsoft, Bungie, and 343i have been catering to the Xbox group. And yet when ever someone says “Hey, there should be more Halo games on the PC”, they fill up full of people who are unwilling to let any other group be granted into the main catering group.

the hackers and boosters and derankers are legit.

the other ones is just people wanting a game to be easy for them, and now they can’t find a way around it. the visibler rank thing, I don’t mind it being included in the game I never play for rank anyway, I always tell myself.

I always tell myself. “if you worry about rank in a video game, your gonna have a bad time” lol.

but in all seriouseness,

Tip: if your enemy runs away and turns the corner when your shooting him, well go after him, finish him off. if theirs someone from his team guarding him, throw a grenade, or just shoot him up to. (and yes getting killed by them both is something to expect. but don’t let it stop you)

17

> the hackers and boosters and derankers are legit.

Thus why I don’t mind those kind of threads, cause they have meaning, they aren’t a bunch of people whinning because something isn’t going their way.

> the other ones is just people wanting a game to be easy for them, and now they can’t find a way around it.

Easier doesn’t always mean fun, and if people believe the game has to be easier just so they can be better than everyone else, then they’re going to find out the hard way, that life isn’t like that.

> the visibler rank thing, I don’t mind it being included in the game I never play for rank anyway, I always tell myself.
>
> I always tell myself. “if you worry about rank in a video game, your gonna have a bad time” lol.

Agreed, I love listening to people say they’re such&such rank in some video game, makes them feel all warm and squishy inside, and then I point out that I’m a Specialist in the US Army Reserves, working on becoming a Sergeant, in the Boy scouts I’m not only a Eagle Scout, but also a brother hood in the Order of the Arrow. Those gets you places in the real world, a level 50 in Halo 2, means “Doesn’t take work seriously” to everyone in the real world.

> Tip: if your enemy runs away and turns the corner when your shooting him, well go after him, finish him off. if theirs someone from his team guarding him, throw a grenade, or just shoot him up to. (and yes getting killed by them both is something to expect. but don’t let it stop you)

Good tip, too bad people don’t like that, I think they’d be happy playing a game where everyone spawns in an empty map in a circle, they can’t move, but the can aim and shoot each other with the same weapon. It’s easy, and people aren’t running away from them.

18

> Halo 3 already exists. If people still wanted that, they would still play it.

^ That, is quite possibly the stupidest comment I’ve ever seen made on these forums. Nobody wants each Halo game to be a carbon copy of its predecessor but you have to look at the facts.

Halo 3 was huge, it remained on the no 3 spot on Xbox live till Reach came out, 3 YEARS LATER !!!

Halo 4? is 4th on Xbox live 5 months after release.

Why? I believe its because of a lack of good maps, OP weapons, no ranks, too many big maps, terrible custom game options, limited customization (one weapon skin for each gun, one of which you had to buy the Halo 4 console to get $$$), Join In Progress and generally no innovation unlike Halo 2 and 3. Oh and “Spartan Ops WOOOOO Spartan Ops yeah.”

I’m all for copying specific things Cod does well like, grenade danger indicators (great idea), loadouts (if they’re balanced and only in social), ordnance (again only in social). But seriously Join In Progress doesn’t work and needs taking out. But how about copying some of the great things about Cod like RANKS (even cod has ranks now), weapon skins (I am so jealous of those micro-transactions bo2 has) and last but not least DEVELOPER SUPPORT FOR THE COMPETITIVE SCENE.

Instead Halo 4 launched as one big social playlist and we are now seeing the results.

In answer to your original point, no most of us don’t want Halo 3 repackaged, but -Yoink!- just admit it for once Waypoint casual. Halo 3 was awesommmeeeee, ranks, awesome on day 1, awesome maps, is it such a bad idea to copy your past successes?

If they re-released Halo 2 or 3 tomorrow with limited sprint and Halo 4 graphics I know what I’d be playing tomorrow!!!

Sorry but its true and its what the majority think.