Why does 343 have such a huge bias?

Community General Discussion
1

343i seems to have a pretty large bias against Sangheili when it comes to the Halo Universe in general.

First it showed when they made Sangheili unplayable in Halo 4, but it goes deeper than that.

The way they have been depicting Sangheili, be it in game, during cutscenes, or even in the live action material, has them as big, slow, and relatively unskilled.

Just look at this scene: HALO 4 Spartan Ops | "Episode 6" Full Cinematic (2013) [EN] | HD - YouTube

Sangheili Aristocrats (ones that can use a sword) are supposed to train in Swordplay since the moment they can stand. As with ALL young Sangheili training, this training is deadly, so that those without skill do not survive and only those skilled enough can wield a blade.

And yet they act like bumbling buffoons, can hardly manage to fend off a RECRUIT Spartan IV (who has never held an energy sword before I might add), and otherwise completely humiliate themselves.

Another example? (Spoiler alert) a Sangheili Zealot, considered to be some of the most skilled, experienced, best warriors of the Sangheili race, fights Agent Locke in episode 1 of Halo Nightfall. In it, Locke wasn’t even a Spartan IV, he was a regular ONI Agent. The Zealot couldn’t even touch Locke, despite numerous canonical examples saying Sangheili can match a Spartan-II in terms of strength and speed. Realistically, the Zealot should have torn through Locke like a bulldozer through plasticard! But plot demanded he live, so instead the Zealot barely seemed to understand how to swing a sword, gave up after a brief fight, ran away, and then when ambushed could do nothing but stand there while Locke jumped on his head and fired at him several times in the face until the shields broke.

Sangheili are meant to be Strong, Agile, highly skilled warriors. If they aren’t skilled enough to fight properly they generally die in the training. Halo 2 Annaversary’s cutscenes and Terminal videos captured this perfectly. They were shown as highly skilled and cunning warriors and are a thing to be respected.

So why is everything else showing them as just being big, slow, and stupid?

2

Well The Kilo Five trilogy and Broken Circle brought a lot of attention to the elites.

But for Halo 4 Spartan Ops and nightfall, Yes 343 kinda dropped the ball with the Huge scary lizards theme

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> 2533274866604758;2:
> Well The Kilo Five trilogy and Broken Circle brought a lot of attention to the elites.
>
> But for Halo 4 Spartan Ops and nightfall, Yes 343 kinda dropped the ball with the Huge scary lizards theme

After just finishing Broken circle damn do I wanna know more about the elites. Good thing I just got all Kilo 5 books.

As for the OP,I completely agree with you. I never really thought of it as deep as you did but now that I know that there does seem to be something wrong with how elites have been portrayed as of late.

4

To be honest, I’m hopeful about Halo 5, as the arbiter is already seemingly playing an important and respected role.

5

Because they don’t share the same concern for the Halo franchise as Bungie has.

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> 2533274820541653;5:
> Because they don’t share the same concern for the Halo franchise as Bungie has.

Right. There are several ways they’ve shown that they care more.

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> 2533274820541653;5:
> Because they don’t share the same concern for the Halo franchise as Bungie has.

Right. There are several ways they’ve shown that they care more.

8

The main writers for the Halo series now seem to think Sangheili are big stupid generic space monster instead of the proud badass creatures that Joe Staten and Bungie set with the original trilogy. Not trying to create developer rivalry here but Bungie handled far better. Even in games like ODST & Reach which had no Covenant story interaction still had traces of the culture there. Hopefully 343 can turn it around with the recent focus on good ol’ arby.

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> 2533274907934539;6:
> > 2533274820541653;5:
> > Because they don’t share the same concern for the Halo franchise as Bungie has.
>
>
> Right. There are several ways they’ve shown that they care more.

wasn’t any purpose responding.

are you literally gonna respond to a guy like that.

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> 2533274802801111;1:
> So why is everything else showing them as just being big, slow, and stupid?

  1. That isn’t really maintained by the Halo 2 anniversary cinematic or terminals. [which is only a minor point]2. [the big one] Its part of the narrative plot device: when someone needs to die (such as the bad guys) in a fight circumstances will rearrange themselves to make that happen. Never mind the logic of the scene as established by previous plot or backstory, its got to happen so it happens. That’s story telling (and a bias exists only as far as the elites have tended to fill the role of “things that die so the hero can move on”.)
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> 2533274797771187;10:
> > 2533274802801111;1:
> > So why is everything else showing them as just being big, slow, and stupid?
>
>
>
> Never mind the logic of the scene as established by previous plot or backstory, its got to happen so it happens. That’s story telling (and a bias exists only as far as the elites have tended to fill the role of “things that die so the hero can move on”.)

No , that’s bad story telling.

The Flash is one of the fastest men alive. That is canonical fact in the DC universe. You don’t see Batman being able to hit him with a batarang, because Flash would be too fast for that to hit him. The same logic applies here.

The Sangheili are being depicted as the “Big slow stupid poorly trained monster” enemy to fight. They’re supposed to be a big, agile, cunning, expertly trained enemy to fight. That is established canonical fact.

The “big slow stupid” enemy are Jiralhanae, who rely more on their sheer toughness to get the job done. If 343 wants us to fight a big dumb damage sponge have us fight Brutes.

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> 2533274802801111;1:
>

> 343i seems to have a pretty large bias against Sangheili when it comes to the Halo Universe in general.
>
> First it showed when they made Sangheili unplayable in Halo 4, but it goes deeper than that.

And 343I follows what the community wants: People have been calling for the Elites removal since Halo 2 and the first game you can’t play as them it is some huge uproar. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

> Sangheili Zealot

Covenant Zealot=/= Post-Covenant Zealot

> The “big slow stupid” enemy are Jiralhanae, who rely more on their sheer toughness to get the job done. If 343 wants us to fight a big dumb damage sponge have us fight Brutes.

Canonically that isn’t even true either.

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> 2533274820541653;5:
> Because they don’t share the same concern for the Halo franchise as Bungie has.

Yes, lets overlook Bungie’s compassion towards the Elites. For instance, giving us a few armors in comparison to the Spartans and then giving them complete customization in Reach while we get 7-10 complete armor sets.

Please be honest when you are talking about stuff like this and not make it seem as if Bungie was the Holy Grail. Because there were far more complaints with them running things than 343I. Majority of 343I’s complaints are objectively trivial. I just don’t understand how people can be perfectly fine with bungie’s flaws then criticizes 343I for following up.

14

Multi-quotes are difficult on mobile.

> 2533274835488730;12:
> > 343i seems to have a pretty large bias against Sangheili when it comes to the Halo Universe in general.
> >
> > First it showed when they made Sangheili unplayable in Halo 4, but it goes deeper than that.
>
>
>
>
> And 343I follows what the community wants: People have been calling for the Elites removal since Halo 2 and the first game you can’t play as them it is some huge uproar. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

I’m hardly a hypocrite considering I was never among them. You also seem to be implying that this “call” was even prominent in the community after Halo 3. The only people that wanted Sangheili removed by that point were tryhards that hated fighting them in SWAT, and the only people that wanted them removed in the beginning didn’t want their precious “Humanity ~Blam!~ yeah!” Game to have aliens with personality.

They got the Arbiter levels removed from Halo 3 and after that not so much as a pipe from them since.

> 2533274835488730;12:
> > 2533274835488730;12:
> > > Sangheili Zealot
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Covenant Zealot=/= Post-Covenant Zealot

Then don’t call them Zealots. The Zealot rank has enough confusion as is concerning it can hold several different titles and certain ones contradict others.

It’s not like all of the previous, hyper-skilled Covenant Zealots who had personally slain thousands of foes just randomly dropped dead after Halo 3.

> 2533274835488730;12:
> > The “big slow stupid” enemy are Jiralhanae, who rely more on their sheer toughness to get the job done. If 343 wants us to fight a big dumb damage sponge have us fight Brutes.
>
>
>
>
> Canonically that isn’t even true either.

Perhaps not canonically, but at the very least in terms of gameplay that’s how they’ve been depicted in every incarnation, with varying degrees depending on the timeline.

15

> 2533274835488730;13:
> > 2533274820541653;5:
> >
>
>
> Yes, lets overlook Bungie’s compassion towards the Elites. For instance, giving us a few armors in comparison to the Spartans and then giving them complete customization in Reach while we get 7-10 complete armor sets.
>
> Please be honest when you are talking about stuff like this and not make it seem as if Bungie was the Holy Grail. Because there were far more complaints with them running things than 343I. Majority of 343I’s complaints are objectively trivial. I just don’t understand how people can be perfectly fine with bungie’s flaws then criticizes 343I for following up.

Exactly this. While Bungie still included Elites in MM from 2 onwards, they really didn’t make them all that special or as appealing to customize as Spartans. Plus, Bungie’s design decisions have really been degrading since Reach IMO.